Metal Gear Solid - Tactical Megathread Action VIII - We Are Diamond Dogs! - Games

Well, if the assassination and Snatcher missions were anything to go by in GZ, they can make it possible to kill targets as a requirement with no detriment to your score. For all we know, there may be occasions in the plot (like a boss fight) that requires or encourages a player to go gung-ho. And in terms of pacifism, Big Boss doesn't really have an obligation anymore to be pacifistic. Stealing important info, recruiting enemy soldiers or commanders, and disabling crucial assets may be ways of dealing revenge without killing anyone, but everything seems to imply that when he gets angry and shit goes wrong, he's going to start gunning people down right then and there.

[QUOTE=archangel125;46956134]Quick question - Going by other games in the MGS franchise (Only having played 3, and watched a full playthrough, including cutscenes, of 4) has Big Boss done things that make him genuinely look like a monster, or has he just been the sort of villain with a political agenda that you tend to find in these games? Because whatever the Phantom Pain will be, if it's the latter rather than the former, it may be that we come to understand BB's descent in a more sympathetic light. In the end, both Snake and Zero tried to bring about a vision of the world that they felt best reflected that of someone they had both admired and loved, The Boss. To see things through his eyes may make a difference. [editline]17th January 2015[/editline] I mean, the trailers look pretty damning, but they still lack context, and maybe that'll be important.[/QUOTE] He used to just be a military genius with a crazy war agenda who wanted to stop being a pawn of the US, but Phantom Pain is depicting him as a complete lunatic who got tricked by a Skeleton Man dressed as a cowboy. It's not like anything Big Boss does really matters considering he just ends up going back to the United States again. They really should've just stuck to him being the military genius type because I can't really sympathize with the guy in MGS4 when he's gone on to create four fucking PMCs and has killed children.

[QUOTE=tempunary;46956657]He used to just be a military genius with a crazy war agenda who wanted to stop being a pawn of the US, but Phantom Pain is depicting him as a complete lunatic who got tricked by a Skeleton Man dressed as a cowboy. It's not like anything Big Boss does really matters considering he just ends up going back to the United States again.[/QUOTE] I still dont understand how that can possibly happen after all the shit that's happened in PW, GZ and will presumably happen in Phantom Pain.

[QUOTE=mastermaul;46951987][sp]You can supercheese that fight by hiding prone in the concrete alcove at one end of the area and shooting him with the Nagant/SVD if I remember correctly.[/sp][/QUOTE] Just went and tried this out, thanks! Worked really well, felt a bit guilty about cheesing it that hard though :v:

[QUOTE=RikohZX;46956642]Well, if the assassination and Snatcher missions were anything to go by in GZ, they can make it possible to kill targets as a requirement with no detriment to your score. For all we know, there may be occasions in the plot (like a boss fight) that requires or encourages a player to go gung-ho. And in terms of pacifism, Big Boss doesn't really have an obligation anymore to be pacifistic. Stealing important info, recruiting enemy soldiers or commanders, and disabling crucial assets may be ways of dealing revenge without killing anyone, but everything seems to imply that when he gets angry and shit goes wrong, he's going to start gunning people down right then and there.[/QUOTE] what i'm getting at though is that he's always that angry and crazy and the pacifism is just a veneer. it seemed like you were implying the pacifist route was out of bb's sense of decency so it didn't make sense for him to go nuts in the cutscenes, so i'm just saying he could spare his enemies and still totally be a super crazy person who shoots kids and tortures people when he's angry

I'm just going to put this out there. Big Boss is a sociopath. He doesn't feel bad about the soldiers he's killed one bit. Then you look at Solid Snake, who seriously does, to the point where he's become a depressing trainwreck of a man with 2 cases of PTSD by MGS1. You can assume that Big Boss killed people in MGS3. If he didn't, the "boss fight" with The Sorrow is entirely pointless. He's killed lots of people, and the only one he acknowledges or cares about is The Boss. He has no remorse at all. He's a sociopath, and that seriously contributes to how easily he can, and will become a villain.

[QUOTE=elowin;46956686]I still dont understand how that can possibly happen after all the shit that's happened in PW, GZ and will presumably happen in Phantom Pain.[/QUOTE] Because the US is run by the patriots and zero is the number two member of the big boss apreciation team(with number one being Ocelot, of course), and he REALLY wants big boss to go back to their side, so large leader probably just pretends that he's cool with him again while still doing his thing

And yet he was having fun with young Ocelot

[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;46957085]I'm just going to put this out there. Big Boss is a sociopath. He doesn't feel bad about the soldiers he's killed one bit. Then you look at Solid Snake, who seriously does, to the point where he's become a depressing trainwreck of a man with 2 cases of PTSD by MGS1. You can assume that Big Boss killed people in MGS3. If he didn't, the "boss fight" with The Sorrow is entirely pointless. He's killed lots of people, and the only one he acknowledges or cares about is The Boss. He has no remorse at all. He's a sociopath, and that seriously contributes to how easily he can, and will become a villain.[/QUOTE] umm that scene WAS big boss' guilt

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;46957419]umm that scene WAS big boss' guilt[/QUOTE] That scene was The Sorrow chastising Big Boss for killing without remorse. Then afterwards he shrugs it off and makes it his business to kill people for the rest of his life, and tries to create an endless cycle of killing through war.

[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;46957085]I'm just going to put this out there. Big Boss is a sociopath. He doesn't feel bad about the soldiers he's killed one bit. Then you look at Solid Snake, who seriously does, to the point where he's become a depressing trainwreck of a man with 2 cases of PTSD by MGS1. You can assume that Big Boss killed people in MGS3. If he didn't, the "boss fight" with The Sorrow is entirely pointless. He's killed lots of people, and the only one he acknowledges or cares about is The Boss. He has no remorse at all. He's a sociopath, and that seriously contributes to how easily he can, and will become a villain.[/QUOTE] He talks about "nightmares" in MG2 and goes on to say the highs of combat are never enough. This doesn't suggest a lack of remorse to me, but more suggests he is forever trapped in a cycle of murdering to get more highs, and suffering more nightmares from the murdering. The nightmares to me suggest some semblance of empathy, but he must have some lack of empathy in the first place to consider murder in the first place.

I just ordered the Legacy Collection! I can finally play Metal Gear Solid 1! :dance:

I don't think he's a sociopath, per se. Just naive until minutes before his death, in believing that war is the only solution to anything. I believe in MGS3, MGS4, MGS:PW, etc he frequently says that fighting is 'all he understands', or other characters say it of him.

Playing as a pacifist could be BB's way of toying with Cipher and showing him that he doesn't have to kill them to get what he wants. Like in The Missing Link for DXHR, if you don't kill anyone, the second in command says to the main boss that you haven't been killing anyone so you're not much of a threat but then the boss scolds him and says "that means he's resourceful and an even bigger threat" or something like that

The thing with Big Boss is that he was taught by The Boss that his life was only meant to follow orders and do what he must for his country, like The Boss, he saw the battlefield as being his only reason to live And then The Boss went to space and saw that the earth didn't really have borders and all that jazz, and that fighting for a country was pointless, which was mirrored when she just gave up on fighting, twice(as herself and as [sp]an AI[/sp]) BB couldn't see things the same way she did since he didn't have that experience so he kept on doing the only thing he knew, fight What he did learn from The Boss after her death is that fighting for a country or an ideology is pointless, with led to the creation of MSF And then [sp]The Boss AI gave up on fighting and killed herself to save the world[/sp] and BB, still unable to understand why she'd go against the only thing he understood as a life, became completely disconnected from everything he used to believe, so at this point all he had was MSF And then GZ happened and he actually lost everything We don't know exactly what happens on TPP yet, but it's safe to say that looking for revenge, Big Boss became more and more entrenched in his ideologies and his idea that the world can only be united trough war He's not really a sociopath, maybe he's a bit naive for believing so hard in The Boss' ideologies even after she stopped believing in it herself, but what he ends up turning into is mostly because of a series of tragic circumstances

That bit in the trailer where he supposedly stabs a kid? I think the fact that they showed the knife coming down, but not onto what was important. Maybe there's a twist. [editline]18th January 2015[/editline] When you think about it, bb has pretty much been shit on by everyone and everything his whole life, and betrayed by almost everyone he trusted, even worse than Solid Snake. His soldiers always looked up to him, but how many people could he let himself see as friends?

[QUOTE=archangel125;46958551]That bit in the trailer where he supposedly stabs a kid? I think the fact that they showed the knife coming down, but not onto what was important. Maybe there's a twist. [editline]18th January 2015[/editline] When you think about it, bb has pretty much been shit on by everyone and everything his whole life, and betrayed by almost everyone he trusted, even worse than Solid Snake. His soldiers always looked up to him, but how many people could he let himself see as friends?[/QUOTE] Technically even Kaz has gone behind his back, and is definitely the one spearheading the funding and organization of a large amount of their operations in the name of vengeance. Paz, someone Big Boss thought he was getting close to, was a spy for Cipher the entire time and he was even delicate with her despite this, showing some amount of empathy for her. He's acquired various MSF members before Mother Base was destroyed, but we don't know how many of them will return while Huey is a prime suspect for betrayal to let XOF get in so thoroughly. Practically the only people who haven't done something that Big Boss wouldn't agree with or backstabbed him in some way, are missing, potentially dead, or Ocelot, and even the latter was a former enemy by circumstance before the Patriots and before Big Boss understood what The Boss meant by how a friend could become a foe and likewise at any time.

[QUOTE=Broguts;46957735]He talks about "nightmares" in MG2 and goes on to say the highs of combat are never enough. This doesn't suggest a lack of remorse to me, but more suggests he is forever trapped in a cycle of murdering to get more highs, and suffering more nightmares from the murdering. The nightmares to me suggest some semblance of empathy, but he must have some lack of empathy in the first place to consider murder in the first place.[/QUOTE] That was also 25 years ago, before most of the canon was established. He might feel bad by MG2, yeah, but I'm really talking about Big Boss during the 3/PW era.

Big Boss has a strong disposition to seeing the world in a narrow minded, and bleak view. That's why himself and 2/3 of his clones end up being something considerably evil. Solid Snake is the only version of Big Boss that has the sociopathic parts cut out because of the super baby method and the recessive genes, making Solid Snake the hero of the overarching story. Big Boss is trying to fight back against Zero and be heroic, but the way he goes about it makes his cause and the Patriots'/Cipher's cause become two sides of the same coin. They both misinterpret the virtues taught by the Boss and that ultimately is what caused their downfall.Though I think it's arguable that Snake is doing the right thing to try and stop Zero from creating the Patriots.

Man, getting the S rank on Renegade Threat and Anti-Air will be the end of me. After that I'll have to S rank the Deja/Jamais Vu missions but they seemed alright. Just be quick.

[QUOTE=Marden;46960002]Man, getting the S rank on Renegade Threat and Anti-Air will be the end of me. After that I'll have to S rank the Deja/Jamais Vu missions but they seemed alright. Just be quick.[/QUOTE] S Ranking anti air is really easy -First, tranquilize the 8 dudes that are close to the first AA(one standing right next to it, one smoking by the boxes in the back, one dude behind that fence, three dudes around the building on the right, two other close to the truck on the road to the right), remember to move the one dude in the AA away from it -Now enter the anti air and destroy the two other visible AA(one is blocked by a truck, but if you shoot straight at the marker the truck will explode and expose the AA) -Now place C4 on the one AA you were using and go unlock the gate behind you -Blow up the C4 and plant the rest on the road by the gate(on a spot visible from the hill) -Call for extraction on the LZ behind you -Hide on the hill, lying on the floor, and wait for the APC to reach the C4 and blow them all up -Crawl towards the LZ, the chopper should arrive right as you get there The key here is being quick and hiding properly after you blow up the last AA If you do it right and quickly, you should have no alerts and no kills, granting you an S Rank

[QUOTE=Fosax;46960245]S Ranking anti air is really easy -First, tranquilize the 8 dudes that are close to the first AA(one standing right next to it, one smoking by the boxes in the back, one dude behind that fence, three dudes around the building on the right, two other close to the truck on the road to the right), remember to move the one dude in the AA away from it -Now enter the anti air and destroy the two other visible AA(one is blocked by a truck, but if you shoot straight at the marker the truck will explode and expose the AA) -Now place C4 on the one AA you were using and go unlock the gate behind you -Blow up the C4 and plant the rest on the road by the gate(on a spot visible from the hill) -Call for extraction on the LZ behind you -Hide on the hill, lying on the floor, and wait for the APC to reach the C4 and blow them all up -Crawl towards the LZ, the chopper should arrive right as you get there The key here is being quick and hiding properly after you blow up the last AA If you do it right and quickly, you should have no alerts and no kills, granting you an S Rank[/QUOTE] it can be easier. -go put c4 on the road -use rocket launcher from the spawn cliff on all AA -call morpho -detonate c4 and escape

[QUOTE=Akuma_lektro;46960281]it can be easier. -go put c4 on the road -use rocket launcher from the spawn cliff on all AA -call morpho -detonate c4 and escape[/QUOTE] The rocket launcher isn't unlocked from the get-go though

[QUOTE=Akuma_lektro;46960281]it can be easier. -go put c4 on the road -use rocket launcher from the spawn cliff on all AA -call morpho -detonate c4 and escape[/QUOTE] You can even escape a little prior to detonating the C4. To get rockets, just beat it once reasonably well. You can get caught and kill people and still do alright.

[QUOTE=Jarokwa;46960401]So, my first experience with stealth stuff was Splinter Cell(still one of my favourite franchises despite one fuck-up game), and my first Metal Gear game was Revengeance, my first proper Solid experience was Ground Zeroes and I had a blast, most likely going to buy Phantom Pain. I have a PS2 collecting dust in my room, should I get myself MGS1-3? There seem to be multiple 2's and 3's but I guess its just like expansion packs or something?[/QUOTE] Get MGS1, MGS2: Substance, and MGS3: Subsistence

[QUOTE=Jarokwa;46960401]So, my first experience with stealth stuff was Splinter Cell(still one of my favourite franchises despite one fuck-up game), and my first Metal Gear game was Revengeance, my first proper Solid experience was Ground Zeroes and I had a blast, most likely going to buy Phantom Pain. I have a PS2 collecting dust in my room, should I get myself MGS1-3? There seem to be multiple 2's and 3's but I guess its just like expansion packs or something?[/QUOTE] MGS3 Subsistence gives a nicer camera to the game, and that alone is worth it. MGS2 Substance has some changes (neat VR missions, mostly), but I don't think it was worth it.

[QUOTE=Jarokwa;46960401]So, my first experience with stealth stuff was Splinter Cell(still one of my favourite franchises despite one fuck-up game), and my first Metal Gear game was Revengeance, my first proper Solid experience was Ground Zeroes and I had a blast, most likely going to buy Phantom Pain. I have a PS2 collecting dust in my room, should I get myself MGS1-3? There seem to be multiple 2's and 3's but I guess its just like expansion packs or something?[/QUOTE] Yes get them and play them in order of 1-3. Not just so you can follow the story but the sequels always add new features so if you play out of order, you're going to be thinking "man I wish I could X" I don't know what 2's extra edition does but Subsistence for MGS3 gives the game an improved camera so it plays like a 3rd person over the shoulder shooter

MGS2:Substance didn't add anything to the core game afaik, but it adds tons of other content in the form of VR missions and Snake Tales (and a skateboarding minigame on PS2).

[QUOTE=archangel125;46958551]That bit in the trailer where he supposedly stabs a kid? I think the fact that they showed the knife coming down, but not onto what was important. Maybe there's a twist. [/QUOTE] Considering the 99.999999% likelihood of that being a young Liquid Snake, i doubt he actually stabs him.

[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;46960558]Get MGS1, MGS2: Substance, and MGS3: Subsistence[/QUOTE] AFAIK he'd be better off running MGS1 on an emulator since halfway through the game requires you to swap discs and that doesn't work on the fat PS2s. Unless he's got one of the slim models, that is.