[QUOTE=brenz;48984602]You're disgusted at OVERKILL for following orders?[/QUOTE]
"I'm just following orders" is a pretty shite excuse.
[QUOTE=PaperMartin;48984613]Maybe they got too ambitious but rhat doesn't explain why almir said so much bullshit in the AMA[/QUOTE]
Yeah it does. You know why?
If they came out and said this publicly; that Starbreeze got really over their heads?
All the investors and stocks they got would PLUMMET. Investors don't really like the prospect of a company failing and their investments going to shit due to it, so they pull out early to make sure they don't take a hit to their pockets.
It's messy. It's a messy situation, probably REALLY bad internally, maybe not. But I know for a fact it is NOT good.
Almir, like any other PR person, has to balance their answers and statements carefully. They not only have to represent the company, please the community, but also avoid scaring investors.
The statement "we're making money as intended" looks good to an investor; it means their investment isn't going to lose out on anything.
If he said "Starbreeze done fucked up son"? A lot of money would be lost, then and there.
It's not greediness; it's business. It's messy and not very pleasant.
Please, please, [b]PLEASE[/b] spread info around of their financial situation and let people make their decisions based on that. All I can do is spread the facts around.
[QUOTE=ElusiveBadger;48984615]"I'm just following orders" is a pretty shite excuse.[/QUOTE]
It's either following orders or losing your job.
[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/paydaytheheist/comments/3q973r/starbreeze_has_overkill_by_the_balls_so_to_say/"]Posted Dougley's words on the Payday Subreddit[/URL]
Maybe it won't get downvoted to hell.
Yeah but even when thinking about the investors, that's not really smart to say "you guys seem to be loving it" to people that hated the MTs since the beggining.
Anyway,I guess that mean no more free content till hype train 2/crimefest 2016
Starbreeze and Overkill are pretty close to being the same entity. Pretty sure the CEO of Starbreeze was the former Overkill CEO.
Yeah, whoopie! They're funding all this cool shit. StarVR! John Wick point-and-click! Walking Dead whatsitfucks!
[B]Big.[/B] [I]Fuckin'.[/I] [U]Whoop.[/U]
The proper recourse for making back the money to properly fund this isn't to milk out every single penny you can manage from the ONLY IP that you have worth a fucking hoot. It's entirely their fault for getting too ambitious too quick, and now we're the ones to suffer. I'm not keen on suffering because some CEO mingebag got a hard dick and decided to try and get his pubes in every little fucking market, and now he doesn't have the cash to pay the 75 extra twats he hired to make these projects. They should've approached it one at a time as common sense would bloody well dictate. Sure, keep making shit for Payday 2. I'd love some more meaningful content! Put some of your other guys on another IP, so they can get another money-maker out there.
Right now all they're doing is butchering the damned milk cow.
[QUOTE=kyle877;48984664]Starbreeze and Overkill are pretty closet to being the same entity. Pretty sure the CEO of Starbreeze was the former Overkill CEO.
Yeah, whoopie! They're funding all this cool shit. StarVR! John Wick point-and-click! Walking Dead whatsitfucks!
[B]Big.[/B] [I]Fuckin'.[/I] [U]Whoop.[/U]
The proper recourse for making back the money to properly fund this isn't to milk out every single penny you can manage from the ONLY IP that you have worth a fucking hoot. It's entirely their fault for getting too ambitious too quick, and now we're the ones to suffer. I'm not keen on suffering because some CEO mingebag got a hard dick and decided to try and get his pubes in every little fucking market, and now he doesn't have the cash to pay the 75 extra twats he hired to make these projects. They should've approached it one at a time as common sense would bloody well dictate. Sure, keep making shit for Payday 2. I'd love some more meaningful content! Put some of your other guys on another IP, so they can get another money-maker out there.
Right now all they're doing is butchering the damned milk cow.[/QUOTE]
Sadly, none of their other IP's are out right now. Some are next year, some are further away, and PD2 is popular. It's a BAD situation.
It's a pretty depressing thing though. They're using the success of Payday 2 to fuel their other projects but in return, Payday suffers for it. And it sucks that the devs can't be transparent on this. I bet they would feel much better if they could tell people that they are just following orders. With that being said, I'm still not going to support their DLC or MTs. They had a chance to give the community tons of awesome stuff, stuff that could have made up for their shift to microtransactions, however, in my opinion, they dropped the ball on the rewards.
[QUOTE=Dougley;48984669]Sadly, none of their other IP's are out right now. Some are next year, some are further away, and PD2 is popular. It's a BAD situation.[/QUOTE]
And they have only themselves to blame. I'd be fucking delighted if they just came out and said "Yeah, we fucked up." Instead they've got the gall to tell the 'vocal minority' that made up a large majority of their community "You guys are wrong :^)."
Why can't I get Hoxton's voice out of my head?
[QUOTE=ElusiveBadger;48984615]"I'm just following orders" is a pretty shite excuse.[/QUOTE]
I think its fair to choose your career over maintaining a superficial moral high horse in the business world.
It's pretty much a matter of money vs fame
And 90% of the time, money wins
To iterate on my earlier comments:
While I did say "hate starbreeze", hate that they put themselves into a bad financial situation. Not the people themselves; they're good people, and so is everyone at OVK.
If things DO go bad (I HOPE THEY DON'T), I want to at least see everyone from there have good chances at a job again, and not be viewed as "stemmed from a greedy developer."
[QUOTE=Dougley;48984693]To iterate on my earlier comments:
While I did say "hate starbreeze", hate that they put themselves into a bad financial situation. Not the people themselves; they're good people, and so is everyone at OVK.
If things DO go bad (I HOPE THEY DON'T), I want to at least see everyone from there have good chances at a job again, and not be viewed as "stemmed from a greedy developer."[/QUOTE]
I hate the whole ordeal in the first place. That this was even a thing just drives me mad. I don't hate any of the individuals that work in these companies, even if some of them may have made poor choices in this matter.
Except Almir. Fuck Almir.
It's a fucked up situation, yeah. Knowing this, there's no reason to complain about the Black Market update, we're not changing their minds because the decision wasn't theirs to make. Again, this doesn't excuse the poor quality rewards from Crimefest 2015 but it does make me a bit sorry for them. Hopefully one of their projects drops soon so maybe Payday will get some breathing room.
Nothing I stated about Starbreeze is untrue, any investor that looks at the data presented will see the fatal flaw I did. If I was wrong, Starbreeze will come out and say "no, that's not true, we can prove it." If I can see what I saw, so can an investor. And investors are jumpy as fuck, so they'll either lid this, or let it ride over since they can't lie financially.
You can go look at Starbreeze's website, too. The only product out current-gen is PD2. It's the only thing giving them stable profit for ALL THOSE OTHER WORK IN PROGRESS GAMES. And StarVR too!
[QUOTE=Dougley;48984726]Nothing I stated about Starbreeze is untrue, any investor that looks at the data presented will see the fatal flaw I did. If I was wrong, Starbreeze will come out and say "no, that's not true, we can prove it." If I can see what I saw, so can an investor. And investors are jumpy as fuck, so they'll either lid this, or let it ride over since they can't lie financially.
You can go look at Starbreeze's website, too. The only product out current-gen is PD2. It's the only thing giving them stable profit for ALL THOSE OTHER WORK IN PROGRESS GAMES. And StarVR too![/QUOTE]
They're self-made victims. The simple solution out of this would be to can, atleast temporarily, some of the in-house stuff until you have time to get your company profit-stable again. This could've all been avoided if they'd approached their projects one at a time instead of turning it into a clusterfuck.
Payday 2 becomes profitable? Hire people to keep working on it post-release and set up a new team to work on a new thing. I'm no genius accountant, but I've got enough common sense to know that living beyond your means and over-extending your budget is not a good way to go.
Mind telling me what's wrong with Swedish K aside from low ammo count and high recoil?
[QUOTE=ElusiveBadger;48984576]Yeah, no. I'm still disgusted with Overkill.[/QUOTE]
Can't say I'm disgusted with Overkill, those guys are closer to victims than anything. That being said, thanks to Starbreeze, the game is still riddled with awful DLC and what not, turning me off.
[QUOTE=Dougley;48984545]I posted this in the news node in a PD2 newsblot, but I think you guys wanna hear it AGAIN too.
They (OVERKILL) actually have a really funny business cycle with Starbreeze.
Short version since I don't want to type it out again.:
Starbreeze AB is funding about 7 other games for various studios, has a bunch of license deals (merchandise, John Wick, music and likenesses), poured millions into StarVR (which does sound impressive), bought a BRAND NEW GAME ENGINE (Valhalla) with a few cold millions, and are also paying the salaries for all the people working on these things, as well as their own personal salaries etc. Not to mention benefits like healthcare and insurance.
Where is all that money coming from..?
PAYDAY 2. Solely. It's literally the ONLY product under Starbreeze right now making them consistent cash! [b]THE. ONLY. THING.[/b] From a business standpoint, let's use the legal term to describe it, which it is "[i][b]fucking insane.[/b][/i]"
There are, of course, stocks and investors, but PAYDAY 2 is the only [i]product[/i] sporting them funds and investors etc.
OVERKILL simply got the order from Starbreeze to find a way to make more steady cash out of PD2, since DLC's stopped selling as well (most people had them and the leftovers waited for sales, free keys, or plain didn't buy them).
So, in general; don't hate OVERKILL. Hate Starbreeze for getting too ambitious and putting insane amounts of pressure on a single title.
I'd like to request EVERYONE to spread this info around ^^^ so that people know the situation behind it. I don't care much for micros either, but I know the guys at OVK, and they don't deserve all this flak. The only people that need to be pressured upon is Starbreeze.[/QUOTE]
I don't know how true that all is, but I don't buy it yet unless you've got some kind of source for me where an employee states this is how Starbreeze and Overkill work. Frankly any time Overkill's done something bad someone will jump to their defense by saying it's Starbreeze or 505's fault. I'm very hesitant to believe that Overkill is so helpless. Not to mention they're, as I understand it, owned by the same dude anyway. So it sounds like to me that it's a problem of their own making. If they spent like idiots and we have to suffer for it, I'm not exactly going to be shedding many tears for them.
Not to mention Ulf and Viklund have yet to say a word about any of that as far as I'm aware, and they don't even work there anymore and probably could say all they wanted about it. I'll believe it when I hear it from them.
Starbreeze [I]is[/I] Overkill you fucking mongs
[QUOTE=riki2cool;48984764]Starbreeze [I]is[/I] Overkill you fucking mongs[/QUOTE]
Overkill is a Starbreeze [i]studio.[/i] Whether Bo runs it or not, he's still the boss in either scenario.
Doesn't change the fact of the matter, though. Starbreeze spent too much and are trying to hold it together. I know how I view them, I just want people to know the facts and base how they proceed with OVK/Starbreeze on it.
Whether is with hope, or if people are really done, that's their decisions to make.
but nah, poor poor overkill. How can you expect an indie company to survive in such harsh conditions?
[QUOTE=Dougley;48984768]Overkill is a Starbreeze [i]studio.[/i] Whether Bo runs it or not, he's still the boss in either scenario.
Doesn't change the fact of the matter, though. Starbreeze spent too much and are trying to hold it together. I know how I view them, I just want people to know the facts and base how they proceed with OVK/Starbreeze on it.
Whether is with hope, or if people are really done, that's their decisions to make.[/QUOTE]
Okay but why would you know any of this
like what makes this not just conjecture
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48984606]They were just following orders.[/QUOTE]
So did Starbreeze ordered them to make an event where the community is building hype for stupid masks and bug fixes?
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;48984775]Okay but why would you know any of this
like what makes this not just conjecture[/QUOTE]
Go view Starbreeze's site. The only current-gen game out that's making them money is PD2. They have [i]seven other WIP games listed on their site, from other studios/developers.[/i] They also invested millions into Valhalla and StarVR.
They got on the NASDAQ [i]with PD2 alone.[/i] They have a lot of investors, so they made a lot of investments.
And now they're sweating it. You don't keep up a constant supply of income off a single title alone without a lot of effort, and DLC's stopped cutting it entirely. They had to do something.
Their financials look good, but it probably only stays like that for a short time before it empties out faster than a bucket in a drought. You don't fund all these employees, games, companies, SOFTWARE, and licensing deals out of nothing.
What I said will DEFINITELY scare an investor away, though. If my data-snooping is WRONG, then someone at OVK/Starbreeze will come out and prove me wrong. If they don't, I was right, and they're letting it smooth over as much as they can.
Maybe I am wrong. But this is just what I've seen, and I don't see another way to interpret the data that isn't off-the-wall nuts. I'm not trying to sway your opinion and make you spend money on the game again or anything, I just want to point out what I found and let people decide themselves.
[QUOTE=Dougley;48984789]Go view Starbreeze's site. The only current-gen game out that's making them money is PD2. They have [i]seven other WIP games listed on their site, from other studios/developers.[/i] They also invested millions into Valhalla and StarVR.
They got on the NASDAQ [i]with PD2 alone.[/i] They have a lot of investors, so they made a lot of investments.
And now they're sweating it. You don't keep up a constant supply of income off a single title alone without a lot of effort, and DLC's stopped cutting it entirely. They had to do something.
Their financials look good, but it probably only stays like that for a short time before it empties out faster than a bucket in a drought. You don't fund all these employees, games, companies, SOFTWARE, and licensing deals out of nothing.
What I said will DEFINITELY scare an investor away, though. If my data-snooping is WRONG, then someone at OVK/Starbreeze will come out and prove me wrong. If they don't, I was right, and they're letting it smooth over as much as they can.[/QUOTE]
Right, so I can see where you're getting 'Starbreeze is spending way too much fucking money' from. But everything else seems like conjecture to me. We don't know how married Starbreeze and Overkill are, we don't know if Starbreeze is one to 'give orders', and we have no records of any orders being given at all. As far as we know, Overkill and Starbreeze are equally possibly completely separate entities or pretty much the same. And if it is true that Overkill has a gun to their head, nobody who's left Overkill has said so and nobody at Overkill has let so much as a peep out to suggest they're anything but happily compliant with what they're doing. Of course we'd like to think that they're doing this because it's their job and no other reason and they're being held hostage by Starbreeze. But nothing says they are.
So as I see it these are less facts and more financial facts and then your conjecture based on those facts.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;48984800]Right, so I can see where you're getting 'Starbreeze is spending way too much fucking money' from. But everything else seems like conjecture to me. We don't know how married Starbreeze and Overkill are, we don't know if Starbreeze is one to 'give orders', and we have no records of any orders being given at all. And if it is true that Overkill has a gun to their head, nobody who's left Overkill has said so and nobody at Overkill has let so much as a peep out to suggest they're anything but happily compliant with what they're doing. Of course we'd like to think that they're doing this because it's their job and no other reason and they're being held hostage by Starbreeze. But nothing says they are.
So as I see it these are less facts and more financial facts and then your conjecture based on those facts.[/QUOTE]
Even if they were compliant, they sort of have to be. It's a bad financial situation. I'd be compliant, too, if it meant I get to keep my job for, an apparent, long time coming.
Never explicitly said they're being forced to or "head at gunpoint", but they don't really have room to say no.
Yes, micros suck. Yeah, they lied. Sometimes you eat words in big business, whether it be for the better or worse.
The thing is the timing for microtransactions was probably the worst there could be - during an event that was supposed to give free content we get slapped in the face by microtransactions on the very first day.
