I usually don't mind spoilers, but this got to be one the only game in my entire life I'm actively trying to steer clear of major spoilers. Hope it's gonna be worth it, because I probably won't be able to get the game until the beginning of July.
Can't wait to get this game. I ordered it for free over the weekend and now it's the painful waiting game.
[QUOTE=StrawberryClock;41079789]I usually don't mind spoilers, but this got to be one the only game in my entire life I'm actively trying to steer clear of major spoilers. Hope it's gonna be worth it, because I probably won't be able to get the game until the beginning of July.[/QUOTE]
You won't regret it either.
Good luck!
This and Beyond Two souls are/will be the best ps3 games of the year.
[QUOTE=Rathlin1;41072930][sp] But the problem is you'd think they would actually first jump to primates, turning them then jump to Humans but it seems it just out right jumps from insects to Humans.[/sp][/QUOTE]
insects aren't "closer" to monkeys than they are to humans. also, humans are primates.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;41079489]So I decided to spoil the ending my myself because curiosity killed me.
[sp]Holy shit I hate that ending. Someone please tell me why I shouldn't even begin to hate this ending so much. I still think the game looks and plays awesome, but that mother fucking ending. Fuck you Joel, fuck you for doing that and screwing the species over.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Playing through and experiencing the rest of the story until the ending is very different to just finding out the ending.
What could have made the game an even better story was to have us play through parts of the 20 years between the start of outbreak to where the game starts.
[QUOTE=Xieneus;41078973]The only bug I've encountered was at [sp]the university[/sp]. Ellie suddenly became the thing and remained that way until we escaped.[/QUOTE]
[thumb]http://imageshack.us/a/img59/2162/z7gx.jpg[/thumb]
[highlight]MAKE US WHOLE, JOEL[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Frosty701;41081579]What could have made the game an even better story was to have us [sp]play through parts of the 20 years between the start of outbreak to where the game starts.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Would be great DLC, actually.
(Didn't know if it was a spoiler so I tagged it)
[QUOTE=Xieneus;41081841][thumb]http://imageshack.us/a/img59/2162/z7gx.jpg[/thumb]
[highlight]MAKE US WHOLE, JOEL[/highlight][/QUOTE]
The fuck...
[QUOTE=Frosty701;41081923]The fuck...[/QUOTE]
I told you Ellie became The Thing.
Honestly, I'd love to hear the story of how Joel became who he is, basicly the 20 years between.
So is the game worth all the 10/10 ratings?
[QUOTE=Zar;41082357]Honestly, I'd love to hear the story of how Joel became who he is, basicly the 20 years between.[/QUOTE]
Smelly DLC incoming
[editline]18th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;41082387]So is the game worth all the 10/10 ratings?[/QUOTE]
If not 10/10, at least 9/10
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;41082387]So is the game worth all the 10/10 ratings?[/QUOTE]
As long as we realize that 10/10 doesn't mean perfect, then yes.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;41082387]So is the game worth all the 10/10 ratings?[/QUOTE]
First game that could actually have potential for a 10/10. Judging by how Call of Duty gets 9, or 9.5. This game really feels spot on.
[editline]18th June 2013[/editline]
And I love and hate the ending. It's one of those that make you think and wonder, and you'll never get an answer. I LOVE IT BUT FUCK I HATE IT.
Anyone who didn't like the ending completely missed the whole point of the [sp]giraffe[/sp] scene.
[sp]The world is healing. Everything is going back into equilibrium without the interference of the human race. Joel seeing the giraffes makes him realize this, and that's why he asks if Ellie just wants to go back. When he realizes that Ellie needs to die to make the vaccine that probably wont do anything but harm the natural order of things, what would you expect him to do? He does what he does best. He kills every motherfucker in between him and the child he has sworn himself to protect.[/sp]
[sp]Fucking beautiful ending.[/sp]
So im buying a PS3 for this and now I want to buy a nintendo 3DS for AC:New Leaf. I fucking hate exclusives.
[QUOTE=ShadowSocks8;41082901]Anyone who didn't like the ending completely missed the whole point of the [sp]giraffe[/sp] scene.
[sp]The world is healing. Everything is going back into equilibrium without the interference of the human race. Joel seeing the giraffes makes him realize this, and that's why he asks if Ellie just wants to go back. When he realizes that Ellie needs to die to make the vaccine that probably wont do anything but harm the natural order of things, what would you expect him to do? He does what he does best. He kills every motherfucker in between him and the child he has sworn himself to protect.[/sp]
[sp]Fucking beautiful ending.[/sp][/QUOTE]
This fucker knows what's going on.
I want a [sp]deer hunting[/sp] minigame.
[QUOTE=ShadowSocks8;41082901]Anyone who didn't like the ending completely missed the whole point of the [sp]giraffe[/sp] scene.
[sp]The world is healing. Everything is going back into equilibrium without the interference of the human race. Joel seeing the giraffes makes him realize this, and that's why he asks if Ellie just wants to go back. When he realizes that Ellie needs to die to make the vaccine that probably wont do anything but harm the natural order of things, what would you expect him to do? He does what he does best. He kills every motherfucker in between him and the child he has sworn himself to protect.[/sp]
[sp]Fucking beautiful ending.[/sp][/QUOTE]
I never thought of it that way. I guess I can agree with [sp]Joel[/sp] now, I hated him for the first few hours after finishing the game. [sp]It gives off the impression that he literally doomed humanity because of his selfish needs, but I guess I underestimated him.[/sp]
[editline]giraffe[/editline]
Ohh, I get it! That's why there was a [sp]giraffe in the Greatness Awaits trailer![/sp]
So you're right, that scene was more significant than just bonding.
[QUOTE=Sharker;41083002]I want a [sp]deer hunting[/sp] minigame.[/QUOTE]
Added to the list of things I want:
- [sp]'20 years' DLC (What happened from Sarah dying to Joel waking up)[/sp]
- Multiplayer DLC involving infected somehow.
- DLC following from the ending of the game.
- More maps for multiplayer
- Hunting minigame.
[QUOTE=Sharker;41083002]I want a [sp]deer hunting[/sp] minigame.[/QUOTE]
Hunting the [sp]elk as Ellie was one of the most fun parts in the game for me. She looks so badass with that bow.[/sp]
[editline]aa[/editline]
[QUOTE=Frosty701;41083070]Did you not hear that there were others [sp]before Ellie, so going along with it would mean nothing[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]No, I missed that completely. I was too focused on killing the fireflies; I thought it be like Heavy Rain, with a timer. If I took to long, then they'd have already killed her. If I had found the note about the other immune kids before finishing, then I would've had a completely different opinion of the ending. I assumed Joel was just lying about the other immune survivors.[/sp]
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;41083034]I never thought of it that way. I guess I can agree with [sp]Joel[/sp] now, I hated him for the first few hours after finishing the game. [sp]It gives off the impression that he literally doomed humanity because of his selfish needs, but I guess I underestimated him.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Did you not hear that there were others [sp]before Ellie, so going along with it would mean nothing[/sp]
[QUOTE=Frosty701;41083070]Did you not hear that there were others [sp]before Ellie, so going along with it would mean nothing[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]Joel lied.[/sp]
[QUOTE=RaxaHax;41083112][sp]Joel lied.[/sp][/QUOTE]
There was a recorder I'm pretty sure that explained that.
Unless I'm wrong.
[QUOTE=Frosty701;41083134]There was a recorder I'm pretty sure that explained that.
Unless I'm wrong.[/QUOTE]
[sp] You're both right. Joel told Ellie that at the Firefly base there was a bunch of other kids already there, immune and being tested etc, so they didn't need her. Which, of course, was a lie. But the truth is that there WERE other immune individuals, but they did the same to them they were gonna do to Ellie, and it all ended in failure.[/sp]
[sp]Max Payne needs to take notes on how to save those he has sworn to protect[/sp]
God I love being stealthy in multiplayer, managed to flank the entire enemy team and burn 3 of them with the flamethrower and then shoot down the last guy with the burst rifle.
[QUOTE=ShadowSocks8;41083251][sp] You're both right. Joel told Ellie that at the Firefly base there was a bunch of other kids already there, immune and being tested etc, so they didn't need her. Which, of course, was a lie. But the truth is that there WERE other immune individuals, but they did the same to them they were gonna do to Ellie, and it all ended in failure.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp] Really? I thought he just lied to her, what tells you there were other immune humans forced surgery before? I kinda rushed through that level since I was busy getting attacked by seemingly never-ending Fireflies. I found the surgeon's recorder as well as Marlene's ones, surgeon just went on about the infection and Marlene just kept on being crazy in her recordings.
I don't know if DLC will include Joel and Ellie, maybe, since ND only said a sequel wouldn't contain them, not DLC.[/sp]
Oh yeah by the way I wrote a really long explanation of the plot on some Forbes article since for some reason the writer goes on about morals in such a world, I added some more stuff and explained it better, I also posted a few more detailed comments but this one is really the main one, here it is:
[sp]I just created an account purely to say this: A vaccine and a cure are quite two different things Mr Tassi, in The Last of Us it’s a vaccine, not a cure and I’ll explain, a vaccine would prevent infection by building an immunity against it, it’s basically a more docile infection without the whole turning into a crazy plant person and the body prepares against it, creating an immunity so if you were to be bitten by infected you wouldn't turn, meaning the infection couldn't spread any more, at least to those immune. They will still carry the infection, capable of passing it on via bites, scratches, a kiss, whatever. Ellie herself is aware of that, biting and scratching David, telling him he's now infected when she was captured.
However a cure is much different, a cure would imply you could stop or reverse the changes the infection caused. This is quite an impossible task seeing the way the infection works, it corrupts the brain and the body with spores at a certain stage, the Clicker stage and past that would be a area none could return from bar a medical miracle. Although those stages couldn't work, if you were to create a cure it would be able to work if the person was only recently infected but has yet to turn or perhaps even at Stage one: the Runner seeing as they’re not too far gone but the chances of reversing stage one is slim, all it could do is prevent one from turning and because of that you might as well just go for a vaccine instead.
The thing attempted in The Last of Us is not a cure, but a vaccine. Such a thing is laughable though, a vaccine at this stage? After 20 years of the infection spreading and the Fireflies believe that would even do anything? A cure is not practically possible but a vaccine is viable. The usage of such would be heavily limited and basically useless so long after the outbreak, perhaps it could have turned the tide if it was created soon after the outbreak of the infection but at that point in time it wouldn't do that much. How in hell would you even supply the vaccine anyway? The world has long gone to hell, with the remaining pockets of humanity (in game WHO article says 60%+ are either dead or infected at the time of publishing, more would die/be infected in the time since it was published) scattered far and wide across the world, it would be quite the achievement to even supply it to residents in the USA with such a lack of resources and everyone too busy surviving, it’s purely a lost cause but the Fireflies have sacrificed too much to leave it at that and continue on attempting to create a vaccine at all costs fearing all the sacrifice would be in vain.
I dare to attack your criticism of the morals of Joel: Since when have morals helped you survive? Here’s one in game example: After you get the car from Bill you drive for quite the time until you and Ellie see a person showing injury, assuming you are moral you would help the poor man, wouldn't you? How kind of you! Until it reveals how it’s actually a trap used by bandits to kill people so they themselves can survive. In a time like this morality goes flying out the window and any attempt to retain it ends up in your death, to put it simply. Joel understood this, he changed from normal law-abiding citizen to a survivor willing to do anything to live and that’s why he survived 20 years after the outbreak.
Ellie shows signs of a mental condition named “survivor’s guilt” through-out the game and especially at the end when she reveals Riley’s death, she feels guilt for multiple people, blaming herself for the deaths of Tess, Sam and Riley (all infected, Ellie’s fear when asked by Sam is not the infected but “to be alone”) even though it isn't actually her fault she’s immune and they weren't. Through-out the game she goes on about how it all can’t be for nothing and does show signs of actually wanting to live such as the part before they drowns telling Joel “after all this you can teach me how to swim” implying she and Joel (he also assumes it, he tells her “after all this I’ll teach you how to play guitar” but is met with silence, either this is because of her survivor’s guilt or because of the encounter with David as this level begins right after David’s death at the hands of Ellie. (Do note David was indeed a cannibalistic paedophile, he quite affectionately touches Ellie's hand when telling her he wants her to join his group) think it’s just going to be a blood sample and not surgery while she’s having conflicting emotions over what is the correct choice due to the mental condition, in a child survivor’s guilt is especially difficult to deal with obviously.
In the end Joel saves Ellie from forced surgery (explained in a second) by having to kill the main surgeon as he threatened Joel by either stabbing him with the surgeon’s knife or you can choose to just shoot him if you want, the other two are optional but they are busy cowering, calling Joel an animal and being fearful for their lives. Joel escapes to the elevator carrying Ellie by running past multiple Fireflies and arrives in the hospital’s underground garage only to be greeted by a gun-pointing Marlene who goes on about “what if” scenarios regarding Ellie but then says “IT’S WHAT SHE WOULD WANT” showing Ellie didn't actually give permission, it’s not wants but would want. You find a few recorders by Marlene explaining however that her permission asked by the surgeons, Marlene or Ellie’s refusal wouldn't achieve squat, they were mere formalities, they would go ahead with the surgery even if Marlene or Ellie refused.
Joel then shoots Marlene after she started to lower her weapon, Marlene begging for her life causes Joel to hesitate until he says how she would “just come after us” as in she wouldn't stop at getting Ellie back to attempt a vaccine, he then shoots her in the head, takes the car and heads toward Tommy’s camp, her death meant no Firefly pursuers – Ellie was finally safe. Do note Joel does indeed through-out the game soften to Ellie from where he only wants to get rid of her and get his payment to willing to kill and die for her, likening her to his dead daughter.
On the outskirts of Tommy’s camp Ellie in another final burst of survivor’s guilt, confronts Joel about the Fireflies, about him lying saying how the Fireflies failed to provide a vaccine via testing on various other immune people but Joel lies again to console her, with Ellie possibly seeing right through it. The whole seeing through it is speculation, it's never confirmed but with the game's complex facial expressions it seems like it's implied.
This action would cause the removal of most, if not all of the weight of survivor’s guilt from Ellie seeing as they can put some if not all of the blame on Joel.
This is the end of Joel and Ellie’s story, them living out their lives in the relative safety of Tommy’s camp.
There are 5 stages of infection: Runner, Stalker, Clicker, Bloater and finally the Spore Cadaver. All stages however can become the Spore Cadaver (??? Either that or they have to go through all stages, it's difficult to tell since the body rots while the spores spread, hard to tell what it was before) however and they don’t have to go through all stages of infection (you see a possible runner spore cadaver quite early in the game where Joel and Tess wonder where all the spores are coming from).
The Spore Cadaver is the final stage, the infected find a dark corner and die, becoming a Spore Cadaver and spreading the spores in an enclosed area and therefore the infection. This is easily dealt with using gas masks when forced to confront such areas.
At this point all mankind can do is survive like they have did before, rebuild society while hunting down the infected, eventually they all become the Spore Cadavers so a possibility is to wait it out then track the cadavers down and burn them. Where bullets fail, fire doesn't. Fire is effective against the infected in general, even more so than bullets.
So basically Joel is right, surviving, saving Ellie and all that. A vaccine is pretty much as useless as a vaccine can be, especially seeing as you would have to kill an immune person to attempt the creation of a vaccine with no promise it would work. Even if a vaccine worked the Infected do still exist, they just can’t spread it to those immune but they still are very much a threat. Supplying the vaccine to those that require it is a nigh-impossible task in that type of world so damaged. Everyone in the game is simply surviving, nor good or evil. When society falls so does morality.
A sequel is a possibility but it won’t contain Joel and Ellie since their story is already told in this game sadly. DLC with Joel and Ellie however is possible, they only said they wouldn't be in a sequel, not DLC.[/sp]
However some disagree with the whole argument and I'd rather argue it here than on the Forbes comments:
[sp]"I’m afraid I disagree with most of your points. Firstly, a vaccine would be a huge advantage in eliminating the infected, and arguing against that is just lying to yourself in order to excuse your/Joel’s selfish actions. Distributing wouldn’t be a problem, if it was easy to administer, it could be given to the government and given out in quarantine zones. There is simply no question that a vaccine to the cordyceps would significantly improve the lives of countless people. And the other argument, not made by you, about whether humanity is worth saving because everyone’s suffered so much and are now too morally vacant is just demonstrably wrong, as shown by excellent people/s living on after a persecution like the holocaust or Stalin’s reign over communist Russia.
And you can’t claim that Joel is excused from his actions because abiding by any sense of right and wrong is a disadvantage in an apocalyptic setting, and then use that to claim that it was morally right to act selfishly. You argue for one or the other, otherwise its a circular argument.
Listen, I’m as glad as anyone who played the game that Joel and Ellie live happily ever after, but any objective morality would prioritize the lives of thousands over the life a young girl, as wonderful as she may be. As hard as it is, the only remotely moral option is to engineer the vaccine (there’s no other way of getting it can keep Ellie alive), and to disagree is just blind selfishness. Not that that isn’t understandable, but its still very wrong. You have to give her up.
HOWEVER:
I agree that Ellie should have been consulted, that is a contention I have with the fireflies. As Marlene says, she certainly would have said yes, and it could have been a tearful goodbye instead of her being snatched from you.
We see everything through Joel’s eyes, which are similar to our own, and so we are very pained by the idea of Ellie dying, so everyone’s glad that Ellie was saved, but an important point is that WE DIDN’T HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION TO SACRIFICE EVERYTHING ELSE FOR HER, JOEL DID IT INSTEAD.
The player is morally blameless, there’s no choice the player can make, so we can enjoy the consequences of being reunited with Ellie but not have to live what Joel lives with."
A vaccine wouldn't be since the supposedly many failures to produce one from other immune (?), Joel = selfish? Please, this isn't some god-damn fairytale knight in shining armour plot, you either be "selfish" or you go die in a hole, you either drop the morals or you go die in a hole, you either adapt to a survival-focused mindset or you go die in a hole. Supplying it would be a problem, everyone is survival-focused (like they would even give it to everyone, Fireflies no doubt have grudges against the military and bandits and those against their views) as well as the fact humanity is scattered across the world, good fucking luck giving it to them before they get infected or die. Oh but you can just go give it to the military and they can supply it! What? Fireflies are against the military, the military fucking hates them it even shows that in game. You know how the successful revolutions started in the other QZs? Fireflies. They couldn't have been able to overthrow the military otherwise. You give it to the military and they'll use it for more control. He seems to be saying you can just supply it to the USA first but you can't even go down a block without problems as well as the fact mankind is really damaged population-wise and they would probably just kill you and steal your shit if you said you had a vaccine. A vaccine at that point is as useless as one can be, assuming it wasn't all for nothing and it worked. As well as the fact Ellie didn't want to fucking die, she has survivor's guilt so if she were to choose to do it, it would be because of Tess, Sam and Riley's fall to infection but she doesn't know she had to go via surgery, it was believed to be a mere blood sample, expecting a kid who wants to live to die for another (?) possible chance to create a vaccine while they have survivor's guilt is pathetic, the Fireflies are just too busy being fucking nuts trying to finally finish what they started because of all the things they sacrificed to get to that point. Fucking Forbes comments having no idea what they're talking about, even the fucking writer doesn't, for some reason he keeps confusing cure for vaccine like many others. And he too brings morals into it.
What the fuck why are people bringing morals into a world like this? You do know the entire game keeps saying morals get you killed, right? Stop using it as an argument. I'm not saying anything was morally right, I'm just saying it was the best choice to act "selfishly" seeing as if you don't look out for yourself or your family by being willing to shoot some bastard bandit that goes from "IMA KILL U M8" to "please i didn't mean it" to convince you to let them live/survive, you die and your family dies. Bringing morals into it = lost the argument, seeing as you must not have played the same game I have as it repeatedly shows you morals are stupid to have or follow in such a world where survival is everything. It kinda changes from surviving day to day to living when they settle down in Tommy's camp though seeing as they have electricity and self-sustain, no doubt have rules as well, morals don't come into play yet, they can still get attacked by bandits and teaching kids to not hurt others and help everyone you come across at that point is not a great idea, still will have to do some bad shit to survive outside the camp.
Have we been playing the same game or what?[/sp]
God damn forbes comments, sick of them. I honestly don't know why I bothered explaining it there, don't even why I explain the game here either since people seem to experience the same problems.
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