Overwatch - She who has the information, has the power - Games

[QUOTE=Scot;50830334]I do think it can make playing certain heroes like Winston a real pain in the ass but without it the squishies would have a much harder time. Remember your team has a Zen too (I hope) so it evens out.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Scot;50830347]Yes it is. Heroes have counters. It just so happens that a counter to Zen is Zen.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Kylel999;50830352]I don't think his discord orb is OP at all Just learn to kill Zen first[/QUOTE] :what: I'm... not sure you get how balance works.

[QUOTE=DeEz;50830383]You can't be serious. Overwatch shouldn't revolve around Zenyatta.[/QUOTE] It's true that Zen is unique in that if one team has one then the other pretty much has to as well, but is that really such a bad thing? He's fun to play and not that difficult to deal with. There are worse issues in OW than Zen being in every team.

[QUOTE=Scot;50830396]It's true that Zen is unique in that if one team has one then the other pretty much has to as well, but is that really such a bad thing? He's fun to play and not that difficult to deal with. There are worse issues in OW than Zen being in every team.[/QUOTE] :speechless:

[QUOTE=Scot;50830396]It's true that Zen is unique in that if one team has one then the other pretty much has to as well, but is that really such a bad thing? He's fun to play and not that difficult to deal with. There are worse issues in OW than Zen being in every team.[/QUOTE] I think making the gameplay 1/6 less diverse is a pretty fucking huge problem.

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;50830390]That's not a real counter, a real counter means that if you're fighting a good X hero, you go Y hero so that even if they're a bit better than you, you have a big advantage in a fight against them. If X hero's counter IS X hero, then you have no advantage at all if the enemy is better than or equal to you in skill. You can't go Zenyatta to deal with a good Zenyatta, because they'll have an even easier time killing you if they now counter you as well.[/QUOTE] What I meant was for the team as a whole, not literally. I play Zen a lot and can count the times I've 1v1'd another on one hand, since both are usually on the back line.

Before Zen got a health buff nobody cared about discord but now that he's able to live for longer than a second its a problem now? :why: I said it before he got buffed and I'll say it now too, 175 health is Zenyatta's sweetspot.

i feel like im in bizarro world because i have never ever heard anyone bitch about zen until now

There's a reason why he has a 100% pick rate in tournaments, and it's not because of his healing.

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;50830406]I think making the gameplay 1/6 less diverse is a pretty fucking huge problem.[/QUOTE] genji on attack is an instalock rein on most maps is an instalock winston on KotH is an instalock people dont seem to care about these

[QUOTE=Steel & Iron;50830349][t]http://i.imgur.com/vrvlnHR.png[/t] Felt kinda bad for the Lucio, being 7 ranks higher than the lowest player.[/QUOTE] That's nothing, I've seen a 20 rank difference between highest and lowest. Sometimes matchmaking makes interesting decisions.

[QUOTE=Scot;50830423][B]genji on attack is an instalock[/B] rein on most maps is an instalock winston on KotH is an instalock people dont seem to care about these[/QUOTE] I've seen at least 4 complaints about this per page for the last 4 pages.

[QUOTE=Scot;50830423]genji on attack is an instalock rein on most maps is an instalock winston on KotH is an instalock people dont seem to care about these[/QUOTE] I think the game would be improved if there were more options in those scenarios, but all of those are a lot better than "Zenyatta on everything ever no exceptions is an instalock"

[QUOTE=OzzyCockroach;50830430]I've seen at least 4 complaints about this per page for the last 4 pages.[/QUOTE] Yeah a lot of it was me fuck genji lets all talk about how annoying genji is instead

Genji 175 health. ez [sp]Dont do this just nerf his ult charge rate[/sp]

[QUOTE=Scot;50830437]Yeah a lot of it was me fuck genji lets all talk about how annoying genji is instead[/QUOTE] "Hi Winston" "Bye Winston" "Hi McCree" "Bye McCree" Brb dashing away from this thread now until my ult is off CD.

[QUOTE=Scot;50830347]Yes it is. Heroes have counters. It just so happens that a counter to Zen is Zen.[/QUOTE] No, it is not how game balance works. If the only counter to something is itself, it means that thing needs a 100% pickrate otherwise the enemy team will use it and you'll be at a disadvantage. It means it is so ridiculously broken that you [B]HAVE[/B] to use it if you want to stand a chance of winning. There really is no excuse for "balancing" like this, since it'll quickly lead to either a huge power creep or a very strict meta where most characters might as well not exist. Having to play around other heroes' strengths and weaknesses by picking different counters is not the same as something being so strong you have to use it. Most counters in this game are based on exploiting mechanics: beam weapons working against projectile reflects, hitscan being powerful vs. pharah due to her mobility, stuns working well vs. mobile characters, etc. Zen is not a true Zen counter, he's just a "counter" because he's so ridiculously strong that running Zen against a Zen leaves no team at a distinct advantage, being at the mercy(heh) of whoever will play him the best. Imagine giving a hero a passive that gives every teammate +25% ult gain rate, or 25% damage resistance, or something equally ridiculous(like 50% extra damage, which is effectively Zen's ability the way he is, at least on coordinated comp teams). There's no countering this, there's no way to outplay it. You can use it vs. the enemy team too, but that's not proper game balance.

zarya's bubble removes discord orb btw

[QUOTE=Scot;50830437]Yeah a lot of it was me fuck genji lets all talk about how annoying genji is instead[/QUOTE] Seagull OP, pls nerf Blizzard.

I don't get why people say Mcree counters Genji? Mcree needs to be perfectly accurate to deal damage to something that small, Genji moves really fucking fast making it harder to hit, and denies Mcree's ult easily. The only thing at all Mcree has on him is that he has the flash, but Genji doesn't ever have to get into flashbang range to deal damage to him and can reflect the flash right back at him anyways.

[QUOTE=Scot;50830457]zarya's bubble removes discord orb btw[/QUOTE] i see your point, but it doesn't make much of a difference when you'll rarely be shooting at zarya's shield and you can add another discord orb the moment it's done. you can even just put it on another target for the two seconds if the zarya isn't too much of a threat, or just shoot the shield and put the orb back. There's not much to lose when there's no cooldown and almost no travel time.

[QUOTE=Scot;50830457]zarya's bubble removes discord orb btw[/QUOTE] Which is basically irrelevant because Zenyatta can reapply the instant the target becomes vulnerable again, i.e. when it matters.

[QUOTE=RandomGamer342;50830474]i see your point, but it doesn't make much of a difference when you'll rarely be shooting at zarya's shield and you can add another discord orb the moment it's done. you can even just put it on another target for the two seconds if the zarya isn't too much of a threat, or just shoot the shield and put the orb back. There's not much to lose when there's no cooldown and almost no travel time.[/QUOTE] You asked for a counter and I gave you one. A bubbled enemy can cut through zen like butter and there's nothing he can do about it. Even if he survives through it by the time he's applied a new discord orb and gotten a shot in he's dead af

[QUOTE=Scot;50830482]You asked for a counter and I gave you one. A bubbled enemy can cut through zen like butter.[/QUOTE] I think your zen bias is getting to your head

[QUOTE=OzzyCockroach;50830417]Before Zen got a health buff nobody cared about discord but now that he's able to live for longer than a second its a problem now? :why: I said it before he got buffed and I'll say it now too, 175 health is Zenyatta's sweetspot.[/QUOTE] this. he's had discord [b]since the beginning[/b] and now people are complaining about it? they even nerfed his damage guys.. literally the only thing he has gained since ptr is a 25 health boost and faster discord / harmony.

Discord was never a problem before because he was always dead.

Zenyatta's bonus damage from discord needs to be lowered a little and he would be fine. Tanks and supports are the two most balanced pools in the game and what isn't between those two groups of heroes needs very small tweaks.

[QUOTE=DeEz;50830503]Discord was never a problem before because he was always dead.[/QUOTE] oh, so to solve the problem is to make him unplayable then?

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;50830473]I don't get why people say Mcree counters Genji? Mcree needs to be perfectly accurate to deal damage to something that small, Genji moves really fucking fast making it harder to hit, and denies Mcree's ult easily. The only thing at all Mcree has on him is that he has the flash, but Genji doesn't ever have to get into flashbang range to deal damage to him and can reflect the flash right back at him anyways.[/QUOTE] McCree is a hitscan hero with significantly more damage than Genji at range. Genji has projectiles firing over a period of time, so he needs to be nearly equally accurate, have good tracking and hope the McCree doesn't dodge or simply outdamage him in the time period. The flashbang can go either way since they both need to bait out each other's abilities, but McCree's doesn't leave him with no damage(other than reflects) for two seconds and he still outdamages Genji at close-range if he never reflects. The Genji does have his signature animation-cancelling burst, but that requires him to effectively hug McCree which should give him an easy shot too. Sure, he's not a hard counter, but few heroes in this game are. He's still got enough of an advantage that he should be getting out on top.

[QUOTE=DeEz;50830503]Discord was never a problem before because he was always dead.[/QUOTE] Not true at all. If you had a decent team it wasn't that hard to stay alive as Zen pre-buff.

[QUOTE=OzzyCockroach;50830445]Genji 175 health. ez [sp]Dont do this just nerf his ult charge rate[/sp][/QUOTE] Not just ult charge rate, but the length of the ult is insane. It's functionally a free team wipe if your Genji is good enough, or has a Lucio / Ana ult to combo with.