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[QUOTE=Furnost;50831137]i just refuse to think zen is even slightly ok with where he is right now when he is a mandatory pick 24/7, no fucking hero should be like that.[/QUOTE] lucio would like a word with you. lucio is still objectively the best healer for objective focused teams, its just zen is now flavor of the month. Mercy has always been an ehh healer compared to lucio, and now zen is up to lucio's usefulness.

We'll see how the meta evolves the coming weeks, but if Zen and Lucio remain as dominant as they are now then we're likely to see some changes to counteract that.

what if instead of having enemy hero lock-ons Zenyatta actually had to aim orb of discord? it wouldn't have a [i]huge[/i] impact on high skill players but having a brief time where discord isn't up because he missed a particularly mobile target could turn quite a few scenarios in the enemy's favor alternatively give it a brief cooldown/make it remove much quicker upon loss of line of sight because 100% uptime is really what makes it bonkers

mercy just needs to be made best healer. thats ALL she is for, theres no reason to not have her be the go-to for healing

Just nerf Discord damage bonus. You guys are thinking too hard about this stuff.

[QUOTE=Banned?;50831235]Just nerf Discord damage bonus. You guys are thinking too hard about this stuff.[/QUOTE] and not touch lucio? he still outheals mercy so you have absolutely no reason to pick her. if you want utility + survivability you should pick lucio, not pick him because he has all of that AND the best healing

If Lucio can AoE heal, you should make Mercy's single target heal better...like a lot better.

Isn't healing the only thing Mercy can do? From that point wouldn't it make sense to make her the most viable healer to balance the fact that she can't do anything else?

[QUOTE=bord2tears;50830906]Zen needs 100 HP and 100 shield. 150 shield is def too much. Discord needs a debuff to maybe 30% Zen was fun before, but too weak. Zen got overbuffed, and I'm loving it.[/QUOTE] Bringing discord down to 30% makes it a worse damage boost from mercy

[QUOTE=Furnost;50831244]and not touch lucio? he still outheals mercy so you have absolutely no reason to pick her. if you want utility + survivability you should pick lucio, not pick him because he has all of that AND the best healing[/QUOTE] I wasn't talking about Lucio, but if you want to do something about Lucio then do something about his speed boost. That more than anything is what makes most defensive heroes useless. Every map has choke points that you just speed boost through without contest and it makes defensive heroes trying to protect those points have no impact. I wouldn't even mind seeing them change his ultie to something involving the speed boost or some kind of big ability change to his ultimate (because his and Zenyatta's ultimate are too similar imo) but that is something more drastic than what actually has to be done to him right now. [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Dookas;50831264]Bringing discord down to 30% makes it a worse damage boost from mercy[/QUOTE] I rated this disagree but I also misunderstood what you were saying so just ignore it plz. Mercy damage boost is not bad because Discord orb is good though.

[QUOTE=marmalade;50831253]Isn't healing the only thing Mercy can do? From that point wouldn't it make sense to make her the most viable healer to balance the fact that she can't do anything else?[/QUOTE] thats how it should be. any other hero they have something to make up for not having as good healing. lucio prevents kills with ult + his speed and AoE healing, zen has his damage going on and an ult that nullifies a hell of a lot of other heroes ults, ana's ult is really good as it is right now and if youre a good shot burst healing is good as well, and her sleep has utility in a well coordinated team. mercy just has her healing and a damage boost, and an ult that super relies on a good opportunity for it to actually be effective (if you manage to avoid dying, actually have it up, and manage to get all of the rez's in, and thats besides it being hugely nerfed right now) [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Banned?;50831266]I wasn't talking about Lucio, but if you want to do something about Lucio then do something about his speed boost. That more than anything is what makes most defensive heroes useless. Every map has choke points that you just speed boost through without contest and it makes defensive heroes trying to protect those points have no impact. I wouldn't even mind seeing them change his ultie to something involving the speed boost or some kind of big ability change to his ultimate (because his and Zenyatta's ultimate are too similar imo) but that is something more drastic than what actually has to be done to him right now. [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] I rated this disagree but I also misunderstood what you were saying so just ignore it plz. Mercy damage boost is not bad because Discord orb is good though.[/QUOTE] you didnt address lucio which is the 2nd part of why mercy is in the trash right now. nerf discord and yeah people will go for mercy more often because shes a better healer than him, but that still leaves lucio who is just better in every way right now. [i]both[/i] zen and lucio are a problem in making mercy not viable

[QUOTE=Banned?;50831266] I rated this disagree but I also misunderstood what you were saying so just ignore it plz. Mercy damage boost is not bad because Discord orb is good though.[/QUOTE] I understand that but but I dont think the damage boost is what mercy needs buffed

lucio has also been like ~90% pick rate on those comp pick lists since release, you would think they would have done something by now since they did something to mercy...

[QUOTE=Furnost;50831292]you didnt address lucio which is the 2nd part of why mercy is in the trash right now. nerf discord and yeah people will go for mercy more often because shes a better healer than him, but that still leaves lucio who is just better in every way right now. [i]both[/i] zen and lucio are a problem in making mercy not viable[/QUOTE] I don't think Lucio's healing is why he is pushing out Mercy. I think he + Zen hurting strats with multiple tanks is pushing out Mercy because it's less protection for Mercy and less large health pools to build up ultimate quickly. [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Furnost;50831316]lucio has also been like ~90% pick rate on those comp pick lists since release, you would think they would have done something by now since they did something to mercy...[/QUOTE] If you think Lucio being a good healer is why he is so strong then you just don't know why he is strong. He is super fucking important because he makes passing through choke points as simple as pushing a button (speed boost). This is why pro teams use him [del]and this is what happens in high rank comp games[/del] too. It's why an entire category of heroes is not used in pro play and why they're constantly underrepresented in ranked play. [B]E:[/B] I shouldn't say high rank comp games because the highest average I get these days is 72-74, and only if I am duo queuing, which isn't [I]super[/I] high so just ignore that part. I'm misspeaking.

I'm new to this thread so I doubt I'm one of the first dozen people to comment on Blizzard's heavy use of "they thought s/he was dead... now they're back... and part cyborg!" as a backstory for their heroes but recently I can't stop thinking of the possibility of Dr. Harold Winston being a playable hero eventually

[QUOTE=Damjen;50830392]:what: I'm... not sure you get how balance works.[/QUOTE] I understand perfectly how balance works. We don't see anybody bitching about how hard it is to kill a team who's being kept at full health by a Mercy, do we? No. Because most of us realize that the support characters are important to take down

[QUOTE=~Kiwi~v2;50830723][t]https://chie.club/files/images/st/d3d092b6-3e65-4a2f-8b04-04f7b56d397d.jpg[/t] My guns... They're missing...[/QUOTE] The EU was paying for them.

[QUOTE=Banned?;50831319]I don't think Lucio's healing is why he is pushing out Mercy. I think he + Zen hurting strats with multiple tanks is pushing out Mercy because it's less protection for Mercy and less large health pools to build up ultimate quickly. [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] If you think Lucio being a good healer is why he is so strong then you just don't know why he is strong. He is super fucking important because he makes passing through choke points as simple as pushing a button (speed boost). This is why pro teams use him [del]and this is what happens in high rank comp games[/del] too. It's why an entire category of heroes is not used in pro play and why they're constantly underrepresented in ranked play. [B]E:[/B] I shouldn't say high rank comp games because the highest average I get these days is 72-74, and only if I am duo queuing, which isn't [I]super[/I] high so just ignore that part. I'm misspeaking.[/QUOTE] i dont play or pay any attention to comp so anything that happens with speed boost usage is irrelevant to me, im just saying that literally every game in quick play you basically [I]need[/I] to have a lucio because his mindless healing and sometimes hitting E manages to be more effective right now than a dedicated healer whose only job is that: to heal. people played her so much because of her ult and with that being massively nerfed theres nothing else to her now. lucio just has far more survivability and utility than she does, and when you have more survivability youre gonna live longer and put out more healing, coupled with his constant amped healing and just healing anyone in sight he does more healing than she will

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;50830473]I don't get why people say Mcree counters Genji? Mcree needs to be perfectly accurate to deal damage to something that small, Genji moves really fucking fast making it harder to hit, and denies Mcree's ult easily. The only thing at all Mcree has on him is that he has the flash, but Genji doesn't ever have to get into flashbang range to deal damage to him and can reflect the flash right back at him anyways.[/QUOTE] You can throw a flash over the deflect hitbox and still hit.

You [I]can[/I] throw flashbangs above or below Genji, but somehow that little shit still seems to knock most of them back at me.

[QUOTE=Furnost;50831376]i dont play or pay any attention to comp so anything that happens with speed boost usage is irrelevant to me[/QUOTE] Then, frankly, I don't think you should be talking about balance.

[QUOTE=Banned?;50831425]Then, frankly, I don't think you should be talking about balance.[/QUOTE] so a game shouldnt take into consideration something like quickplay for balancing, where the majority of the playerbase is? only comp matters? if thats what youre saying thats a retarded way to think

I agree with what others have said -- Now that we've played with the recent char changes for a while, it is apparent to me that Zen in general is too good, and Dva's defense matrix is too good. Genji is annoying but bearable in my opinion. I feel like Blizz overcorrected on Zen and Dva and I hope they are working on some tweaks that keep those characters viable/fun but bring them back down to earth. I don't know how other tracer mains are faring. It used to be that Hanzo was the scariest hero for me to 1v1 because, well, Hanzo and his hitboxes + being squishy, but now, Zenyatta is far more terrifying and I lose 80% of the 1v1's against him (within the time it takes a single discord + regular orb to go off) unless I wait to engage until I'm right on top of him (hint: Dolby Atmos makes this difficult). And of course, a good Zenyatta will never be alone anyways.

D.va kinda relies on matrix to exist because of that huge critical hitbox of hers, i don't think she needs to be changed. Zenyatta definitely needs some kind of rework to his discord and mercy just sucks total ass right now and absolutely needs a buff.

I honestly don't know what you are all talking about. Since the slight Zenyatta buff, I've seen maybe 20% increase in Zenyatta picks; maybe 1 of every 3-4 games. Most of the time when a player picks them, they aren't very good. I take out enemy Zenyatta's all the time. Team Zenyattas tend to switch half way through because they keep dying or whatever. I feel his current state is exactly what was needed. However, on the contrary, I've noticed McCree and D.va picks up by like 80%. I think there's a D.va on every other game I've played since the update; McCree basically every game.

Surprise surprise people are picking heroes that are good now and not fucking garbage

[QUOTE=Furnost;50831434]so a game shouldnt take into consideration something like quickplay for balancing, where the majority of the playerbase is? only comp matters? if thats what youre saying thats a retarded way to think[/QUOTE] I think he meant Comp as in the Competetive Overwatch scene. Which is very important to pay attention to for balance.

D.va can still be taken out in two seconds with a roadhog hook + discord or another good dps shooting her. Roadhog is one of the best ways to counter her right now along with a zarya or an in-your-face reaper. However her defense matrix could use a 1 second reduction. Otherwise, I think she's where she should be. They should restore mercy's ult rate again back to where it was to make revives more meaningful again. Either that or someone said earlier, make it she can heal and give out extra damage at the same time. There are many ways to make her good. [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] Speaking of roadhog, got my first potg as him today: [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlJ0qLK1Zh8&feature=youtu.be[/media]

as someone who mainly plays zarya when it comes to tanking I [i]love[/i] this d.va meta right now

Quickolay is pretty fucked too like you can see which heroes are favorites Play quickplay for a night and you'll be able to count the appearances of Winston, Mercy, and Symettra on one hand but every single game will have 76, reaper, lucio, Roadhog etc