Fallout Thread V28: I'm going to Nuka World! - Games

I'm sure they've seen a gun before, because playing this god-damn game feels like it was made at gun-point.

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;50588286]Considering what mechanical absurdities the pipe guns ended up being I wouldn't be surprised if no one on Beth's art team has ever seen a gun in person[/QUOTE] I really don't think realistic gun design was their first priority when designing the guns. As omolong pointed out it was a matter of what looks nice and what's fun to use for the player, not what makes sense down to the mechanical level. The only problem with pipe guns visually is that the colors are too homogeneous, seeing as any mod that changes the metal to black or gun metal make the guns look a lot better.

[QUOTE=Daemon White;50588068]An addition to that is whoever decided to light the game interiors. Go join that heightmap guy. Light objects are scattered absolutely everywhere and cleaning it all up is a huge pain in the ass. They may be getting a neat artsy look to it with faking extra reflections and all, but it's just fucking silly how many light objects there are.[/QUOTE] I bet this is how the game developers' meeting went: [QUOTE] Programmers: We've implemented Deferred rendering Dungeon Designers: What does that mean for us? P: It means that lighting no longer makes performance take a nose dive. Theoretically we could use as many lights as we'd like and it won't affect performance in any negligible way. DD: COOL! *proceeds to spam lights everywhere in the CK like children removing all their toys from their baskets at once*[/QUOTE]

I'm cool with the whole left slide thing because it really is more interesting visually, but I think half-assing the reload on the lever action rifle was super lazy of them.

[QUOTE=fulgrim;50588314]I'm cool with the whole left slide thing because it really is more interesting visually, but I think half-assing the reload on the lever action rifle was super lazy of them.[/QUOTE] Yeah, they definitely made a mistake with the reload. If they didn't want to implement a new reload system, they should have just given it a standard magazine. That'd allow them to change the ammo count like they wanted to, and there wouldn't have been nearly as many complaints about the gun as there have been.

Reloading bullet per bullet was an unstable mess in previous attempts and considering this game has issues with swapping guns while transitioning between outdoor cells my first guess is that they considered not breaking the gun more important than a trivial reload animation. Yeah sure it sucks that it doesn't have the nifty one bullet per animation thing but frankly I'll take a gun that works over a gun that has a wonky reload animation any day. I never used revolvers in New Vegas using these types of animations specifically because they'd just fucking break sometimes. It's just a reload animation. It's completely trivial.

[QUOTE=ClarkWasHere;50588313]I bet this is how the game developers' meeting went:[/QUOTE] Pictured: All the useless / "artsy" lights I pulled out of the opening Cryogenic room. [img]https://i.gyazo.com/8bb317f65922a0bbf22693bfa0ebf6f2.png[/img] They'd have shit that was tripled up to increase intensity when 1 can easily do the job.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50588344]Reloading bullet per bullet was an unstable mess in previous attempts and considering this game has issues with swapping guns while transitioning between outdoor cells my first guess is that they considered not breaking the gun more important than a trivial reload animation. Yeah sure it sucks that it doesn't have the nifty one bullet per animation thing but frankly I'll take a gun that works over a gun that has a wonky reload animation any day. I never used revolvers in New Vegas using these types of animations specifically because they'd just fucking break sometimes. It's just a reload animation. It's completely trivial.[/QUOTE] Or you know, they could've designed a different weapon that agrees with the current system instead of half-assing it.

[QUOTE=DeEz;50588406]Or you know, they could've designed a different weapon that agrees with the current system instead of half-assing it.[/QUOTE] I really don't think a slight discrepancy in the reload animation is worth scrapping the weapon and replacing it with something else just to fix that one thing. Might as well toss out half of the guns in that game then because most of the reload animations have problems. It's almost like shooting the gun is more important than reloading it. It's almost like offering a fun catalog of weapons is more important than gimping your creativity for the sake of realism in completely trivial aspects.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50588419]I really don't think a slight discrepancy in the reload animation is worth scrapping the weapon and replacing it with something else just to fix that one thing. Might as well toss out half of the guns in that game then because most of the reload animations have problems. It's almost like shooting the gun is more important than reloading it. It's almost like offering a fun catalog of weapons is more important than gimping your creativity for the sake of realism in completely trivial aspects.[/QUOTE] What other guns have reload problems?

[QUOTE=DeEz;50588440]What other guns have reload problems?[/QUOTE] Weapons only have one reload animation regardless of whether there's a round left in the chamber, meaning most of the weapons will default to a reload fitting for a completely empty weapon. The combat rifle, combat shotgun and hunting rifle will all have the character move the bolt back after reloading to load a new bullet in the chamber, even if there is already one in there. The deliverer does the same thing. The 10mm pistol has the slide magically move back and lock itself so the animation can have the character slide it back into place after a reload. The assault rifle however does not have any bolt related animation and the player just jams in a new magazine even if the previous one was completely empty with no bullet in the chamber, meaning the weapon would not be able to fire at all. It's fairly visible for the lever action rifle because you physically load in the bullets but [I]every ballistic gun[/I] short of the pipe bolt action gun has the same problem. It's completely trivial and unworthy of attention.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50588419]I really don't think a slight discrepancy in the reload animation is worth scrapping the weapon and replacing it with something else just to fix that one thing. Might as well toss out half of the guns in that game then because most of the reload animations have problems. It's almost like shooting the gun is more important than reloading it. It's almost like offering a fun catalog of weapons is more important than gimping your creativity for the sake of realism in completely trivial aspects.[/QUOTE] ... Are you reading what you write? Can't bethesda make good-quality weapon with some sort of realism, like maybe having the SS reload ONE bullet if he fired ONE bullet???? Reloading a gun is a question of life and death in an FPS, it's a period where the protagonist is weaker than any enemy, and i think it is as important as shooting it. The fuck, if we follow your logic, let's just remove reloading and just makes it one continuous fire!

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50588419]I really don't think a slight discrepancy in the reload animation is worth scrapping the weapon and replacing it with something else just to fix that one thing. Might as well toss out half of the guns in that game then because most of the reload animations have problems. It's almost like shooting the gun is more important than reloading it. It's almost like offering a fun catalog of weapons is more important than gimping your creativity for the sake of realism in completely trivial aspects.[/QUOTE] If shooting is more important than reloading then why can't I shoot after loading one bullet [editline]a[/editline] On another topic, Nuka World had better introduce Pump Shotguns because I love the feel of those over semi-auto ones.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50588493]It's completely trivial and unworthy of attention.[/QUOTE] In your opinion, obviously it bugged other people because your weapon is quite prominent in a first person shooter.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50588493]Weapons only have one reload animation regardless of whether there's a round left in the chamber, meaning most of the weapons will default to a reload fitting for a completely empty weapon. The combat rifle, combat shotgun and hunting rifle will all have the character move the bolt back after reloading to load a new bullet in the chamber, even if there is already one in there. The deliverer does the same thing. The 10mm pistol has the slide magically move back and lock itself so the animation can have the character slide it back into place after a reload. The assault rifle however does not have any bolt related animation and the player just jams in a new magazine even if the previous one was completely empty with no bullet in the chamber, meaning the weapon would not be able to fire at all. It's fairly visible for the lever action rifle because you physically load in the bullets but [I]every ballistic gun[/I] short of the pipe bolt action gun has the same problem. It's completely trivial and unworthy of attention.[/QUOTE] Ah. Yes I would agree that at least those were trivial, I didn't even notice it before. However the lever action is kind of finicky in combat because of the long reload animation (even when I might only need one bullet), which is why I don't think it's as unimportant. The laser musket basically already has the kind of reload behavior that the lever action needs, so I guess I'll just have to fix it myself when hkxpack is ready.

I still don't know why they didn't just give us another Henry rifle style Lever Action Rifle like from Fallout 3, it's reloading animation was pretty on point in regards to the actual weapon and worked well with the canned animations.

I find highly unlikely that bethesda can craft big, interesting worlds to explore, that they can fix a gunplay system that was crap and turn it into something fun to play with, but they can't bother to fix a single reload animation for a gun. And there's no way "people wouldn't notice it anyway" because shooting stuff is basically half of what you do in Fallout 4 and everyone and their mothers complained about the lever action animation since Far Harbour came out On another note i'm replaying the NV DLC on the xbox one at low level and damn i forgot how good and atmospheric Dead Money was. And then i died to a bullshit speaker. Some things never change.

The technicality of the reload is weird enough and I'm not sure if I care all that much about that but what really bothers me is the reload and cycling animations themselves. I expected the classic exaggerated kinds of motions that most games have but fo4 opts for something a little different and it just doesn't look as cool as I thought it would be.

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;50588644]I find highly unlikely that bethesda can craft big, interesting worlds to explore, that they can fix a gunplay system that was crap and turn it into something fun to play with, but they can't bother to fix a single reload animation for a gun. And there's no way "people wouldn't notice it anyway" because shooting stuff is basically half of what you do in Fallout 4 and everyone and their mothers complained about the lever action animation since Far Harbour came out.[/QUOTE] This is why I have to immediately discard the notion of the borked lever action reload being a concession so the gun works, or that the reload is 'trivial'. It just comes off as amateurish when a game this big struggles with a reload animation that loads one bullet at a time. Especially when predecessor games pulled this off, albeit buggy. The advance in engine should really have allowed them to fix this, and I'm 99% sure that a modder eventually will, too. [editline]25th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;50588493]Weapons only have one reload animation regardless of whether there's a round left in the chamber, meaning most of the weapons will default to a reload fitting for a completely empty weapon. [/QUOTE] This doesn't seem like nearly as big of a problem as the lever action rifle's reload problems. In fact, most of those problems relate to having actual gun knowledge, which if you do, [I]all[/I] of Fallout 4's guns are a mistake. The lever action rifle's reload animation is pretty immediately identifiable to anyone, regardless of gun knowledge. The average player will see the player manually load in 5 bullets, no more, no less, and wonder why he can't stop that reload sooner.

Can anyone recommend a mod that makes fo4's colors look less washed out? Or any mods in general that help the game look less shitty.

[QUOTE=Katatonic717;50583163]There's an interior fog remover mod that exists on it's own though[/QUOTE] It's a couple of pages later, but I thought I'd bring attention to [url=http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/15552/?]this mod[/url]. I haven't tried it out personally yet, so I can't say how well it works, but it definitely looks like it might be a better way to handle removing interior fog. There's also optional file that replicates the exterior weather effects from FogOut (which was part of the discussion of the post I quoted), but without any of the interior fog changes if people use that.

[QUOTE=VX-79;50589054]Can anyone recommend a mod that makes fo4's colors look less washed out? Or any mods in general that help the game look less shitty.[/QUOTE] You could try downloading ReShade and fiddling with it. It's what I've done for multiple games (Dragon's Dogma grayish forest simulator included). Applying an extremely subtle sharpening filter is also nifty to counteract the game's blurry shaders.

[QUOTE=VX-79;50589054]Can anyone recommend a mod that makes fo4's colors look less washed out? Or any mods in general that help the game look less shitty.[/QUOTE] I have [URL="http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1564/?"]A Little Bit of Green[/URL] installed, adds a nice bit of color back into the commonwealth.

[QUOTE=VX-79;50589054]Can anyone recommend a mod that makes fo4's colors look less washed out? Or any mods in general that help the game look less shitty.[/QUOTE] I like [URL="http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12137/?"]Realistic Roads[/URL] so the roads are actually made with tar and not concrete

Pretty interesting how some modders are now making console-exclusive mods that aren't available on the PC. :v:

[QUOTE=LolzMan1325;50589906]I like [URL="http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12137/?"]Realistic Roads[/URL] so the roads are actually made with tar and not concrete[/QUOTE] I'd agree but Massachusetts roads in winter authentically are no longer black, but rather a dirty gray from all the salt that gets put down. It's not that far of a stretch that salt decay + 200 or so years would lead to the roads looking as washed out as they do in vanilla FO4.

[QUOTE=LolzMan1325;50589906]I like [URL="http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12137/?"]Realistic Roads[/URL] so the roads are actually made with tar and not concrete[/QUOTE] Wouldn't it make more sense for their roads to be concrete rather than tar, as tar = petrochemicals which were rapidly becoming scarce prior to the end?

holy shit my legendary explosive shotgun tears through mirelurks like a hot knife on butter, i mean hell it tears through most things but mirelurks are probably the most frustrating enemy to fight

[QUOTE=Blitzkreig;50590012]I'd agree but Massachusetts roads in winter authentically are no longer black, but rather a dirty gray from all the salt that gets put down. It's not that far of a stretch that salt decay + 200 or so years would lead to the roads looking as washed out as they do in vanilla FO4.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ElectricSquid;50590042]Wouldn't it make more sense for their roads to be concrete rather than tar, as tar = petrochemicals which were rapidly becoming scarce prior to the end?[/QUOTE] oh well uh i guess i just like the roads darker then

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50588344]Reloading bullet per bullet was an unstable mess in previous attempts and considering this game has issues with swapping guns while transitioning between outdoor cells [B]my first guess is that they considered not breaking the gun more important than a trivial reload animation.[/B] Yeah sure it sucks that it doesn't have the nifty one bullet per animation thing but frankly I'll take a gun that works over a gun that has a wonky reload animation any day. I never used revolvers in New Vegas using these types of animations specifically because they'd just fucking break sometimes. It's just a reload animation. It's completely trivial.[/QUOTE] Bethesda can't fix a bug in their own engine that they own? Since when were there only two choices? A.) Break the guns. B.) Don't use the feature.