[QUOTE=.Vel;50643824]It's that they chose to make 4 settlement based dlc instead of dlc with new lands like far harbor and nuka world. I personally got the season pass expecting a lot more full fledged new land dlc to come out, and i'm sure others did too.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't consider Automatron to be settlement focused, it has implementation with them but you can play it as a whole and not touch settlements all the same.
Considering the time frame of the settlement DLC releases I think it's obvious these were made in their off time [I]as[/I] they were working on the larger land DLCs we got and are still getting.
They're obviously not a replacement for a larger land DLC, they're just fairly efficient padding in waiting of the DLC they are still working on.
[QUOTE=Katatonic717;50643841]I was under the impression there would be 3 sets of 3 DLCs instead of 2.
One workshop pack (or other small thing), one quest type thing with goodies and stuff, and one big ass one.
There was some thing on bethesda's blog implying there would be 3 sets like that, not 2. I can't seem to find it though.[/QUOTE]
Todd Howard confirmed Nuka World is the last.
[editline]4th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50643844]I wouldn't consider Automatron to be settlement focused, it has implementation with them but you can play it as a whole and not touch settlements all the same.
Considering the time frame of the settlement DLC releases I think it's obvious these were made in their off time [I]as[/I] they were working on the larger land DLCs we got and are still getting.
They're obviously not a replacement for a larger land DLC, they're just fairly efficient padding in waiting of the DLC they are still working on.[/QUOTE]
They could have made DLC to add content to the weaker areas like available weapons in the same time frame they make these settlement DLCs though.
Considering the amount of weapon mods out there, i don't mind the fact that there are a couple of dlc packs dedicated to the workshop.
[QUOTE=plunger435;50643845]Todd Howard confirmed Nuka World is the last.[/QUOTE]
Uhm, ok?
I meant I remember reading that and then was disappointed there was only 2 packs
[QUOTE=KennyAwsum;50643857]Considering the amount of weapon mods out there, i don't mind the fact that there are a couple of dlc packs dedicated to the workshop.[/QUOTE]
You can say the same thing about the workshop DLC too. Content from all three settlement DLCs was already made by the community before their releases. Including player vaults to build, gear racks, extra placeables.
Personally I just hope Nuka World (and maybe the Vault one) add new weapon types so modders have a base to work from.
Seriously Bethesda, why have you no love for pump action shotguns?
[QUOTE=Katatonic717;50643807]Wasnt that update to the NCR armor supposed to have been released? I can't seem to find it anyplace.
Was it delayed?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=LolzMan1325;50643281][URL="http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/9034/?tab=2&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout4%2Fajax%2Fmodfiles%2F%3Fid%3D9034&pUp=1"]version 0.3.0 of the ranger armor is out[/URL][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Cor Angars;50643717]Isn't this the twat who ragequitted and deleted all his mods because people actually reported bugs to him instead of showering him in praises and sucking his dick?
Or is it someone else since he didn't actually make the models and someone else implanted them into the game?[/QUOTE]
That was Unoctium, he's the one who impliments the models DogtoothCG creates, he was feeling disenfranchised with modding for some reason that I can't remember off the top of my head and was threatening to remove the NCR Armour and Enclave power Armour entirely from the Nexus, I think it had something to do with how buggy the Enclave Power Armour was in it's latest release or something and people were reporting those bugs, [I]significantly[/I], the community and DogtoothCG talked him out of it.
Weapons are actually the one thing I'd consider the modding community better at doing than Bethesda under most circumstances whereas settlement mods have a tendency to be really haphazardly built, put together from vanilla assets and really buggy.
[QUOTE=jonu67;50643870][url]http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/9034/?[/url]
No but it's a little buggy.
[/QUOTE]
How so?
[QUOTE=plunger435;50643867]You can say the same thing about the workshop DLC too. Content from all three settlement DLCs was already made by the community before their releases. Including player vaults to build, gear racks, extra placeables.[/QUOTE]
And they were usually really unstable stuff that would require a shitton of tempering, would generally look fairly amateurish, and would be a mess to use with other mods due to compatibility concerns.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;50643869]Personally I just hope Nuka World (and maybe the Vault one) add new weapon types so modders have a base to work from.
Seriously Bethesda, why have you no love for pump action shotguns?[/QUOTE]
That's what i'm hoping for. Can't wait for more animations to come out.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50643872]Weapons are actually the one thing I'd consider the modding community better at doing than Bethesda under most circumstances whereas settlement mods have a tendency to be really haphazardly built, put together from vanilla assets and really buggy.[/QUOTE]
You've already described the state of most weapon mods below.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50643881]And they were usually really unstable stuff that would require a shitton of tempering, would generally look fairly amateurish, and would be a mess to use with other mods due to compatibility concerns.[/QUOTE]
The problem with bringing up mods with DLC is what's the point of anything except story DLC of modders can do it?
How are weapon mods unstable ? They're literally just new models and sounds.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50643907]How are weapon mods unstable ? They're literally just new models and sounds.[/QUOTE]
If you're meaning as in crashes the game? I've not found any workshop mods that do that either. If you're talking about looking like shit and not being compatible with other things, that describes weapon mods currently with how many keyword systems are being added. Don't just ignore the last two bullet points.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50643881]And they were usually really unstable stuff that would require a shitton of tempering, [B]would generally look fairly amateurish[/B], and [B]would be a mess to use with other mods due to compatibility concerns.[/B][/QUOTE]
The way animations are made and handled in Fallout 4 also severely limits how much modders can do with weapons as opposed to Bethesda.
A weapon mod cannot literally break the game whereas one settlement mod is enough to send your game in a downward spiral and make your savegame unrecoverable.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50643930]A weapon mod cannot literally break the game whereas one settlement mod is enough to send your game in a downward spiral and make your savegame unrecoverable.[/QUOTE]
Which settlement mods that just add props completely broke your game? Unless you mean stuff like the settlement limit increaser or other completely script based ones that Bethesda hasn't included either way.
[QUOTE=Katatonic717;50643878]How so?[/QUOTE]
Missing textures on the helmet and mask for the desert camo, turning them purple, one of the guys you find in the bank that has the elite riot armour in it has 36 machine guns on him, clipping issues with females, no firing sound for the hunting revolver, the revolver itself also seems to have rather pitiful damage, elite riot armour has weird metalic almost chrome like textures when wet.
Might be more but those are the ones I've encountered, but I'd probably wait until it's patched in a few days before using it.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50643881]And they were usually really unstable stuff that would require a shitton of tempering, would generally look fairly amateurish, and would be a mess to use with other mods due to compatibility concerns.[/QUOTE]
Well of course they're going to look fairly amateurish, there hasn't been THAT long for modders to sink their fingers into the engine, and plenty of great settlement mods have been released already. You're talking like even the best settlement mods are dubious in their ability to not make the game implode itself.
The main thing to me is the less world DLCs we have means less scripting and assets for modders. Settlement DLCs are, I imagine, pretty easy for Bethesda to put out and not hugely game impacting, whereas world DLCs are a caliber above that because they give you new enemy types, weapons, and armor.
The fact that we're only getting two leaves a sour taste in my mouth, because they had a real way to flesh out the important aspects of the main game and instead I feel like it's wasted on settlement junk. Automatron is cool but not on the level of a world DLC, Far Harbor is awesome, if a little overpriced imo, and if Nukaworld isn't stellar to me the DLC for Fallout 4 was a failure.
I'm glad I got the season pass before the price increase for sure.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;50644000]Well of course they're going to look fairly amateurish, there hasn't been THAT long for modders to sink their fingers into the engine, and plenty of great settlement mods have been released already. You're talking like even the best settlement mods are dubious in their ability to not make the game implode itself. [/QUOTE]
I think this is important to note while talking about settlement mods, especially in comparison to what's included in workshop DLC. The modding scene is by all accounts still young, but by sheer volume of parts and customizability they've already surpassed what Beth released. The only real thing Beth can bring to the settlement table that mods struggle with is interactive objects, and what they've done with that isn't all that impressive, or beyond a modders capabilities.
The wasteland workshop cages were by no means an extremely polished feature, in fact when I saw how they really worked I thought it was like something a mod would produce. Things like armor and weapon display, and even elevators were around in mods before contraptions came out and I'm sure future workshop DLC features will be surpassed by modders too.
The worst thing about Beth releasing workshop DLC though, is how it breaks and conflicts their already delicate settlement system infrastructure if modded. Honestly, it's easy to sit back and say that Beth shouldn't release workshop DLC and should let the modders do it, but with how shoddy adding settlement mods actually is, it's no wonder Beth is covering their bases by releasing more officially content there. They can't be sure that the average modder is going to be able to successfully use settlement mods.
Ideally, Beth should have fostered a more moddable system for the settlements. Make it more modular, so adding new items in without conflicting with other modded items is easier. That way, they really wouldn't have any excuse to release workshop DLC.
[QUOTE=ClarkWasHere;50642392]Why would bethesda need to get an engine license from id when they own id? :v:[/QUOTE]
Telling you right now this will never happen
Considering their entire workflow literally depends on them using their existing tools, and all their engine programmers are all pretty much focused on gamebyro
It was a big enough deal in their workflow for them to switch from having kit pieces like "CaveCorner01" in Skyrim to the modular kit pieces they use in Fallout 4 (aka "cavecorner01", but split into seperate wall/ceiling/floor sections that can be swapped out or brought into a prefab) that the lead level designer literally based an [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBAM27YbKZg]entire talk pretty much around that.[/url]. Something that has pretty much been a feature in most kit-based engines for over a decade. Hell I remember working with prefabs since Crysis, which isn't even kit-based.
Bethesda works incredibly slow at making changes to their workflow or tech, they pretty much develop in a closed box to the rest of the industry. They are very conservative with how they develop games and aren't likely to make big changes to how they do anything because then they'd have another morrowind on their hands (9+ year development time). All of the leads are obsessed with efficiency in workflow and development to avoid big crunch times, and to avoid issues during development. Which is good... but bad in the sense that there is a certain sense of stagnancy as a result of that. I guess they've found the balance, because their games release infrequently enough to garner lots of hype and interest every time one releases, and they always sell shit loads.
Even if they were to suddenly switch engines, it would be so similar to gamebyro that it likely wouldn't matter. They would never use id tech because entire positions at their studio rely on kit-based editing and their entire workflow that has been established and developed on for a decade in order to produce a big open world game in 3-4 years would have to be replaced.
[QUOTE=KorJax;50644287]Telling you right now this will never happen
Considering their entire workflow literally depends on them using their existing tools, and all their engine programmers are all pretty much focused on gamebyro
It was a big enough deal in their workflow for them to switch from having kit pieces like "CaveCorner01" in Skyrim to the modular kit pieces they use in Fallout 4 (aka "cavecorner01", but split into seperate wall/ceiling/floor sections that can be swapped out or brought into a prefab) that the lead level designer literally based an [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBAM27YbKZg]entire talk pretty much around that.[/url]. Something that has pretty much been a feature in most kit-based engines for over a decade. Hell I remember working with prefabs since Crysis, which isn't even kit-based.
Bethesda works incredibly slow at making changes to their workflow or tech, they pretty much develop in a closed box to the rest of the industry. They are very conservative with how they develop games and aren't likely to make big changes to how they do anything because then they'd have another morrowind on their hands (9+ year development time).
Even if they were to suddenly switch engines, it would be so similar to gamebyro that it likely wouldn't matter. They would never use id tech because entire positions at their studio rely on kit-based editing and their entire workflow that has been established and developed on for a decade in order to produce a big open world game in 3-4 years would have to be replaced.[/QUOTE]
not even mentioning mods and modders
[QUOTE=_Maverick_;50644308]not even mentioning mods and modders[/QUOTE]
Yes, that's obviously a big part too. But tbh a lot of engines are modder friendly. It would be possible to switch to one pretty easily if that was the only concern.
[QUOTE=KorJax;50644287]Telling you right now this will never happen
Considering their entire workflow literally depends on them using their existing tools, and all their engine programmers are all pretty much focused on gamebyro
It was a big enough deal in their workflow for them to switch from having kit pieces like "CaveCorner01" in Skyrim to the modular kit pieces they use in Fallout 4 (aka "cavecorner01", but split into seperate wall/ceiling/floor sections that can be swapped out or brought into a prefab) that the lead level designer literally based an [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBAM27YbKZg]entire talk pretty much around that.[/url]. Something that has pretty much been a feature in most kit-based engines for over a decade. Hell I remember working with prefabs since Crysis, which isn't even kit-based.
Bethesda works incredibly slow at making changes to their workflow or tech, they pretty much develop in a closed box to the rest of the industry. They are very conservative with how they develop games and aren't likely to make big changes to how they do anything because then they'd have another morrowind on their hands (9+ year development time). All of the leads are obsessed with efficiency in workflow and development to avoid big crunch times, and to avoid issues during development. Which is good... but bad in the sense that there is a certain sense of stagnancy as a result of that. I guess they've found the balance, because their games release infrequently enough to garner lots of hype and interest every time one releases, and they always sell shit loads.
Even if they were to suddenly switch engines, it would be so similar to gamebyro that it likely wouldn't matter. They would never use id tech because entire positions at their studio rely on kit-based editing and their entire workflow that has been established and developed on for a decade in order to produce a big open world game in 3-4 years would have to be replaced.[/QUOTE]
No reason to reinvent the wheel when what you got works just fine
Some people might be displeased with them shifting gameplay focus (more action, less rpg) but technically their games have been drastically improving over the years despite the framework and engine being very similar
so what kind of mods (other than mine) got released over this weekend? I'm guessing a fair few decent ones since yesterday was the deadline for the nVidia competition?
[QUOTE=Beacon;50644492]so what kind of mods (other than mine) got released over this weekend? I'm guessing a fair few decent ones since yesterday was the deadline for the nVidia competition?[/QUOTE]
LT_C's rifle was released afaik
The thing that makes Bethesda made addon content better than mods is the framework they can stably establish in their engine. For example, a community modder could have put out a robot building mod, but it likely would have been awkward to manage, probably using a slow custom pop-up interface with not many options, while being a little buggy, and definitely script-heavy. Automatron's official system has no chance of affecting your save state, and is seamlessly integrated into the game while providing a framework for changing NPC appearance from a crafting menu.
Similarly, the most popular settlement building mod, Homemaker, has a ton of options for building and decorating, and while a lot of them work fine, a lot of them don't. For example, most of the lights added by the mod have only one texture set (powered off), but give off a light glow when powered, and the glow isn't properly cast, so that streetlights give off light from beneath the ground, and fluorescent lamps give off light from above the ceiling.
Not to mention Contraptions. We've had some mods to allow the crafting of new weapons and materials, but nothing as robust as the manufacturing system and conveyor belts.
It's the reason so many people buy the DLC, because they know mods will rely on them and the new systems and frameworks they provide. That's why a GRA-type DLC would have been wonderful, because of the new animations it would have provided (Pistol-grip rifle with a non-drum reload? Pump-action? Rifle with foregrip? Grenade launcher?) in order to make new weapon mods. Most weapon mods right now are crippled by relying on the animation set of either the Combat Rifle or Submachine Gun, which require editing the mesh of new models to extend the handguard down to fit inside the player's hand, or have the magazine clip into the well from the side because it's not a drum.
Sure, mods could have given us everything we're getting from Bethesda. But it wouldn't be nearly as polished, expansive, stable, or well-integrated as what they can put out. This is not to invalidate the argument that they could have chosen better DLC themes, but given the option, I'd much rather use vanilla systems that won't bloat my save file or give me persistent bugs or performance hits, every time.
[QUOTE=plunger435;50643937]Which settlement mods that just add props completely broke your game? Unless you mean stuff like the settlement limit increaser or other completely script based ones that Bethesda hasn't included either way.[/QUOTE]
I've had settlement mods that modify the vanilla menus cause some REALLY bad issues.
This is why I try to only install SKE supported settlement mods now, they don't clash with each other and they don't replace vanilla menus.
I'm surprised there wasn't a GRA style DLC for Fallout 4, considering one of the biggest points they featured was the gunplay.
[QUOTE=DChapsfield;50644633]The thing that makes Bethesda made addon content better than mods is the framework they can stably establish in their engine. For example, a community modder could have put out a robot building mod, but it likely would have been awkward to manage, probably using a slow custom pop-up interface with not many options, while being a little buggy, and definitely script-heavy. Automatron's official system has no chance of affecting your save state, and is seamlessly integrated into the game while providing a framework for changing NPC appearance from a crafting menu.
Similarly, the most popular settlement building mod, Homemaker, has a ton of options for building and decorating, and while a lot of them work fine, a lot of them don't. For example, most of the lights added by the mod have only one texture set (powered off), but give off a light glow when powered, and the glow isn't properly cast, so that streetlights give off light from beneath the ground, and fluorescent lamps give off light from above the ceiling.
Not to mention Contraptions. We've had some mods to allow the crafting of new weapons and materials, but nothing as robust as the manufacturing system and conveyor belts.
It's the reason so many people buy the DLC, because they know mods will rely on them and the new systems and frameworks they provide. That's why a GRA-type DLC would have been wonderful, because of the new animations it would have provided (Pistol-grip rifle with a non-drum reload? Pump-action? Rifle with foregrip? Grenade launcher?) in order to make new weapon mods. Most weapon mods right now are crippled by relying on the animation set of either the Combat Rifle or Submachine Gun, which require editing the mesh of new models to extend the handguard down to fit inside the player's hand, or have the magazine clip into the well from the side because it's not a drum.
Sure, mods could have given us everything we're getting from Bethesda. But it wouldn't be nearly as polished, expansive, stable, or well-integrated as what they can put out. This is not to invalidate the argument that they could have chosen better DLC themes, but given the option, I'd much rather use vanilla systems that won't bloat my save file or give me persistent bugs or performance hits, every time.[/QUOTE]
Hopefully over time someone will figure out how to add in custom animation events like they did in 3, NV and Skyrim using ScriptExtender, honestly can't wait till we get some custom weapons that apply an animation framework, like a customisable mod option on the gun to flick between different animation types for it, be great for stuff like the 10mm pistol carbine conversion which looks great in 3rd person but dumb as fuck in first.
Well, speaking of terrible unpolished community made shit, I've finally figured out how to import custom models.
[img_thumb]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/268344597676011533/A16B9FF8A3E7F1BE91D7E59864B562A80ECC41A6/[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/268344597676011063/08BB9DC78DEA0F2BDE12BEFEB6EAA6F626D8EA0C/[/img_thumb]
Textures, on the other hand, will continue to be a bastard for quite some time.
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