[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;50560484]You misunderstand my point. I'm not arguing that it's how it should be - I'm saying that it literally is. The Fallout series has featured rebuilding in the majority of it's previous games and depending on how Beth takes the series, should continue to do so.
I think you're getting confused over all. I'm not saying that Fallout will ever switch themes and outgrow it's post apocalyptic ties. I'm not saying that we should expect towns to start repaving roads and the societies to modernize. That's an issue of adhering to a setting for a franchise's sake, not an issue of writing. But unlike fantasy, the genre and themes Fallout explores don't give way to a lot of stagnation. You can't meaningfully explore the same story of people squatting in a shack and eating dead rats while a hero saves the day over and over again.
Which is why the Fallout series has made a point of including themes of rebuilding. Always. I would personally argue it's one of the core aspects of the series. There's still far too much to explore in that category, and the only reason one would think the 'point' of Fallout is whacky sci-fi fun while everyone dies of horrible living conditions is if they took how Beth handled 3 as an accurate representation of the series.
But it's not an accurate representation of how Beth is handling the series. Fallout 4, while it exacerbated a lot of seperate issues, has taken clear steps back into exploring the themes that Fallout 2 and New Vegas did, even if they're minor and manifest themselves as a settlement minigame at times.
Even if Beth continues down this path of apocalyptic shit aesthetic, I can guarantee you that each Fallout game they release will show more and more signs of rebuilding, unless they go backwards in the timeline.[/QUOTE]
I pretty much agree.
But my original point was that the reason even after 200 years you've got dirt, skeletons, ruins and untouched pre-war locations what part and parcel of the whole post-apocalyptic theme, which I think we also both agree on.
Sure, Beth is focusing more and more on showing you the leftovers of the old world rather than focusing on the actual aftermath, Mad Max/A Boy and His Dog style like the original games (and Wasteland) did. But even when they stop that, and I agree it's getting sillier by the game, it's still probably always going to be post-apocalyptic.
But regardless, since the lore has to keep moving forward and since it obviously makes less and less sense to be that attached to the war centuries after it happened they can't keep this up forever.
I think there will either be a reboot eventually, or they will start making games that take place earlier in the timeline, only in other parts of the continent.
[editline]21st June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Hamaflavian;50560506]Okay, but even in Mad Max there's evidence of social advancement over time. In the Road Warrior there's just the Refinery and Lord Humongous's gang, but has the socially complex Bartertown in Beyond Thunderdome and even later in Fury Road has the hierarchically organized and economically interconnected societies of the Citadel, Gastown and the Bullet Farm. One of the seminal works of post-apocalyptia, a Canticle for Leibowitz, charts humanity's rebuilding after a nuclear war all the way until people have goddamn space ships. I'm sorry, but the notion that post-apocalyptic fiction means that people are eternally doomed to wallow in dirt forever is complete bogus.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but do you honestly think there's a future version of Mad Max where there are traffic cops keeping everyone from driving so fast, and sensible hybrid cars?
Also, a Canticle for Leibowitz is a single novel rather than an ongoing series of stories in the same universe, which is hardly the same. But I would still recommend you try and remember how it actually ended. The part right after the space ships.
The whole point of the novel is that there's an infinite cycle of war constantly throwing humanity back into the middle ages, with nothing ever learned.
Because war, war never changes.
Id like to think i'm pretty outspoken on the subject of humanity rebuilding after the war.
The more progress we make, the more interesting themes we can explore. Bethesda (and any other dev that will ever work on fallout) can only pull the whole [i] and then THIS pre-war thing/character/item/adversary shows up suddenly after 200 years![/i] so many times before it starts to go stale.
It needlessly limits the ideas they can come up with if the world has to stay stagnant and bombed out indefinitely.
The conflict between the legion and NCR is a good example of a concept that could only be explored by progressing the setting- On the one hand, after 200 years, one slice of humanity is successfully attempting to emulate the pre-war world, a society with an economy, democracy and the rule of law- and on the other side a different chunk of humanity is regressing to a might makes right philosophy of brutal conquest, and scarily it's also proving very successful for them- And these very different ideas of how society should be re-forged puts them at odds with each other. [I]That's[/i] fucking interesting, even without the more wacky details about the legion being roman raider cosplay and the NCR having badass rangers with anti-mat rifles.
Plus the whole theme of war never changing would have so much more gravity if some progress was made before human nature inevitably spoiled everything.
Bethesda is the reason we see so much loot, they're looking to make a good action game as well as RPG.
It's why in the original Isometric games there was much less loot in pre-war locations, because it had already been looted.
Lore-wise, they are rebuilding.
[QUOTE=ScumBunny;50560536]I pretty much agree.
But my original point was that the reason even after 200 years you've got dirt, skeletons, ruins and untouched pre-war locations what part and parcel of the whole post-apocalyptic theme, which I think we also both agree on.
Sure, Beth is focusing more and more on showing you the leftovers of the old world rather than focusing on the actual aftermath, Mad Max/A Boy and His Dog style like the original games (and Wasteland) did. But even when they stop that, and I agree it's getting sillier by the game, it's still probably always going to be post-apocalyptic.
But regardless, since the lore has to keep moving forward and since it obviously makes less and less sense to be that attached to the war centuries after it happened they can't keep this up forever.
I think there will either be a reboot eventually, or they will start making games that take place earlier in the timeline, only in other parts of the continent.
[editline]21st June 2016[/editline]
Yeah, but do you honestly think there's a future version of Mad Max where there are traffic cops keeping everyone from driving so fast, and sensible hybrid cars?
Also, a Canticle for Leibowitz is a single novel rather than an ongoing series of stories in the same universe, which is hardly the same. But I would still recommend you try and remember how it actually ended. The part right after the space ships.
The whole point of the novel is that there's an infinite cycle of war constantly throwing humanity back into the middle ages, with nothing ever learned.
Because war, war never changes.[/QUOTE]
Who knows what the future of the Mad Max setting would look like, but traffic cops or not it would certainly look different than how it is right now.
Social and technological change may be continually reset in CfL, but that doesn't nullify the fact that the change did in fact happen. Society and technology being cyclical isn't the same as it being static.
[QUOTE=Hamaflavian;50560621]Who knows what the future of the Mad Max setting would look like, but traffic cops or not it would certainly look different than how it is right now.
Social and technological change may be continually reset in CfL, but that doesn't nullify the fact that the change did in fact happen. Society and technology being cyclical isn't the same as it being static.[/QUOTE]
And again, I never said it's static. We all agree on that. I'm saying that as a genre piece it always has to stay within the genre and everything it involves.
No matter how the world of Mad Max changes, it will always be about dudes in leather fetish gear murdering each other in the desert. Nobody is ever going to get from "rebuilding" to just "building" in that particular world. We're pretty much guaranteed that by the storyteller always implied to be some kind of tribe shaman in Max's future rather than, say, a historian.
[QUOTE=ScumBunny;50560664]And again, I never said it's static. We all agree on that. I'm saying that as a genre piece it always has to stay within the genre and everything it involves.
No matter how the world of Mad Max changes, it will always be about dudes in leather fetish gear murdering each other in the desert. Nobody is ever going to get from "rebuilding" to just "building" in that particular world. We're pretty much guaranteed that by the storyteller always implied to be some kind of tribe shaman in Max's future rather than, say, a historian.[/QUOTE]
Alright, fair enough. Still, I think that within the purview of the post-apocalyptic genre there's plenty subject matter to explore other than just radiation-blasted grime.
Here's an odd thing; my game says I've installed Nuka World for some reason, even though I haven't. I'm pretty sure the Beta keys haven't even been given out. Trying to activate it makes everything go weird, and the image for it keeps being overlaid on top of the other UI. Anyone else had anything like this?
[QUOTE=jonu67;50558078]Lovely, also the [I]one[/I] thing I was looking forward too in Contraptions was manufacturing and it's a bit of a disappointment, it doesn't take from your workshops inventory, you have to load everything in manually. at least as far as I can tell.[/QUOTE]
Vacuum hoppers can take stuff out of your workshop workbench
Not the shared inventory though. But you can do it in your designated scavenging settlement
No footage of it, but this guy talks about his experience with Fallout 4 VR. Moving items is a lot easier. brb buying VR for item placement.
[video]https://youtu.be/IMv4dyV66Dc[/video]
[QUOTE=Tuskin;50560884]No footage of it, but this guy talks about his experience with Fallout 4 VR. Moving items is a lot easier. brb buying VR for item placement.
[video]https://youtu.be/IMv4dyV66Dc[/video][/QUOTE]
You can try combining google cardboard and Intugame VR.
[QUOTE=Tuskin;50560884]No footage of it, but this guy talks about his experience with Fallout 4 VR. Moving items is a lot easier. brb buying VR for item placement.
[video]https://youtu.be/IMv4dyV66Dc[/video][/QUOTE]
I wonder if this means they're going to fix issues associated with fps over 60. In my experience, playing with an fps less than the refresh rate of the VR screen is pretty nauseating.
[QUOTE=DeEz;50561092]I wonder if this means they're going to fix issues associated with fps over 60. In my experience, playing with an fps less than the refresh rate of the VR screen is pretty nauseating.[/QUOTE]
they have to, Vive is 90Hz, so without 90FPS you're going to be getting ill
Neat a mod that basically makes manufacturing less shit
[URL="http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/15429/?"]Manufacturing Extended - Nexus[/URL]
[QUOTE=jonu67;50561700]Neat a mod that basically makes manufacturing less shit
[URL="http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/15429/?"]Manufacturing Extended - Nexus[/URL][/QUOTE]
This is fantastic; I was suprised to see there wasn't anything like the recycler in the DLC.
Now I can break down my Batch File Testers :v:
Lucas Simms vs Anti-Pest Gravel, who would win in a fight and who is the best behatted black guy?
[QUOTE=DiscoInferno;50561964]Lucas Simms vs Anti-Pest Gravel, who would win in a fight and who is the best behatted black guy?[/QUOTE]
Lucas Simms, obviously. He has the Chinese Assault Rifle, which makes the laser musket look like a windup toy.
[QUOTE=DiscoInferno;50561964]Lucas Simms vs Anti-Pest Gravel, who would win in a fight and who is the best behatted black guy?[/QUOTE]
Lucas has more personality and less tolerance for bullshittery.
Infact even synths have more personality than Preston. I want to see a mod that just changes Preston's model to a garbage can with legs that can't attack or do anything but walk.
[QUOTE=spekter;50562283]Lucas has more personality and less tolerance for bullshittery.
Infact even synths have more personality than Preston. I want to see a mod that just changes Preston's model to a garbage can with legs that can't attack or do anything but walk.[/QUOTE]
I want to learn how to do this but I'm useless when it comes to the CK
[QUOTE=spekter;50562283]Infact even synths have more personality than Preston.[/QUOTE]
Even the appliances from The Sink have more personality than Gravy.
[QUOTE=sh4d0w;50562385]Even the appliances from The Sink have more personality than Gravy.[/QUOTE]
Before the personality chips are installed.
edit:
preston, on himself:
[t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Clf9QwwUYAIo7Lb.jpg:large[/t]
Virtually any NPC has more personality than Garvey. Even Fisto and Yes-Man.
We should just replace Garvey with Fisto.
"ANOTHER. SETTLEMENT. REQUIRES. OUR. FISTING."
[QUOTE=sh4d0w;50562385]Even the appliances from The Sink have more personality than Gravy.[/QUOTE]
The appliances of the Sink have more personality than 90% of the cast of Fallout 4.
Hell, they have more personality than 50% of the cast of Fallout: New Vegas.
I keep forcing Percy Garcy to listen to that 'Personality' song but the message never gets through to him.
Now now, Pressed-In-Gravy has a tiny bit of personality.
Like really tiny.
Atom tiny.
So i'm playing through automatron again, and you know the part where you are carrying around a robobrain's head? and it talks to you? your character is the one speaking it's lines, if you go into 3rd person you can see your face flipping out, with your eyebrows twitching and your mouth making really wide "O" shapes trying to match the lines.
[QUOTE=yellowoboe;50562731]Now now, Pressed-In-Gravy has a tiny bit of personality.
Like really tiny.
Atom tiny.[/QUOTE]
Is it because he's secretly a follower of the church of atom
[QUOTE=yellowoboe;50562731]Now now, Pressed-In-Gravy has a tiny bit of personality.
Like really tiny.
Atom tiny.[/QUOTE]
The Minutemen.
[QUOTE=yellowoboe;50562731]Now now, Pressed-In-Gravy has a tiny bit of personality.
Like really tiny.
Atom tiny.[/QUOTE]
babe
I must be the only one here who likes Garvey. I think he's a totally fine character and I don't think he needs to be a bad guy or goofy or rough and tough to have a personality. He's a well meaning young man with a softer personality who joined something he thought would make a difference and after it all has fallen down, is pretty much ready to kill himself.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;50562997]Garvey is okay, I think he would've been a lot better if he was [I]just[/I] a regular companion and not also a damn quest dispenser.[/QUOTE]
Which sucks and I think is honestly why most people hate him, but that is a fault of Beth having poor coding. If it wasn't him, it'd be some other cool companion or character spouting shit at me non-stop.
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