It will be, but not while these things are wired. Having cables sticking off your head severely limits mobility.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;49316309]source?
also that's pretty disappointing, as I'm of the opinion that room-scale stuff is going to be the future of this tech.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3wq6gk/palmer_luckey_confirms_that_cv1_works_in/cxy7mat[/url]
Oh ok yeah found it on reddit:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/7aPl5rU.jpg[/t]
if the plan for CV1+Touch is going to be the much smaller scale standing experiences versus full room stuff, I'm definitely waiting for the Vive. Holodeck or fucking bust.
[editline]14th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=woolio1;49316360]It will be, but not while these things are wired. Having cables sticking off your head severely limits mobility.[/QUOTE]
doesnt seem to be an issue for the hover junkers guys at all
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai4MCmZz28o[/media]
[editline]14th December 2015[/editline]
and thats a game where you're doing a larger amount of ducking, twisting, and generally moving quickly than your average room-scale game, I'd wager
I don't trust it. That's a lot of expensive equipment to be broken by tripping over a cord.
Oh shit yeah, sorry for not mentioning the source.
Anyway, I think he's right to be honest. I think it'll be like the Wii, very fun to play but after a while you just stop using it because it's such a hassle and sometimes you don't want to stand up, swinging your arms around. Sometimes you just want to sit down and experience VR, so I think that room-scale VR is a neat extra just like Palmer says.
[QUOTE=woolio1;49316389]I don't trust it. That's a lot of expensive equipment to be broken by tripping over a cord.[/QUOTE]
I get what you're saying, but you'd think if it was a huge issue you'd be hear developers whining about it.
[editline]14th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Flumbooze;49316397]Oh shit yeah, sorry for not mentioning the source.
Anyway, I think he's right to be honest. I think it'll be like the Wii, very fun to play but after a while you just stop using it because it's such a hassle and sometimes you don't want to stand up, swinging your arms around.[B] Sometimes you just want to sit down and experience VR[/B], so I think that room-scale VR is a neat extra just like Palmer says.[/QUOTE]
its not like the Vive [I]cant[/I] do that stuff though
[editline]14th December 2015[/editline]
I wonder if Ziks has had any problems with cord-tripping while developing Chunks
Developers are going to be a lot more careful, though. They'll have designated spaces, more or less, and usually someone eyeing or managing the cables. You can't compare a small, closed release to a full-scale consumer deployment.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;49316403]I get what you're saying, but you'd think if it was a huge issue you'd be hear developers whining about it.
[editline]14th December 2015[/editline]
its not like the Vive [I]cant[/I] do that stuff though
[editline]14th December 2015[/editline]
I wonder if Ziks has had any problems with cord-tripping while developing Chunks[/QUOTE]
Yeah I know, all I'm saying is these type of active games can't be the main focus of the Vive. If not for the hassle it brings, then for the amount of space it requires. Not everyone has a big enough room (or empty space) and even then a lot of games' worlds will be limited by the size of a small living room. Some find a smart way to get around this, but a lot of games won't have that possibility I fear.
I agree with Timebomb, for me that's the real future of VR
I've had the DK1 and DK2, done the seated experience - that's cool, but I just know that standing and moving around with tracked controllers is going to be the best fucking thing ever
room scale or bust
[QUOTE=Beacon;49316937]I agree with Timebomb, for me that's the real future of VR
I've had the DK1 and DK2, done the seated experience - that's cool, but I just know that standing and moving around with tracked controllers is going to be the best fucking thing ever
room scale or bust[/QUOTE]
But wouldn't the real potential be using it with a Virtuix Omni (or something similar)? Because then you can actually run in a massive world without boundaries, only limited by the game.
[QUOTE=Flumbooze;49316970]But wouldn't the real potential be using it with a Virtuix Omni (or something similar)? Because then you can actually run in a massive world without boundaries, only limited by the game.[/QUOTE]
TBH I feel like it would be very very difficult to get immersed while using something like a Virtuix Omni. It limits your movement too much.
The ability to "move" the space that you have is how it's going to be done for the time being, most likely. This can be accomplished in a bunch of different ways: teleporting and scaling the character like in Chunks, or by having the play area be a physical platform that is movable in game, like in Hover Junkers.
there are obviously other possibilities too:
[t]https://i.imgur.com/Y5XPxY9.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;49317044]TBH I feel like it would be very very difficult to get immersed while using something like a Virtuix Omni. It limits your movement too much.
The ability to "move" the space that you have is how it's going to be done for the time being, most likely. This can be accomplished in a bunch of different ways: teleporting and scaling the character like in Chunks, or by having the play area be a physical platform that is movable in game, like in Hover Junkers.
there are obviously other possibilities too:
[/QUOTE]
Yes but how else would you move around in a game like let's say, Skyrim or GTA? Surely such a large world requires something like the Virtuix Omni to be enjoyable?
And I'm sure they can work on the movement, make it so you're able to crouch, crawl, etc. I mean, all the possibilities you summed up sound pretty immersion-breaking to me, a lot more than the Virtuix Omni. Teleportation, 3rd person, etc... I'd rather be a bit limited in my movement (for a massive open world) than having to deal with all of that.
[QUOTE=Flumbooze;49317189]Yes but how else would you move around in a game like let's say, Skyrim or GTA? Surely such a large world requires something like the Virtuix Omni to be enjoyable?
And I'm sure they can work on the movement, make it so you're able to crouch, crawl, etc. I mean, all the possibilities you summed up sound pretty immersion-breaking to me, a lot more than the Virtuix Omni. Teleportation, 3rd person, etc... I'd rather be a bit limited in my movement (for a massive open world) than having to deal with all of that.[/QUOTE]
For a game like skyrim or GTA I'd say that astral body (as mentioned in that picture) would be the way to go.
the trouble with the Omni is that you really are seriously limited as you what you can do. it lets you walk and crouch, thats about it. bending down to pick things up, lying down, and leaning are out of the question
imagine trying to play something like Robot Repair with an omni:
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4zr5Eq_F5g[/media]
it just wouldn't work.
The other issue with a huge open world game on an omni would simply be the distance you would have to walk to get around. Imagine using an omni to try and traverse a world the size of Liberty City or the Skyrim world, it would take AGES.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;49317333]
The other issue with a huge open world game on an omni would simply be the distance you would have to walk to get around. Imagine using an omni to try and traverse a world the size of Liberty City or the Skyrim world, it would take AGES.[/QUOTE]
You say that like it's a bad thing. Sounds like the best use of an Omni for me, an enormous world you can walk around in for days. Besides, in Liberty City you have cars so no problem there.
"A vile force of darkness has arrived!"
[img]http://horobox.reager.org/u/orkel_1450180574.png[/img]
yeah
[img]http://horobox.reager.org/u/orkel_1450157339.png[/img]
a siege of just 1 goblin bowman - their civ has really fallen on hard times
For me, room scale seems like an absolutely amazing thing. But unless they can find a way to make it work for large scale movement, it's not going to go anywhere. Players will only want to play so many 'stuck in a room' simulators before they tire of it. You can theorize all you want about astral body or other movement methods as much as you want, but until you put those methods into the consumer's hands and have them tested and verified as contributing to a large-scale, compelling experience, it doesn't count for anything.
We basically need a revolution in ODT's. Smaller, faster, more responsive, cheaper. It'll happen eventually.
[QUOTE=Zombii;49318151]For me, room scale seems like an absolutely amazing thing. But unless they can find a way to make it work for large scale movement, it's not going to go anywhere. Players will only want to play so many 'stuck in a room' simulators before they tire of it. You can theorize all you want about astral body or other movement methods as much as you want, but until you put those methods into the consumer's hands and have them tested and verified as contributing to a large-scale, compelling experience, it doesn't count for anything.[/QUOTE]
Well, the exciting part is that we will know which of the current crop of ideas works the best in the next couple of years.
My money is on omnivator and astral body, personally.
[editline]15th December 2015[/editline]
random thought, but why the heck haven't we seen a red-orchestra style tank-themed cockpit simulator yet?
We have tons of aircraft, spaceships, mechs, and cars, but no tanks
what the hell :(
Made a VR game for Ludum Dare:
[img]http://ludumdare.com/compo/wp-content/compo2/511439/18043-shot0-1450144764.png[/img]
[url]http://ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-34/?action=preview&uid=18043[/url]
[url=http://clavusaurus.net/download?file=LinearCrossingVR.zip]Download[/url]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;49317333]For a game like skyrim or GTA I'd say that astral body (as mentioned in that picture) would be the way to go.
the trouble with the Omni is that you really are seriously limited as you what you can do. it lets you walk and crouch, thats about it. bending down to pick things up, lying down, and leaning are out of the question
imagine trying to play something like Robot Repair with an omni:
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4zr5Eq_F5g[/media]
it just wouldn't work. [/QUOTE]
Well yeah, I'm not saying EVERY game should be with the omni, I mean games like Aperture Robot Repair look great and really fun, but I'm sure that there will be a point when people want bigger worlds to explore. Why can't we have both?
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;49317333]
The other issue with a huge open world game on an omni would simply be the distance you would have to walk to get around. Imagine using an omni to try and traverse a world the size of Liberty City or the Skyrim world, it would take AGES.[/QUOTE]
Well first of all, I'd love to wander for days in those games... Besides, both games have vehicles and Skyrim even has fast travel so I doubt that is the biggest issue with these games. I just don't think that astral body is the best way because first of all, I like to play these games in first person most of the time and secondly, I think you would have switch between 1st person and 3rd person waaaaay too much for it to actually be fun. Everytime there's some action, something to do, you'd have to switch back and forth...
But because the omni would be too expensive (at least for me), wouldn't another possibility just be using the joystick on the controller, TOGETHER with room-scaled VR? If you could use the joystick to walk around for longer distances, then as soon as you release it it starts tracking your position in the room, so you can actually walk around while in combat, activate stuff, watch a shop's wares, etc. whenever you want and it wouldn't change the game too much. I think this method works without being too intrusive.
[QUOTE=Flumbooze;49320222]
wouldn't another possibility just be using the joystick on the controller, TOGETHER with room-scaled VR? If you could use the joystick to walk around for longer distances, then as soon as you release it it starts tracking your position in the room, so you can actually walk around while in combat, activate stuff, watch a shop's wares, etc. whenever you want and it wouldn't change the game too much. I think this method works without being too intrusive.[/QUOTE]
IIRC this is what tends to make people motion sick. What you're describing is basically astral body except that you stay in first person the whole time.
The idea behind going 3rd person for long-distance movement in astral body is that it lets you move with the controller (like you suggested) but without getting the player sick.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;49320270]IIRC this is what tends to make people motion sick. What you're describing is basically astral body except that you stay in first person the whole time.
The idea behind going 3rd person for long-distance movement in astral body is that it lets you move with the controller (like you suggested) but without getting the player sick.[/QUOTE]
Even when faster movement (like combat) is controlled with your own body?
Also, now I wonder how those you tubers keep playing GTA in VR for so long...
like Orkel said, what is really needed for what you're describing (without the use of a locomotion crutch like teleportation, omnivator, astral body, etc) is improved ODTs.
I can pretty much guarantee that anything with a harness is going to be awful because it completely ruins the point of a standing experience: that you can move freely within a space and act similarly to how you would outside of VR. Stuff like the harness-free ODT designs that track your movements and move the treadmill accordingly are the best bet, but the tech for that kind of thing is still a ways off, let alone the tech needed to get it into people's homes for a reasonable price.
for now, I [I]think[/I] the current room-scale locomotion ideas are sound enough that the concept of room-scale VR will be able to get off the ground just fine. Like me, I assume you haven't tried any room-scale stuff yet, so its tough to say for sure if it's good or not. But initial indications seem to be that it is absolutely kick ass regardless of the limitations, and I'm willing to invest money in that.
[editline]15th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Flumbooze;49320312]Even when faster movement (like combat) is controlled with your own body?
Also, now I wonder how those you tubers keep playing GTA in VR for so long...[/QUOTE]
That's the idea, yeah. You move your play space around in third person (a-la Edge of Nowhere) but when the shit hits the fan or you want to get a closer look at something, you can "zoom in" to first person and physically act as the character (a-la hover junkers)
[media]https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/676675034681839616[/media]
New tweet from Palmer.
I wonder what it'll be... I guess they're really starting the hype train now, so I'm confident we'll get more info about the release soon!
Getting hyped as hell about the upcoming VR headsets (still don't know if i want the Vive or the Rift), but games like Hover Junkers or Modbox makes me wonder if I'll be able to get the most out of VR without having a big ass room dedicated exclusively to walking around/crouching/leaning. When I tried the DK2 for the first time it was mindblowing, even while sitting on a chair without moving much, but the fact that i won't be able to fully enjoy certain games due to not having enough space to move around kinda sucks.
EDIT: Also, how good would a 770 be for the less graphical intensive VR games/demos? I know it's behind the 970 but I would love to have some VR to play with while I wait for Pascal to arrive.
Just on the movement platforms. Anyone tried this out?
[url]http://cyberith.com/[/url]
[QUOTE=Zombii;49320389][media]https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/676675034681839616[/media]
New tweet from Palmer.[/QUOTE]
looks like it's a climbing game from Crytek
[url]http://www.roadtovr.com/crytek-unveils-new-oculus-exclusive-vr-game-climb/?platform=hootsuite[/url]
[editline]15th December 2015[/editline]
[media]http://youtu.be/2-1ndVF7YOo[/media]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;49316403]I wonder if Ziks has had any problems with cord-tripping while developing Chunks[/QUOTE]
I did for the first few minutes of trying the Vive, but you quickly sort of develop an instinct for where the cable is and where it's safe to walk without feeling for it first. Since that becomes a subconscious mental process it doesn't really take away from the immersion for me. It's still something that needs to be solved eventually though, because I can imagine forgetting about it in games involving faster and more reactive actions.
As for room-scale vs just standing or sitting, I would absolutely want the system that has the best room-scale support. Physically walking around the environment is what completes the immersion for me, although it's hard to describe how cool it is if you haven't tried it.
While we're on the topic of ODT's. I've tried designing one just to see how feasible it would be costs wise.
[img_thumb]https://i.imgur.com/Dq23EER.png[/img_thumb]
The walking surface is 2.5 x 2.5 metres, and it's about 350 mm high. All bearings/wheels and so on calculated to safely allow an 85Kg man to run up to around 15 km/h including jumping full height. The problem is that in an average home the ceiling would be too low to allow you to put your hands up and/or jump unless you're very short. I worked out the estimate cost to make one and it would be minumum £5000. Not anywhere near good enough for home use, but very feasible for VR arcades.
I kinda gave up on it because of 2 biggest reasons, I don't have any experience in robotics and programming so I wouldn't know how to integrate the device with VR. I also worry that using an ODT like this would cause discrepencies in the positional tracking of VR displays which could make you feel sick. And also noise, there's so many moving part's it will always be noisy, especially at high speeds. If any of you do have experience in robotics feel free to hit me up if you're interested.
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