[QUOTE=bitches;47896666][t]http://foxcock.me/web/dump/Phone%20Camera/Camera/figures/IMG_20150405_244149795.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
Morpheus has a quicker response time than dk2 interestingly enough. Unless the specs are lies.
[QUOTE=woolio1;47896664]But a lot of people get presence in the DK2, and that's only got a 75hz refresh rate.
You're naysaying, bitches. We'll let these things play out, and we can pass judgment when we see the product firsthand. Not everything Palmer Luckey says is gospel, I'd wager a lot of what they've been saying has been primarily to put their product in the spotlight. Remember when they were planning to ship a slightly upgraded DK2 as CV1, before the Valve and Facebook things? Before all this talk about "90hz is required for presence," which only started to show up when they realized they could get 90hz OLED panels from Samsung?
Every one of these companies wants to put out the best VR headset, and they want consumers to know that their product is the absolute best on the market. I'm not saying they've lied to us, but I have to wonder what's marketing and what's realistic.[/QUOTE]
I don't remember any presence talk in the DK2 days. I certainly wouldn't call my DK2 presence even in the most ideal scenarios, either.
[editline]7th June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;47896671]How does 60fps feel on it?[/QUOTE]
60fps is a nightmare
DK2 does 75 which only starts to feel good
[editline]7th June 2015[/editline]
60fps will make everyone sick
[editline]7th June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;47896671]Morpheus has a quicker response time than dk2 interestingly enough. Unless the specs are lies.[/QUOTE]
I don't believe the PS4 can output 90+fps with decent graphics. I'm not asking for HD, but things like smooth edges and readable text are important.
[editline]7th June 2015[/editline]
Perhaps they'll announce PS5 soon and ship it with a VR marketing approach.
We'll see when the final hardware releases, dismissing something that you haven't tried and isn't even finalized yet is foolish.
Also are you sure it's the frame rate and not the response time that is causing the motion sickness?
[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;47896690]We'll see when the final hardware releases, dismissing something that you haven't tried and isn't even finalized yet is foolish.
Also are you sure it's the frame rate and not the response time that is causing the motion sickness?[/QUOTE]
both are equally important assuming you mean refresh rate
the point is you need to see it at a high rate
i'm dismissing the console, not the HMD
[QUOTE=bitches;47896673]I don't remember any presence talk in the DK2 days. I certainly wouldn't call my DK2 presence even in the most ideal scenarios, either.
[editline]7th June 2015[/editline]
60fps is a nightmare
DK2 does 75 which only starts to feel good
[editline]7th June 2015[/editline]
60fps will make everyone sick
[editline]7th June 2015[/editline]
I don't believe the PS4 can output 90+fps with decent graphics. I'm not asking for HD, but things like smooth edges and readable text are important.
[editline]7th June 2015[/editline]
Perhaps they'll announce PS5 soon and ship it with a VR marketing approach.[/QUOTE]
Whatever ps4 produces at 120 will still be better than ps3 graphics, do you consider uncharted 3 or killzone 2 at 1080p decent enough for vr?
[QUOTE=bitches;47896673]I don't remember any presence talk in the DK2 days. I certainly wouldn't call my DK2 presence even in the most ideal scenarios, either.
[/QUOTE]
Are you sure about that? [URL="http://www.roadtovr.com/day-one-oculus-rift-dk2-good-ugly-games/"]Are[/URL] [URL="http://tobuyvr.com/oculus-rift-dk2-dk1/"]you[/URL] [URL="https://www.oculus.com/blog/announcing-the-oculus-rift-development-kit-2-dk2/"]really[/URL] [URL="http://www.slashgear.com/oculus-rift-dk2-hands-on-and-first-impressions-19321282/"]sure?[/URL]
Because, if you're sure, you're wrong. People were throwing around "presence" since DK2 was in the closed-doors phases. Before 90hz was on the table, Oculus was saying the main barrier to presence was faster positional and rotational tracking. There were a lot of alternate solutions until the 90hz panels showed up, and then suddenly they were the only thing holding the platform back.
I don't buy that 90hz is required for presence. It might make it more possible, but until we've tried a 90hz headset, I don't think we can say it's the sweet spot yet. There are more hurdles than just framerate. Let's not get caught up in the showroom hype, shall we?
[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;47896697]Whatever ps4 produces at 120 will still be better than ps3 graphics, do you consider uncharted 3 or killzone 2 at 1080p decent enough for vr?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=bitches;47896673]
I don't believe the PS4 can output 90+fps with decent graphics. I'm not asking for HD, but things like smooth edges and readable text are important.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=bitches;47896691]both are equally important assuming you mean refresh rate
the point is you need to see it at a high rate
i'm dismissing the console, not the HMD[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about the time between head movements and when the display updates. In this respect the Morpheus is faster than both dk1 and dk2 according to the current specifications.
Personally, I tried a dk2 demo that was definitely running at 75hz and it looked great and felt spot on, but I didn't feel any presence.
[QUOTE=woolio1;47896698]Are you sure about that? [URL="http://www.roadtovr.com/day-one-oculus-rift-dk2-good-ugly-games/"]Are[/URL] [URL="http://tobuyvr.com/oculus-rift-dk2-dk1/"]you[/URL] [URL="https://www.oculus.com/blog/announcing-the-oculus-rift-development-kit-2-dk2/"]really[/URL] [URL="http://www.slashgear.com/oculus-rift-dk2-hands-on-and-first-impressions-19321282/"]sure?[/URL]
Because, if you're sure, you're wrong. People were throwing around "presence" since DK2 was in the closed-doors phases. Before 90hz was on the table, Oculus was saying the main barrier to presence was faster positional and rotational tracking. There were a lot of alternate solutions until the 90hz panels showed up, and then suddenly they were the only thing holding the platform back.
I don't buy that 90hz is required for presence. It might make it more possible, but until we've tried a 90hz headset, I don't think we can say it's the sweet spot yet. There are more hurdles than just framerate. Let's not get caught up in the showroom hype, shall we?[/QUOTE]
In my personal experience using a DK2 at 75fps, I can guarantee that it isn't enough. So what's your point?
[QUOTE=bitches;47896699]quotes[/QUOTE]
Not sure what that is supposed to mean.
Are you saying that uncharted (originally 720/30) or killzone (originally 720/30) or gran turismo (originally 1280x1080/60)are not acceptable quality graphics for vr, or are you saying that ps4, which is 8-10x stronger than ps3, is not capable of it at 1080/120?
[QUOTE=bitches;47896706]In my personal experience using a DK2 at 75fps, I can guarantee that it isn't enough. So what's your point?[/QUOTE]
I have no idea what my point is. I'm just sort of here, and you're making a big fuss about something, so I felt like jumping in. It's 3AM on a Sunday morning, what else am I going to do?
Anyway, [URL="http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-shares-5-key-ingredients-for-presence-in-virtual-reality/"]this is the first mention of 90hz as a requirement for presence[/URL], as defined by Oculus. It's September 2014, at the Oculus conference. Also note that there are a number of other things on that list, refresh rates are only one of them. It's likely none of the headsets will have presence at launch, since none of them have all five points, as defined by Oculus; even the Crescent Bay falls short.
We can't use Oculus as a yardstick. They've got a dog in the fight, they're not an unbiased source. We shouldn't mistake their marketing for truth.
[QUOTE=bitches;47896706]In my personal experience using a DK2 at 75fps, I can guarantee that it isn't enough. So what's your point?[/QUOTE]
There are a lot of people who say Morpheus, or even weak barely ps3 level cell phones provide amazing presence.. So I'm not sure what to think here. Maybe your standards are higher or you aren't using a good input device, or the dk2s relatively poor input delay compared to Morpheus and Vive, or poor resolution/pixel layout is to blame?
[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;47896747]And there are a lot of people who say Morpheus or even weak ps3 level cell phones provide amazing presence.. So I'm not sure what to think here.[/QUOTE]
I think it might be subjective, but bitches is known for arguing about pretty much anything. As am I. As are we all. It's Facepunch, that's why we're here.
And I'll fight you if you say otherwise.
[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;47896747]There are a lot of people who say Morpheus, or even weak barely ps3 level cell phones provide amazing presence.. So I'm not sure what to think here. Maybe your standards are higher or you aren't using a good input device, or the dk2s relatively poor input delay compared to Morpheus and vive is to blame?[/QUOTE]
If you're actually arguing that phones provide presence, you're not a valid source of any information.
[editline]7th June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;47896718]Not sure what that is supposed to mean.
Are you saying that uncharted (originally 720/30) or killzone (originally 720/30) or gran turismo (originally 1280x1080/60)are not acceptable quality graphics for vr, or are you saying that ps4, which is 8-10x stronger than ps3, is not capable of it at 1080/120?[/QUOTE]
Can you show me any articles about PS4 outputting 120fps with screenshots?
[QUOTE=bitches;47896766]If you're actually arguing that phones provide presence, you're not a valid source of any information.[/QUOTE]
I do want to point out that Oculus says phone VR is "immersive." [URL="https://www.oculus.com/gear-vr/"]On their website. [/URL]
So are they a valid source of any information?
I'm reading that the console can't go over 60, and that they fake it by adding blur between each frame.
[QUOTE=bitches;47896766]If you're actually arguing that phones provide presence, you're not a valid source of any information.
[editline]7th June 2015[/editline]
Can you show me any articles about PS4 outputting 120fps with screenshots?[/QUOTE]
The demo with the robots is native 120, the other demo in the video with the gun is 60fps.
Also I'm not arguing that phones can provide good presence, the people who have tried it seem to believe it does.
[QUOTE=woolio1;47896773]I do want to point out that Oculus says phone VR is "immersive." [URL="https://www.oculus.com/gear-vr/"]On their website. [/URL]
So are they a valid source of any information?[/QUOTE]
Immersive is a buzzword and I'm not sure why you're bothering posting about it. Presence is used buzzingly too, but as you pointed out, Oculus doesn't claim to have it yet.
I think this might be the problem with arguing about speculation and rumor. If nothing's confirmed, what are we arguing over?
[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;47896777]
Also I'm not arguing that phones can provide good presence, the people who have tried it seem to believe it does.[/QUOTE]
This is the core of what I'm getting at. It doesn't matter how good users claim their experience to be if the hardware doesn't match up.
[QUOTE=bitches;47896774]I'm reading that the console can't go over 60, and that they fake it by adding blur between each frame.[/QUOTE]
Um, the HDMI port on the ps4 supports 120@1080p.
Also what you are talking about is not blur, it is the same tech used in oculus headset, asynchronous time warp, it will be used for the 60 fps Morpheus games and presumably the 120fps games as well to improve motion responsiveness.
[editline]7th June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=bitches;47896788]This is the core of what I'm getting at. It doesn't matter how good users claim their experience to be if the hardware doesn't match up.[/QUOTE]
Oh wow.
Here's what I'm thinking. Morpheus, that Razer thing, all the "entry level" headsets will be decent. They won't be great, but they'll get the job done in slightly better-than-DK2 quality. Rift, Vive, those'll be the cream of the crop, full-featured VR headsets. Morpheus and OSVR won't be terrible, but they won't be anything we haven't seen already. Nothing groundbreaking, but leagues better than what we had just a couple years ago.
DK2 is passable. It's not great, but devices built to that standard will work. It has worked. It doesn't deliver presence, but it functions. People have fun with DK2, they'll probably have fun with Morpheus and the rest as well. We'll just have to see. Something could come along and blow everyone else out of the water, or the flagships could be disappointing. Who knows at this point?
In 5 years all these headsets will probably look laughable. But still I can't wait to try vr, any vr!
Where could I test drive a vr headset? I'm dying here. Vr is so extremely interesting.
[QUOTE=CrimsonChin;47896793]Um, the HDMI port on the ps4 supports 120@1080p.
Also what you are talking about is not blur, it is the same tech used in oculus headset, asynchronous time warp, it will be used for the 60 fps Morpheus games and presumably the 120fps games as well to improve motion responsiveness.
[editline]7th June 2015[/editline]
Oh wow.[/QUOTE]
what
the specifications of HDMI have nothing to do with the capability of the console as rendering hardware
also that isn't the same thing
morpheus relies on faking frames to seem past 60, while oculus can natively perform 75+ without this
time warp also doesn't improve user latency
IIRC Sony developed a special interpolation technique to upscale 60Hz to 120Hz without looking like poop. I don't know how true that is though.
[QUOTE=Scot;47897603]IIRC Sony developed a special interpolation technique to upscale 60Hz to 120Hz without looking like poop. I don't know how true that is though.[/QUOTE]
It's basically what Oculus does with timewarping but instead they call it re-projection (which might arguably be the better term).
[QUOTE=bitches;47896950]what
the specifications of HDMI have nothing to do with the capability of the console as rendering hardware
also that isn't the same thing
morpheus relies on faking frames to seem past 60, while oculus can natively perform 75+ without this
time warp also doesn't improve user latency[/QUOTE]
Morpheus games will be either 60fps or 120fps, obviously the 120fps games will have greatly reduced graphics, so they would look closer to a good PS3 game at 1080p, rather than something really fancy like Driveclub or The Order
Here are some impressions if you feel like reading them. It should be informative since you said you don't know much about this headset.
(and also you are making false claims)
[url]http://www.roadtovr.com/sony-2015-morpheus-prototype-gdc-2015-hands-on-preview-the-heist/[/url]
[url]http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/03/03/sony-morpheus-impressions-vr-inches-closer-to-the-living-room.aspx[/url]
[url]http://gizmodo.com/sonys-new-morpheus-is-the-best-vr-headset-yet-1689307606[/url]
[url]http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/gaming/project-morpheus-1235379/review[/url]
[url]http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-hands-on-with-the-near-final-project-morpheus[/url]
[url]http://www.polygon.com/2015/3/3/8145577/sony-project-morpheus-london-heist[/url]
[url]http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/2yad4l/the_big_3_a_comparison_of_htc_valve_vive_oculus/[/url]
Thank god i found work. Now i'll probably be able to afford a PC for rift, and rift itself, ofcourse.
Probably the last gaming pc i'll buy though. Oculus is just the last thing i wanna try at gaming, after that, flight simulations and such are probably the only things i'll rarely play.
[QUOTE=Scot;47897603]IIRC Sony developed a special interpolation technique to upscale 60Hz to 120Hz without looking like poop. I don't know how true that is though.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like some kind of interlace
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