[QUOTE=KorJax;47915427]While I agree (their previous logo wasn't that great) the current logo is still pretty bad. It just looks like it is a mislabeled button on the website, and is totally boring/unmemorable. [/QUOTE]
I was looking at the page searching for the new logo you people mentioned, and was clicking on it thinking it was a "home" button or something.
[QUOTE=Daemon White;47917753]That's exactly why I haven't ditched Oculus yet. I don't know what their specs are currently / officially compared to the Vive. We don't have a solid release price yet either.[/QUOTE]
release price of Vive is going to be substantially more than oculus. They're aiming to produce a 'high end experience' product while oculus is aiming to be 'good' with intent to be [I]accessibly priced[/I] so VR in itself can become mainstream and accessible
I'm wondering how many people will get rift vs vive. I plan on doing professional vr development but I'm tight on funds so it would suck to have to buy both.
[QUOTE=Clavus;47916504]You know, that trackpad looks exactly like those on the Steam controller. Makes me wonder if they've still got some things going with Valve in the background. Could be that they include this simple input by default, but also announce compatibility with the Lighthouse system. That'd be grand.
[editline]9th June 2015[/editline]
I mean, they're not going to set a GTX 970 as min-spec GPU and then ask you to play with a remote would they?[/QUOTE]
as far as I've been told they aren't collaborating, could be some of the people to abrash pulled off of valve. But the latter comment by me is speculation.
It's almost certain the Rift will be my first choice, since I've been on this ride from the very beginning. If the Vive is also good, maybe I'll get one of those used (or months later) just to have a personal comparison.
I like the idea of having to stand (thus preventing you from being plugged in all day). I really don't have the money for it, but I'm going to try to get the Vive.
Wait, does the Vive require standing, or does it work in seated experiences as well? Because I can see that becoming a limitation very quickly, and I'd be really surprised if someone hadn't thought of that.
[QUOTE=woolio1;47918897]Wait, does the Vive require standing, or does it work in seated experiences as well? Because I can see that becoming a limitation very quickly, and I'd be really surprised if someone hadn't thought of that.[/QUOTE]
well the requirement for sub millimeter accuracy is a must, so if one were to sit and have a clear visible view of the beacon then it sounds plausible.
If there's a list of interesting questions that haven't been answered by the press and forums, then I could email one of the people who are working on the devices and see if they reply back, (I have some of their cards).
Now Ben Krasnow left valve hardware to work for google x who tested out experimental controllers for disabled people (which is a seated experience for them) only did it on the side then be apart of any future controller from valve.
[QUOTE=woolio1;47918897]Wait, does the Vive require standing, or does it work in seated experiences as well? Because I can see that becoming a limitation very quickly, and I'd be really surprised if someone hadn't thought of that.[/QUOTE]
It also works seated.
[url]http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/323cpg/ue4_now_has_updated_steamvr_support_provides/[/url]
[QUOTE]The SteamVR SDK has a GetSeatedBoundsInfo() method that "Returns the preferred seated position and front edge of their desk". As expected, a seated experience is something Valve has been thinking of, in addition to the walking around experience we've been hearing about. What is interesting here is the use of the Chaperone system to let you know where your desk bounds are. Don't want to smack your controllers on the desk![/QUOTE]
it would be absurd if it didn't
I hope preorders don't go live tomorrow. All of my money has been spent on my trip to the UK in a couple of weeks.
Preorders in August, pls palmer
As long I can spin around without getting choked it'll go alright.
I wonder if we will see loads of videos people fucking up with VR just like when people managed to throw their wii-motes when Wii came.
[QUOTE=kimr120;47922581]As long I can spin around without getting choked it'll go alright.
I wonder if we will see loads of videos people fucking up with VR just like when people managed to throw their wii-motes when Wii came.[/QUOTE]
clumsy stupid people are inescapable, but ideally the legit oculus experience market isn't going to be a bunch of disorienting roller coasters (like the initial flood of demos back in the day), garbage programming, and people putting the device on with no understanding of what to expect
(1:25)
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odax7F3tWhM[/media]
[QUOTE][t]http://abload.de/img/oculusinput3fus8.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
I'd love this purely for media controls / using trackpad to move windows
needs volume and prev/play/next though
[QUOTE=woolio1;47918897]Wait, does the Vive require standing, or does it work in seated experiences as well? Because I can see that becoming a limitation very quickly, and I'd be really surprised if someone hadn't thought of that.[/QUOTE]
SteamVR supporting the kinds of games that Oculus does is a design question, not a capability one. Oculus Rift supports only a subset of SteamVR's capabilities. As far as I'm aware, there's nothing Oculus Rift can do that SteamVR can't.
The real question is, how many people designing for the SteamVR will design games that could be done just as easily with the Oculus Rift? If you're making a game for the Vive, wouldn't you want to take advantage of the fact that you can stand and walk around? Which in itself also raises a lot of other design questions such as how much space do you assume the player has.
Personally, I'm planning on getting an Oculus for two reasons. One, the games that I care about and plan on using it for, I play at my desk. Two, SteamVR is too much of a commitment and prohibitively inconvenient to set up. I don't have an idealized Kinect living room open space. If I got SteamVR, I'd be restricted to basically the same space I'd use an Oculus Rift and at that point what's the benefit?
[QUOTE=Orkel;47922553]I hope preorders don't go live tomorrow. All of my money has been spent on my trip to the UK in a couple of weeks.
Preorders in August, pls palmer[/QUOTE]
where are you going? come visit and we can go drinking and talk about VR
[QUOTE=Why485;47922647]and at that point what's the point?[/QUOTE]
visual fidelity if they're providing a screen to match the potentially huge price gap, tracking fidelity with all of the nodes, and the controller setup if that sounds interesting.
personally I'd probably end up with oculus for home use, and get a vive for my office. It makes sense for providing VR architectural tours like I do, especially since we've got a VR room*
*long, LONG fucking rant omitted on cost and quality of the bastard
[QUOTE=dai;47922759]visual fidelity if they're providing a screen to match the potentially huge price gap, tracking fidelity with all of the nodes, and the controller setup if that sounds interesting.
personally I'd probably end up with oculus for home use, and get a vive for my office. It makes sense for providing VR architectural tours like I do, especially since we've got a VR room*
*long, LONG fucking rant omitted on cost and quality of the bastard[/QUOTE]
I would be interested in hearing your rant
I have a spare room next year, so a vive is becoming more and more tempting
(that said, I don't have a second PC to power a VR room :( )
I'll write for a bit, heh. I'm sure you guys would love this, forgot I was in the actual oculus thread and not a news article
[QUOTE=Beacon;47922778]
(that said, I don't have a second PC to power a VR room :( )[/QUOTE]
I'm trying to think of some good solutions to this problem because I would like to set up a VR room at some point as well.
Does anyone know how much HDMI/USB cable one can use before it starts to harm performance?
[editline]10th June 2015[/editline]
My thought being that I would set up a VR space in a room adjacent to the one that contains my computer.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;47923088]I'm trying to think of some good solutions to this problem because I would like to set up a VR room at some point as well.
Does anyone know how much HDMI/USB cable one can use before it starts to harm performance?
[editline]10th June 2015[/editline]
My thought being that I would set up a VR space in a room adjacent to the one that contains my computer.[/QUOTE]
mine's on another floor :(
actually, it's directly above... hm, some covert drilling might be in order hahaha
ok here we go. backstory short:
>I'm an arch vis specialist, have been doing 3D render work since forever. Been a modeler for our little firm since 2000, which means I was barely 12.
>an arch firm bought out our company out when they became a huge demand customer of ours. Cut out the middleman for billing and communication. (They only hired my dad at first, leaving me in limbo til I could prove I was actually a major part of our content creation, and the lighting specialist)
>after a year, we were profitable enough to warrant setting up a new Arch Vis division of the company, buying out the remaining wing of the office floor and investing a bunch of money in making it a new business that could in theory break off and become its own thing
>I've always been trying to combine the speed and maneuverability of gaming and architecture visualization, originally importing models into gmod and using a custom gamemode to walk around without any tools or UI or whatever. Rudimentary but functional. Up until this point, architects expect either still renders, or (extremely time consuming for arguably less refined information, and visually awkward) walk-through animations, and I'd wanted a way to grant control to someone to stop and take in the visuals that THEY wanted.
back when the DK1 had come out, I'd been pushing the idea of using it for architectural tours. The premise was simple, you could create an environment, and not only just tour it, but network multiple people in from around the country. You could in theory just buy up a few relatively cheap oculi and ship them to a client to utilize and see the things you make, with no need to visit the office. That in itself would be innovative and set a standard at a time when everyone was like "whoa check out this roller coaster and get motion sick and hate the oculus forever after, yeah woo 3d!".
Several weeks had passed of me showing off the oculus and explaining what we could do (really loved an 'ArchVirutal' house tour, despite some flaws in its walk speed), even learning unity and building up a restaurant from the ground up to tour with. The day I finished that restaurant I get an email, the owner of the arch firm (who's super headstrong and exciteable) apparently talked to some guys at a conference who were showing off this cool new VR tech. It was big and exciting and expensive, so CLEARLY he decided he was going to visit their US office and try out a 'mobile' version of this VR cube thing.
This of course was something I asked for more info about, and got a "oh you'll like it when you see it" patronizing. Nobody told me who the company was and what the new contraption looked like or how it worked, nobody told me the cost, and nobody listened when I said "let's see how it looks before buying anything new".
so, he bought it immediately.
The premise they sold him the particular model of this cube projection VR room system on, was that this was smaller than their normal installed models that they showed him, and collapsible so you can take it to trade shows or whatever. I'll cover why that's hilarious later. He spent (largely out of pocket, not out of business)$200k+ for the cube, and $30k/licence (x3?) for the proprietary 3D software package, which is dismal by the way. It's like if someone with access only to microsoft excel tried recreating UE4. The training material that currently comes with the software for it involve a animating a 2000-era fat flip phone with google-translated korean text, using features that don't exist in the software anymore.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/LSMeEx3.png[/img]
The cube was initially driven by two computers (each running two screens), but because the software is so severely unoptimized, we had to move it to a system running on [b]four[/b] computers total. The simulations, unless you want to code up shaders in C++, all look like something you'd expect from 90's VR. Working with the software, you could run some small baked textures, but it's guaranteed 9 times out of 10 that UVW unwrapped textures will refuse to import into their software correctly. The UI restricts you from looking at the simulation (you know, a viewport of your scene), so everything like placing basic omni-lights to manipulating objects for animations, has to be done with an unmarked unit style that seems inconsistent between every scene. You can, technically, run the simulation in a separate window and perform your settings and manipulations, but the instant you close the simulation it resets EVERYTHING you've done to the point you started the sim. So, you better take notes on what you're doing.
also there's no undo button so that's fun
SO, when we got the cube physically in the office, it turned out the whole thing comes in three gigantic moving boxes, and some parts are just left outside the boxes, which is [i]totally[/i] great for just picking up and taking somewhere. It also takes three full workdays and two construction dudes who install these things for a living to put it together, so, you know, lil' ol' me is gonna pack it up nice and tight in its boxes and throw the three smartcar-sized crates in the back of my car and just kind of haul it to a show whenever needbe, right? Or, it's permanently here now. ok. Oh, and because it's the mobile version, it's small, so the top of the projector walls sit comfy at 6' tall, SO, pretty much everybody has to crouch to see details that exist above shoulder-height.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/qn26YbH.png[/t]
from a legit news article written about my company doing this stuff. You can see the top of the wall up there, for reference.
(The boss's wife decided she was our marketing manager and two vague news interest pieces (one of which not even mentioning our company by name, in an industrial kitchen equipment magazine) are about all she did for exposure.)
Now the bonus of it all is, that it was a newly designed custom framework for it, by a workshop who APPARENTLY doesn't understand structural stability. The projectors were hanging from a thin frame draped across the top from the 3 walls, and very quickly the entire thing began to sag under its own weight, and would wobble with any movement in the cube. This kinda sorta sucks when the projectors, you know, hold the world around you. It was a nightmare and we went through several months of me personally sending schematics to the workshop to fix the damn thing.
beyond the physical issues, it has some of THE cheapest short-throw projectors for the screens, "because it was cost effective". They've burned out several times and we've had to upgrade the whole set of models. The floor's projector is a standard one, but it's also a cheap piece of junk and you have to go through its menu EVERY time you turn it on to tell it to run its 3D mode as frame sequential. Not sure why it won't hold settings but hey fuck you it's cost effective. Same excuse was given for the frame and the quality of the flooring and the fact the projector screens weren't exactly the most reflective and there's a ton of light bleed, that things were cost effective. Man I wish I knew where that 200k went! The boss also bought their [url=http://i.imgur.com/IWMMCY4.png]projector-cart[/url] thing that uses the same short-throw junker, and for good measure a 'bench' monitor/workstation that only works with their software, that can track a pen.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/E2NkZ7s.png[/t]
ok
allegedly we've partnered with their company. This also allegedly means we saved money (????!) under the premise we technically act as a showroom to potential buyers of the hardware. In the past two years, we've done that exactly once, just a few weeks ago. The demo was produced by the software developers themselves to demonstrate how you could show off the interior of some sort of machine. [b]it broke literally every rule I've written regarding not killing your client with VR sickness, and forced me to write new ones[/b]. I'll try and get a video of it, but it was the most incredibly terrible "example of what we can do for you for only several hundred thousand dollars!" I've ever born witness to
at one point they attempted to utilize the zeiss cinemizer + its gyro tracker attachment as an answer to compete with the oculus. Zeiss was ALL excited to be a VR competitor. I mentioned this a long while back, it was like having a 20" computer monitor, but it's hovering 7 feet away and has a resolution of 5xx x 2xx (~cost effective~ mini screens), but is running 1280x720 so nothing is properly visible. It was beyond usable and resembled looking through a really long, narrow kaleidoscope. Also the attachment for the gyro tracker thing was 1: rotated permanently at a 30 degree angle because it attached to the glasses arm, which was angled, and 2: snapped off several times because the cable came out of the heavy end, which was way far away from the point that it attached to the glasses armature, and trying to support its weight even without the tug of a cable draping off of it.
We were, of course, the testbed for this venture, and I ripped into everything wrong with the attempt and told the zeiss guy (visiting at the time) everything he needed to do if he wanted to think about saying anything's an oculus killer. He (understandably) didn't like that and we didn't hear a peep out of them since, though recently somebody thought it'd be a good idea to buy their VR ONE phone-insert headset. I'd say that's a fair compromise.
oh, the cube's company put out their own google cardboard and sent it to us. It has wonderful phrases like "install on your smartphone to access thousands of contents" (there's 3 photo panoramic spheres that work with the stereo setup, everything else is weird customer-made content using free(?) versions of their software and are single fullscreen only), and the phrase 'PEER INTO THE FUTURE' written above the eye holes inside.
so over the past two years now, I've been dealing with this monster while teaching myself (out of a drive for vengeance) to work the oculus and learn what I can about providing the best VR experiences. I picked up a subscription for UE4 when it came out, [i]on my own dime[/i], because nobody wanted to invest in it when we had such [i]wonderful[/i] technology already at our disposal. The added bonus of this thing is finding out first hand (like the above paragraph) all of the wonderful dos and don'ts of VR.
in the past few months, the annual re-purchase of the proprietary software had come up, and apparently my boss had wisened up to the fact that it's not paying for itself. He asked me to figure out some things with unreal and decide if we can live without the proprietary stuff, which unfortunately due to a lack of [i]any time at all forever[/i] (despite it being important to learn things for work, it's not billable and I get yelled at fast for not dredging out cheapo renders on work hours), I never gained the raw knowledge to program a full replacement for the cube software that will interface with it (ideally using only one goddamn computer). We're stuck with it for another year, and as much as I just want to ditch it, the gigantic investment in the technology is a weight I can't just kind of brush off my shoulders, despite never having greenlit an ounce of it.
the boss's son (yeah) was tasked with digging up some knowledge on VR stuff for a talk our design lead was going to have on the future of visualization, and in the process he pulled up a list of 'competitors' and asked some things about what we should be doing to get 'up to speed' with them, given those competitors were relatively new compared to us. 90% of the things were weird third party services or not VR oriented, but one of the two actual companies that were providing real VR content service, was (the way aforementioned) ArchVirtual, who has taken what [i]was[/i] a hobby curiosity during the DK1 days, and turned it into a great service with tons of varied content to show for his time. What a great example to bring up and complain about needing to refocus what we're doing in VR.
Tldr?
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("meme reply" - Orkel))[/highlight]
The TL;DR is idiot old guys in charge of businesses who think they know how the world works in this day and age make instinctual, extremely expensive decisions that cost a huge amount of time, money and man hours. Instinctive thinking that is dangerous when you are too ignorant and old fashioned to adapt to the current standard that everyone else is using, and too sure of yourself to heed all of the people's advice under you. Because how could they know any better than you when they aren't in a seniority position??
(my boss at a bakery did the same exact kind of thing trying to get a dinner service going that was a complete disaster. Dinner service that served lasagna and roasted chicken... at a bakery.)
Damn dai, I can see why that shit gets under your skin. Good luck getting upper-management to wise up.
[editline]11th June 2015[/editline]
Meanwhile, people are having fun with the new Oculus logo.
[img]https://d13yacurqjgara.cloudfront.net/users/326185/screenshots/2100951/oculus-drift.gif[/img]
Oculus Drift.
Cool. The UE4 VR support is fucking great, you pretty much don't have to do anything at all to see how your project looks in VR, cool that they're making it work with more than just the Oculus.
[QUOTE=Why485;47922647]SteamVR supporting the kinds of games that Oculus does is a design question, not a capability one. Oculus Rift supports only a subset of SteamVR's capabilities. As far as I'm aware, there's nothing Oculus Rift can do that SteamVR can't.
The real question is, how many people designing for the SteamVR will design games that could be done just as easily with the Oculus Rift? If you're making a game for the Vive, wouldn't you want to take advantage of the fact that you can stand and walk around? Which in itself also raises a lot of other design questions such as how much space do you assume the player has.
Personally, I'm planning on getting an Oculus for two reasons. One, the games that I care about and plan on using it for, I play at my desk. Two, SteamVR is too much of a commitment and prohibitively inconvenient to set up. I don't have an idealized Kinect living room open space. If I got SteamVR, I'd be restricted to basically the same space I'd use an Oculus Rift and at that point what's the benefit?[/QUOTE]
Hm... Did you ever see Tomorrowland? I want to be able to reenact the pin scene.
[editline]10th June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;47923088]I'm trying to think of some good solutions to this problem because I would like to set up a VR room at some point as well.
Does anyone know how much HDMI/USB cable one can use before it starts to harm performance?
[editline]10th June 2015[/editline]
My thought being that I would set up a VR space in a room adjacent to the one that contains my computer.[/QUOTE]
50 feet before you need to start adding signal boosters.
[editline]10th June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=dai;47923377]The longest story... IN THE WOOOOORLD.[/QUOTE]
Damn. That's... Wow.
I'll be interested to see what you can come up with for archvis in the Rift, though. That's one of the main reasons I've always thought this tech was so interesting, and I can't wait for the day when I can walk into an architect's office and walk through my house before it's even built.
[QUOTE=woolio1;47927208]Hm... Did you ever see Tomorrowland? I want to be able to reenact the pin scene.
[/QUOTE]
woah
virtual reality in virtual reality
this idea is too dangerous; you must be assassinated
[QUOTE=bitches;47927860]woah
virtual reality in virtual reality
this idea is too dangerous; you must be assassinated[/QUOTE]
Can I be assassinated in virtual reality?
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