Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft V4 - We're gonna be RICH! - Games

[QUOTE=Noob4life;49666028]Let us be brutally honest here, this "balanced" state is literally impossible, especially with them shelling out more and faster content. The game's asymmetrical and complex beyond a-counters-b-counters-c, for a game to achieve the "perfect" balance is not feasible. Almost no matter what game you look at, there is always that one thing which is overall more favored than the others, and statistics can tell. Should they be at least attempt to work towards that goal? Totally. But that wouldn't make them more money. This is essentially their 2nd easiest way out.[/QUOTE] I never played the game before Shredder was in every deck, but I'm pretty sure this impossible state was the way four drops were before Shredder blew all of them out of the water and demanded to be in every deck. Yeti, Argus, and Sen'jin were all viable and performed better than one another in different situations.

you can't say "well just look at the current state of the game" because the current state of the game is the result of blizzard severely mishandling balance on all fronts

I hope divine favor gets nerfed in the upcoming patch. I just had a face paladin draw seven card from it

Who knows, maybe they intentionally didn't balance anything because they knew they were going with the new format instead?

[QUOTE=Toyhobo;49665350]look, after a while its going to be too many cards to check [I]everything[/I] and more one turn wombo combos are going to be played in a flavour of the month style and blizzard will be forced to constantly nerf cards one after another.[/QUOTE] Depends on where you decide to strike the balance between quantity and quality. Traditionally, card games pretty much have to sell based on quantity, 'cause people buying cards is pretty much the only source of revenue. So it makes sense that this kind of business models spawns stuff like booster packs (where you may have to wade through a lot of crap to get to the good stuff), regular huge expansions of dozens or 100+ cards, and eventually formats and banlists in an attempt to tame the ever-growing beast. But since it's a digital card game, Hearthstone could have gone a different way entirely. Games like Dota2 for example see actually new content once in a blue moon, but the balance changelogs of the big regular patches are significant enough to make everyone rethink the viability of every game piece and experiment and theorycraft a new metagame. That would require a different type of monetization however, and Valve seems to be the only big player that can pull off the hat trick without involving gameplay elements at all.

[QUOTE=Kljunas;49665339]But this is a digital game. If a card turns out to be unexpectedly OP they can nerf it post-release. They'll have to do that anyway to some extent since Wild is a thing, they won't let it become literally broken.[/QUOTE] Yeah sure you can nerf existing cards, but there are cards that simply can't be nerfed or are extremely limited because of interaction with other cards. Look at Animated Armor, that card would've been an All-Class card if it wasn't for Master of Disguise, they then made it a Class-Specific card for Mage. You can't nerf Animated Armor or Master of Disguise because you'd change the entire soul of card and we don't want that, do we? Look at Warsong Commander for example...

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;49665299]you mean like, by hiring people to just play the game[/QUOTE] Magic the gathering tests sets for YEARS in advance and still accidentally drops degenerate combos. You can't test everything. [QUOTE=Kljunas;49665339]But this is a digital game. If a card turns out to be unexpectedly OP they can nerf it post-release. They'll have to do that anyway to some extent since Wild is a thing, they won't let it become literally broken.[/QUOTE] Yeah, then you become yugioh where you never know what meta card is going to be banned next. Nerfing is an emergency act, because it damages faith in the reliability of cards. I think they'll just let Wild be effectively mtg's Vintage-- which is a really insane format. Games don't last more than a few turns at most.

[QUOTE=MrFlashcat;49666763]Yeah sure you can nerf existing cards, but there are cards that simply can't be nerfed or are extremely limited because of interaction with other cards. Look at Animated Armor, that card would've been an All-Class card if it wasn't for Master of Disguise, they then made it a Class-Specific card for Mage. You can't nerf Animated Armor or Master of Disguise because you'd change the entire soul of card and we don't want that, do we? Look at Warsong Commander for example...[/QUOTE] then turn master of disguise into a 4/5 that only gives stealth for a turn? [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] and/or make it so animated armor loses stealth when its effect triggers? [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Itszutak;49666825]Magic the gathering tests sets for YEARS in advance and still accidentally drops degenerate combos. You can't test everything.[/QUOTE] and when hearthstone comes up with an op combo guess what, you can change it

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;49666845]then turn master of disguise into a 4/5 that only gives stealth for a turn? [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] and/or make it so animated armor loses stealth when its effect triggers? [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] and when hearthstone comes up with an op combo guess what, you can change it[/QUOTE] Magic has been getting boring, mechanically speaking, in the last few sets because of the ever expanding card pool, even in their post-balance "modern" format. All they do now are variations on older mechanics, or incredibly watered down effects that only trigger once or only for one turn. Is that where you want hearthstone to go? It's boring as shit. In your rogue example, you would have to nerf EVERY STEALTH GIVING CARD, past and future. You've just permanently watered down a mechanic. And that will keep happening unless you never toy with new card designs. Your other design, where armor loses stealth when it triggers, is too convoluted to put on a hearthstone card. They want to avoid printing rule books on cards.

[QUOTE=Itszutak;49667103]Magic has been getting boring, mechanically speaking, in the last few sets because of the ever expanding card pool, even in their post-balance "modern" format. All they do now are variations on older mechanics, or incredibly watered down effects that only trigger once or only for one turn. Is that where you want hearthstone to go? It's boring as shit. In your rogue example, you would have to nerf EVERY STEALTH GIVING CARD, past and future. You've just permanently watered down a mechanic. And that will keep happening unless you never toy with new card designs. Your other design, where armor loses stealth when it triggers, is too convoluted to put on a hearthstone card. They want to avoid printing rule books on cards.[/QUOTE] And why on earth is toying with new card designs a-ok but toying with existing designs that are virtually unplayed not?

seems incredibly counter-productive to start reworking older cards retroactively just so they can release new cards when they can just introduce a new format and let the wild op broken no fun shit in their own format.

[QUOTE=Noob4life;49663243] Wild is still part of both ranked and unranked. The only thing majorly affected are tournaments.[/QUOTE] Ahh, now I understand. That's pretty nifty then.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;49667242]And why on earth is toying with new card designs a-ok but toying with existing designs that are virtually unplayed not?[/QUOTE] Because rehashing the same mechanics is boring and risks stagnating the game

[QUOTE=Itszutak;49667288]Because rehashing the same mechanics is boring and risks stagnating the game[/QUOTE] Where's the idea of "rehashing" coming from? Reworking older cards (many of which have no reason to exist, ie Magma Rager) doesn't always mean watering them down while "keeping the soul of the card" which, might I add, isn't always good or necessary

I get the feeling we're using different definitions for a lot of words here because bringing up magma rager seems to be a complete non-sequitur

All I'm advocating for is balancing. Do I think formats a good way to freshen up the game? Yes. Do I think they're the [I]only[/I] way to keep the game from stagnating? No.

[QUOTE=MrFlashcat;49666763]Yeah sure you can nerf existing cards, but there are cards that simply can't be nerfed or are extremely limited because of interaction with other cards. Look at Animated Armor, that card would've been an All-Class card if it wasn't for Master of Disguise, they then made it a Class-Specific card for Mage. You can't nerf Animated Armor or Master of Disguise because you'd change the entire soul of card and we don't want that, do we? Look at Warsong Commander for example...[/QUOTE] Yeah but I don't think they're going to just stop caring about Wild. Even if some new combo similar to Animated Armor + Master of Disguise or Dreadsteed + Warsong was prevented by the format they still won't want to allow it in Wild. Yes Wild is meant to be wild but they can't let it be utterly broken.

Does anyone have any idea when this all actually goes live Like, will it be significantly before the next expansion to get everybody prepared or will it come hand in hand with it

[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;49663273]I am baffled that they're going to [B]remove content from the game that they worked really hard on.[/B] Like dude, can't you just have a "Legacy Adventures" button? This is more silly than "more deck slots is too confusing", jeez.[/QUOTE]Are they actually removing old adventures? I just started looking into all of this, and I'm being overwhelmed. The adventures are my favorite aspect of the game. It's like if they removed raids in WoW for being old and irrelevant. Want to solo Ahn'Qiraj? Too bad, should have been there when it was live.

[QUOTE=simzboy;49668495]Are they actually removing old adventures? I just started looking into all of this, and I'm being overwhelmed. The adventures are my favorite aspect of the game. It's like if they removed raids in WoW for being old and irrelevant. Want to solo Ahn'Qiraj? Too bad, should have been there when it was live.[/QUOTE] if you own the adventure you can keep it and replay it.

It does seem like the one thing EVERYONE can agree, regardless of opinions formats, is that they should keep Naxx playable for new players in some capacity Hopefully they at least take that away from all this; those things deserve to be archived better

playing against more bots on ladder, Zoo this time instead of secret paladin when are Blizzard going to wipe these rats out of the game?

[QUOTE=Mr_Awesome;49668885]if you own the adventure you can keep it and replay it.[/QUOTE]That's good news for me, but horrible news for anyone who wants to experience the adventures after the deadline. I don't know, I think it's ridiculous for them to even do such a thing. I need to take a break. I've been salty ever since I read about it :v:

maybe old adventure rooms could be rare quest rewards

I want to get all the expansions before they go off the market, but it costs £50. I never realised how expensive. I don't have any expansions :( [editline]4th February 2016[/editline] Something tells me that they won't be off the market before forever. I feel like they will do sales, because this is going to be a huge barrier to new players. Only those who already have the expansions are the ones going "Well this isn't so bad heuehuehue" rubbing their P2W mittens together

[QUOTE=Lolkork;49669702] I think they should buff priestess of elune in to healbot level, the game should have good healing in the core set.[/QUOTE] Ive been thinking about that too: Restore 4 health to your hero, when below 15hp, restore 8hp

He activated my Effigy when I had Flamestrike in hand. :v: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/AMk32uF.png[/IMG]

I fucking opened a malganis. Free 4p0 dust i guess

[QUOTE=FreddiRox!;49670076]I want to get all the expansions before they go off the market, but it costs £50. I never realised how expensive. I don't have any expansions :( [editline]4th February 2016[/editline] Something tells me that they won't be off the market before forever. I feel like they will do sales, because this is going to be a huge barrier to new players. Only those who already have the expansions are the ones going "Well this isn't so bad heuehuehue" rubbing their P2W mittens together[/QUOTE] But the introduction of standard changes that considering those cards can't even be used. Making the card pool smaller and easier for new players to get into.

Man I fucking hate playing against Priest. That hero is the only one that is so actively unfun/uninteresting to play against due to his best winning method being waiting for the enemy to play cards and then stealing/destroying them :v Only Frost Mage or Control Warrior really come close to being close to as unfun to play against.