General Nintendo Discussion V5 - The Future of Nintendo - Games

Y'see, I don't get the "cheap knock-off" feeling. Like, I get how it's pretty clear that Retro isn't behind it; it's not as moody and some minor aesthetic details and effects were changed up, but no moreso than Hunters or anything.

So, just how do you get access to the proper demo, just finish a couple rounds of the minigame?

Pretty much. Online, offline, it doesn't matter. After about three or so rounds, the "training" button opens up. That's the FF preview.

Yeah siding with Nidhogg, FF's demo kinda blew and was way too slow and ehhh. Sorry, you can like it but it still feels bad to me.

Speaking of Federation Force, do people really believe that Nintendo will look at the game's failed sales and go "Welp, guess no one wants a Metroid game anymore, time to shelve this franchise"? I think they've made it pretty clear they know why fans are outraged and have been trying to quell it ever since- from releasing this demo to devoting a couple minutes to a recent american nintendirect (not the japanese one) to say "Hey we know y'all are pissed at us so here's the creator to try and explain why we're making this game." I am 100% sure we will see a Metroid game on the NX, maybe not right away, but definitely within a couple years of it's lifespan (if things go well). This goes with Star Fox and other games with less-than-popular games- they're not gonna wipe the floor with these series just because they didn't sell well, but realize why they failed and try to correct it. Combine that with new blood taking the reigns on certain things, and we'll be seeing tons of new stuff with old franchises on the NX.

While I agree 'back to the drawing board' is a better result than 'shelved indefinitely', I feel part of the worry that fans feel is that we're bound to get 'back to the drawing board... for the 3rd time in 15 years'. Other M didn't work, so they didn't do too much with Metroid for a while and eventually went on to make Federation Force. Which also doesn't seem to be very popular, and is only coming out 6 years after the last Metroid game. Will people give enough of a damn about Metroid in 2022 to pick up a new game, even if it's good? I'm not a Metroid fan, but if this sort of thing happened to a franchise I loved I'd find it very tiring emotionally.

Yeah guys, let's not be worried, Metroid will be fine. I mean Nintendo wouldn't just permanently shelf an IP if it doesn't sell well, right? I mean F-Zero is f- Oh. [I]Oh.[/I]

[QUOTE=Kegan;50815552]Yeah guys, let's not be worried, Metroid will be fine. I mean Nintendo wouldn't just permanently shelf an IP if it doesn't sell well, right? I mean F-Zero is f- Oh. [I]Oh.[/I][/QUOTE] They've addressed interest in a new F-Zero, though. Kid Icarus however :frown:

[QUOTE=Grandzeit;50815559]They've addressed interest in a new F-Zero, though. Kid Icarus however :frown:[/QUOTE] We got kid Icarus uprising in 2012 tho When did the last F-Zero game come out?

[QUOTE=Nintendo-Guy;50815565]We got kid Icarus uprising in 2012 tho When did the last F-Zero game come out?[/QUOTE] And the next one will probably be out in 2037. I believe there was a GBA F-Zero in 2004. We did get Fast Racing NEO 8 months ago, though.

[QUOTE=Nintendo-Guy;50815565]When did the last F-Zero game come out?[/QUOTE] 13. Fucking. [URL="https://youtu.be/NZrFJhPlI2w?t=78"]Years.[/URL]

[QUOTE=ElderLolz;50815724]Holy shit, better make a new Kid Icarus game instead am I right[/QUOTE] There was a 19-year space between KI: OMaM and Uprising, and the series has not seen nearly as many games as F-Zero, which has had talks about a new installment not too long ago, as well as a few recent spiritual successors. Meanwhile Sakurai himself said we're probably not gonna get another Kid Icarus for another 25 fucking years. :goodjob:

people keep saying that but sales of the series in general show that, no, people probably wouldn't buy it' close to 3 million for the original, barely breaking 1 million for the n64 sequel, ditto for the GBA launch title. and then every game after didn't break a million. there's not even any info for sales of GX outside of vgchartz (which has been known to be unreliable) but sales for that don't break 700k. and then the two other gba sequels didn't even reach 100k the whole "innovation isn't needed" narrative is wrong and dumb and given the series' performance and reputation for being difficult, with rules that set it apart from other games, it's easy to see why the games don't do well. the series [I]does[/I] need a shake up. online mp is not the answer that will solve that problem. it's a fun bonus but it's not something that will solve the perception of difficulty. the tracks and game are designed with speed and playing dirty in mind, with lots of shortcuts and physics exploits in mind and and lots of opportunities to fall/push people off a stage. it's a game of skill and if you fuck up once, that's it. you're out of the race. that's simply not something that's going to be popular with a lot of people. look at CSGO, a game with a reputation for being very much skill based that sold well at launch and was anticipated for a long time as a new iteration of CS that quickly dropped off the map after launch until they added cosmetics. it's popular now, yeah. but it took something else to get it to that point. i'm not saying f-zero needs an economy and cosmetics though. i'm saying that f-zero needs to evolve and have something that will drive people towards it. the whole point of a sequel is that the gameplay constantly evolves as time goes on to begin with by introducing new mechanics or changing things up. f-zero hasn't really done that. the track designs got better and the game got faster, but that's about it.

F-Zero needs to be a system seller; something that says "fuck yeah this is what the [system] can do holy shit". Each main F-Zero game had it push the hardware and processing power of the system, showing what the system could do that other systems couldn't. Unfortunately the Gamecube was the last system that had specs close to its competitors. I also wonder though if sales would get a jump with the Captain's constant rise in popularity because of Smash.

Why are you guys forgetting the Fzero game in Nintendo Land? :v:

Hades makes a joke about how it'll take 20 years for a new Kid Icarus game. Despite the fact he lies all the fucking time during the game and is a troll lord oozing charisma people for some reason decided that one specific line needs to be taken deadly serious. I don't even

I thought sakurai said he didn't want to make a sequel to uprising because he wouldn't be able to top it?

[QUOTE=Sift;50816605]Hades makes a joke about how it'll take 20 years for a new Kid Icarus game. Despite the fact he lies all the fucking time during the game and is a troll lord oozing charisma people for some reason decided that one specific line needs to be taken deadly serious. I don't even[/QUOTE] That joke was a reference to how the previous Kid Icarus game came out 20 years before Uprising. [URL="http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/05/09/no-sequel-for-kid-icarus-uprising"]However, Sakurai also said this after the release:[/URL] [QUOTE]“If by ‘lasting universe’ you mean to ask if there's a sequel, the answer is no.” Sakurai went on to explain that the reason is “because we pushed a lot into the game in order to let people have this short yet deep experience, but the novelty of that would likely grow thin in the next game. For now, my thought is that [B]perhaps we'll see someone else besides me make another Kid Icarus in another 25 years[/B].”[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=BoxinShrimp;50816632]I thought sakurai said he didn't want to make a sequel to uprising because he wouldn't be able to top it?[/QUOTE] Kind of. It would make all the events that took place in KI:U seem insignificant to give it a sequel. There's plenty of room for a prequel or re-imagining of one of the other games however, like Star Fox had.

[QUOTE=Nintendo-Guy;50811231]I've always wanted to try it despite what people seem to say.[/QUOTE] i dont usually get mad but i got mad at other m before the opening cutscene even ended but i decided to reserve judgement for gameplay it did nothing but frustrate me further. as far as i'm concerned, it's non-canon. they completely ruined samus as a character.

[QUOTE=darkzero226;50815854]i'm not saying f-zero needs an economy and cosmetics though. i'm saying that f-zero needs to evolve and have something that will drive people towards it. the whole point of a sequel is that the gameplay constantly evolves as time goes on to begin with by introducing new mechanics or changing things up. f-zero hasn't really done that. the track designs got better and the game got faster, but that's about it.[/QUOTE] What more do you need to evolve aside from adding online play and improving the graphics? You're also not taking into account the downfall Nintendo went through starting with the N64. [editline]2nd August 2016[/editline] F-Zero has 1 amazing thing going with it, and that's how it's a more mature themed game along with Metroid. If Nintendo was competent enough at care-taking them as such, then I believe they'd arguably bring in a wider audience to their consoles. But of course Nintendo has this stigma of marketing franchises like Mario more because that brings in the younger generation, so of course F-Zero and Metroid do terribly.

[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;50818239]What more do you need to evolve aside from adding online play and improving the graphics? You're also not taking into account the downfall Nintendo went through starting with he N64.[/QUOTE] Sure enough, that first bit is exactly the same philosophy Nintendo's post-N64 competitors have had. While no doubt that's proven popular with most gamers, I dislike that way of thinking. Granted, I don't think F-Zero needs to shake things up too much if it were to come back, but better accessibility would be good. I still think we should bring Shin'En on using the FAST Racing NEO engine, albeit with F-Zero's space opera characters instead of the phase-shifting mechanic. Ideally, the lowest difficulty would also be toned down [i]significantly[/i] from either of those (the hardest mode can be as brutal as ever.)

[QUOTE=Grandzeit;50816648]That joke was a reference to how the previous Kid Icarus game came out 20 years before Uprising. [URL="http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/05/09/no-sequel-for-kid-icarus-uprising"]However, Sakurai also said this after the release:[/URL] Kind of. It would make all the events that took place in KI:U seem insignificant to give it a sequel. There's plenty of room for a prequel or re-imagining of one of the other games however, like Star Fox had.[/QUOTE] He could have been making a joke when he said that. That sounds like an attempt at dry humor.

Is Captain Toad worth it for 30€ ?

[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;50818239]What more do you need to evolve aside from adding online play and improving the graphics? You're also not taking into account the downfall Nintendo went through starting with the N64. [editline]2nd August 2016[/editline] F-Zero has 1 amazing thing going with it, and that's how it's a more mature themed game along with Metroid. If Nintendo was competent enough at care-taking them as such, then I believe they'd arguably bring in a wider audience to their consoles. But of course Nintendo has this stigma of marketing franchises like Mario more because that brings in the younger generation, so of course F-Zero and Metroid do terribly.[/QUOTE] reread what i said and think about it more because you clearly didn't understand what i was talking about lol the downfall of nintendo has very little to do with it. if f-zero was as a big a series as people claim it is, it would sell based on name alone. but hey! it doesn't do that! it didn't do it on N64 when the system was more popular in the states, and it didn't do it on gamecube, the "last great nintendo console" where nintendo brought out basically everything. it's time to stop with this narrative that "f-zero will literally sell consoles" because every time someone says anything like that, the game they were talking about doesn't sell very many consoles. and hey, if you really can't think of anything they could possible add or change with a sequel aside from online play and just online play, then hey! that probably means it's not a good idea! nevermind the fact that, as i already stated, f-zero isn't built with a fun multiplayer component in mind. not in a sense where it can work in an online environment and still be fun. local multiplayer with friends vs online multiplayer with strangers is a different experience

For me, I hold F-Zero dear to my heart. That unfortunately makes me biased, and you bring good points darkzero, but for me it's not about the sells or what new can they bring to the series. I just want the series that shaped my childhood back, and I feel like a 13 year hiatus is enough of a wait. I know Nintendo is capable of doing it like they have with other franchises such as Star Fox recently, they just haven't tried yet.

I can see Nintendo lending the F-Zero IP to a third party developer and selling the game as a $15 eShop title. But it's definitely no system seller, even though I love the series it's a very niche title. Honestly it would probably do very well on PC as niche games tend to thrive there, but that will never happen obviously. Nintendo hasn't been able to sell the franchise primarily due to the high skill floor, it's a very hard game and not easy to pick up, with a very unforgiving difficulty. It's not a couch game to play with friends, it's too frantic to put into split-screen and still have visual clarity/framerate to make quick reactions. It might do well as a multiplayer game with rankings, because the type of people who play F-Zero are more skilled and rankings would appeal to that. Hell you could tie cosmetics to car customization and make rankings give you new stuff, then you'd have a core gameplay loop to keep people involved in the game. But the game is too polarizing, it doesn't fit the more modern philosophy of "fun/accessible for all ages" because it's a mature game with high skill needed to do well. It's not Mario Kart where if you're in last you can get a Bullet Bill and race up to 3rd place, and where the tracks generally have walls, railings, etc. except in select places. The boost/health mechanic is very complex compared to collecting coins to go fast or snaking, and even snaking has been getting removed from Mario Kart. If you fall off the track or explode, it's game over, and people don't like sitting out waiting for a match to finish. If you neuter these gameplay mechanics then the game will deter hardcore players. I could see more tie ins to other franchises, or smaller, cheaper titles, but another GX is not really a good possibility unless Nintendo gains a large crowd of competitive players, and even then the type of gameplay attracts a small audience compared to shooters, sports, platformers and RPGs so making money off of it would be tough.

Unless Nintendo does a massive 180 and sprints that direction for a few miles, they're not going to be able to release any niche titles successfully. They have the least popular consoles (not counting the handhelds, of course) and a reputation for copyright striking YouTube videos of their games. Like, Dark Souls released on 2 platforms (with an eventual PC port) and once the popular YouTube channels all picked up on the game's existence, it took right off. Now, if you so much as mention "Dark Souls" everyone in the room knows what the game is. Not to mention that there's a Souls game on every massive platform for easy access and the game's been given out for free on XBL and Steam so that if you're worried about if you'd like this massively popular but still very niche (as far as gameplay goes) game you don't have to risk money on it to find out. It's all about availability. I love the Souls games but if they released a WiiU-exclusive one, I can guarantee you I wouldn't buy a WiiU just to play it.

[QUOTE=gk99;50823740] Like, Dark Souls released on 2 platforms (with an eventual PC port) and once the popular YouTube channels all picked up on the game's existence, it took right off. Now, if you so much as mention "Dark Souls" everyone in the room knows what the game is. Not to mention that there's a Souls game on every massive platform for easy access and the game's been given out for free on XBL and Steam so that if you're worried about if you'd like this massively popular but still very niche (as far as gameplay goes) game you don't have to risk money on it to find out. It's all about availability. I love the Souls games but if they released a WiiU-exclusive one, I can guarantee you I wouldn't buy a WiiU just to play it.[/QUOTE] I mean, outside of "the popular youtube channels" Demon's Souls itself was a huge hit, just from word of mouth. And I find it funny you used souls for the comparison there, how many people do you think got PS4's just for Bloodborne?

[QUOTE=gk99;50823740]Unless Nintendo does a massive 180 and sprints that direction for a few miles, they're not going to be able to release any niche titles successfully. [/QUOTE] oohh yehhh like a tiny version of an NES with 30 games from 30 years ago [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] that is literally sold out in preorders everywhere [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] that seems pretty niche to me

[QUOTE=Rusty100;50824119]oohh yehhh like a tiny version of an NES with 30 games from 30 years ago [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] that is literally sold out in preorders everywhere [editline]4th August 2016[/editline] that seems pretty niche to me[/QUOTE] Its not even available to preorder here. Only amazon uk has i think.