Star Citizen Megathread - Fly FREE thru Dec 14th! Link in OP - Games

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47390486]The fps module was due to drop, well, right about now, but it's been delayed by a week or two, into next month, to give it that extra bit of polish -- and given the rocky ride we've been having on and off since AC1.0 got rushed out the door just a week too early, that's understandable. The planetside module is close behind, which will be the first real step to releasing an active PU -- ArcCorp's Area 18 landing zone and inviting friends into your hangars (which means running the hangar on the cloud instead of a local instance on your machine, as it currently is). AC2.0 is targeted towards the summer, now, June-July, and the first content drop of Squadron 42 (now with 20 missions and 17 hours of content) is for the end of the year, as is the PU alpha. However, there will be frequent regular updates to the released systems during the interim, so it'll be a gradual building, kind of like how Minecraft came together one update at a time instead of nothing for a long time and then a giant leap ahead in one patch. Remember that using boost tells IFCS to throw everything it has into accomplishing your maneuver, so you can be [I]even more[/I] agile than hornets all the time. Learn to fly decoupled (practice in free flight first) and really fuck with them -- the Mustang's thrusters need to be strong enough to stop it, so they can throw the ship around in all directions. Learn your blackout/redout tolerance, too, because the closer you come to the limits of acrobatic maneuvers, the more agile you are compared to a fat, drifting cow of a Hornet, but as soon as you black out, you lose control of your ship and that's a great way to kill yourself against an asteroid. Especially because sharp impacts that themselves may not be fatal/explosion-causing decelerate you, and you can pass out from the G-forces from [B]that[/B], and then you may find yourself waking up just in time to die because your ship's throttle was stuck on while you were passed out and your ship's been rubbing against an asteroid too much. There's definitely a learning curve for flying and dogfighting. I still need to get the hang of flying decoupled.[/QUOTE] I'm now just sitting on prfn.se because I'm bored. We can chat about things and stuff if anyone logs on. I think calling it delayed by a week or two is pretty optimistic :V

Awesome. So what's the scope and scale going to be like? Are they still aiming for that sort of open-universe play that Elite: Dangerous is doing, or is it going to be more focused on the individual modules being separate? Essentially, what I'm asking is if this will allow me to live out my Cowboy Bebop fantasies.

[QUOTE=woolio1;47390499]Awesome. So what's the scope and scale going to be like? Are they still aiming for that sort of open-universe play that Elite: Dangerous is doing, or is it going to be more focused on the individual modules being separate? Essentially, what I'm asking is if this will allow me to live out my Cowboy Bebop fantasies.[/QUOTE] Nothing's changed - They're still making the seamless open-world universe. Hell, my own character is heavily inspired by Jet.

Right now the modules are separate because the glue that ties them together is called the PU, and it's so very in development still. When the PU launches, it's designed to be seamless. "FPS" is going to be what happens when you're not in a control seat of a ship (pilot's chair or another crew station/turret/etc.) and you pull a gun out on people. If anything, the scope and scale have gotten even bigger since whatever point you want to choose as "before".

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47390527]Right now the modules are separate because the glue that ties them together is called the PU, and it's so very in development still. When the PU launches, it's designed to be seamless. "FPS" is going to be what happens when you're not in a control seat of a ship (pilot's chair or another crew station/turret/etc.) and you pull a gun out on people. If anything, the scope and scale have gotten even bigger since whatever point you want to choose as "before".[/QUOTE] Shut up and get on the teamspeak, man. Save me from my boredom D:

[QUOTE=creec;47390176][t]http://a.pomf.se/edaqrj.Png[/t] This is how most matches look like. Super hornet killing everything. [editline]25th March 2015[/editline] In counter strike you can easily beat AWP with a pistol. That must have been worst example you just put there. AWP has a lot of downsides. Super Hornets only downside is price and that is wrong.[/QUOTE] How is that wrong? A BMW is much better than say a 90s volvo, the BMW costs more, is this somehow wrong? Realize you don't NEED to buy a super hornet, you can sit pretty and wait till the game comes out (or try getting it with REC) and buy it in-game, its designed to be a top of the line space superiority fighter, something that is an expensive ship to buy, repair, and maintain, but will be an absolute terror to anyone caught within its sights. Stop getting mad at what is basically a super early alpha build and realize you're playing a really tiny chunk of unfinished game with ships balanced not for arena combat but for an MMO world. The whole 'easily beat an AWP with a pistol' argument can be circled right back at you, put two competitve CSGO players at equal skill level in a 1v1 match, one with the AWP and one with a pistol, and I will bet money that the awp is going to win 9 times out of 10 every time.

If you're trying to get into the flow of dogfighting I highly recommend doing Squadron battles instead of Battle Royale.

[QUOTE=creec;47390053]Am i the only one to think how unfair the hornets are? I know they are expensive, but it shouldn't be a pay 2 win situation[/QUOTE] it's gonna cost more in in-game currency too. it's like purple gear or whatever the hell being better than other stuff in WoW. You put in the time, you get the better gear (at least at dogfighting). Yeah it's a little weird with people paying actual cash for it, but I can't feel too bad about someone paying more having a better dogfighter

[QUOTE=archangel125;47390534]Shut up and get on the teamspeak, man. Save me from my boredom D:[/QUOTE] You have a Steam account, how can you be bored. (You're not even signed into it.)

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47390527]Right now the modules are separate because the glue that ties them together is called the PU, and it's so very in development still. When the PU launches, it's designed to be seamless. "FPS" is going to be what happens when you're not in a control seat of a ship (pilot's chair or another crew station/turret/etc.) and you pull a gun out on people. If anything, the scope and scale have gotten even bigger since whatever point you want to choose as "before".[/QUOTE] That sounds great. If I'm not wrong, I think Elite has similar plans, but they haven't said a lot about them since launch. I'll wait to see how things pan out, but I might end up spending some time on this if it does it first. This is the kind of game I've wanted for a long time.

[QUOTE=ntzu;47390542]How is that wrong? A BMW is much better than say a 90s volvo, the BMW costs more, is this somehow wrong? Realize you don't NEED to buy a super hornet, you can sit pretty and wait till the game comes out (or try getting it with REC) and buy it in-game, its designed to be a top of the line space superiority fighter, something that is an expensive ship to buy, repair, and maintain, but will be an absolute terror to anyone caught within its sights. Stop getting mad at what is basically a super early alpha build and realize you're playing a really tiny chunk of unfinished game with ships balanced not for arena combat but for an MMO world. The whole 'easily beat an AWP with a pistol' argument can be circled right back at you, put two competitve CSGO players at equal skill level in a 1v1 match, one with the AWP and one with a pistol, and I will bet money that the awp is going to win 9 times out of 10 every time.[/QUOTE] anyone with half a brain can see what's wrong with that scoreboard, SHs are fucked and no, this game is not supposed to have vertical progression, not to that degree - this isn't EVE online or a themepark MMO. that is [B]the sole reason[/B] the game is supposed to somehow not be pay2win, despite being able to buy UEC in the PU [editline]25th March 2015[/editline] currently [B]the top #20 worldwide in battle royal are ALL superhornets[/B], baring a couple of gladius abusing the broken mass driver

[QUOTE=krail9;47390638]anyone with half a brain can see what's wrong with that scoreboard, SHs are fucked and no, this game is not supposed to have vertical progression, not to that degree - this isn't EVE online or a themepark MMO. that is [B]the sole reason[/B] the game is supposed to somehow not be pay2win, despite being able to buy UEC in the PU [editline]25th March 2015[/editline] currently [B]the top #20 worldwide in battle royal are ALL superhornets[/B], baring a couple of gladius abusing the broken mass driver[/QUOTE] Because the Super Hornet is categorically supposed to be the best dogfighting ship. What part of that is so hard to get? If that bothers you, earn REC and get a hornet.

[QUOTE=archangel125;47390680]Because the Super Hornet is categorically supposed to be the best dogfighting ship. What part of that is so hard to get? If that bothers you, earn REC and get a hornet.[/QUOTE] ironic you say that since you can't get the damn SH with REC in what universe is it fun to have 1 ship as the be all and end all? there is absolutely no justification to have 1 ship literally an order of magnitude better than other ships, even other ships who's sole purpose is fucking combat I've already said all this before... it can be 'the best' without being literally twice as good in ALL AREAS as any other ship... it literally has no fucking downsides honestly I don't know why I bother... you're flying the damn thing, I'm sure the situation looks really nice from that angle

I've said this time and time again - Skilled pilots in non-Hornet ships can kill [I]most[/I] Hornet pilots. Skilled pilots in a Super Hornet are going to kill skilled pilots not flying the super hornet, because that ship is the king of the ring. The best of the best, the reigning champ. That's exactly as it should be. There's nothing 'broken' or 'fucked' about the SH, it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do - exactly what it's designed to do. It's been nerfed enough already, it doesn't need more. Wait until the PU is out before complaining. [editline]25th March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=krail9;47390743]ironic you say that since you can't get the damn SH with REC [/QUOTE] On this I agree a hundred per cent. If the Super Hornet can't be made available with REC, then at the very least they should add the ball turret to the REC and Pledge store. Until that's done, yeah, it'll be very unfair. [editline]25th March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=krail9;47390743] in what universe is it fun to have 1 ship as the be all and end all? there is absolutely no justification to have 1 ship literally an order of magnitude better than other ships, even other ships who's sole purpose is fucking combat I've already said all this before... it can be 'the best' without being literally twice as good in ALL AREAS as any other ship... it literally has no fucking downsides honestly I don't know why I bother... you're flying the damn thing, I'm sure the situation looks really nice from that angle[/QUOTE] No downsides except the weak-ass thrusters and the fact that it can't change directions on a dime like almost every other ship? They nerfed the Hornet's thrusters AGAIN in 1.1.

Let me boil down the argument here: The SH is bad ship design because it's a ship specialized for combat, being the best at combat in a purely-combat module. In that context, it's horribly broken. And since there's no other context to compare it to, right now that means it's fundamentally broken. That's not a bad thing for the future, necessarily, but it is bad short-term. When it's introduced into the persistent universe, and can't fly further than a few systems or carry any cargo, or generally make any money through anything but piracy, it will be balanced, but it isn't right now. This is one of those cases where everything is working exactly as intended, but the system falls apart because it doesn't have any context to equalize it. In that sense, neither of you are wrong. The ship as it stands, in the context it stands in, is broken and unfair. But, for the overall game, it's perfectly balanced. It might be worth considering, then, a temporary nerf to equalize it in the current module, but restoring it once it has meaningful disadvantages.

[QUOTE=woolio1;47390784]Let me boil down the argument here: The SH is bad ship design because it's a ship specialized for combat, being the best at combat in a purely-combat module. In that context, it's horribly broken. And since there's no other context to compare it to, right now that means it's fundamentally broken. That's not a bad thing for the future, necessarily, but it is bad short-term. When it's introduced into the persistent universe, and can't fly further than a few systems or carry any cargo, or generally make any money through anything but piracy, it will be balanced, but it isn't right now. This is one of those cases where everything is working exactly as intended, but the system falls apart because it doesn't have any context to equalize it. In that sense, neither of you are wrong. The ship as it stands, in the context it stands in, is broken and unfair. But, for the overall game, it's perfectly balanced. It might be worth considering, then, a temporary nerf to equalize it in the current module, but restoring it once it has meaningful disadvantages.[/QUOTE] This is the point I wanted to make. Thank you. Krail and I have had this conversation before.

[QUOTE=krail9;47390638]anyone with half a brain can see what's wrong with that scoreboard, SHs are fucked and no, this game is not supposed to have vertical progression, not to that degree - this isn't EVE online or a themepark MMO.[/QUOTE] Any source on this? As far as I know the vision of Chris Roberts was that this was to be a 'life in space' simulator, not a 'make all battles fair' simulator. It was specifically stated many times, and is readily apparent in how the ship attachments work, that you can UPGRADE your ship and go from civilian grade equipment up to near-military grade equipment which likely would give you a large advantage over someone with a fresh ship. Its meant to be a simulation of life in space and all the hardships and wondrous things that come with it, including the very realistic fact of life in which fights usually aren't fair, and the side with superior technology, firepower, and numbers will have a huge advantage over the group of fresh pilots still in their auroras. They said things like going to the ends of the galaxy to find a legendary weapons craftsman to get the best laser gun around would definitely exist, if that isn't vertical progression then I don't know what is.

The "not a vertical progression" sentiments stem from the fact that in Freelancer you can damn well get through the game with your starting ship without ever going to a bigger hull. In Star Citizen, your Aurora MR should be all that you need -- if your goals are scaled to the achievements possible in an Aurora (and this isn't selling it short--we don't know what it'll be capable of in the full PU). As I've said before, even an Aurora pimped out to be the most minmaxed miner it can be is not going to outproduce an Orion. But it's not a case of, you will start in an Aurora and job 1 is to get the fuck into a better ship, and constantly keep your eyes on your wallet until it's fat enough to upgrade to the next biggest ship until you're flying a Javelin around. (The growing crew count alone makes this strategy risky and after a certain point flat-out dumb if you try and pay NPCs to do everything instead of bring on real players for crew.) In the PU, the Aurora would rightfully want to run away from the SH unless the SH pilot is a serious dunce, but the Aurora's also capable of so much that the SH isn't. In that sense, the Aurora to SH power difference is not a vertical progression situation unless you are strictly looking at 1v1 combat, which is not the only activity in Star Citizen. In other words, it's woolio's encapsulation above, phrased differently.

[QUOTE=archangel125;47390748]I've said this time and time again - Skilled pilots in non-Hornet ships can kill [I]most[/I] Hornet pilots. Skilled pilots in a Super Hornet are going to kill skilled pilots not flying the super hornet, because that ship is the king of the ring. The best of the best, the reigning champ. That's exactly as it should be.[/QUOTE] the problem is that unskilled pilots in a super hornet kill skilled pilots in other ships you keep returning to this, and now with woolio... I know it's "THE BEST!!!!1", I don't know how I can make it any clearer - I get it, hornet is the king of the sandbox, woo go paying for power and all that! it's just too strong though, I mean seriously as it is it would absolutely cheese the PU, I mean you'll see a convoy of super hornets hauling scraps of cargo instead of freelancers, because the freelancer is just too much of an easy target for the hornet (which pirates will use exclusively) firepower: even conservatively, the weapons are at least 30% stronger than any other ship ([url]http://puu.sh/gfAWy.png[/url]) defence: size 4 shield, only the cutlass can rival that, even ships like the gladiator only have size 3. and everyone knows the hornet has a beastly hull right? the SH adds bastion armor on top of that which means it takes 30-40% less damage from all sources: [img]http://puu.sh/gOGEX.png[/img] maneuverability: not good, but not terrible either. I don't have any issue with it's evasiveness in itself, but in the context of these other stats it should be worse - I mean, if it's going to take 3-4 heat cycles on my guns to kill it, it better be literally impossible to miss [editline]25th March 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=ntzu;47390800]Any source on this? As far as I know the vision of Chris Roberts was that this was to be a 'life in space' simulator, not a 'make all battles fair' simulator. It was specifically stated many times, and is readily apparent in how the ship attachments work, that you can UPGRADE your ship and go from civilian grade equipment up to near-military grade equipment which likely would give you a large advantage over someone with a fresh ship. Its meant to be a simulation of life in space and all the hardships and wondrous things that come with it, including the very realistic fact of life in which fights usually aren't fair, and the side with superior technology, firepower, and numbers will have a huge advantage over the group of fresh pilots still in their auroras. They said things like going to the ends of the galaxy to find a legendary weapons craftsman to get the best laser gun around would definitely exist, if that isn't vertical progression then I don't know what is.[/QUOTE] nothing wrong with upgrading your ship, and certainly all fights wont be fair, I mean a hornet should clearly have an advantage against other ships in straight up combat exotic weapons are great too, especially if they're uninsurable so it's more of a risk what I mean specifically is that cost shouldn't equal power, buying new ships is supposed to be a side-grade or fitting into a different niche, rather than a progression up a ladder of increasingly better ships

Balance is also an ongoing work in progress. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a nerf of the SH's combat/tanking abilities, or the abilities of others buffed, especially as the number of flyable ships grows and the SH continues to dominate by whatever degree.

I've only really used my M50 with size 1 weapons vs jono in his hornet. And that just ends up with me circling him going huehuuheuhehu can't hit me. I really should give it a go with size 2 weapons online, we should see about doing another FP meetup

Doesn't the matchmaking take into account what ship people have and adjust accordingly? Seems at the moment a bit like letting loose a lion in kindergarten.

And this is why I only play Vanduul Swarm. [sp]In my super hornet [/sp]

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47390891]The "not a vertical progression" sentiments stem from the fact that in Freelancer you can damn well get through the game with your starting ship without ever going to a bigger hull..[/QUOTE] [del]I just want to point out that that's a ridiculous statement. Freelancer [B]absolutely[/B] was a game of vertical progression. Just because you [I]can[/I] beat the game in a Starflier, Patriot, or Defender, does not mean you should, nor does it mean that the end game ships aren't objectively better. Freelancer had 2 or 3 (Some don't count the Titan due to its lack of agility) top tier ships that you would get access to at the late game and if you weren't flying those ships you were basically gimping yourself.[/del] I'm a retard and that was elix's point. However I'm generally with krail in that Arena Commander multiplayer is a hopeless mess, although I have many more reasons for thinking that beyond just the ship balance. I'm becoming increasingly concerned that this is just the way it's going to be and Star Citizen's flight/combat will never grow on me.

the problem right now isnt super hornets, it's sledges. They're size 1 guns so they can fit in the new reduced gimbal sized and yet have the power of a size 4. a hornet can fit 6 of them on gimbals which means instakills against everything. Honestly it's a little surprising they'd do this with sledges. Even for alpha, someone had to have noticed how OP sledges would be, just looking at the dps spreadsheet it's obvious at a glance. and now they're going to take forever to fix it like they did with the omniskys. meh. otherwise the gladius is now a very solid contender i feel, on par with the superhornet with trade offs. 8 missiles (when they put the twin missile rack back in the store), 2 size 2s and a 2fixed/2gimbal nose thing is pretty solid for a ship as fast as it is. maybe it could do with a bigger shield.

[QUOTE=krail9;47390933]the problem is that unskilled pilots in a super hornet kill skilled pilots in other ships you keep returning to this, and now with woolio... I know it's "THE BEST!!!!1", I don't know how I can make it any clearer - I get it, hornet is the king of the sandbox, woo go paying for power and all that! it's just too strong though, I mean seriously as it is it would absolutely cheese the PU, I mean you'll see a convoy of super hornets hauling scraps of cargo instead of freelancers, because the freelancer is just too much of an easy target for the hornet (which pirates will use exclusively) firepower: even conservatively, the weapons are at least 30% stronger than any other ship ([url]http://puu.sh/gfAWy.png[/url]) defence: size 4 shield, only the cutlass can rival that, even ships like the gladiator only have size 3. and everyone knows the hornet has a beastly hull right? the SH adds bastion armor on top of that which means it takes 30-40% less damage from all sources: [img]http://puu.sh/gOGEX.png[/img] maneuverability: not good, but not terrible either. I don't have any issue with it's evasiveness in itself, but in the context of these other stats it should be worse - I mean, if it's going to take 3-4 heat cycles on my guns to kill it, it better be literally impossible to miss [editline]25th March 2015[/editline] nothing wrong with upgrading your ship, and certainly all fights wont be fair, I mean a hornet should clearly have an advantage against other ships in straight up combat exotic weapons are great too, especially if they're uninsurable so it's more of a risk what I mean specifically is that cost shouldn't equal power, buying new ships is supposed to be a side-grade or fitting into a different niche, rather than a progression up a ladder of increasingly better ships[/QUOTE] So what you're complaining about is the lack of ship variety? I'm sure on or after PU release we'll see more space superiority fighters to rival the Hornet, so people won't use it 'exclusively'.

So I was looking at the stats of the Super Hornet, and christ, it also has a jump engine. If it really were made purely for combat, it wouldn't have that. Also, I can guarantee you that what was stated about the thrusters/engines is definelity not true. I've flown the hornet, and it really is good at turning, and it's fast as shit. The Aurora LN is definelity worse than the hornet, but since I upgraded to my Avenger, I've had somewhat of a chance to take a SH down. And even then, I still feel as if the hornet is more agile than my Avenger (which might seem logical at first due to the cargo and such, but contributing to the discussion, hornets can definelity turn better than most ships, as well as being faster.)

[QUOTE=Dustoff;47393143]So I was looking at the stats of the Super Hornet, and christ, it also has a jump engine. If it really were made purely for combat, it wouldn't have that. Also, I can guarantee you that what was stated about the thrusters/engines is definelity not true. I've flown the hornet, and it really is good at turning, and it's fast as shit. The Aurora LN is definelity worse than the hornet, but since I upgraded to my Avenger, I've had somewhat of a chance to take a SH down. And even then, I still feel as if the hornet is more agile than my Avenger (which might seem logical at first due to the cargo and such, but contributing to the discussion, hornets can definelity turn better than most ships, as well as being faster.)[/QUOTE] I own, in addition to a hornet, an Avenger, a Gladius, an Aurora, a Mustang, and a Cutlass. All of them are more maneuverable than the Hornet. They change directions quickly without bleeding off too much speed. A good indicator if you're unsure is how frequently you get close to black/red out when you're maneuvering.

[QUOTE=archangel125;47393450]I own, in addition to a hornet, an Avenger, a Gladius, an Aurora, a Mustang, and a Cutlass. All of them are more maneuverable than the Hornet. They change directions quickly without bleeding off too much speed. A good indicator if you're unsure is how frequently you get close to black/red out when you're maneuvering.[/QUOTE] I don't really use black/red out as a measurement though, because I always push that till the last thing I see is my crosshair, and then I slow down.

[QUOTE=Dustoff;47393511]I don't really use black/red out as a measurement though, because I always push that till the last thing I see is my crosshair, and then I slow down.[/QUOTE] Here's the thing. It's possible to maneuver fairly well in a Hornet, but that uses boost, of which you have only a finite supply. Other ships can maneuver just as well without using boost, and far better WITH boost. blacking/redding out happens when you exert your pilot to g-forces by changing your momentum too quickly. You'll notice this happens far more frequently without boost in other ships, but you've got to try fairly hard to get it to happen in a Hornet. Fly with comstab and G-safe off.