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tbh krail i don't understand how you are defending a 55 degree FOV rn this is really weird damage control the tenses in that sentence are correct btw.

I don't mind the stupid low FOV when I'm flying my spess ship too much as a not insignificant portion of the expanded FOV would be blocked by pillars and the nose, but it's fucking terrible when walking around.

[QUOTE=Mbbird;47493879]A. depends on who's designing the HUD. B. development ignorance or crutch for low optimization/high visual goals? who knows, all i know is there can't be enough reasons to justify the tunnel vision and motion sickness. reasons aside, it has an effect on the entire game, from corridor hunting to high-deflection shots to dogfight maneuvers. C. change it before they keep developing the game????? "considering pretty much the entire hud system is a prototype" and we're pre-alpha testing, yes, now would be the time to make changes. D. 1. really just not true, especially considering how insanely close quarters SC's combat is, which makes size less important, movement more erratic, etc. humans don't need to perform complex off-angle maneuvers either. it's weird for me to remind you also that the game isn't only about ships and 2. i don't think i get what you're saying, because the only people it [I]doesn't[/I] affect are the people using trackir, who are more numerous than 0.5%[/QUOTE] a. zane is the singular hud designer b. maybe because it looks and plays well? if people are getting motion sickness from that they're either deluding themselves into a placebo response or they can't play 90% of games. as I said last post the FOV is functional, and going higher is not a straight upgrade c. what are you talking about? we're playing a prototype right now. if it wasn't for us, the game wouldn't even be recognisable as a game at this point in development. hence, a lot of stuff that's necessary to play now will get scrapped later on. it's like saying they should convert all ships to the new damage system now, when we know in future almost all of them will get reworked significantly d. the game is only about ships, for now. we'll see how they tackle the issue once people have had a proper go with the fps module, but for now we're talking 100% about ship combat I'm saying people are more likely to get motion sickness with trackir since it puts you into a more first-person perspective, where flying the ship is maybe more akin to watching a dolly shot in a movie (and 0.5% is extremely generous)

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[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47493557]Except for that 300i holographic HUD picture. krail I still want to know where/how the fuck you got that because I smashed my face against google, reddit, and the official site and forums and came up empty for over an hour[/QUOTE]

This is [I]70[/I] FOV, I know because I put a physical protractor on my monitor and measured it. Now imagine 55 [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/111996868/2015-1/Space%20Games/crap.png[/img] now this is 130 [IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/111996868/2015-1/Space%20Games/crap2.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Mbbird;47493897]tbh krail i don't understand how you are defending a 55 degree FOV rn this is really weird damage control the tenses in that sentence are correct btw.[/QUOTE] thanks for dismissing my arguement as white-knighting or damage control. I'm not defending anything, just giving a counter to your idea that the low fov is 'concerning', and that a low default FOV is automatically the worst thing ever, it reads like a stupid [concern] thread he said "I think it'd get pretty fucking annoying to..." as if imagining some hypothetical scenario. has he played the game? is it ACTUALLY annoying? because no one I know has any *actual* issues with it, just the idea of low FOV alone sets people off

it's my opinion that what you're saying is damage control because almost none of it makes any sense

[QUOTE=krail9;47493971] he said "I think it'd get pretty fucking annoying to..." as if imagining some hypothetical scenario.[/QUOTE] The hypothetical scenario is that it'll be like this in the final release which it sure as shit shouldn't and won't be [QUOTE=krail9;47493971] has he played the game? is it ACTUALLY annoying? because no one I know has any *actual* issues with it, just the idea of low FOV alone sets people off[/QUOTE] Fuck you (yes) and yes. Low FOV is universally awful in all situations. Racing games suffer the worst of it because a low FOV can make a 200km/h supercar feel slow as my Elantra in a parking lot

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47493954]Except for that 300i holographic HUD picture. krail I still want to know where/how the fuck you got that because I smashed my face against google, reddit, and the official site and forums and came up empty for over an hour[/QUOTE] march jump point, specifically high-res from the vault [QUOTE=Mbbird;47493977]it's my opinion that what you're saying is damage control because almost none of it makes any sense[/QUOTE] you don't like the low FOV, they say a slider will be fully supported, but you don't trust them - apparently because if they were serious, it would be in by now? isn't that your point? so I give multiple reasons why it isn't a priority right now + why the idea that low fov is somehow detrimental to the rest of game development is hilariously stupid [QUOTE=ScottyWired;47493968]This is [I]70[/I] FOV, I know because I put a physical protractor on my monitor and measured it. Now imagine 55 *beautiful art*[/QUOTE] uh, 55 is vertical fov, which corresponds to something like 85 degree horizontal in 16:9

[QUOTE=krail9;47494054]you don't like the low FOV, they say a slider will be fully supported, but you don't trust them - apparently because if they were serious, it would be in by now? isn't that your point? so I give multiple reasons why it isn't a priority right now + why the idea that low fov is somehow detrimental to the rest of game development is hilariously stupid[/QUOTE] If they're gonna parade about making the best damn graphics ever it seems a little silly to not include one of the most important graphics options for most 3D games. Everyone's gonna be using a high FOV once the final game is out so having it in right now is important. Imagine doing all the FPS level design with 55* and realising "oh wait now that people don't have tunnel vision it turns out all our carefully planned lines of sight are actually terrible."

Fucking I didn't even think of looking at either JP or the Vault. And it's exactly where I saw it, about a month ago. I hope the patch doesn't get pushed out tomorrow, unless they've fixed the major issues on the PTU. Apparently, touching ship controls while the ship's booting up will render those controls disabled when the ship's ready to fly and will actually respond to your controls; e.g. if you tell the ship to throttle up before it's ready, you won't have any throttle control when it is. Only saw one person reporting this in the SC chat, though, so it might be specific to certain specific input devices/types or something.

[QUOTE=ScottyWired;47493968]This is [I]70[/I] FOV, I know because I put a physical protractor on my monitor and measured it. Now imagine 55 [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/111996868/2015-1/Space%20Games/crap.png[/img] now this is 130 [IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/111996868/2015-1/Space%20Games/crap2.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] the problem I have with cranking up your FOV in the case of flying a ship is crunching the junk you're trying to aim at in the center for the express purpose of seeing less important crap way off to your side small FOV [t]http://i.imgur.com/9JSPeWg.png[/t] wide FOV [t]http://i.imgur.com/KOyGW38.png[/t] we've currently got control to [i]decrease[/i] the FOV with our mouse wheel. Cool for more focus I guess, doesn't seem like it'd be hard to just increase the max zoom out for when people wanted to get a quick view of more garbage. Right now I don't think having a gigantic view with tiny things in it would be a great advantage when you already have a good idea of where your enemies are due to hit indicators and your radar (I've got a 325a and can still read that mess well enough to know something's near me and to the right)

there is a zoom function ingame already, works fine. the default zoomed out mode just needs more fov and the hud needs to be positoned for it.

now we add a dash of mobiglass magic [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/111996868/2015-1/General/KOyGW38.png[/img]

Oh look, a ton of posts when I wake up, something great must have happened overnight. Nope, arguing about FOV.

[QUOTE=ScottyWired;47496004]now we add a dash of mobiglass magic [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/111996868/2015-1/General/KOyGW38.png[/img][/QUOTE] half a twitch and he's off the screen but obscured by the screen there's a lot of weird solutions to the visibility problem but I think extreme unreal tournament pro FOV isn't the catch-all we need

Elite Dangerous has a fantastic system for this, I think. Headlook is separate from controls, so you can wobble your head about and look at things, but you can also zoom in or out. There's also an FOV slider. It works well, but requires more buttons.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47493557]The helmet and its glass-projected HUD are a special hell waiting for Zane and the coders when it comes to implementing user-facing FOV options, if the design doesn't get overhauled. [/QUOTE] I'm not convinced that the display you see in first person is the display you see projected onto the third person model of the helmet. That would be a completely ridiculous thing to do because it'd be a nightmare to get that stuff to line up, completely screw up VR support, and just so, so many reasons. It's a super bad idea with very little benefit. Based on how the HUD breaks when using TrackIR is the other reason why I don't think they did that. It's probably parented to the helmet (because it follows its movements), but it's not being rendered onto the inside surface of the helmet. Just because you can see the HUD on the helmet in third person doesn't mean anything. It's likely just a render to texture of the HUD onto the helmet. It's the most reasonable thing to do.

[QUOTE=dai;47496020]half a twitch and he's off the screen but obscured by the screen there's a lot of weird solutions to the visibility problem but I think extreme unreal tournament pro FOV isn't the catch-all we need[/QUOTE] [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/111996868/2015-1/Space%20Games/pewpew.gif[/img] oh god it's already 2am here last diagram goodnight

[QUOTE=ScottyWired;47493982]Racing games suffer the worst of it because a low FOV can make a 200km/h supercar feel slow as my Elantra in a parking lot[/QUOTE] It's funny you say that because a horrendously low field of view is [B]absolutely critical[/B] to playing a racing sim right. Don't ever start talking about field of view to simracing guys because they will beat you into the ground telling you that a 35-55 degree field of view is the absolute right way to play and if you play with anything higher you should stop what you're doing, never play a racing sim ever again, and go play Need for Speed with your Xbox controller. If you think FPS players get defensive about field of view, you've never talked to a simracing player about it. Like, I understand their arguments and the rationale behind it but that's a very big topic and rant for another thread and day. [editline]10th April 2015[/editline] As for the topic of FOV in Star Citizen, just make it dynamic like DCS. Have one default value that's set in options and then allow players to adjust higher or lower ingame. Some situations you want to be zoomed in to look at something far away or focus on something, other times you want to be able to see everything in a close in dogfight. I have the FOV in DCS set to one of the rotaries on my throttle and I'm almost constantly adjusting it while flying.

[QUOTE=woolio1;47496085]Elite Dangerous has a fantastic system for this, I think. Headlook is separate from controls, so you can wobble your head about and look at things, but you can also zoom in or out. There's also an FOV slider. It works well, but requires more buttons.[/QUOTE] holding the right-side shift key will let you look freely in SC right now, but the two problems with that are: way the fuck away from your important maneuvering keys, and you obviously can't maneuver with mouse while freelooking with mouse. Won't be useful in the heat of a fight. In other cases people seem to be doing amazing with trackIR, and I personally would love to be in oculus. In oculus in ED I'm consistently looking around to confirm placement of contacts and make sure I'm pulling maneuvers in the right directions, it's a huge boon to be able to look about like that and makes everything so much more natural. In SC without oculus, I still don't mind the current FOV, with the bit of wiggleroom granted by toggling rightALT+M (thanks for that tip elix), [i]despite the fact that I can't see where I'm going 2/3rds of the time because I strafe like a madman[/i]. I wish I could go back and watch replays of fights from third person because I've had some bullshit good luck missing asteroids and junk

[QUOTE=Why485;47496142]It's funny you say that because a horrendously low field of view is [B]absolutely critical[/B] to playing a racing sim right. Don't ever start talking about field of view to simracing guys because they will beat you into the ground telling you that a 35-55 degree field of view is the absolute right way to play and if you play with anything higher you should stop what you're doing, never play a racing sim ever again, and go play Need for Speed with your Xbox controller. If you think FPS players get defensive about field of view, you've never talked to a simracing player about it. Like, I understand their arguments and the rationale behind it but that's a very big topic and rant for another thread and day. [editline]10th April 2015[/editline] As for the topic of FOV in Star Citizen, just make it dynamic like DCS. Have one default value that's set in options and then allow players to adjust higher or lower ingame. Some situations you want to be zoomed in to look at something far away or focus on something, other times you want to be able to see everything in a close in dogfight. I have the FOV in DCS set to one of the rotaries on my throttle and I'm almost constantly adjusting it while flying.[/QUOTE] I've always preferred higher fields of view in my simracers. I keep the slider cranked all the way up in Gran Turismo. That said, lower FOVs make things feel larger, and more closely emulate driving a car while staring through a hole in a cardboard box.

There's a bug with the holotable where it'll sometimes activate just because you moved close to it fairly quickly (running speed or faster), but you can just hit F to disable it. [t]http://i.imgur.com/UWV7xJ3.jpg[/t] Unless you trigger it in a buggy, because F is also "get out of buggy" but your controls are now being grabbed by the holotable when you're at close range. I had no way out of this except to restart the game, lol. The Khartu-al model is showing in my account but the prop doesn't appear to be in my R&Y hangar yet. However, it's still early, and flairs usually don't get done until afternoon anyway.

1.30 am GMT. Servers down for Star citizen 1.1.1! Yes!

I died in like one shot with no damage to my ship during a squadron battle and while I'm waiting to respond I'm presented with this cheeky bastard [t]http://i.imgur.com/DeETEBv.jpg[/t] earned enough REC to pick up the cutlass, and I'm a little disappointed that it seems to be incomplete with interaction. Getting out of the drivers seat plays a straight-sliding-to-the-side animation before dropping you stuck clipped into the chair, and you can kinda wiggle into the back area of the cockpit. Second seat you can climb into, but doesn't light up and it rubberbands your view to be centered. There's a button to open up the bay to the back, but the doors don't actually let you pass through. managed to clip my way out of the cockpit and walk around, looks beastly in all the right ways. Very tempting to upgrade my 325, but first I'll actually try shooting it up a bit [t]http://i.imgur.com/wjQimeG.jpg[/t] what ships are actually multi-man capable at the moment? I thought the recent update was emphasizing we could land and get into some of the ships to dink about proper with

If the PTU is any indication multi-man only sorta works, but the planned ships were the Super Hornet, Gladiator, and Cutlass. Basically anything with a manned turret that's already flyable. I'm not looking forward to REC becoming a grind. I was hoping this patch would come later so I could sneak in some more games to bank more REC. I am looking forward to playing with missiles some more, because there were some changes to them this patch that should make them a little better.

I'm throwing my idea here now because I think it'll be most helpful and educating for FPCORP dudes that want to be multicrewing. Have you ever heard of Artemis Spaceship Bridge Simulator? If not, take a look at it [URL="http://store.steampowered.com/app/247350/"]here[/URL]. Everyone who wants to join in on this talk to me on Steam. I'll sponsor a copy for the people that join in the first time we do this. Six people can play total, four slots are still free, sort of.

Anyone wanna faff about once the patch goes live? Supposedly the downtime will be about half an hour. [QUOTE=jonoPorter;47499239]I'm throwing my idea here now because I think it'll be most helpful and educating for FPCORP dudes that want to be multicrewing. Have you ever heard of Artemis Spaceship Bridge Simulator? If not, take a look at it here. Everyone who wants to join in on this talk to me on Steam. I'll sponsor a copy for the people that join in the first time we do this. Six people can play total, four slots are still free, sort of.[/QUOTE] I had a nonsteam copy of that kicking around from a buddy that gave it to me years ago. I have no idea if I could even find that again

updating to say apparently my game was apparently borked, a restart seems to have fixed the cutlass's interactivity! sharp stuff, I might have to take that $30 upgrade