Star Citizen Megathread - Fly FREE thru Dec 14th! Link in OP - Games

[QUOTE=nightlord;48133655]Those goals do not show the addition of the persistent universe. The words "persistent universe" in the 4mil goal show what the two things under that heading are for, similarly to the header of "Squadron 42" right above that being for the addition of more missions. The persistent universe is even mentioned in the 3mil goal, with the purpose of that one being to get that part done within 30 months. It was not added as a stretch goal. The FAQ in the archive even mentions it: [url]http://web.archive.org/web/20121121030835/http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen-faq[/url] Looking at some other sites from the time of that, people were mentioning that a persistent universe was part of the initial pitch, with the goal for it just helping to get it done quicker: [url]http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=23475781#p23475781[/url] A first-person persistent universe was part of what was initially pitched, nothing has changed at all.[/QUOTE] The main point I'm trying to get across is that the persistent universe wasn't the focus, wasn't as big or comprehensive as it is now, and didn't emphasize the first person portion as much as it does now. If [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1217335&page=10]you read the FP threads from around the time[/url], the persistent universe was not scheduled to be available at launch. It was just something they would work on as time went. However they did eventually get the money, the PU became the focus, it's now scheduled to be available on the mythical launch, and it's basically Star Wars Galaxies with a bunch of crazy complex plans for things that aren't just flying/trading/shooting spaceships. I really don't want to spend my day off continuing to dig up Star Citizen apocrypha, so continue to disagree with me and who knows, maybe my memory is just wrong or fuzzy. Maybe I've been interpreting Star Citizen wrong this whole time and I'm arguing for something that never existed.

I really believe most of this freaking out is just people getting antsy over the fps delay and getting on the fright train all together, and that's all it is. A bandwagon of restless and impatient people. It's entirely predictable and irrational, and it's the same kind of spontaneous panic that can grip stocks on the stock market, where something is going along just fine, but [I]investor perception[/I] suddenly falls and causes a tangible loss of value -- this is insane, in my book. Zombie sightings are at historical lows, and we don't need to start pressuring the people at the top to begin implementing zombie disaster preparedness plans over the [I]fear[/I] of zombies. Another element stoking backer fear is the funding slowing down -- but of course it is, [I]public[/I] progress has stagnated in the game, and almost everyone who has looked at Star Citizen Alpha 1.1.3 and said "yes, this is now enough for me to buy in" probably already has so there're few new signups/ship sales. However, I expect Star Marine is going to put us over a million ready-to-play backers once it's rolled out for all, because a lot of people have been waiting for that, for better or worse. Now, I want to differentiate the shrill screaming happening right now against the usually reasonable and fair criticisms levelled by Why485, who's often the keeper of Fort Reality Check, and others here. We here all know that some backers' dreams aren't going to happen, because no plan survives first contact with the compiler; we just may disagree on how far down the feature list the "crushed dreams" line will fall. I just wish people would keep all four limbs in contact with reality all the time instead of acting like a spooked herd of space cows that end up wrecking shit when they stampede. It really poisons the well and gives people like Derek Smart and "games journalists" way too much ammo.

I don't think it's the FPS delay that's specifically causing all this talk. It's a straw that broke the camels back sort of situation. There hasn't been any news to talk or get hyped about recently, Arena Commander is in a bad state for longer than they usually leave it in because they're waiting on larger updates that can't be pushed out in a simple AC update, and now with the FPS delay it's easy for people to come out and say things that they've been thinking for a while without just getting drowned out by the fanboys. That's how it is for me anyway. None of this is new, it's just a good time to talk about it.

I do have to admit that it's a [I]little[/I] concerning that even the leak, containing basically every S42 ship plus other stuff, couldn't hold backers' attention for more than a few weeks, because, I mean, fuck, what is CIG going to do until the PU? :v: In a more serious and completely different topic, I'm looking for a few people to fly some co-op VS with me tonight (relative to North America--it's morning here), because I'm going to be trying out a tweak to the K+M relative control scheme and see if I can capture some video. If it turns out to work well, I'll share the results, including my footage, with the thread. I can fly solo but it'd be more fun with others, especially to have control groups. Anyone up for flying around 5-6pm PST/8-9 EST? Public for REC or private for fucking about, either works fine for me (although if it was public VS it'd be best if all were FPCOrp instead of randos mixed in with us).

[QUOTE=Why485;48133900]The main point I'm trying to get across is that the persistent universe wasn't the focus, wasn't as big or comprehensive as it is now, and didn't emphasize the first person portion as much as it does now. If [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1217335&page=10]you read the FP threads from around the time[/url], the persistent universe was not scheduled to be available at launch. It was just something they would work on as time went. However they did eventually get the money, the PU became the focus, it's now scheduled to be available on the mythical launch, and it's basically Star Wars Galaxies with a bunch of crazy complex plans for things that aren't just flying/trading/shooting spaceships. I really don't want to spend my day off continuing to dig up Star Citizen apocrypha, so continue to disagree with me and who knows, maybe my memory is just wrong or fuzzy. Maybe I've been interpreting Star Citizen wrong this whole time and I'm arguing for something that never existed.[/QUOTE] The emphasis on the first-person portion has not changed at all, that's always been one of the big parts of the game that was just as important as the ship combat and all the other things. There are very few big features that were added, with the main two being salvaging and an expanded transport system. Things like exploration, trading, mining, boarding, combat etc were all features there at the start.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;48133908]I just wish people would keep all four limbs in contact with reality all the time instead of acting like a spooked herd of space cows that end up wrecking shit when they stampede. It really poisons the well and gives people like Derek Smart and "games journalists" way too much ammo.[/QUOTE] The poo-flinging has been around since the first delays. It picks up any time there's a major controversy in the game. I think there's too much shitflinging at SC from the wider gaming community and journalists, but this game is something that one must consider from the point of view of outsiders. A guy who hasn't worked in the industry for ten years, whose last game was released 3 years late with half the features promised, powered by dated tech, returns to the industry with a new game. People go nuts and start throwing money at him for the [I]promise[/I] of space ships they'll be able to fly in several years. Features keep being added in the funding drive, turning the already very ambitious game into the [I]EVERYTHING SIMULATOR![/I] that has been promised by developers since forever, i.e. Derek Smart's Battlecruiser 300AD series (awful game, btw). It looks like the most bloated feature creep of any game in a long time. When a playable prototype comes out, it's glitchy, barely runs, and is feature-barren despite a 6 month delay. It's a great game now, but updates to games are rarely covered seriously by general gaming journalists unless they are controversial. First impressions are [I]everything[/I]. Hell, didn't the first public preview of the DFM end up crashing like four times in a row? The last time I saw hype like this was for MechWarrior Online and Spore. It's quite different for SC because it has no publisher mandates and isn't run by a fuckwad like Russ Bullock, but outsiders only see this massively ambitious game and then look back at [I]other[/I] massively ambitious games that failed miserably. So in short, you have a super anticipated game with a crowdfunded budget, it has gone months without a meaningful update, and it has faced constant delays. It's a journalism goldmine, because controversy sells.

spore they screwed up with how the creature was built, they wen't with a you can make whatever you want on basically one path progress instead of what was shown to be working in the game where you could create a race of sea monkey or jellyfish people who could fall ontop of eachother if not built correctly.

Oh god, MWO. What a painful disappointment that was, and now they'll be sitting on the IP for god knows how long.

its ok, we still have mwll matches going

titanfall also helped hit my mech itch and thanks to that reference I'm finding myself reinstalling it, heres to hoping theres actually any servers left [editline]6th July 2015[/editline] all this talk of space games has me craving a space game, but I can't afford Elite and I can't think of anything else to play

There was also mention of mechs back in the day, that looking at fps now is hopefully on the back burner.

[QUOTE=Why485;48133730] Star Citizen is a perfect example of what happens when you don't have publishers and stockholders that care about deadlines and dictate budget. Yes, you can argue that the community gets mad and that websites will run articles about how the sky is falling, but that's not the same as the legal and financial bindings that come with legit publishers. This game is practically a science experiment. I don't think anything of this scale, with this much money, has ever been attempted without publisher oversight. They're entirely self-governed for better [I]and[/I] worse. It's one of the biggest reasons the whole project is so fascinating to watch.[/QUOTE] That's actually one of the things I love about it. I never expect CiG to keep any of the deadlines they set. But after seeing what can happen with publishers like Ubisoft when they rush out unfinished games (Watch Dogs, Assassin's Creed, anyone?) I'm glad that CiG is taking their time in ironing out the problems the game has.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;48133908]Zombie sightings are at historical lows, and we don't need to start pressuring the people at the top to begin implementing zombie disaster preparedness plans over the [I]fear[/I] of zombies.[/QUOTE] Dara O Briain fan?

[QUOTE=Mattk50;48135937]its ok, we still have mwll matches going[/QUOTE] Small reminder that MWLL was forced to shut down because MWO thought they didn't belong in their shadow. Also PGI denying that they did anything to end them while, at the same time, bringing out 500 fucking dollar golden mech skins. I know compared to SC that amount of money is trivial nowadays but still, [I]skins[/I].

If they would of had the whole game out by now, people would fucking be bitching saying OMG ITS NOT WHAT WE WANTED, but since they took their time, its OMG YOU GUYS ARE TAKING TO LONG, YOU SHOULD'VE BEEN DONE YEARS AGO!

[img]http://i.imgur.com/SOs9xdw.png[/img] I love playing "is this an update or some alarmist bullshit discussion" the video with the caterpillar concept art got my hopes up but it rain into the ground pretty fast after that having said that, I agree with the sentiment that, while the guy had some minor points, the majority of his post is "I told you so" garbage and the points that connect were rather vague/sweeping things that have little/any impact. "Oh no, the game as it was pitched won't be made!" no shit, the base concept has been improved upon and changed directions as they've found certain things would work better or worse in the completed product. They now have a budget that far exceeds what they were hoping for so now they can dedicate a lot of time and research into this kind of refinement, work comfortably for a longer time to ensure it's at an acceptable point before releasing, and continue to provide content after the initial release without worry of going into debt paying their employees a deserved wage. If they delivered the originally pitched game for the (at the time) 4x goal cost, people would be mad they ran off with all that money without doing something more with it.

Actual news, folks: - [URL="https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/270962/1-1-4-publish-to-live-at-10am-cdt-3pm-gmt/p1"]Live has been updated to 1.1.4[/URL]; it is a small patch that simply adds Gamescom trophies. - 1.1.5, a much more significant patch, is being prepared for PTU but is not live yet; it'll be 25GB or so - [URL="https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/5273469/#Comment_5273469"]Ben has said[/URL] that the Scythe and P-52 Merlin are intended to be flyable this month (presumably 1.1.5) for Scythe and Connie owners, and that the Merlin is intended to go on sale. Exactly how flying a snubship with no parent ship is going to work or what its role is has not been clarified yet, but I'm sure they've worked something out or there'll be a warning on a store page, or else Alexis is going to personally kill whoever puts the Merlin up for sale after CS gets flooded with tickets. 1.1.5 is basically the Star Marine branch, but without Star Marine; Arena Commander will have a bunch of changes that'll be supporting the fps module, only we're not getting the fps module stuff itself yet on account of the netcode and animation issues holding it back. Full patch notes to come when it's actually ready. This week's comm-link schedule: [QUOTE]Tuesday, July 7th - Meet the Devs: Randy Vasquez Wednesday, July 8th - Jump Point Rerun - Vault Update Thursday, July 9th - Around the Verse: Episode 52 Friday, July 10th - Reverse the Verse - Test Fly Week - 300 Series - FPS Update – Week of July 6th[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;l20qVwjFjUE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l20qVwjFjUE[/video] [QUOTE]00:52 – UGC with Galactopedia 02:21 – Language in 2945 04:43 – Priority of Canon 06:30 – UEE as the Roman Empire 09:00 – Players being entered into the Galactopedia 11:45 – UEE military testing 14:22 – Updating the Galactopedia 16:50 – Principal of non interference of medical services? 19:16 – Size of the Galactopedia 20:56 – Writing for mechanics[/QUOTE] We're also at $84,909,956. At the current rate, we'll break $85mil in two days. [URL="https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/270904/chris-roberts-has-failed-at-delivering-games-before-because-he-was-too-ambitious/p1"]And, Derek Smart got just what he wanted, a concern thread pushing his shit into CIG's own faces along with fretting and hand-wringing by idiots.[/URL] Notice how he gets mad that people are spending money on Star Citizen instead of, oh, indie games like the ones he makes. His entire post is "If I couldn't do it in 1996, Chris can't do it today with a budget my sweaty masturbatory daydreams never dared consider", and I was willing to overlook that until he went full-on concern troll with the FTC shit. That's being a troublemaker and he knows it.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOm_0u2JBMQ[/media] this is derek smart's own current 3-4 years in development far too ambitious for his own good game btw

So if the [I]preparation [/I]patch is 25GB, what will the actual star marine update size be like I mean holy mother of shit it's going to be bigger then everything we have combined right now

That looks like it's a Halo 2 total conversion that got out of hand. [QUOTE=MendozaMan;48142565]So if the [I]preparation [/I]patch is 25GB, what will the actual star marine update size be like I mean holy mother of shit it's going to be bigger then everything we have combined right now[/QUOTE] Keep in mind that that's likely the content size for the PTU from a clean install, not a delta over an existing PTU install or anything.

It looks like an uglier Planetside 2

[video=youtube;OlYGgju1R2o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlYGgju1R2o[/video] I found this LP published 4 months ago on presumably the live client of the time. I think it says everything about Derek Smart's game dev cred. Also, Line of Defense is on the Steam Store in early access with buy-in tiers (marked as DLC as the only way to get immediate early access to the game; you can also request a closed beta invite from the site), and there'll be a cash shop added eventually. [URL="http://lodmmo.com/store/"]Holy shit this looks so P2W.[/URL] :v: What's really great about the early access for Line of Defense is this. Consider Derek's shitposting about Star Citizen with the Early Access statement for LoD: [QUOTE]Stop buying virtual items for a goddamn game you don’t have.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]DURING THE EARLY ACCESS PERIOD, BUYING A [preorder pack] DOES NOT IMMEDIATELY GUARANTEE ACCESS TO THE ITEMS NOT ALREADY IMPLEMENTED OR UNLOCKED IN THE GAME. FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU BUY TAK LIV AND THE GLE22 GRENADE LAUNCHER HAS NOT YET BEEN UNLOCKED, YOU WON’T BE ABLE TO USE IT UNTIL IT IS UNLOCKED LATER ON DURING DEVELOPMENT.”[/QUOTE] Oh, and [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3c52bi/rumor_alex_mayberry_has_left_cig/cssc1i1"]Derek totally has the inside line[/URL] over all of us on what's [I]really[/I] happening at CIG (sheeple): [QUOTE]For us devs, it is a small industry. Most of us know each other. Travis Day, a snr producer, also left last month. There are others. [B]It's all being kept quiet for a good reason.[/B] Ask yourself this. Why is it that other people come and go, and there is fanfare. Yet, when two experienced, top echelon guys leave, not a peep?[/QUOTE] This is just pathetic. :v: [URL="https://ia601506.us.archive.org/9/items/StarCitizenComplaint/StarCitizen_complaint.pdf"][B]Oh my fucking god.[/B][/URL] [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3cdvl7/derek_smart_seems_to_have_inspired_an_ftc/"]Derek fuck right off and die.[/URL] [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3cdvl7/derek_smart_seems_to_have_inspired_an_ftc/csv8g7g"]In his defense, Derek sez,[/URL] [QUOTE]Sorry to burst your bubble, I don't know who that guy is, and I had nothing to do with it. If you check the forums, he has been on probation (now banned) for some time now, even before he posted that new thread. He created that PDF after he was perma-banned. I don't know who he is, and I have no association with him. I am just using his detailed complaint as an example. What you SHOULD be concerned with, is the fact that someone who invested in the game, posts something like that, gets called a troll - and subsequently banned. So now he's off to the FTC.[/QUOTE] Why should the FTC be involved when someone who's consistently caused problems in the SC forums is removed from them because [URL="https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/270590/star-citizen-is-pyramid-scheme"]he outright calls the game a scam on its own forum[/URL]? It's just purely coincidental that Derek talked 50 pages of FUD shit about Star Citizen and then gave a direct line on how to complain to the FTC, and somehow knew about it almost immediately. Maybe he's just jealous, as some Redditor points out, about [URL="https://i.imgur.com/CYAIHWO.png"]the size of SC's community[/URL]. I'm done talking about this guy, but fucking, FTC complaints over ordinary development snags? Ugh.

Picking on Derek Smart is like picking on the retarded kid. Except, imagine if you didn't stop picking on him after middle school and instead kept on doing it after he graduated college, settled down, had a couple kids, and is now nearing retirement. Like, it's just so trite to make fun of Derek Smart these days. I guess what's happening is that a new generation of people are discovering him. I kind of admire Derek Smart, but in a really hard to describe kind of way. Like, it's hard to say any game he's made has been a huge success, or a success at all, but he's been trying it for like 20 years now. I still think Battlecruiser is cool because of the batshit insane depth that it has. I wouldn't recommend it anybody, not without serious caution anyway, but both his games and himself are a fascinating piece of history in the genre and video games in general. Picking on him like he's one of those Steam Greenlight devs who puts out a couple shitty games is doing him a disservice. He goes [I]way[/I] back, and unlike those devs he also codes, models, and animates all of his own shit on top of writing entire [I]engines[/I] from scratch so that he can make his games. He's not technically a one man army developer, because he has a handful of artist and sound guys, but he's responsible for creating the vast majority of his games. From scratch. The guy puts a lot of work into his games. He's misguided and very old fashioned sure, but it's genuine work nonetheless. I have a soft spot for good old Derek Smart, and I fully expect that this post makes me sound like a crazy person.

[QUOTE=the_killer24;48142533][media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOm_0u2JBMQ[/media] this is derek smart's own current 3-4 years in development far too ambitious for his own good game btw[/QUOTE] if this was a personal project 6 months in, I'd give him benefit of the doubt. At near 4 years of development and the chest-beating article he wrote about SC, 'pathetic' isn't a strong enough word

[QUOTE=Why485;48143087]Picking on Derek Smart is like picking on the retarded kid etc. etc.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=dai;48143091]if this was a personal project 6 months in, I'd give him benefit of the doubt. At near 4 years of development and the chest-beating article he wrote about SC, 'pathetic' isn't a strong enough word[/QUOTE] This sums it up for me; I can respect Derek Smart on his own merits, because fuck he's certainly released more games than I have so that's an accomplishment right there. Nobody can say Derek Smart didn't. But when he sticks his neck out and stirs up shit about others who're doing better than him, fuelled by what appears to be concentrated butthurt and impatience, and encourages people to make [I]FTC complaints[/I] (and someone [I]does[/I] immediately after after basically parroting his shit on the forums and getting perma'd for it), he deserves every piece of shit thrown at him. I think he's what Peter Molyneux would have been if he'd never had big publishers to fund him--bitter and salty about his peers who're living his dreams.

Mr. Smart, he's crazy, doesn't mean he's wrong about some observations. You can be a poor programmer but can see other people's crap even in good programmers' code. Also he wasn't the one who filed the complaint with the FTC. He did though admittedly hijack the #GamerGate tag to convey the information which is not relevant to the tag. But SC's problems relevant to GG ise of the lack of knowledge and support for the cycle of aggression made by the people who write articles on game sites. Also size doesn't matter entirely, look at riot games, popular game some shitty people on the pay roll.

The only thing I really picked up from Derek Smarts post is that space games on large scales are really really fucking hard. Investors and Publishers don't like the timelines required and don't want to fund the tremendous costs for it when you can't even guarantee theres an audience large enough to make a profit on. Star Citizen is crowd funded, so no investors [I]really[/I] breathing down the necks of RSI. They have a large amount of money, and if people can learn to accept just how much time this game will probably take it will get made. It may not meet every single damn point they want to the game to meet, but if it only meets 1/2 of them it'll still be one of the better games made and maybe the best space game ever made. So I believe. But I'm stocking up on patience :v:

[IMG]http://www.3000ad.com/press/bc3k_promo2.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;48142493]Actual news, folks: - [URL="https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/270962/1-1-4-publish-to-live-at-10am-cdt-3pm-gmt/p1"]Live has been updated to 1.1.4[/URL]; it is a small patch that simply adds Gamescom trophies. - 1.1.5, a much more significant patch, is being prepared for PTU but is not live yet; it'll be 25GB or so - [URL="https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/5273469/#Comment_5273469"]Ben has said[/URL] that the Scythe and P-52 Merlin are intended to be flyable this month (presumably 1.1.5) for Scythe and Connie owners, and that the Merlin is intended to go on sale. Exactly how flying a snubship with no parent ship is going to work or what its role is has not been clarified yet, but I'm sure they've worked something out or there'll be a warning on a store page, or else Alexis is going to personally kill whoever puts the Merlin up for sale after CS gets flooded with tickets. 1.1.5 is basically the Star Marine branch, but without Star Marine; Arena Commander will have a bunch of changes that'll be supporting the fps module, only we're not getting the fps module stuff itself yet on account of the netcode and animation issues holding it back. Full patch notes to come when it's actually ready. [/QUOTE] So we're gettin a new patch, but netcode is still fucked then? Right, call me when the servers work for more then 5 minutes

You know what, I'm fine with Derek Smart contacting a lawyer with experience in the FTC. If cloud imperium has problems, they will show more openly, if they aren't it'll show.