Star Citizen Megathread - Fly FREE thru Dec 14th! Link in OP - Games

[QUOTE=krail9;48421517]for some reason the fps part looked like absolute shit as in, check out the animation preview vid from a recent update post, it looks way smoother[/QUOTE] The fps and multicrew teams are working on different development branches. The Gamescom demo likely had little to no contribution directly from Illfonic.

[QUOTE=archangel125;48413794]This is a rather petty thing to say this late in, but I'm seriously hoping that the character customization on the finished game is extensive enough to let me create a character who looks like me, even if only superficially or idealistically. I've seen loads of games that appear to be ethnically diverse, having Asian, African/Carribean, Hispanic and Caucasian characters, but none that look Indian. Which is a little sad considering my people make up a sixth of the world's population. The only game so far that's had characters that appear South Asian is DayZ standalone. Can you believe that shit? So that's my little hope for Star Citizen.[/QUOTE] I'll be happy if it's similar to EVE's level of character customisation. I manage to make an almost exact lookalike of myself when I used to play.

Just watched the live version of the multicrew demo. Can definitely see why they did a press version too, something tells me this Jered fellow isn't going up in the company any time soon.

Reminder, CR was yelling directions at Jared "Disco Lando" Huckabee. He's a good offline editor, maybe not quite as capable of working under the high pressure of taking shouted direction from the boss of the entire company while switching a live show for 2,000 people in the audience and like 20k+ watching live on stream.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;48417130][URL="https://s3.amazonaws.com/rsi-webseed/_LauncherInfo"]https://s3.amazonaws.com/rsi-webseed/_LauncherInfo[/URL] Put this file with the launcher files (it failed to download for you for whatever reason), it contains the torrent info for the download. Note, this is basically the same kind of file that Disco Lando accidentally leaked that was pointing to the fps build that was leaked. I'm not sure [I]where[/I] in the SC folder structure the file goes, though. Also, reinstall and give it another try, and it's possible CIG might've fucked up or something's wrong with the download/launcher. Gamescom 2014's trophy took forever to make; there's also the PAX Australia 2014 trophy, and I think there might've been one for CitizenCon. There weren't any for events in the first half of this year (PAX East/South, SXSW).[/QUOTE] It's downloaded now, but when I click launch it doesn't do anything. The launcher disappears and nothing happens. What do?

Retry, reinstall launcher, wait for CIG to fix their shit, in that order. I got the same error on a fully-patched, idling launcher, so I think it's server issues of some kind. [URL="https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/5420078/#Comment_5420078"]Also, Disco Lando gets to tell his side of the story:[/URL] [QUOTE]Haha, the truth is perhaps less exciting than many expect: We hired an A/V company, THEY ran the production, and I held their hand. I wasn't operating anything. Remember Travis in every other livestream demo? That was me. Hands off, making the calls. Not executing them. I was the guy sitting next to the guy pushing buttons. Basically, I was just the guy upstairs that Chris knew the name of. =) When the wrong button was pressed, that was a very nervous German, but he did his best and meant well. Happy some folks are having fun with it, though. =)[/QUOTE]

[url]https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/171914/katamari-damashii-controller-vs-controller/p1188[/url] If anyone was wondering about the RSI forum's reaction to the trackball joysticks was, read the next few pages of that. But, really, you shouldnt be wondering what their reaction was.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;48425215][url]https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/171914/katamari-damashii-controller-vs-controller/p1188[/url] If anyone was wondering about the RSI forum's reaction to the trackball joysticks was, read the next few pages of that. But, really, you shouldnt be wondering what their reaction was.[/QUOTE] aren't all the 'katamari' threads just concentrated toxic circlejerks with unmovable opinions

[QUOTE=dai;48425292]aren't all the 'katamari' threads just concentrated toxic circlejerks with unmovable opinions[/QUOTE] from what i can tell they are an attempt to quarantine the circlejerk, but in reality it reinforces it by providing people a place where nobody will challenge their ideas for them to echo chamber about in all day. Then they go allover the rest of the forum and shitpost about it.

The controller balance katamari would be an idiot cull if it happened on Facepunch. There is no reason to read it. It once served a useful purpose but now it's out of control and is hazardous waste. [video=youtube;qN_IqX_iWQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN_IqX_iWQU[/video] It's literally 36 thousand posts of this ^

I think the track ball thing is, to put it in the nicest way possible, very naive. I can see why somebody thinks it would work well in theory, but I just don't see it working well in practice. I'd like to try it anyway just because it's so weird, and I want to be wrong, but I don't have high hopes. That's without getting into the awful ergonomics of where the track ball is located on the high end throttle. Could be handy to have a way to interact with menus without having to let off the throttle I guess. Honestly I found all the stick announcements disappointing and frankly lazy, although I wasn't expecting much to begin with. I'm curious to see what's on the back of both the announced throttles because there could be a trick back there that they didn't emphasize which could change my opinion. [editline]10th August 2015[/editline] Looking closer at the announced sticks, the cheaper stick is the much more interesting one. The high end one looks like it'll suffer from, and accentuate, all the reasons why the X-55 is such a crappy stick to use for a 6DOF space sim. The X-52 derived stick on the other hand has much more logical placement for the little track balls. It also looks like the throttle has a hat switch on the front of it as well, which like the X-52, is perfect for space sims. There's definitely less buttons, but honestly space sims aren't that complicated compared to flight simulators like DCS where high button counts are critical. I still have very serious doubts to the utility of track balls on a space sim (in the context of on a joystick), but color me interested in the low end stick. If nothing else, it's such a wacky idea it's worth keeping an eye on.

im somewhat optimistic about the x52, (the x55 does look bad for the reasons you described)the track ball idea could actually work out well. im picturing where you are making your turn towards an enemy with your joystick then use the ball to make the adjustments on a cursor to fine tune your aim, could be a worthwhile technique. HOMAS with the stick being used for the ship nose and mouse for gimbals (as opposed to allstrafe/interactive or something) is very difficult, im wondering if it will be any easier when you have both functions on one hand even with two different inputs. i wont be buying it though, someone else who gets it will be the first to test it for me :P

maybe for the grand price of like, $1.50, they could add more powerful magnets by default. not having that deadzone is like, 800x more important for a space sim than DCS, and it's already important for DCS. And let's be honest, the reason that we're not impressed is because we're not the target audience of a Star Citizen rebranded joystick. The target audience isn't going to know what a deadzone is, much less recognize it and recognize that it can be almost fixed.

[URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14878-Star-Marine-Status-Update"]FPS status post is up.[/URL] Major blocker is retargeting all 3000+ animations to the new rig, along with working out some issues with UI, the cover system, and reload animations. Launcher updated to 2.3.8. [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3giwpt/launcher_238/"]Says Keegan on Reddit:[/URL] [QUOTE]Hey Yall. New launcher! I've been combing through bugs reported here, and trying to fix what I was able to in the past couple of days. As usual, continue to post bugs and feedback in this thread, and upvote issues you share, so I can see what the most common issues are. Windows 10: There looks to be a compatibility issue with .NET 3.5 libraries, so I'm changing the installer to install this pre-req. The installer will be updated either later today, or tomorrow. If you'd like to try the fix now, go download and install .NET 3.5. Patcher - Fixed issue where people who have launcher set to PTU are unable to switch to live once PTU shut down - Fixed issue where patcher would unpause paused downloads. - Edited Error messages to be more readable for users - Slowed down patcher update check from once a minute to once every 5 minutes. - "No _LauncherInfo" popup error only trips on the first check. Bootstrapper - Now starts the patcher even if unable to connect to amazon, and a patcher install is present. Installer (Will be released later today or tomorrow) - Added prereq check to detect (and install if needed) NET Framework[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;48427005][URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14878-Star-Marine-Status-Update"]FPS status post is up.[/URL] Major blocker is retargeting all 3000+ animations to the new rig[/QUOTE] I'm always respectful of delays despite how frustrating they can be, but what the actual fuck? this is literally the 3rd or 4th time they've changed the character skeleton and had to redo all the anims I mean, I'm not going to claim to be an expert on animation and shit, but even if retooling the character rig is this common then why bind all 3000+ animations to it every time it changes

[QUOTE=krail9;48435270]I mean, I'm not going to claim to be an expert on animation and shit, but even if retooling the character rig is this common then why bind all 3000+ animations to it every time it changes[/QUOTE] How are they going to make sure all the animations work properly if they don't?

[QUOTE=Jimesu_Evil;48435281]How are they going to make sure all the animations work properly if they don't?[/QUOTE] why do they all need to work if you know the rig isn't final?

How do they know if the rig is final if they don't know if the animations work? Problems arise which require rejigging stuff all the time. Like you said, you don't know about animation stuff so just leave it to the people who do. They wouldn't waste time doing this stuff unless it was absolutely necessary.

I don't know, if there's one thing CIG is good at, it's coming up with a bad and insanely work intensive idea, and only after they follow through with it by putting a ton of work into it and apply it to a lot of things do they realize it's a bad idea, then throw out the whole thing and all that work so they can rework it with a better system. Couple examples off the top of my head: ship variant system that's already applied to like half the buyable ships being replaced by the modular system, and the horrendously over-complicated and insanely work intensive damage model applied to the majority of the ingame ships being replaced with the new more procedural damage system.

[QUOTE=Jimesu_Evil;48435397]How do they know if the rig is final if they don't know if the animations work? Problems arise which require rejigging stuff all the time. Like you said, you don't know about animation stuff so just leave it to the people who do. They wouldn't waste time doing this stuff unless it was absolutely necessary.[/QUOTE] you're saying they literally have to build every single anim to tell if a rig is any good? this is what prototyping is for. it seems incredibly amateurish to build out an entire system and scrap it completely [I]multiple times[/I]. and logically it's a damn human body, you should be able to reasonably figure out what the rig has to do and trial it with a representative set of animations + ragdoll physics, 1st/3rd person sync etc. I'm not exaggerating when I say this is their third redo on this I mean by that logic, any time they add a new ship with new animations from now, there's a decent chance the rig magically wont work and they'll have to rebuild it all over again and I say I don't know animation so it would be nice to know the real reasoning behind it from someone who does, not so as to say we can't discuss it :v: [QUOTE=Why485;48436424]I don't know, if there's one thing CIG is good at, it's coming up with a bad and insanely work intensive idea, and only after they follow through with it by putting it a ton of work into it and apply it to a lot of things do they realize it's a bad idea, then throw out the whole thing and all that work so they can rework it with a better system. Couple examples off the top of my head: ship variant system that's already applied to like half the buyable ships being replaced by the modular system, and the horrendously over-complicated and insanely work intensive damage model applied to the majority of the ingame ships being replaced with the new more procedural damage system.[/QUOTE] I can deal with the damage states change because it's an actual meaningful change, and I sympathise their first approach was pretty viable, but they chose the new system after some r&d with the procedural stuff this is more akin to redoing the damage states, but using the exact same system as before, just with different damage models, effects etc,[I] and then again[/I]

Well, we won't probably ever know why they do what they do. Maybe they thought they had it all set up. And after so much work, they found a big problem. Have any of you ever pour a ton of effort into something, only to realize near the end you fucked something up and need to start over? Like those jokes where people are doing a huge math problem and later on they forgot to carry a single number.

[QUOTE=krail9;48435312]why do they all need to work if you know the rig isn't final?[/QUOTE] [i]because [b]they don't know if an iteration is final or not[/b] until they do it an find out if it works or not[/i]. If you can't find your car keys, and after an hour figure out they were in your sock drawer, how stupid would it be for someone to say "well why did you waste all that time looking when you could have just gone straight to the sock drawer???" they're not psychic and wouldn't have done the other systems had they found the one that worked the first time around. It's how problem solving works, and while it's frustrating they've gone through so many iterations, it shows they're putting effort into making it work [i]right[/i]. imagine if we stayed with the janky rigs we've got in the hangar right now when FPS goes live

The SC wikia is highly mediocre and for once I actually went out of my way to edit a public document. If I'm feeling up for it I'll trawl through the whole thing and get this crap fixed.

While the animations look like a hell of a lot of wasted time, I don't do heavy animation based stuff so I can't comment on that one. The one I can comment on, and the one that I saw coming a long time ago, was the damage system. As soon as they started saying that the damage models had to remade for every variant of the same ship, that started throwing up huge red flags. The damage model they had would be fine if Star Citizen was a study sim, but it's not. There's supposed to be a ton of ships in the game, not just one, and the old method gets very complicated very fast for larger ships. It's a technique that doesn't scale. They [I]had[/I] to have known that, but it's hard to say when they started working on the updated procedural damage model thing. What is kind of crazy is that they went ahead and kept on working in that direction despite (hopefully) knowing it was a bad idea and needed to change. What I think they should have done, and I realize I'm backseat developing but I'd like to think that as a software developer of real time industry sims and a hobbyist game developer I know at least something on the topic, is stuck to just a very small sample of diverse and representative ships and polish those to a sheen. That way you get your processes in place, lessons learned on what works and what doesn't, and you have a single standard to build towards rather than the rolling standards they currently have. That rolling standard is why every time the standard changes, they then have to redo [I]everything[/I] they've done every time an update happens. They keep adding more content which makes the whole "redo everything" ordeal take longer each time. I think the reason for this though isn't so much incompetence as it is Star Ciitzen's very unique funding model. They live or die based on selling internet space ships, which requires them to keep putting out content that they know is going to be broken or have to be redone in the future. They're between a rock and a hard place. If they had kept the ship selection to say an Aurora (small utility ship), Hornet (small combat ship), and Cutlass (medium sized multi-crew ship) or some similar combination then they would have come across [I]even more[/I] of the "wow 80 million dollars and this is all you have to show for it?" accusations. If they keep adding content to systems that are constantly changing on fundamental levels, then that means they're going to have a hell of a lot of duplicated work from having to re-implement new systems on an ever increasing catalog of old content. I don't envy CIG.

[QUOTE=krail9;48436745]you're saying they literally have to build every single anim to tell if a rig is any good? this is what prototyping is for. it seems incredibly amateurish to build out an entire system and scrap it completely [I]multiple times[/I]. and logically it's a damn human body, you should be able to reasonably figure out what the rig has to do and trial it with a representative set of animations + ragdoll physics, 1st/3rd person sync etc. I'm not exaggerating when I say this is their third redo on this[/QUOTE] Any other dev team who cares about getting things right would do the same thing if they had the freedom to, but most can't because they have publishers and investors to appease with strict deadlines. This is why we see so many buggy games on launch these days. CIG has the freedom to make sure they get it right, even if it does take longer.

[url=https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/277687/q-a-retaliator-modules/]Q's being taken on Tali's modules for the upcoming Q&A[/url] I asked the important questions, like [i]can we be lazy assholes and watch youtube/livestream junk on the TVs in the living modules[/i]

Updated SC. I forgot how much I [I]hated[/I] the 300i; last time I played was with a free weekend Hornet. Whoever designed the HUD on the 300i should be shot; bright blue radar bulb against a bright blue background with bright blue ship icons for allies and barely visible pink icons for enemies. Also no gimbals was physically painful, even with a C117 Badger on the noise and the default guns on the wings. Got to wave 4 before my game glitched out and I had portions of my ship's geometry stretching to infinity blocking half my view, and the rest of the cockpit disappearing depending on my orientation. MechWarrior Living Legends (a CryEngine 2.5 game) had the same issue, funny enough. Game crashed when I committed sudoku. On a side note: Why does the savior of PC gaming have less graphical options than most porting disaster consolitis games? Also 30fps cap by default and most of the CryEngine console commands locked in-game because reasons. It's [I]really[/I] annoying having to use an autoexec to get rid of some of the awful graphical effects.

[QUOTE=Saber15;48438061]On a side note: Why does the savior of PC gaming have less graphical options than most porting disaster consolitis games? Also 30fps cap by default and most of the CryEngine console commands locked in-game because reasons. It's [I]really[/I] annoying having to use an autoexec to get rid of some of the awful graphical effects.[/QUOTE] Welcome to pre-alpha. vsync and motion blur forced on and requiring a user.cfg to adjust is a PITA though. The 3xx series is slated for a major rework, remember.

when will we get an options menu :(

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;48438160]Welcome to pre-alpha. vsync and motion blur forced on and requiring a user.cfg to adjust is a PITA though. [/QUOTE] I think this is less of a case of pre-alpha and more of a case of lazy UI designers, considering that CryEngine natively supports changing graphical options within the game without any sort of restarting; all it would take for better graphics options would be some checkboxes for shit like VSync and the motion-sickness inducing motion blur. Why they locked down the console is beyond me. I would think that they would leave it unlocked so people can figure out what the hell is breaking would be a good idea. Adjusting my options on the fly in MWLL let me double my effective FPS when I was running on an old PC, without the fuss of having to constantly restart the game. The shortened load times are nice, though. Starting Star Citizen is no longer my cue to turn on the TV, read a book, or make a sandwich.