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UI is getting 100% replaced by the Mobiglass stuff. It's why I think they've put so little effort into it and the absolutely atrocious holotable.

[QUOTE=Why485;48438457]UI is getting 100% replaced by the Mobiglass stuff. It's why I think they've put so little effort into it and the absolutely atrocious holotable.[/QUOTE] I thought Mobiglass was supposed to just be for the in-game stuff (like buying stuff in a store), as a diegetic interface.

[QUOTE=Saber15;48438573]I thought Mobiglass was supposed to just be for the in-game stuff (like buying stuff in a store), as a diegetic interface.[/QUOTE] MobiGlas [I]is[/I] the game's interface. The escape menu's going to be gone entirely unless they change plans as usual. Everything's to be diagetic except for maybe the immersion-breaking FTL org chat they've acknowledged they'll have break the speed-of-information rules for practicality reasons. [URL="https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/277938/cs-ticket-update"]Oh, and surprise, Glaives are being converted to LTI because people bitched and whined enough.[/URL] The Glaive not having LTI despite never being offered prior [I]is[/I] inconsistent with the policy they'd set, admittedly, but jfc RSI community

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;48438588]MobiGlas [I]is[/I] the game's interface. The escape menu's going to be gone entirely unless they change plans as usual. Everything's to be diagetic except for maybe the immersion-breaking FTL org chat they've acknowledged they'll have break the speed-of-information rules for practicality reasons. [URL="https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/277938/cs-ticket-update"]Oh, and surprise, Glaives are being converted to LTI because people bitched and whined enough.[/URL] The Glaive not having LTI despite never being offered prior [I]is[/I] inconsistent with the policy they'd set, admittedly, but jfc RSI community[/QUOTE] you mean we're [I]not [/I]going to be bound by transmitting data bound by the speed of light and radio transmission between systems, waiting hundreds of years for a pingback? pre order canceled

the issue with the animations is that because theyre doing the first person animations system, they need to have everything look good in both first person and from other perspectives which is very hard, especially with the relatively low FOV they've chosen to be default. thus the remakes once they try a thing and it doesnt work. I think its worth it though, this issue not existing alone is a huge deal for me: [video=youtube;L70bnsE5hJI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L70bnsE5hJI[/video] [QUOTE=Saber15;48438206]I think this is less of a case of pre-alpha and more of a case of lazy UI designers, considering that CryEngine natively supports changing graphical options within the game without any sort of restarting; all it would take for better graphics options would be some checkboxes for shit like VSync and the motion-sickness inducing motion blur. Why they locked down the console is beyond me. I would think that they would leave it unlocked so people can figure out what the hell is breaking would be a good idea. Adjusting my options on the fly in MWLL let me double my effective FPS when I was running on an old PC, without the fuss of having to constantly restart the game.[/QUOTE] I think the UI thing is because they're making all the UIs usable with joysticks and other non-mouse controllers, i cant be sure though. I dont know why they locked down the console either, that was very annoying. The config file con_restricted = 0 thing at least re-enabled the config commands. Then again, people are still cheating by putting weapons on their ship that cant fit because there's some validation still missing, maybe they wanted to stop some kind of exploit. Also the trick to making the radar bulb on the 300i readable is to turn off your lights with "o". by default there's no 30 fps cap last i checked, if you have vsync on or a 30 fps cap in your config file defined it might look that way though. been playing a lot of this lately though the latest patch has managed to destroy any semblence of playability in the 16 player matches, apparantly most people even on much better hardware than my 2010 era pc are getting similar average framerates around 20. Im using a harsh user.cfg file someone put together and turned my resolution down and i can get a stable 30 fps now, at least, but the servers disconnect before the game ends quite often. Oh well, at least it's fun when it works.

the unbelievable default FOV spits and shits in the face of the entire game's stated goal it's mind boggling.

[QUOTE=Mbbird;48438982]the unbelievable default FOV spits and shits in the face of the entire game's stated goal it's mind boggling.[/QUOTE] people shit on default FOVs but nobody stops to consider it's often set because it's the most natural visual distortion, when looking at a scene 'past' your screen face. It puts you comfortably into an environment instead of letting you loose in an unreal tournament MLG simulator. It's just plain more comfortable [I]to start with[/I] for the type of people who [I]don't [/I]rage out over FOV in the first place. If they don't include the slider, go ahead and complain, but having a default that doesn't suit you should be the [I]least [/I]of your worries when you know how to change it. your visual FOV is not quite the same as a game's. Your eyes distort through curvature and have areas of more and less density to sense lots of important detail in the center, while leaving the wide stuff as a side note. Conversely, most games/3D software in general do the easy thing and basically run off a linear 3-point perspective, because employing the proper distortion would cause a huge performance hit. Because of the way most game engines comfortably sit with this linear perspective skew, widening the perspective ends up granting too much importance to the perifery, at the sacrifice of having too little information on the things straight forward. [t]http://www.dansdata.com/images/gz124/160.jpg[/t] for a game like SC, it's wise to focus more on seeing forward, with look-around as a side-note. I'd bet getting trackIR running and it'd make a huge difference, allowing you to keep an optimal perspective whilst freeing up your ability to see the occasional junk off to the side

[QUOTE=Mattk50;48438964]the issue with the animations is that because theyre doing the first person animations system, they need to have everything look good in both first person and from other perspectives which is very hard, especially with the relatively low FOV they've chosen to be default. I think its worth it though, this issue not existing alone is a huge deal for me: [video=youtube;L70bnsE5hJI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L70bnsE5hJI[/video] [/QUOTE] Hey, this is familiar. [QUOTE=elixwhitetail;48321139]Also, via Reddit, here's something players won't have to put up with due to first- and third-person animations being unified in fps mode: [video=youtube;L70bnsE5hJI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L70bnsE5hJI[/video] Consider this next time you grumble about Star Marine being delayed. :buckteeth:[/QUOTE] The point you're making is still just as valid, of course. Also, [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3gk90l/discussion_unified_fpsthird_person_rig/ctyw983"]if you saw that here on Reddit[/URL], congrats, you found me. A 1.1.7 patch is being prepared, don't know what it will have. [URL="https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/5432286/#Comment_5432286"]It was mentioned by wleverett[/URL] while talking about an unfortunate bug that sometimes causes account info to be corrupted when it's sent into the game, making it currently unplayable. The workaround is to make a new account on the Gamescom code to unlock all ships so you can at least play [I]at all[/I] until they fix it; they have six days until the Gamescom code expires. Pray for rapid hotfixes, affected people. Also, altering the FOV is going to create a looooooooot of headaches for Zane and whoever's in charge of implementing both his UIs and the player helmet(s). [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/kwhyC40.jpg[/IMG] Sandi posted this photo from the Vanduul mocap shoot.

[QUOTE=dai;48439091]people shit on default FOVs but nobody stops to consider it's often set because it's the most natural visual distortion, when looking at a scene 'past' your screen face. It puts you comfortably into an environment instead of letting you loose in an unreal tournament MLG simulator. It's just plain more comfortable [I]to start with[/I] for the type of people who [I]don't [/I]rage out over FOV in the first place. If they don't include the slider, go ahead and complain, but having a default that doesn't suit you should be the [I]least [/I]of your worries when you know how to change it. your visual FOV is not quite the same as a game's. Your eyes distort through curvature and have areas of more and less density to sense lots of important detail in the center, while leaving the wide stuff as a side note. Conversely, most games/3D software in general do the easy thing and basically run off a linear 3-point perspective, because employing the proper distortion would cause a huge performance hit. Because of the way most game engines comfortably sit with this linear perspective skew, widening the perspective ends up granting too much importance to the perifery, at the sacrifice of having too little information on the things straight forward. [t]http://www.dansdata.com/images/gz124/160.jpg[/t] for a game like SC, it's wise to focus more on seeing forward, with look-around as a side-note. I'd bet getting trackIR running and it'd make a huge difference, allowing you to keep an optimal perspective whilst freeing up your ability to see the occasional junk off to the side[/QUOTE] However, vision and hearing being our only presence in the video game world, low FOVs murder the player's sense of presence and situational awareness. There is also legitimate concern that there will not be a slider or any official support for proper FOVs at all. [editline]11th August 2015[/editline] TrackIR though, I agree, is a different story. I don't agree, however, that a knife-fight space sim benefits from a narrow FOV.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;48438964] by default there's no 30 fps cap last i checked, if you have vsync on or a 30 fps cap in your config file defined it might look that way though. [/QUOTE] This was on a fresh install of the game, and Vsync in other games limits it ~60fps. [editline]11th August 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=dai;48439091] for a game like SC, it's wise to focus more on seeing forward, with look-around as a side-note. I'd bet getting trackIR running and it'd make a huge difference, allowing you to keep an optimal perspective whilst freeing up your ability to see the occasional junk off to the side[/QUOTE] That applies more to the spess ships, where like in a racing sim it is generally more important to be able to see the enemy ahead of you than it is to see around. However, Star Marine should adhere to the industry standard of at least >70 horizontal FOV, preferably 90 or 120. Situational awareness is far more important in a FPS where you don't have a magic all-knowing radar. Could just have the wide FOV when you're walking around stations or whatever, and have it dilate down when you sit down to fly or gun a ship.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;48439143] Also, altering the FOV is going to create a looooooooot of headaches for Zane and whoever's in charge of implementing both his UIs and the player helmet(s).[/QUOTE] i've seen games do 3d model overlays where it scaled with the fov, i dont think anyone would fault them if every animation and model *except* the helmet view was the same from third person as it is in first, for the sake of UI scaling. The main issue is the panels in the cockpit, especially the merlin, rather than the helmet HUD.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;48439143] Also, altering the FOV is going to create a looooooooot of headaches for Zane and whoever's in charge of implementing both his UIs and the player helmet(s). [/QUOTE] Just to clarify, this is what I mean when I say there might not actually be a slider. I might not actually play the game, which is pretty scary.

120 would be fucking awful, but I fully understand wider FOV in-person than in ship. 75 would be roughly my suggestion, wider than that and you start pinching your distance. I'd rather have just the person-view as a default, with the ship view basically enforcing you start with a certain zoom-in so you're presented with a more ideal FOV for the situation, but still have your personally set FOV as a max-zoom-out

[QUOTE=dai;48439621]120 would be fucking awful[/QUOTE] 120 is wonderful for navigation in 3d environments. It's what I use in Tribes.

[QUOTE=dai;48439621]120 would be fucking awful, but I fully understand wider FOV in-person than in ship. 75 would be roughly my suggestion, wider than that and you start pinching your distance. I'd rather have just the person-view as a default, with the ship view basically enforcing you start with a certain zoom-in so you're presented with a more ideal FOV for the situation, but still have your personally set FOV as a max-zoom-out[/QUOTE] are we talking 120/75 horizontal or vertical fov here? I dont remember what cryengine uses. Because 75 vertical is nearly perfect.

110 or bust.

[QUOTE=Saber15;48438061]Updated SC. I forgot how much I [I]hated[/I] the 300i; last time I played was with a free weekend Hornet. Whoever designed the HUD on the 300i should be shot; bright blue radar bulb against a bright blue background with bright blue ship icons for allies and barely visible pink icons for enemies. Also no gimbals was physically painful, even with a C117 Badger on the noise and the default guns on the wings. .[/QUOTE] Turning off the lights is the only way to make the 300 series bearable. That said, I understand the grief. I WANT to love my 315, but it's come so close to getting scrapped a dozen times because it's just not a very effective ship to fly. I really hope the redesign comes down soon, though I feel like it's on the backburner right now

[QUOTE=Saber15;48439708]120 is wonderful for navigation in 3d environments. It's what I use in Tribes.[/QUOTE] 120 is not what anyone is asking though. You have to admit that's pretty damn extreme.

[QUOTE=capgun;48439927]I really hope the redesign comes down soon, though I feel like it's on the backburner right now[/QUOTE] It is on the backburner for now. It's on the list, but it's not priority. I wouldn't expect it before the end of the year; they had a 3xx series free flight several weeks back, and the purpose of that was to collect feedback for the redesign. I wouldn't expect it to take 8 months (and counting) like the Connie redesign has, first because the 3xx series ships are substantially smaller, and second because the Connie and Freelancer redesigns also would've been the 'dry runs' for being run through the "take old ships and pull them up to standard" pipeline, and now they should have some experience with the overall workflow.

[QUOTE=dai;48437109][i]because [b]they don't know if an iteration is final or not[/b] until they do it an find out if it works or not[/i]. If you can't find your car keys, and after an hour figure out they were in your sock drawer, how stupid would it be for someone to say "well why did you waste all that time looking when you could have just gone straight to the sock drawer???" they're not psychic and wouldn't have done the other systems had they found the one that worked the first time around. It's how problem solving works, and while it's frustrating they've gone through so many iterations, it shows they're putting effort into making it work [i]right[/i]. imagine if we stayed with the janky rigs we've got in the hangar right now when FPS goes live[/QUOTE] did you read my other post? I know redoing stuff is the nature of development, but I just can't imagine why they'd have to redo the rig 3 times. I mean, this isn't some experimental feature like large worlds or the zone system, it's present in every game: so do other games iterate the rig 3-4 times over development? [QUOTE=dai;48439091]for a game like SC, it's wise to focus more on seeing forward, with look-around as a side-note. I'd bet getting trackIR running and it'd make a huge difference, allowing you to keep an optimal perspective whilst freeing up your ability to see the occasional junk off to the side[/QUOTE] yeah I think the low FOV is particularly useful in SC because of how far away shit is, even with the current ~80* fov stuff is pretty small on the screen, at 120* you'd be shooting at a tiny speck behind the target indicator

[QUOTE=Mbbird;48439976]120 is not what anyone is asking though. You have to admit that's pretty damn extreme.[/QUOTE] Oh yeah, 90 is perfectly acceptable. But having >90 FOV is a [I]really[/I] nice option. I love Serious Engine 3 games because of their stupid silly amount of options, including absurd FOVs.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;48438588]MobiGlas [I]is[/I] the game's interface. The escape menu's going to be gone entirely unless they change plans as usual. Everything's to be diagetic except for maybe the immersion-breaking FTL org chat they've acknowledged they'll have break the speed-of-information rules for practicality reasons. [URL="https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/277938/cs-ticket-update"]Oh, and surprise, Glaives are being converted to LTI because people bitched and whined enough.[/URL] The Glaive not having LTI despite never being offered prior [I]is[/I] inconsistent with the policy they'd set, admittedly, but jfc RSI community[/QUOTE] Some of this immersion stuff is getting a bit out of hand, this stuff always seems cool until you have to deal with it during gameplay and you immediately just want to skip it all. I fear the planetside stuff is going to go the same way X-Rebirth's Station stuff went and be tedious and boring to do that people beg them to let you do everything from your ship.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;48444419] I fear the planetside stuff is going to go the same way X-Rebirth's Station stuff went and be tedious and boring to do that people beg them to let you do everything from your ship.[/QUOTE] It's an unfortunate problem that seems to plague every game that shifts from a normal UI to a "immersive" system, though from what I've seen Mobiglass is pretty good; no silly animations, it's basically just like a HUD. Warframe used to have a normal UI, but it was replaced by a starship that you have to walk around in order to do the exact same thing you did before. People just use the escape button menu to teleport around the ship; and keep in mind, this ship is pretty small, like the size of a fast food restaurant at most. X: Rebirth had the aforementioned station issues, which was exacerbated by the lack of variety in stations (about 4 interiors per system, so 16 station interiors) and their general feeling of lifelessness. One of the early mods was to make it so you could trade without having to dock and walk around, another set the movement speed on stations to something silly like 60mph. It hit the X:R interface as well; the game has a nice diegetic interface on the ship, but it's slow and takes your eyes off the action, so mods and eventually Egosoft in version 2.5 made it an option to replace with it with a traditional HUD that was basically copy+pasted from X3: Terran Conflict.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;48444419]Some of this immersion stuff is getting a bit out of hand, this stuff always seems cool until you have to deal with it during gameplay and you immediately just want to skip it all. I fear the planetside stuff is going to go the same way X-Rebirth's Station stuff went and be tedious and boring to do that people beg them to let you do everything from your ship.[/QUOTE] Focusing on immersion has to be done exceedingly carefully, otherwise it will be at the cost of gameplay and that's pretty much never a good thing. In EVE Online, the Captain's Quarters is so useless that most people have it permanently disabled and "Walking in Stations" is unlikely to ever catch on. Why? Because the game is out in space, not on stations. The immersion was happening at the expense of gameplay (and performance holy shit). On the other hand... in Star Wars Galaxies (at least pre-NGE, no idea how it works now), to get extremely useful buffs you needed to occasionally pop into cantinas and chill out watching entertainers dance/play music. People would meet, talk, and even make friends. At first I thought it would be a cumbersome mechanic but it actually made the world more immersive while simultaneously improving gameplay (quite literally with the buff). Made finding groups interesting too. I've seen it done well and done badly, and things like SC's landing sequences feel like it's edging towards worse... but if you can get business done while landing (as opposed to basically watching a video) that would go a long way to improving it. [QUOTE=Saber15;48444854]Warframe used to have a normal UI, but it was replaced by a starship that you have to walk around in order to do the exact same thing you did before. People just use the escape button menu to teleport around the ship; and keep in mind, this ship is pretty small, like the size of a fast food restaurant at most.[/QUOTE] Ugh I hate the new Warframe UI. It's cumbersome and slow and clearly made for console/gamepad users. It's a very good example of "immersion" done wrong.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;48444419]Some of this immersion stuff is getting a bit out of hand, this stuff always seems cool until you have to deal with it during gameplay and you immediately just want to skip it all. I fear the planetside stuff is going to go the same way X-Rebirth's Station stuff went and be tedious and boring to do that people beg them to let you do everything from your ship.[/QUOTE] Star citizen is being built specifically to be immersive, though. That's one of their main focuses and it's been that way since the start. It's not just going to have things like that stuck as an afterthought, like with other games. All the things they're adding like the landing sequence are there for a reason, they're not being put into the game just because they can have it, they've said they don't want it to feel like a video game while you're playing it.

[QUOTE=nightlord;48445126]Star citizen is being built specifically to be immersive, though. That's one of their main focuses and it's been that way since the start. It's not just going to have things like that stuck as an afterthought, like with other games. All the things they're adding like the landing sequence are there for a reason, they're not being put into the game just because they can have it, they've said they don't want it to feel like a video game while you're playing it.[/QUOTE] It's an admirable goal. FlakAttack basically covered everything I would have said on the subject. It can be done, but it's very difficult to do right without feeling like a waste of time. If you want to say Galaxies was a space sim with a walking on planets portion, it worked because they literally had an [I]entire MMO's[/I] worth of content, depth, and activity to do planet side. If that doesn't tell you why I'm skeptical that Star Citizen can make planetside stuff interesting enough to be worthwhile, I don't know what will. I know that's certainly Star Citizen's intent. It's come to the point where they make it sound like they're basically remaking Star Wars Galaxies rather than a good space sim, and that worries me. I fear that Star Citizen won't end up doing anything well, not even the space sim stuff that I was looking forward to when this game was announced, and instead just be sort of okay at everything. To be fair, that's a powerful asset in itself, as there's no other game that tries to tie this much together, but it's a bit disappointing for me because I just wanted, and backed, Freelancer++.

[QUOTE=Why485;48445233]It's an admirable goal. FlakAttack basically covered everything I would have said on the subject. It can be done, but it's very difficult to do right without feeling like a waste of time. If you want to say Galaxies was a space sim with a walking on planets portion, it worked because they literally had an [I]entire MMO's[/I] worth of content, depth, and activity to do planet side. If that doesn't tell why I'm skeptical that Star Citizen can make planetside stuff interesting enough to be worthwhile, I don't know what will. I know that's certainly Star Citizen's intent. It's come to the point where they make it sound like they're basically remaking Star Wars Galaxies rather than a good space sim, and that worries me. I fear that Star Citizen won't end up doing anything well, not even the space sim stuff that I was looking forward to when this game was announced, and instead just be sort of okay at everything. To be fair, that's a powerful asset in itself, as there's no other game that tries to tie this much together, but it's a bit disappointing for me because I just wanted, and backed, Freelancer++.[/QUOTE] How is what the game is now any different than what was pitched? The scope may have increased, but the game itself is still going to be the same immersive persistent universe it was originally intended to be.

i keep getting disconnects from MP matches right before the end, about 4/5 of my last games have done it. At least im not spending rec thanks to the free fly code.

Well, I decided to give this a try, given the promotion going on right now. I can [I]just[/I] get it to run at a playable framerate by running in a window at a small resolution with low settings. My poor GTX 460 is just not up to the task. Is there some .cfg wizardry that will disable some critical FPS-hogging effect, or is it just time to put the old card out to pasture? That said, oh man I like this. I tried Vanduul Swarm with the Cutlass, and just the way everything [I]moves[/I] is so neat. Combat feels super acrobatic and fast. I figured out how to zoom into the HUD in the middle of a fight and it felt all space Top Gun. I worry about the viability of fixed weapons though.

[QUOTE=Plint;48447978]Is there some .cfg wizardry that will disable some critical FPS-hogging effect[/QUOTE] [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3g4qpi/faster_performance_usercfg_extra_settings_welcome/"]Yes there is.[/URL] [QUOTE=Plint;48447978]That said, oh man I like this. I tried Vanduul Swarm with the Cutlass, and just the way everything [I]moves[/I] is so neat. Combat feels super acrobatic and fast. I figured out how to zoom into the HUD in the middle of a fight and it felt all space Top Gun. I worry about the viability of fixed weapons though.[/QUOTE] Weapon balance is totally in the air, and I can tell you that a skilled pilot is able to output a lot of damage with fixed or gimbaled guns. I'll also tell you that controller balance and the gimbal/fixed weapon topic is a can of worms the size of the RSI forums themselves, and CIG is not going to go full-force on balancing input options and achieving parity until later on when the core flight/combat mechanics are nailed down and the game moves into the beta polish-and-balance phase. Right now, gimbal weapons in interactive mouse mode are objectively better than any other weapon/input combination, but in the hands of a pilot skilled equally in gimbal/relative mode, not by THAT much. Welcome to Star Citizen! Try out racing. :happy: