[QUOTE=KillRay;50021816]5ks do the same
I met some 5k (4.9 lol) guy who whined after I stomped his meme push strategy with a stack
I challenged him to a 1v1 and he pushed out even though he thought because my mmr was lower on that acct I was worse than him lol
Basically people are always bad[/QUOTE]
Still, I'd expect a 5, even a 4k mmr player to MAYBE actually have a point.
It might not mean everything and make it a "be all, end all" matter, but he did get to 4k, and probably not abusing the same hero over and over again, and not even being able to do it right all the time, after 900+ games with it.
Even the resident metawhore picker had more of a reason.
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;50021869]Still, I'd expect a 5, even a 4k mmr player to MAYBE actually have a point.
It might not mean everything and make it a "be all, end all" matter, but he did get to 4k, and probably not abusing the same hero over and over again, and not even being able to do it right all the time, after 900+ games with it.
Even the resident metawhore picker had more of a reason.[/QUOTE]
If u get to 6k only spamming heroes I'll at least have some respect due to who u play with. Ee said hero spammers still must have some skill to reach very high mmr because you still must have the map sense and mechanics to back it up generally.
Up to 5k and below tho ur stomping bads with op heroes. Inflated people and account buyers are really easy to spot
I don't really have a problem with hero spammers, I just couldn't do it myself because I'd get bored really quickly.
[QUOTE=Clovis;50021922]theres some 5k luckers out there me included, i dropped below 4.5 a few times since now, and i just dunno but i suck dick at the game at some heroes. i'll have a good game or two as a hero and then think yeah i get them, then i just have a shit game as them and i think well maybe i shouldnt pick them, and now i just pick whoever i think will work and hope i play decent as them :V[/QUOTE]
Hence why the thought of calling someone shit based on one performance alone doesn't makes sense to me.
I think everyone is this way, as in they could go for a game with whatever hero and decimate everything and everyone, and the next game they could almost be seen from the outside as genuine intentional feeders throwing themselves at the enemy in a rage/trolling fit.
It all comes down to how you make your choices for just about anything, and obviously how you can deal with situations.
The only way you could call someone out on being shit imo, is if they do everything wrong and play bad with no plausible excuses whatsoever.
All in all, there are waaay too many factors that can make or break a match. Even mindsets could make or break a match imo.
[editline]28th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=KillRay;50021966]If u get to 6k only spamming heroes I'll at least have some respect due to who u play with. Ee said hero spammers still must have some skill to reach very high mmr because you still must have the map sense and mechanics to back it up generally.
Up to 5k and below tho ur stomping bads with op heroes. Inflated people and account buyers are really easy to spot[/QUOTE]
Guess it means that you might actually have learned to use a specific hero and play it with success, no matter your team and the enemy team's lineup.
Kinda like that guy who only played WK and had like 20 wins in a row or more on top of not having almost any losses :v: (even though WK is easy, but also easy to counter I guess)
All this talk about nyx and you're forgetting he has a line-based impale that you can utilize with blink, which is one of the most important aspects of what makes him good. Nyx transitions into an initiator unlike bounty hunter, where most of his late-game utility is just getting gold.
KOTL 0 4 4 build is so legit and perfectly viable. It's also a great counter to Dark Seer early game ensuring your core actually gets some farm.
[QUOTE=Dzonintz;50023524]KOTL 0 4 4 build is so legit and perfectly viable. It's also a great counter to Dark Seer early game ensuring your core actually gets some farm.[/QUOTE]
Skipping an entire skill on a hero in general is retarded
[editline]29th March 2016[/editline]
I KNOW LETS TAKE STATS ON MEDUSA INSTEAD OF SPLITSHOT
How do you actually not take even 1 point of Illuminate
It's a huge chunk of Kotl's entire purpose in the game (lane poke, counterpush, getting farm that would otherwise be lost, HUGE heal with Aghs) and you just delay it till 10 or even skip it outright lol
[QUOTE=Dogass;50024211]Skipping an entire skill on a hero in general is retarded
[editline]29th March 2016[/editline]
I KNOW LETS TAKE STATS ON MEDUSA INSTEAD OF SPLITSHOT[/QUOTE]
That's not even what the original post implicated; it stated his first few levels would be invested into Mana Leak and Chakra; it never stated that you would skill stats instead of Illuminate.
Secondly, stats instead of splitshot early game [I]is[/I] viable; you don't need to push the wave out early unneccessarily and Medusa only has one laning skill that's really relevant, which often results in me taking a point on stats level 1 situationally.
Like, if you've ever taken a look at Medusa's early stats and growth, they're subpar.
Same thing with Anti-Mage's farming skill build; you don't skill more than one in each of his skills pre-6 because they're potent enough at level 1 for the early game and his Strength gain is awful.
[QUOTE=devon_wargod;50024302]How do you actually not take even 1 point of Illuminate
It's a huge chunk of Kotl's entire purpose in the game (lane poke, counterpush, getting farm that would otherwise be lost, HUGE heal with Aghs) and you just delay it till 10 or even skip it outright lol[/QUOTE]
I can't understand this either, I remember I had this raging fucktard who didn't put a single point in illuminate or light. There's making bad choices and there's "mom says I'm special!"
[QUOTE=Dogass;50024211]Skipping an entire skill on a hero in general is retarded
[editline]29th March 2016[/editline]
I KNOW LETS TAKE STATS ON MEDUSA INSTEAD OF SPLITSHOT[/QUOTE]
um kotl and medusa are two completely different heroes ur basically comparing mayonnaise to doritos go fuck ur mother
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting" - Bradyns))[/highlight]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/XDCZIZA.png[/IMG]
Hey Magenta Magic Man is preeetty good.
Just found out that Invoker has a victory animation (and injured running animation). Pretty neato, it's always nice when Valve just randomly adds in animations like that (like Slardar's victory dance. :v:)
[QUOTE=devon_wargod;50024302]How do you actually not take even 1 point of Illuminate
It's a huge chunk of Kotl's entire purpose in the game (lane poke, counterpush, getting farm that would otherwise be lost, HUGE heal with Aghs) and you just delay it till 10 or even skip it outright lol[/QUOTE]
Because you're pos 5 and realistically you're not getting that aghs. That illuminate has quite a bit of chance of scratching the creep wave thus pushing the lane, also if you're pos 4/5 then you're not going to be taking creepwaves of your cores unless there is absolutely noone near them, and by that time it wiill be mid game already and you'll have it leveled anyway. Not to mention that Illuminate costs quite a bit of mana and it's better off you give that mana from Chakram to your core.
[QUOTE=Dzonintz;50025331]Because you're pos 5 and realistically you're not getting that aghs. That illuminate has quite a bit of chance of scratching the creep wave thus pushing the lane, also if you're pos 4/5 then you're not going to be taking creepwaves of your cores unless there is absolutely noone near them, and by that time it wiill be mid game already and you'll have it leveled anyway.[/QUOTE]
If u know how to aim and position it might hit ONE creep occasionally
Also of course you're not gonna farm an aghs when you don't have illuminate lol
[QUOTE=devon_wargod;50025341]If u know how to aim and position it might hit ONE creep occasionally
Also of course you're not gonna farm an aghs when you don't have illuminate lol[/QUOTE]
You don't get it, you're irrelevant and you are not supposed to be taking creepwaves regardless if you have illuminate or not.
A KotL without his super god nuke isn't relevant
Hmm I wonder why
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't dear Devon completely right?
He is, right?
Devon's always right.
Listen to Devon.
[QUOTE=mochisushi;50025384]Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't dear Devon completely right?
He is, right?
Devon's always right.
Listen to Devon.[/QUOTE]
Not always but usually
[editline]29th March 2016[/editline]
To put it in nicer less-assholey words, basically back when Puppey drafted Kotl for himself a ton while on Secret, he did some huge work with Kotl that made the hero look insane, and a lot of it was in how well he used Illuminate. He was able to snipe farm that his team otherwise would have never seen, get huge teamfight-winning illuminates by hitting like 3+ heroes with it, and in lane the offlaner couldn't get shit for XP, because he'd just eat a wave of ghost horses if he went anywhere near XP range.
By comparison, while Mana Leak scales pretty good, it doesn't scale well enough to warrant rushing to max it out early, while Illuminate does fall off as the game goes on. At full charge for level 4 though, it deals 500 magic damage before resistance, which is [B]375[/B] after resistance, AND it's AOE. Most nukes that deal 300 BEFORE resistance don't even get to be AOE.
Better yet, since it has so much range as well, there's a ton of things you can do with it. Stop pushes way in advance, zone the enemy team away from objectives, do some clever jungling techniques that will help you farm your Aghs, etc. The versatility and utility that Illuminate really has, despite being an ability that just does damage, becomes irreplaceable once you get a feel for using it.
Maxing Chakra before Illuminate is fine, don't get me wrong, but it feels almost incorrect to just ignore Illuminate until 10, especially with how unnecessary extra Mana Leak levels feel. It's up frequently enough at level 1 that you'll still ruin that Dark Seer's day, maybe even get a second point if you want to rub it in, but level 4 only really starts being huge in mid/late game.
Nothing is more fun than playing an old man, have him stroke his staff in the trees, waiting for him to blow and then hit the enemy with all the ponies.
[QUOTE=Skunky;50025564]Nothing is more fun than playing an old man, have him stroke his staff in the trees, waiting for him to blow and then hit the enemy with all the ponies.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/4/45/Keep_move_16.mp3[/url]
I don't know if you guys are pretending to be stupid or what, but I obviously meant this for early game, I didn't mean that you don't level illuminate for the whole game.
Here's an example of this build being viable
[url]http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2256606440[/url]
Open this game and watch it ingame for a first few minutes to see why you're wrong.
[editline]29th March 2016[/editline]
You're also seriously underestimating the lowering of Mana Leak's cd with each new level, on level 4 you only have 2 second downtime on it.
[QUOTE=KillRay;50021816]5ks do the same
I met some 5k (4.9 lol) guy who whined after I stomped his meme push strategy with a stack
I challenged him to a 1v1 and he pushed out even though he thought because my mmr was lower on that acct I was worse than him lol
Basically people are always bad[/QUOTE]
"OooOOooh, 1v1 me in a game that revolves around team work and gang-banging the shit out of solo enemies, team fighting etc."
"Yeah."
[editline]29th March 2016[/editline]
Like, you might as well invite them to your home, then see who jerks off the fastest.
[QUOTE=Dzonintz;50025349]You don't get it, you're irrelevant and you are not supposed to be taking creepwaves regardless if you have illuminate or not.[/QUOTE]
Creep waves arent your only way of getting farm, stack the jungle like a support is supposed to, and farm those.
You're limiting your farm and your roaming potential by putting all your eggs in one basket, you're rellying on everyone else to do damage for early kills and all you're contributing to a kill is a mana drain, your pathetic right clicks and maybe a short stun. All well and good, as long as the the hero you're ganking isnt someone who can shrug off early game damage (bristle, beast master).
You're missing out on a long range harassment tool, that gives vison into fog, and that can seriously help out on securing lane domination.
Or stack the jungle and actually leave it to cores who will benefit from them way more than you will. Also IDK what you're talking about since mana leak is perfect for punishing people out of position early game, especially if you tp mid when enemy tries to dive and similar, so even if the gank fails you leave enemy mid mana starved and ensure your midder's dominance.
Leaving offlaner mana starved while harassed with only right clicks instead of using illuminate and risking missing him while ruining creep equilibrium and spending a lot of mana is often way better alternative.
Stacking jungle? [I]For others?[/I] Ahhhhh-ahaha. That's a good joke if I ever heard one.
Reminds me of the "good old times" when I used to stack a shit ton of creeps for my team. Like, more than anyone I've ever played with. (Same goes for buying wards.)
Then I noticed that no one else does it as actively as I did, so I stopped doing it, and only stack camps for myself.
And if some carrier steals as little as one creep from me, it's an immediate mute & report, and then proceed steal from them what they stole from me.
Then again, those "good old times" were like 1000 MMR higher than where I am now... :suicide:
[QUOTE=Dzonintz;50025331]Because you're pos 5 and realistically you're not getting that aghs. That illuminate has quite a bit of chance of scratching the creep wave thus pushing the lane, also if you're pos 4/5 then you're not going to be taking creepwaves of your cores unless there is absolutely noone near them, and by that time it wiill be mid game already and you'll have it leveled anyway. Not to mention that Illuminate costs quite a bit of mana and it's better off you give that mana from Chakram to your core.[/QUOTE]
Realistically u won't ever havery illuminate ever leveled either being a pos 5 you will likely be behind on levels especially now that you removed your way of being able to go level by yourself in the woods and garner farm by yourself. You've also removed 2/3rds or ur ults effectiveness and now lost all way of defending pushes and making yourself a much weaker hero in team fights
Idk where u think levels come from but sitting in lane next to ur carry and sapping until u hit ur level 8/9 to max ur very average skill is a waste of ur time and makes your carry mad generally because it's pointless when you can go be self sufficient with illuminate
Mana leak is a good skill at just one point
[editline]29th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50025798]"OooOOooh, 1v1 me in a game that revolves around team work and gang-banging the shit out of solo enemies, team fighting etc."
"Yeah."
[editline]29th March 2016[/editline]
Like, you might as well invite them to your home, then see who jerks off the fastest.[/QUOTE]
The game also relies on individual mechanical skill, decision making and laning prowess
1v1ing is a grand tradition where I've gotten people banned on other dota forums. Rules are simple: win on first blood or cs at 10, sf v sf, loser gets bent
Want to try it out
I am also against putting 0 points in illuminate.
You argue that mana leak has a 2 second downtime while maxed, but with 0-2-2 it only has a 4 second downtime; you just have to chakra magic yourself for the cd reduction first.
Despite what people think supports DO need to farm, lest they become food for the enemy team.
I can accept putting 4 points in mana leak for that nice 3 second stun, but if your only spell costs 75 mana what do you need max chakra magic for?
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