Fallout 4 V24: You're Tied to This Thread Kid, Your Energy - Games

Does anyone else think that the sturdy metal arms were supposed to have elbow guards like the standard and heavy sets do? I know it's minor but it bothers me, because I don't like the arm blades on the heavy variant. You can see what I mean if you compare the elbows [url=http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/8/8b/FO4-nate-metal.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20151117235423]here[/url] and [url=http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/d/d1/FO4-nate-sturdy-metal.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20151117235516] here. [/url]

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49351324]The character is already forced and people who dislike this kind of stuff are already displeased. If they're travelling this road already, might as well go all the way Doing the voiced protagonist schtick with a defined background but not using it fully for the few good points it adds is a lazy alternative that displeases both who didn't wanted any of this shit and those who liked it but felt it was lacking because the character has some personality but his personality is as deep as a pond. Using myself as an example, i don't like the voiced protagonist, i don't like his backstory and i would rather have the protagonists like they were in the older games. But they're this way in F4 and there's nothing i can do about it. So if you're giving him a voice whether i like it or not you might as well make him use it and comment about stuff in a meaningful way so the personality you wanted me so much to play regardless will at least be justified.[/QUOTE] there is absolutely nothing wrong with an RPG forcing a character on you. Witcher series basically does that, and they're really good RPGs. RPGs don't have to let the player have a blank state. Forcing a [I][B]bad[/B][/I] character on you however, or executing that character incorrectly (e.g. having conflicting views or poor implementation of consequences to dialogue choices) is terrible, and that's what fo4 does. I would have no problem with the forced character in FO4 if it was done right, but it wasn't.

[QUOTE=ClarkWasHere;49351397]there is absolutely nothing wrong with an RPG forcing a character on you.[/QUOTE] That was not my point at all. The problem is the Fallout series always gave you the tools and the means to create your player the way you want and change the world around you according to your choices. The game even sold itself over this freedom in the old days. There's nothing wrong with a forced character in a linear story for other RPGs. There is a problem with doing the same with Fallout, though. That's the point. Unless the execution is [I]really well done[/I] which is far from being F4 case.

If it was some kind of Fallout spinoff instead of a main Fallout game, I'd be fine with a predefined player character as well, but in a series that's had such a long tradition of letting players shape the identity of their avatar, taking that away just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[QUOTE=Everything;49350828]If they're going to have a pre-characterized, voiced protagonist anyway, I don't see how the implication of "hey, I existed before all this shit happened" would be a problem. If anything it would make more sense, and give him/her a bit more charm.[/QUOTE] Because people are getting whiny at any form of characterization and if a character even remotely voices an opinion about anything or anyone then some players will take it as a personal insult because it makes it harder to rp as specific character archetypes. I'm actually curious as to what Bethesda could have done if they had went all the way and straight up made the character unchangeable in personality, gender and name and pretty much only kept changing the face as an available feature but people would have absolutely beheaded them for trying that (more than now, that is). At this point it's pretty obvious there's a specific group of people who play Bethesda games who will just take a shit on anything they do regardless of what it is, anyway.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49351420]I'm actually curious as to what Bethesda could have done if they had went all the way and straight up made the character unchangeable in personality, gender and name and pretty much only kept changing the face as an available feature but people would have absolutely beheaded them for trying that (more than now, that is). [/QUOTE] Funny of you to mention this, because even Sheppard and Gerard had more meaningful characterization and choices than the Sole Survivor [QUOTE=Ganerumo;49351420] At this point it's pretty obvious there's a specific group of people who play Bethesda games who will just take a shit on anything they do regardless of what it is, anyway.[/QUOTE] The only obvious thing here is that you will jump to defend Bethesda even if they take a shit on your doorstep and call it a christmas gift.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49351420]Because people are getting whiny at any form of characterization and if a character even remotely voices an opinion about anything or anyone then some players will take it as a personal insult because it makes it harder to rp as specific character archetypes. I'm actually curious as to what Bethesda could have done if they had went all the way and straight up made the character unchangeable in personality, gender and name and pretty much only kept changing the face as an available feature but people would have absolutely beheaded them for trying that (more than now, that is). At this point it's pretty obvious there's a specific group of people who play Bethesda games who will just take a shit on anything they do regardless of what it is, anyway.[/QUOTE] I can't tell whether it's funny, annoying, or just sad how you feel compelled to defend Bethesda from all those nasty haters. You're not even defending Bethesda's decision to strip out player choice in the main character, because there's really nothing to defend about it. All you do is complain about how unfair and biased the complainers are.

[QUOTE=Hamaflavian;49351456]I can't tell whether it's funny, annoying, or just sad how you feel compelled to defend Bethesda from all those nasty haters. You're not even defending Bethesda's decision to strip out player choice in the main character, because there's really nothing to defend about it. All you do is complain about how unfair and biased the complainers are.[/QUOTE] No I'm complaining about the fact that there's people in this thread who insist on shitting on Bethesda constantly to the point where it's absolutely fucking stupid. It doesn't even happen that much with the TES player base because people are still somewhat civil on that side, but when it comes to Fallout you have the "true fan" clique that appears every page trying to prove that Bethesda is destroying the franchise because of aspects that are either completely inconsequential or widely over-exaggerated in their importance.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49351492]because of aspects that are either completely inconsequential or widely over-exaggerated in their importance.[/QUOTE] Yeah, those dumb beth haters wanting a game they never said it was crap to have better characterization, meaningful choices and RPG elements, what do they think Fallout is, a RPG? Here, take another box, you really want them today don't you

hey you know what was a really cool thing in mass effect that fo4 had basically no reason not to do? being able to pick your character's upbringing and military background and having it actually affect things they could have done exactly that in Fo4 through early-game dialogue to at least give some degree of self-consistency and depth, like you're playing an actual character. they could literally just lift the three backgrounds straight from ME, "i've thought off armored columns this shouldn't be a problem" for war heroes, "i still get nightmares about [I]X[/I] mission" for natural survivors or Solid Snake knockoffs, "used to shooting POW's" if you're an evil guy, etc. but instead you just get nothing everything is just nothing

[QUOTE=Cone;49351632]hey you know what was a really cool thing in mass effect that fo4 had basically no reason not to do? being able to pick your character's upbringing and military background and having it actually affect things they could have done exactly that in Fo4 through early-game dialogue to at least give some degree of self-consistency and depth, like you're playing an actual character. they could literally just lift the three backgrounds straight from ME, "i've thought off armored columns this shouldn't be a problem" for war heroes, "i still get nightmares about [I]X[/I] mission" for natural survivors or Solid Snake knockoffs, "used to shooting POW's" if you're an evil guy, etc. but instead you just get nothing everything is just nothing[/QUOTE] They coulda fucking worked that shit into the conversation with Vault-Tec Guy at the start.

Jesus christ [sp]Swan[/sp] scared the shit out of me when I was taking a shortcut across that area. I had no idea he was even a thing, and suddenly I got blitzed within like two seconds.

[QUOTE=KaptonJack;49349602]I'm still working on the OP, don't worry yet guys. Once I have some more time I'll add in the Fallout 4 section with the recommended mods. It's coming! I haven't forgotten. [editline]19th December 2015[/editline] On another note, the guy making the Ranger Armor for Fallout 4 posted a progress update today; [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWlruuRU4AA-igK.jpg:large[/IMG][/QUOTE] I think the slit on the coat is too big. A little.

[QUOTE=Everything;49351647]Jesus christ [sp]Swan[/sp] scared the shit out of me when I was taking a shortcut across that area. I had no idea he was even a thing, and suddenly I got blitzed within like two seconds.[/QUOTE] Same thing happened to me except I found the nearest hole in the fence and exploited that to my advantage.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49351420] At this point it's pretty obvious there's a specific group of people who play Bethesda games who will just take a shit on anything they do regardless of what it is, anyway.[/QUOTE] What. Bethesda are behind the elder scrolls. I am a massive elder scrolls fan, i have [b]far[/b] more praise than i do critique for the series and consider it to be one of my favourite fantasy settings. I'm severely disappointed with an awful lot of the stuff bethesda has done in regards to the fallout series. none of their games are *bad*, but comparing their work on fallout to that of other developers shows that they have a far more generic interpretation of the IP, and their writers are simply not up to the task of handling such an extensive plot, likely because they didn't write it themselves. they have consistently bland interpretations of interesting factions and crap solutions to the complex problems the fallout universe likes to stir up. not to mention the nasty habit they have of contradicting or disregarding existing lore. You might not think it's a big deal, for whatever reason, but some of us do. If someone made a game set in world war two, and had gadgets and technology that was yet to be invented showing up all over the place, people would think they were incompetent and lazy, but when bethesda does it in fallout we are supposed to ignore it. I don't want every fallout game to be about a boring dude with a lame back-story leaving a vault to find a lost family member in a ruined city full of super mutants- especially if they can't be bothered to come up with a decent reason as to why the mutants are back. Notice how my opinion changes drastically between both games, despite the fact they were both made by bethesda?, it's almost like the reason im disappointed in fallout 4 goes beyond "bethesda made it" Plus id like to point out that it looks like a lot of people are getting real tired of your constant [i]"Just eat around the shit!"[/i] defences whenever they have any form of critique for a bethesda fallout game. The games are pretty good and you like them but that doesn't mean they have to be universally regarded as immaculate works of genius, with any filthy heretics that dare to have a dissenting opinion being ignored as madmen for their obvious lack of vision.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49351492]No I'm complaining about the fact that there's people in this thread who insist on shitting on Bethesda constantly to the point where it's absolutely fucking stupid. It doesn't even happen that much with the TES player base because people are still somewhat civil on that side, but when it comes to Fallout you have the "true fan" clique that appears every page trying to prove that Bethesda is destroying the franchise because of aspects that are either completely inconsequential or widely over-exaggerated in their importance.[/QUOTE] Except that the Elder Scrolls games have always been Bethesda's project, and have always reflected a very particular experience even if the fundamental systems underneath that experience have changed from game to game. Fallout has a different legacy to live up to, and where Bethesda's design philosophies succeed at producing Elder Scrolls games, they do noticeably worse at producing Fallout games. So no wonder that TES fans and Fallout fans evaluate their respective games differently. It's disheartening that you'd boil down the differences between the two as one of civility vs. rudeness.

You know what would be an interesting and probably pretty easy mod? At the start of the game, after filling out your SPECIAL values, the perk sheet comes up and you can select any two perks - or level 2 of any one perk - your SPECIAL qualifies you for. You start the game somewhat specialized, making the first couple hours a lot less tedious. So, say, if you know you want to do a big guns playthrough, you can start yourself with heavy gunner 1 and gun nut 1, or even heavy gunner 2 right away.

[QUOTE=Hatley;49351640]They coulda fucking worked that shit into the conversation with Vault-Tec Guy at the start.[/QUOTE] or even the veteran's ball, you could be like "oh i gotta polish my thirty billion purple hearts i got in Canada" or just super bitter and not planning on going, or just expecting no one to recognize you with the implication that you're a shady company agent so much room for character-building that was paid absolutely no consideration

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49351420]Because people are getting whiny at any form of characterization and if a character even remotely voices an opinion about anything or anyone then some players will take it as a personal insult because it makes it harder to rp as specific character archetypes. I'm actually curious as to what Bethesda could have done if they had went all the way and straight up made the character unchangeable in personality, gender and name and pretty much only kept changing the face as an available feature but people would have absolutely beheaded them for trying that (more than now, that is). At this point it's pretty obvious there's a specific group of people who play Bethesda games who will just take a shit on anything they do regardless of what it is, anyway.[/QUOTE] A thing i've noticed from the last few threads since launch, not ONCE have you not jumped to defend Bethesda from any sort of criticism. It's like you think they didnt do anything wrong about the game.

Didn't you guys hear? To like a game you need to love everything about it. If you dislike just one thing you must hate the whole game.

[QUOTE=KaptonJack;49349602]I'm still working on the OP, don't worry yet guys. Once I have some more time I'll add in the Fallout 4 section with the recommended mods. It's coming! I haven't forgotten. [editline]19th December 2015[/editline] On another note, the guy making the Ranger Armor for Fallout 4 posted a progress update today; [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWlruuRU4AA-igK.jpg:large[/IMG][/QUOTE] The helmet/mask still looks off to me. The brim(?) comes out too close to the bottom, the curve is too extreme, and doesn't extend out quite enough. It should start to curve forward higher with a shallower angle. It also extends WAY too far to the sides, the edge of the forehead and the side should be almost uniform. [t]http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18s8x6maxkvnbjpg/original.jpg[/t] Like that, shallower angle, higher start point, slightly further forward end, and keep the edges uniform. Also the mask is too low under the eyes, it should be higher and ever so slightly further forward. Not to the point where it looks like a muzzle, but it should look like there's room for a nose underneath.

Visit Covenant before you finish the main quest. The whole quest chain is broken and doesn't work if you try to do it after :smile:

I actually did it after completing the main quest.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;49351660]I think the slit on the coat is too big. A little.[/QUOTE] Most likely it's there to allow free movement with walk/run animations so the mesh doesn't get stretched across the two bone rigs and create texture stretching.

[QUOTE=Starship;49351807]A thing i've noticed from the last few threads since launch, not ONCE have you not jumped to defend Bethesda from any sort of criticism. It's like you think they didnt do anything wrong about the game.[/QUOTE] I literally just said the characterization was fucked up because it didn't know where to sit between full character centric and full blank slate. Hell if you want a bunch of gripes I have with the game I'll happily post a list of them.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;49351839]The helmet/mask still looks off to me. The brim(?) comes out too close to the bottom, the curve is too extreme, and doesn't extend out quite enough. It should start to curve forward higher with a shallower angle. It also extends WAY too far to the sides, the edge of the forehead and the side should be almost uniform. [t]http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18s8x6maxkvnbjpg/original.jpg[/t] Like that, shallower angle, higher start point, slightly further forward end, and keep the edges uniform. Also the mask is too low under the eyes, it should be higher and ever so slightly further forward. Not to the point where it looks like a muzzle, but it should look like there's room for a nose underneath.[/QUOTE] Keep those crits coming! Haven't done any mesh tweaks since I started texturing; that will all be finalized after the textures are complete, but I love seeing stuff like this, so we can get it closer than my clunky eyes can see! [QUOTE=Snood_1990;49351921]Most likely it's there to allow free movement with walk/run animations so the mesh doesn't get stretched across the two bone rigs and create texture stretching.[/QUOTE] Spot on mate. More cloth physics, less clipping, better visual interest.

[QUOTE=Snood_1990;49351921]Most likely it's there to allow free movement with walk/run animations so the mesh doesn't get stretched across the two bone rigs and create texture stretching.[/QUOTE] which will most likely be a non issue for fallout 4 when cloth physics are applied to it.

[QUOTE=Combine 177;49351913]I actually did it after completing the main quest.[/QUOTE] Lucky! Apparently though for some people it's based on a set of specific choices you make leading to Honest Dan being completely and inadvertently deleted. Oh also it could be speech-checking into the town without actually taking the test, because that's fair too.

[QUOTE=Everything;49351736]You know what would be an interesting and probably pretty easy mod? At the start of the game, after filling out your SPECIAL values, the perk sheet comes up and you can select any two perks - or level 2 of any one perk - your SPECIAL qualifies you for. You start the game somewhat specialized, making the first couple hours a lot less tedious. So, say, if you know you want to do a big guns playthrough, you can start yourself with heavy gunner 1 and gun nut 1, or even heavy gunner 2 right away.[/QUOTE] Would have actually been interesting if the game gave you a couple of perks depending on the gender you picked, or at least had some more interesting dialogue options related to your background than mentioning you were in the army once.

must have been hard to decide on a balance. Too many references to how you're a popsicle adds to the "Bethesda's character" idea, but not enough and now you're not realistically talking about a very important experience to your character.