Fallout 4 V24: You're Tied to This Thread Kid, Your Energy - Games

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;49553310]Lockpicking and Hacking being perks now is not fine IMO. Instead of having a perk to pick from and then spreading out your skill points on lockpicking, you have to waste a level now when there are better perks to pick from. Doesn't help you have to get to level 18 and have a PER of 4 to even attempt master locks. The skill system allowed me to lockpick master locks as earlier as level 6-7 if I put all my points into lockpicking.[/QUOTE] You have the exact same problem though. If you dump all your points into lockpicking for the first few levels your other skills will be underdeveloped. The old system had the added problem of the lockpicking and hacking being pure dumps for points. Levelling up guns a little will give a miniscule boost you your ability to use guns, levelling up lockpicking does literally nothing if you don't hit one of the thresholds.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49553255]I think the new perk system works fine. The old skill system felt redundant in a game that no longer bases every action on RNG and instead bases them mostly on player skill. There's no point on basing the lockpick skill on a 100 point system when only four tiers mattered (25/50/75/100) and the actual lockpicking being a proper minigame and not a diceroll.[/QUOTE] I don't feel at a terrible loss about it, but they didn't really make an meaningful improvements. They took out a confusing and underwhelming skill system and replaced it with a confusing and underwhelming skill system. As for lockpicking and stuff, the issue there is more that lockpicking is just an arbitrary skill-gate in general, you can't smash containers or buy better lockpicking sets, etc. The lockpicking just sucks and has sucked since Fallout 3, and it's still business as usual in that department. Fallout 1/2 still have the best skill/perk system for the most part. The perk chart isn't terrible but most of the non-combat game mechanics still doesn't hold a candle to how things were done in F1/F2, in general. If they just better thought out the non-combat game mechanics and used non-linear skill checks then I still would have preffered a number-based system. Like rather than having a 25/50/75/100 lockpick system, I'd much prefer the old method where each lock has a 1-200 difficulty, and have lockpick sets in the game that you can have equipped to buff your lockpick skill. IMO the 1-300% diminishing return system was great. There was effectively no "limit" to how good you could be at something, and you place your skill points purely on how much you value those specific skills. [QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;49553261]I was talking about FNAF. Fallout 4 did atmosphere really well, much better than 3.[/QUOTE] Ah sorry then, glossed over that part of the discussion

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49553289]That's not what shovelware means[/QUOTE] shovelware meants quantity of features over quality of features radiant quests are quantity of features over quality of features it's not shovelware in the traditional sense where it's a buttload of separate applications bundled into one box but distinct executables isn't really what matters here

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;49553339]You have the exact same problem though. If you dump all your points into lockpicking for the first few levels your other skills will be underdeveloped. The old system had the added problem of the lockpicking and hacking being pure dumps for points. Levelling up guns a little will give a miniscule boost you your ability to use guns, levelling up lockpicking does literally nothing if you don't hit one of the thresholds.[/QUOTE] But it still gave you the choice to do it. Here is "We don't want you to have this skill level of lockpicking yet" Like I said, you were still able to pick a perk before choosing your skills so it is not a waste of a level.

[QUOTE=butre;49553344]shovelware meants quantity of features over quality of features radiant quests are quantity of features over quality of features it's not shovelware in the traditional sense where it's a buttload of separate applications bundled into one but distinct executables isn't really what matters here[/QUOTE] Shovelware is a cheap product that is 'shovelled' out to get additional revenue, either as a supplement to a larger product (film tie-in games) or as a scattershot attempt to make money (the billion party games on the Wii or the hundred Candy Crush variants).

[QUOTE=butre;49553344]shovelware meants quantity of features over quality of features radiant quests are quantity of features over quality of features it's not shovelware in the traditional sense where it's a buttload of separate applications bundled into one box but distinct executables isn't really what matters here[/QUOTE] No that's not what shovelware means Shovelware is a cheap piece of software entirely designed to be sold for quick easy cash with no regards for quality, consistency or enjoyment from the consumer. It's not a concept that applies to AAA titles because AAA titles are, by their very nature, too expensive to be shovelware.

popstation type games are the classic example of shovelware and it's a bunch of the same game over and over again with different sprites. not too dissimilar from radiant quests, which is the same quest over and over again with different enemies or fetch items

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;49553351]But it still gave you the choice to do it. Here is "We don't want you to have this skill level of lockpicking yet"[/QUOTE] I agree that having perks be level restricted is stupid, but that's not a problem of lockpicking being a perk, that's a problem with Bethesda trying too hard to gate progression.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;49553351]But it still gave you the choice to do it. Here is "We don't want you to have this skill level of lockpicking yet"[/QUOTE] Well yeah because otherwise the game'd be fucking broken since you could run back to the vault and get a super strong weapon within 45 minutes of completing the tutorial level. A ton of games restrict access to some of the perks/abilities based on your level, be it with a literal level restriction or by simply putting it so far up the skill tree you'll only realistically be able to get it at like level 20, which is what Skyrim does. It's a simple sensible design decision.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49553392]Well yeah because otherwise the game'd be fucking broken since you could run back to the vault and get a super strong weapon within 45 minutes of completing the tutorial level. A ton of games restrict access to some of the perks/abilities based on your level, be it with a literal level restriction or by simply putting it so far up the skill tree you'll only realistically be able to get it at like level 20, which is what Skyrim does. It's a simple sensible design decision.[/QUOTE] Yeah. I super strong weapon you won't have the caps or ammo for. Perks are perfectly fine to be locked behind levels and specials. Those are what perks are meant for.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49553395]ok but the difference between a pop station game or party babiez and fallout 4's radiant quests is that the former is software you purchase separately whereas the latter is a small part of a single bit of software you purchase[/QUOTE] And features thrown in a game to inflate its content is usually referred to as padding or window dressing, not as shovelware.

[QUOTE=butre;49553378]popstation type games are the classic example of shovelware and it's a bunch of the same game over and over again with different sprites. not too dissimilar from radiant quests, which is the same quest over and over again with different enemies or fetch items[/QUOTE] There's nothing intrinsically wrong with radiant quests, but they just relied on them way too much. Each faction should had had like, 1-2 radiant quests and that's it. Even fallout 1 and fallout 2 had the repeatable caravan guard quests, or repeatable slaving runs, etc. It's fairly important to provide a few repeatable quests just to pad things out a little bit, but they went overboard with it. There's like 3 written side-quests for each faction, and like 5 radiant quests, it's nuts.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;49553401]Yeah. I super strong weapon you won't have the caps or ammo for.[/QUOTE] You get 200 cells immediately upon obtaining the weapon.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;49553351]But it still gave you the choice to do it. Here is "We don't want you to have this skill level of lockpicking yet" Like I said, you were still able to pick a perk before choosing your skills so it is not a waste of a level.[/QUOTE] speaking of lockpicking I wish someone would make a semi-realistic lockpicking minigame. something like oblivion's lockpicking but in real time would be great

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;49553412]There's nothing intrinsically wrong with radiant quests, but they just relied on them way too much. Each faction should had had like, 1-2 radiant quests and that's it. Even fallout 1 and fallout 2 had the repeatable caravan guard quests, or repeatable slaving runs, etc. It's fairly important to provide a few repeatable quests just to pad things out a little bit, but they went overboard with it. There's like 3 written side-quests for each faction, and like 5 radiant quests, it's nuts.[/QUOTE] It's a matter of radiant quests clumsily replacing full written quests that's the problem. If you look back at Skyrim, it's the difference between the bartenders giving you radiant bounty quests, and the thieves guilding consisting almost entirely of radiant quests. Only the former is fine.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49553419]You get 200 cells immediately upon obtaining the weapon.[/QUOTE] That won't last you very long. And to make it powerful you need the gun nut perk.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49553408]And features thrown in a game to inflate its content is usually referred to as padding or window dressing, not as shovelware.[/QUOTE] I don't mind inflated content as long as it's not fucking radiant quests. make the map bigger and more sparse or something, I'd be perfectly happy to spend more time walking between settlements