Fallout 4 V24: You're Tied to This Thread Kid, Your Energy - Games

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49361318]Obsidian talked a while back about possible locals for a future Fallout game of them, with them having huge interest in the Boneyard and how things would have progressed there. This would be something Bethesda could help visually with because Obsidian isn't that large compared to Bethesda for stuff like this. Obsidian is just a small developer who knows how to make damn good RPGs (hence the reason there wasn't much room for visual upgrades and so much cut content because of their timeframe and size) and Bethesda is a pretty big developer who make pretty damn visually stunning open (Fallout) worlds, but lack the depth of Obsidian's Fallout games.[/QUOTE] Obsidian isn't that small. They were about 50 people back in 2008.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49361353]Obsidian isn't that small. They were about 50 people back in 2008.[/QUOTE] They were also in dire financial needs during NV which is why they had to rely on the metacritic bonus clause from Bethesda. Many of those were dismissed when they couldn't get it (some during the game production, even). The limited time frame also meant that every single employee had way more on their hands than just what they were initially supposed to do

Finally got sick of the BOS invading my airspace all the time at Red Rocket Station after warning them time and time again (at least in my head, I did) So the next time I heard those vertibird blades, I step outside, take my .50 two-shot hunting rifle, go in VATS, target the pilot's noggin and activate crit. Went to sift through the wreckage cause the inconsiderate headless corpse crashed it into the side of my base and left his near death power armor buddy stranded there. Well, one shot to the core and pilot's head later, I got a new frame with matching T-60 parts. Went back inside and found the vertibird and core explosion killed two of my generators and knocked all my painstakingly placed [sp]Treasures of Jamaican Plain[/sp] onto the floor. It's fucking war, bucket heads.

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49361374]They were also in dire financial needs during NV which is why they had to rely on the metacritic bonus clause from Bethesda. Many of those were dismissed when they couldn't get it (some during the game production, even). The limited time frame also meant that every single employee had way more on their hands than just what they were initially supposed to do[/QUOTE] The most heartbreaking part of the bonus scandal is that they had to lay off someone that started the previous day. I mean, dang, imagine how it must have felt to be that person.

To be fair with Bethesda they are also being the ones bringing Fallout games to the new gens every time so they [I]have[/I] to focus on the visuals or the average gamer will not pay any attention to them. People complain about how Fallout 3 and 4 looked dated to their generation already - imagine if they had cared less about it. Still doesn't excuse them for approaching writing and characterization so poorly though, specially because Bethesda ain't that small and modest anymore. They have the money to invest better, they just have other priorities and most of the time they're not that great. The DLCs are a good example of this mentality, because they don't have the pressure of creating the engine and mechanics anymore, it's all laid out already - the focus should be the writing, the character and the quests, and some new cool setpieces too if possible. Unfortunately they have more misses (Anchorage, Zeta, Broken Steel, Dawnguard, Dragonborn) than hits (Lookout, Pitt, Shivering Isles)

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49361318]Obsidian talked a while back about possible locals for a future Fallout game of them, with them having huge interest in the Boneyard and how things would have progressed there. This would be something Bethesda could help visually with because Obsidian isn't that large compared to Bethesda for stuff like this. Obsidian is just a small developer who knows how to make damn good RPGs (hence the reason there wasn't much room for visual upgrades and so much cut content because of their timeframe and size) and Bethesda is a pretty big developer who make pretty damn visually stunning open (Fallout) worlds, but lack the depth of Obsidian's Fallout games.[/QUOTE] Bethesda is definitely bigger than Obsidian but they are actually pretty small for a AAA dev. They don't actually have a lot of manpower to provide in terms of artists/level designers. For example, they had only 2 artists do all the tilesets for all the dungions in skyrim. Part of this is efficency (this job stays relevant for most of the entire dev cycle). The other part is because it is a job that requires a high degree of level design skill, technical skill, and artistry to do effectively - they have to maintain constant efficent communication with not only each other but the LD team, art team, and creative direction team as a whole. Throwing more people at that job could easily introduce conflicts in direction, in holes that show up in the tileset, etc. So it's a job that is hard to find talent for, because you have to be a certain breed of artist to handle it. Say what you want about how silly that is, but fact is Bethesda makes these big 100+ hour games with a team of pretty much just 100 people, like a well oiled machine. It's part of the reason why they still have this same engine. The only way they could possibly switch engines is if they doubled the team size and/or had a morrowind-level of dev time (9 years-ish). I think considering how fucking rich they are and how stale things are getting with this same engine it's something they need to do eventually. But how they work now, they literally don't have manpower to help obsidian along because their entire dev cycle is hyper optimized to maximize the efficiency of the few to make their games. Taking one kit artist over to Obsidian to help on Fallout 4: New Vegas 2 would literally cut their kit artist man power in half. Taking 3 standard artists over would be 20% of their artist manpower. It is annoying but I can't blame them. They have a tight knit team, which is key to making stuff like this work (lol Assassin's Creed Unity with their massive 600+ man teams, yet coming out as a mess). It is also extremely effective. Kind of like Valve, they are a small-ish team making HUGE money. Why mess with what is clearly working?

[QUOTE=KorJax;49361450]words[/QUOTE] I don't think the point is "bethesda sparing some guys to help obsidian out" specially because the bigger studio don't usually go out of their way to help the smaller The point is "do what you usually do and hire someone better under you to take care of writing because you have the goddam money". And they have the goddamn money.

People are saying that.. new vegas 4 ending didn't had variations.. ? WHAAAAAAT ? Did you forget you could have the Boomer on your side during the battle ? The fucking Great khans ? The Enclave remnant with you ? And even,if you listened to the NCR radio you could see that thing were happening in new vegas (The fucking gomorrah attack on the strip for example) so i wanna say NO,new vegas has many variations for everything and that what makes it the king. And for the ones that said New vegas was on a heroic fantasy tropes.. wtf are you high or what ? Where do you see the heroic fantasy tropes ? The psykers ? They were in fallout 1 and 2 uhoh. And how is bethesda actually looking for a mad max feelings ? You think it's a mad max feelings to have 100 stimpack ? Because in new vegas,i actually rarely find any stimpack if not in dead money. Do you feel like the wasteland,is a wasteland ? But you know,i'm that big fan of obsidian who always say they're the best,but i keep some sense : Fallout 4 is better than fallout 3 in every.possible.ways. It mades more sense than "Go destroy the enclave so water purifier!!" "go save your dad" that mades no sense at all. Fallout 4 only rivals is new vegas,and only in writing it is. Else new vegas would have been blown off by fallout 4.

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49361390]To be fair with Bethesda they are also being the ones bringing Fallout games to the new gens every time so they [I]have[/I] to focus on the visuals or the average gamer will not pay any attention to them. People complain about how Fallout 3 and 4 looked dated to their generation already - imagine if they had cared less about it. Still doesn't excuse them for approaching writing and characterization so poorly though, specially because Bethesda ain't that small and modest anymore. They have the money to invest better, they just have other priorities and most of the time they're not that great. The DLCs are a good example of this mentality, because they don't have the pressure of creating the engine and mechanics anymore, it's all laid out already - the focus should be the writing, the character and the quests, and some new cool setpieces too if possible. Unfortunately they have more misses (Anchorage, Zeta, Broken Steel, Dawnguard, Dragonborn) than hits (Lookout, Pitt, Shivering Isles)[/QUOTE] Tbh I think Fallout 4 looks fucking great The big issues with it visually pretty much amount to an outdated engine that can't handle much more. Long load times, texture quality that is good but spotty in a lot of places, bad performance, an animation system that feels very early 360-era, etc. Considering it's still gamebyro I kind of don't mind for once. It looks damn good a lot of the time. I'd be perfectly fine with how Fallout 4 is visually if it didn't have the load times it does and the bad performance in certain areas (despite better looking games running perfectly smooth). It is clear the engine is being strained.

[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;49361462]People are saying that.. new vegas 4 ending didn't had variations.. ?[/QUOTE] Nobody said that

[QUOTE=KorJax;49361450]Bethesda is definitely bigger than Obsidian but they are actually pretty small for a AAA dev. They don't actually have a lot of manpower to provide in terms of artists/level designers. For example, they had only 2 artists do all the tilesets for all the dungions in skyrim. Part of this is efficency (this job stays relevant for most of the entire dev cycle). The other part is because it is a job that requires a high degree of level design skill, technical skill, and artistry to do effectively - they have to maintain constant efficent communication with not only each other but the LD team, art team, and creative direction team as a whole. Throwing more people at that job could easily introduce conflicts in direction, in holes that show up in the tileset, etc. So it's a job that is hard to find talent for, because you have to be a certain breed of artist to handle it. Say what you want about how silly that is, but fact is Bethesda makes these big 100+ hour games with a team of pretty much just 100 people, like a well oiled machine. It's part of the reason why they still have this same engine. The only way they could possibly switch engines is if they doubled the team size and/or had a morrowind-level of dev time (9 years-ish). I think considering how fucking rich they are and how stale things are getting with this same engine it's something they need to do eventually. But how they work now, they literally don't have manpower to help obsidian along because their entire dev cycle is hyper optimized to maximize the efficiency of the few to make their games. Taking one kit artist over to Obsidian to help on Fallout 4: New Vegas 2 would literally cut their kit artist man power in half. Taking 3 standard artists over would be 20% of their artist manpower. It is annoying but I can't blame them. They have a tight knit team, which is key to making stuff like this work (lol Assassin's Creed Unity with their massive 600+ man teams, yet coming out as a mess). It is also extremely effective. Kind of like Valve, they are a small-ish team making HUGE money. Why mess with what is clearly working?[/QUOTE] I swear if assassin creed unity had 600 man working on it,don't come to ubisoft tomorrow because i will explode there. Six-motherfucking-hundred man and woman working on this game. [editline]21st December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=KorJax;49361466]Tbh I think Fallout 4 looks fucking great The big issues with it visually pretty much amount to an outdated engine that can't handle much more. Long load times, texture quality that is good but spotty in a lot of places, bad performance, an animation system that feels very early 360-era, etc. Considering it's still gamebyro I kind of don't mind for once. It looks damn good a lot of the time. I'd be perfectly fine with how Fallout 4 is visually if it didn't have the load times it does and the bad performance in certain areas (despite better looking games running perfectly smooth). It is clear the engine is being strained.[/QUOTE] The animation is pretty good actually. I love the fact that now you can't just turn around in 1 seconds. It feels pretty much cinematic and better. [editline]21st December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;49361468]Nobody said that[/QUOTE] Some pages ago,sorry,i had to read everything since page 14.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49361353]Obsidian isn't that small. They were about 50 people back in 2008.[/QUOTE] 50 is absolutely tiny for a AAA dev. Even 100 for Bethesda is small. Witcher 3 was developed by 230, Resident Evil 6 was developed by 600, the AC games are about 1000 and GTA V was well over that.

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49361458]I don't think the point is "bethesda sparing some guys to help obsidian out" specially because the bigger studio don't usually go out of their way to help the smaller The point is "do what you usually do and hire someone better under you to take care of writing because you have the goddam money". And they have the goddamn money.[/QUOTE] I agree, don't get me wrong. I just don't think it is surprising. It's kind of the same thing going on with Valve right now. They kind of are just maintaining the same projects they've had for years for the most part, because it clearly is working for them as a business. Hearthstone is much more conservative with updates compared to other Blizzard projects, and a lot more price gouge at times. A lot of that I think is because they make so much money doing what they are doing, they don't need to change. It's amazing how guaranteed success can let you easily become complacent. I mean, there are upsides - I genuinely like how each Bethesda game has a ton of new things added or experimented on compared to past games. None of their games suffer from a "madden" effect which is cool. But there is nothing like having a fire under your ass to encourage you to improve. Kind of a life lesson in general. If you really want to learn work ethic and really want to accomplish your dreams, really want to improve yourself...put everything on the line by moving to where you want to be. You simply can't afford anymore to not put 110% into your goals, otherwise you'll end up homeless.

[QUOTE=KorJax;49361489]I agree, don't get me wrong. I just don't think it is surprising. It's kind of the same thing going on with Valve right now. They kind of are just maintaining the same projects they've had for years for the most part, because it clearly is working for them as a business. Hearthstone is much more conservative with updates compared to other Blizzard projects, and a lot more price gouge at times. A lot of that I think is because they make so much money doing what they are doing, they don't need to change. It's amazing how guaranteed success can let you easily become complacent. I mean, there are upsides - I genuinely like how each Bethesda game has a ton of new things added or experimented on compared to past games. None of their games suffer from a "madden" effect which is cool. But there is nothing like having a fire under your ass to encourage you to improve. Kind of a life lesson in general. If you really want to learn work ethic and really want to accomplish your dreams, really want to improve yourself...put everything on the line by moving to where you want to be. You simply can't afford anymore to not put 110% into your goals, otherwise you'll end up homeless.[/QUOTE] Valve don't makes game anymore,do they ?

[QUOTE=KorJax;49361466]Tbh I think Fallout 4 looks fucking great The big issues with it visually pretty much amount to an outdated engine that can't handle much more. Long load times, texture quality that is good but spotty in a lot of places, bad performance, an animation system that feels very early 360-era, etc. Considering it's still gamebyro I kind of don't mind for once. It looks damn good a lot of the time. I'd be perfectly fine with how Fallout 4 is visually if it didn't have the load times it does and the bad performance in certain areas (despite better looking games running perfectly smooth). It is clear the engine is being strained.[/QUOTE] I don't think it looks bad either, hell even NV doesn't bother me that much, i'm not as much of a graphics person it seems. Fallout 4 looked amazing in comparison. I'm talking about the average graphicwhore gamer out there that looked at screenshots and videos and said WOW THIS LOOKS LIKE CRAP MORE LIKE FALLOUT 4 PS2 which unfortunately are the vast majority of the ones buying consoles and games so Bethesda (and anyone else in the market really) still have to pander to them

See now people discussing shit like this is good when you come into this thread, this and update notes, progress on mods, cool mods to check out, videos and webms of fun shit, that kinda stuff, makes this thread good.

I'd like to say that we were all saying that fallout 3 was the beginning of the casualization of the serie,and now people are saying that fallout 4 is the beginning. I remember that times where we were all saying that fallout 3 sucked hard,was lame and is a fallout only by the name. Now people seems to say that fallout 4 is not better than fallout 3. EXPLAIN ME :what:

Wandering around near Sanctuary and see two deathclaws running around attacking each other. The fuck is going on.

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49361524]I really can't wait until people will try and port over New Vegas to Fallout 4's engine. The Mojave will look even more incredible with Fallout 4's graphics and artstyle.[/QUOTE] And the DLC ! I'd love to see Dead money and Lonesome road in it,but in reality,the best will be "Honest heart" Because,well,it's pretty much "alive" with colors and there no traces of any radiation and that is pretty much likes fallout 4

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49361524]I really can't wait until people will try and port over New Vegas to Fallout 4's engine. The Mojave will look even more incredible with Fallout 4's graphics and artstyle.[/QUOTE] That's not really how it works. Trying to make New Vegas look like 4 would require remaking assets completely.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;49361545]That's not really how it works. Trying to make New Vegas look like 4 would require remaking assets completely.[/QUOTE] Pretty much If even porting F2 to NV took an unbelievable amount of effort (they never went past arroyo) and they shared similar settings and assets that could be reused, imagine trying to port the mojave to the commonwealth I don't doubt someone will try to (modders do crazy stuff sometimes) but i'm not holding my breath for it.

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49361558]Pretty much If even porting F2 to NV took an unbelievable amount of effort (they never went past arroyo) and they shared similar settings and assets that could be reused, imagine trying to port the mojave to the commonwealth I don't doubt someone will try to (modders do crazy stuff sometimes) but i'm not holding my breath for it.[/QUOTE] They could start by the maps,with nothing but the building I looked over on fallout lonestar and frontier,but none of them have horse or ghoul horse on them,daamn,c'mon horse could have survived the harsh wasteland like the dog did ;( isn't it possible to port horses from skyrim or oblivion with little retexture :(

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49361581]Except with Fallout 2, alot of stuff had to be redesigned into Fallout: New Vegas's engine because they were transitioning from isometric 2D to an 3D engine, not to mention they had a lot less content they could just directly port over or replace with existing assets from New Vegas. New Vegas on the other hand shares a whole lot of assets of Fallout 3, and most of those are remade in some way in Fallout 4 (like I said earlier, Brahmin's, Nuka Cola, Protectrons, Radroaches, etc), so lots of older assets could already be replaced by F4's assets when porting over, not to mention New Vegas has alot of stuff that doesn't need to be remade from scratch, like recorded dialog and such. For the old assets, in earlier versions you can just use those as placeholders and remake them as you go along with the project.[/QUOTE] The entire game world of New Vegas will have to be remade. All the weapons that don't already exist in 4 are more than likely going to have to be re-rigged and re-animated at the very least. Creatures like geckos, mantises, even protectrons and robobrains are going to need to be redone. Things that plain don't exist in 4, like the rep system and skill checks, are going to have to be put in somehow. All the dialogue trees and quest scripting is likely going to have to be painstakingly replicated. People will attempt it, of course. However, a full recreation of base game New Vegas, let alone its DLCs, just isn't going to happen.

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49361194]People seem to forget that Bethesda set the trend of that everything suddenly needs to feel destroyed and ruined by nuclear devestation, and while that's true for cases like Fallout 1 and Fallout 3, New Vegas takes place in a part of the world where huge factions like the NCR are trying to rebuild the world. There are actually people making new resources, like that clothing for instance. Factions like the Gun Runners have repurposed factories where they make new firearms for factions like the NCR. [b] It makes even less sense for a game like Fallout 4 to have people still wear shitty repurposed stuff [/b]where it has been already 200 years for fuck sakes. Most of the people in the Commonwealth, despite the Institute, look like they sat on their ass for the last couple of 200 years. Fallout 4 would make more sense if it took place somewhere between Fallout 1 and Fallout 2.[/QUOTE] Why the fuck not? There's no [QUOTE]huge factions like the NCR are trying to rebuild the world. There are actually people making new resources, like that clothing for instance. Factions like the Gun Runners have repurposed factories where they make new firearms for faction[/QUOTE] in the Commonwealth so there's no one trying to rebuild the world.

[QUOTE=Soriddo;49361665]Why the fuck not? There's no in the Commonwealth so there's no one trying to rebuild the world.[/QUOTE] There's towns and shit. Hell, Diamond City even has a goddamn [i]plastic surgeon[/i]. A fucking [b][i]plastic surgeon[/i][/b], and you're telling me they can't make their own clothes?

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49361676]And why not? It has been 200 years. Why does nobody stand up, or from an area next to it, form a faction, and actually make change to the situation? That kind of stuff is in human nature, just as much as war.[/QUOTE] Wasn't there a thing of dialogue that said the leaders did try to make a unified faction but the institute cut them down? But idk, I just thought I heard someone say that.

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49361676]And why not? It has been 200 years. Why does nobody stand up, or from an area next to it, form a faction, and actually make change to the situation? That kind of stuff is in human nature, just as much as war.[/QUOTE] [sp]Because if you have been paying any attention, the Institute nipped em in the bud before it could even learn to crawl.[/sp]

[QUOTE=elowin;49361682]There's towns and shit. Hell, Diamond City even has a goddamn [i]plastic surgeon[/i]. A fucking [b][i]plastic surgeon[/i][/b], and you're telling me they can't make their own clothes?[/QUOTE] There's the clothes store in Diamond City.

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49361630]No, obviously it isn't just going to happen, and we're talking about atleast a 3 year project here, but the modding community of Bethesda games is so passionate that it will happen eventually, no doubt. Hell, people are already remaking stuff like the NCR Elite Ranger Armor or items from New Vegas for in Fallout 4[/QUOTE] Yeah, they're remaking some of the most iconic parts of New Vegas. That's reasonable. They're also going to have to remake all the NCR and legion armours, all those low-level 9mms and cowboy repeaters and .357 revolvers. They're gonna have to remake all the unique snowy trees around Jacobstown, and they're going to have to remake all the unique assets from the Strip casinoes, if they want it to actually fit the improved lighting and visual assets from F4, because as many positives as I will enthusiastically agree New Vegas has, it is [I]incredibly[/I] ugly. It being a 3 year project is also optimistic. A team of perhaps 15, at most, enthusiastic modders working on it in their spare time can't compare to even a team of 50 professionals working full-time. I think we'll see a project that starts as soon as the GECK is released and then is veeeery slowly worked on for years, but will probably never get done. We will see an entirely new Fallout game before we see a complete remake of New Vegas in 4, and I will personally fly over to Maryland and dope-slap Todd Howard if I turn out to be wrong.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;49361629]The entire game world of New Vegas will have to be remade. All the weapons that don't already exist in 4 are more than likely going to have to be re-rigged and re-animated at the very least. Creatures like geckos, mantises, even protectrons and robobrains are going to need to be redone. Things that plain don't exist in 4, like the rep system and skill checks, are going to have to be put in somehow. All the dialogue trees and quest scripting is likely going to have to be painstakingly replicated. People will attempt it, of course. However, a full recreation of base game New Vegas, let alone its DLCs, just isn't going to happen.[/QUOTE]What is skywind.