Fallout 4 V24: You're Tied to This Thread Kid, Your Energy - Games

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49368333]It happens exactly [I]once[/I] and you're complaining about the entire game, DLCs and Obsidian about it. Funny. You seem way more patient with other developers.[/QUOTE] I specifically said, several times, that I only talked about the DLC. It also happens a few other times such as Dog/God's intro, Ulysses' constant rambling and the unending tirade when you get to him, and such.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49368343]I specifically said, several times, that I only talked about the DLC. It also happens a few other times such as Dog/God's intro, Ulysses' constant rambling and the unending tirade when you get to him, and such.[/QUOTE] No it don't. Just because [I]you[/I] don't feel like reading it doesn't mean the pacing is bad. You can explore all their dialogue at the pace you want, and finish it any time you want either.

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49368342]I sometimes feel some people here are professional New Vegas haters just to defend the flaws of Fallout 4.[/QUOTE] Or maybe NV has just as many flaws as FO4 but in different places. You have to admit, NV's dialogue gets really, really wordy and dragged on.

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49368342]I sometimes feel some people here are professional New Vegas haters just to defend the flaws of Fallout 4.[/QUOTE] things you do not understand are not necessarily flaws nobody in this thread is dense enough to deny that fallout 4 has lots of problems you just like to complain about things that aren't problems at all

[QUOTE=Reagy;49368356]You have to admit, NV's dialogue gets really, really wordy and dragged on.[/QUOTE] Looks like i'm really getting old. Having more dialogue with more options used to be a good thing.

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49368351]No it don't. Just because [I]you[/I] don't feel like reading it doesn't mean the pacing is bad. You can explore all their dialogue at the pace you want, and finish it any time you want either.[/QUOTE] I'm not the only one who complains or has complained about the lengthy dialogue of New Vegas. Some people don't have the same attention span as others and having to go through incredibly long conversations, during which you can't save, is often annoying because it often ends up in a situation where I have to either start skipping through dialogue because there's been so much in so little time I can't register it all anymore (meaning I miss out on cool dialogue) or leave the game hanging on the dialogue menu for a while and come back to it when I'm ready to take more in. It's a problem with pacing.

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49368364]Looks like i'm really getting old. Having more dialogue with more options used to be a good thing.[/QUOTE] Having more dialogue with more options over a longer period of time and not all packed in one 40 minute long intro is a better thing even. It's this magical word that defines exactly this situation, called [I]pacing.[/I]

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49368364]Looks like i'm really getting old. Having more dialogue with more options used to be a good thing.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying its bad, but in some places it got really excessive, like pointed out before, you could have a near fucking hour long discussion with ulysses which just repeated bullshit over and over. I don't have anything against dialogue options being vast, its just when they drag on is when it gets overboard.

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49368369]Why would I complain for fun about a game I've been looking forward too that's part of one of my favourite videogame series? If I complain about something, then that's because something legitimately pissed me off.[/QUOTE] I'm sure the obsessive rating spam is also part of your legitimate complaints

You are literally the first person i'm seeing complaining about not being able to save in the middle of long conversations holy shit is this even a complaint I ask you again to pick a single moment where the game forces you to sit through a long conversation without you being able to solve whatever you want in a faster way, be it by speech checks or just not asking more questions/ending the conversation. Go on. Dog/God and Ulysses already ruled out, you can end their "lengthy" conversations at the silo and the sierra madre kitchen pretty quickly, you only get "long boring words" if you ask for them Also you are literally complaining about too much dialogue. Not even too much bad dialogue, just too much dialogue. That you are never, ever forced to read. But you don't feel like reading it so it's bad and everyone who likes reading it is wrong. I can't believe you don't read your own posts and can't figure out something is wrong with them. [QUOTE=Ganerumo;49368370]Having more dialogue with more options over a longer period of time and not all packed in one 40 minute long intro is a better thing even. It's this magical word that defines exactly this situation, called [I]pacing.[/I][/QUOTE] Again using the same single example i already said it was poorly done to bash the entire game and company behind it (there's a long diference between 10 min and 40 min you know) Even you can do better than that.

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49368383]Nah those are just to throw more oil on the fire. Apperantly there are people here actually [I]caring about ratings[/I] which is something I've always found quiet hilarious.[/QUOTE] You can't actually pull the "who cares about ratings" card when you've spent this entire thread and the last spamming them. Especially not when you try to pull the "I was trolling" card [I]in the same post.[/I] [editline]22nd December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49368385]You are literally the first person i'm seeing complaining about not being able to save in the middle of long conversations holy shit is this even a complaint I ask you again to pick a single moment where the game forces you to sit through a long conversation without you being able to solve whatever you want in a faster way, be it by speech checks or just not asking more questions/ending the conversation. Go on. Dog/God and Ulysses already ruled out, you can end their "lengthy" conversations at the silo and the sierra madre kitchen pretty quickly, you only get "long boring words" if you ask for them Also you are literally complaining about too much dialogue. Not even too much bad dialogue, just too much dialogue. That you are never, ever forced to read. But you don't feel like reading it so it's bad and everyone who likes reading it is wrong. I can't believe you don't read your own posts and can't figure out something is wrong with them.[/QUOTE] Consider actually answering the complaints about the pacing being bad instead of making shit up about how I dislike the dialogue or having "too much" dialogue. I've said time and time again that the amount of dialogue is fine. The issue is with when it's placed, and in what amount it is available at any given time. Pacing is the art of spreading your dialogue over a large time frame. Spread it too thin and you get stuff like Fallout 4 where it feels like you're not getting enough at any given time. Don't spread it enough and you get stuff like the New Vegas DLC where you get too much in a short amount of time.

I would say he has a point. Dialogue is something that shouldn't just be barfed on the player because the more of it you have, the more you inadvertently weaken it. Ulysses is a prime example of what happens if you go too ham on the dialogue. Dialogue isn't the only way to have meaningful characterisation, either. One of the most touching scenes in Witcher 3 had no dialogue at all.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;49368362]things you do not understand are not necessarily flaws nobody in this thread is dense enough to deny that fallout 4 has lots of problems you just like to complain about things that aren't problems at all[/QUOTE] I'm going to turn that around and present the idea that maybe, just maybe, his problems are entirely legitimate even though you in particular don't care about them. Maybe other people have different tastes in video games? Maybe he thinks these things are important, even though you do not? Maybe it really harms his experience? Maybe these things he feels are missing from Fallout 4, were a large part of the reason he liked the franchise to begin with? Just fucking maybe he isn't using all this energy to complain about something that he doesn't think is a problem?

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49368389]You can't actually pull the "who cares about ratings" card when you've spent this entire thread and the last spamming them. [editline]22nd December 2015[/editline] Consider actually answering the complaints about the pacing being bad instead of making shit up about how I dislike the dialogue or having a lot of dialogue[/QUOTE] Your complaint about bad pacing is baseless. You use examples that have nothing wrong with them God/Dog would have bad pacing if you had to sit through his problem in an entire go but you have four different opportunities (the police station, the plaza, the gala triggering event and the kitchen) to sort things out for him and the amount of dialogue contained there is more than acceptable, unless you ask for more information. Ulysses rambles on and on but only if you keep feeding him your thoughts and asking his opinion. If you go with a mindset of solving things quickly instead of arguing in a battle of words with him guess what? Things get solved quickly! It's almost like the game can't be blamed for giving you more dialogue when you ask for more dialogue The pacing isn't bad because you don't feel like reading everything in one go. You're never forced to sit through a long session of dialogue without having the chance to ask again if you want to. It's all added flavor that won't lock you out anything in the game. You are being petty and complaining about the game not being tailor made to your tolerance of reading when nothing outside the OWB intro is forced or dragged or rushed, it's all up your own pace of asking questions and dealing with them. None of your points so far make any sense. I'm not making any shit up, i'm just showing you the shit you keep saying.

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49368413]I don't need to pull any cards here, we all know [I]The House Always Wins[/I].[/QUOTE] I can't agree. I beat his scrawny ass to death with my fists.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;49368407]I would say he has a point. Dialogue is something that shouldn't just be barfed on the player because the more of it you have, the more you inadvertently weaken it. Ulysses is a prime example of what happens if you go too ham on the dialogue. Dialogue isn't the only way to have meaningful characterisation, either. One of the most touching scenes in Witcher 3 had no dialogue at all.[/QUOTE] A basic way to fix Ulysses' dialogue would have been to spread some of his lines during gameplay. It's already established he can talk to you through ED-E pretty much whenever he wants, so it would have been nice to have him say some things every so often during gameplay (in segments with little to no enemies) along with the proper conversation segments you get. The same thing could have been applied to his final tirade in the boss room. A lot of it could have been spread out during your walk to the room, which would have not only given the player more time to think about what Ulysses said, but also more time to reflect on his plans and decide what to do with it.

It could have been remedied somewhat for him to talk to (at) you as you're exploring, rather than stopping you in your tracks to tell you how he feels about stuff.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49368424]A basic way to fix Ulysses' dialogue would have been to spread some of his lines during gameplay. It's already established he can talk to you through ED-E pretty much whenever he wants, so it would have been nice to have him say some things every so often during gameplay (in segments with little to no enemies) along with the proper conversation segments you get. The same thing could have been applied to his final tirade in the boss room. A lot of it could have been spread out during your walk to the room, which would have not only given the player more time to think about what Ulysses said, but also more time to reflect on his plans and decide what to do with it.[/QUOTE] You do have a point, it could have been more spread out, and maybe that would have been better. Honestly, I can't say. I can see arguments both for how it would improve the game and how it would harm it, personally. What I can say though is that, all things considered, it's a pretty minor problem, isn't it? If you want to listen to all of his dialogue, well, it's there. If you don't, there is nothing whatsoever forcing you to, other than your own curiosity. And if you're curious about what he has to say, and you want to hear it, then I'd say the dialogue can't be too badly paced.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;49368434]It could have been remedied somewhat for him to talk to (at) you as you're exploring, rather than stopping you in your tracks to tell you how he feels about stuff.[/QUOTE] That's a problem with the engine. You can't have dialogue without stopping the player in the default conversation stuff of time freezing and everyone else looking goofy. He would be able to talk through soundclips yes but gamebryo had no way to give you any chances of a dynamic conversation

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49368449]That's a problem with the engine. You can't have dialogue without stopping the player in the default conversation stuff of time freezing and everyone else looking goofy. He would be able to talk through soundclips yes but gamebryo had no way to give you any chances of a dynamic conversation[/QUOTE] And it still doesn't really with Fallout 4. You can technically walk around during conversations but it works somewhere around not at all.

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49368449]That's a problem with the engine. You can't have dialogue without stopping the player in the default conversation stuff of time freezing and everyone else looking goofy. He would be able to talk through soundclips yes but gamebryo had no way to give you any chances of a dynamic conversation[/QUOTE] What? All conversions are soundclips, are they not? I suppose you mean the courier's response to what he's saying. True, but consider some things like what he says about the tunnelers. He could have started explaining them when you see the first one without any impetus from the player as you're bound to be curious about them.

[QUOTE=elowin;49368439]You do have a point, it could have been more spread out, and maybe that would have been better. Honestly, I can't say. I can see arguments both for how it would improve the game and how it would harm it, personally. What I can say though is that, all things considered, it's a pretty minor problem, isn't it? If you want to listen to all of his dialogue, well, it's there. If you don't, there is nothing whatsoever forcing you to, other than your own curiosity. And if you're curious about what he has to say, and you want to hear it, then I'd say the dialogue can't be too badly paced.[/QUOTE] It was only a minor remark made at some point because someone else mentioned how much dialogue OWB had. It didn't stop me from enjoying the DLCs for what they were, and ultimately I disliked Dead Money and Lonesome Road for completely unrelated reasons.

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49368257]I would say "Bethesda games are more up your alley if dialogue annoys you" but then i remembered you wouldn't be able to kill the think tank and Mobius in a bethesda game anyway[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what you're implying? I actually miss that. I do think FO4 is lacking in the dialogue department. However, I believe the 4-way, cinematic dialogue system itself is fine, it's just that it barely has any depth to it, in the form of clearly different-natured "RP" responses, which open up to new (up to) 4 responses, and so on.. Plus if we had a customizable/different protag voices, it'd be nice. (How hard can it be for Bethesda to put 1-3 employees into editing the audio of the main voice into a few variations of it? So that you don't have to record all the voice lines by multiple different voice actors.)

[QUOTE=Samiam22;49368459]What? All conversions are soundclips, are they not? I suppose you mean the courier's response to what he's saying. True, but consider some things like what he says about the tunnelers. He could have started explaining them when you see the first one without any impetus from the player as you're bound to be curious about them.[/QUOTE] Yeah but what he's saying is, if you are to have any opportunity to respond to him, the game HAS to lock you into a conversation with him. You can't just have the conversation going while you're exploring, it simply doesn't work.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;49368459]What? All conversions are soundclips, are they not? I suppose you mean the courier's response to what he's saying. True, but consider some things like what he says about the tunnelers. He could have started explaining them when you see the first one without any impetus from the player as you're bound to be curious about them.[/QUOTE] I don't think Ulysses cares enough to explain you all about tunnellers right when you see them. He's not that worried about putting you up to date with life saving tips. Ulysses himself seems to be a constant way of pointing how Obsidian sucks and how they are pretentious and yadda-yadda when people don't seem to understand his point (besides being Avellone's final power trip) at all. Despite finding Lonesome Road the weakest DLC i guess it shows how powerful the obsidian writing is when people still complain about Ulysses and give him way too importance to his words when the point is that he shouldn't be given that much attention at all because he's freaking nuts

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;49368474]I'm not sure what you're implying? I actually miss that. I do think FO4 is lacking in the dialogue department. However, I believe the 4-way, cinematic dialogue system itself is fine, it's just that it barely has any depth to it, in the form of clearly different-natured "RP" responses, which open up to new (up to) 4 responses, and so on.. Plus if we had a customizable/different protag voices, it'd be nice. (How hard can it be for Bethesda to put 1-3 employees into editing the audio of the main voice into a few variations of it? So that you don't have to record all the voice lines by multiple different voice actors.)[/QUOTE] Obviously the system could be done much, [i]much[/i] better than it was in Fallout 4, but there is no way to use a system like that and retain quite the same degree of freedom as something like Fallout New Vegas. You could come close, but never quite reach it. And just coming close would be expensive as fuck.

Ulysses may be freaking nuts but both the DLC and the base game hype him up as a threatening presence that's going to be an actual issue and then you find him and he's just a chump who never stops talking. It's a recurring trope to talk highly of a character and have him be a useless piece of shit in reality and it's always nice to see, but I think Ulysses wasn't supposed to be that - it feels like they simply missed the mark and at some point went overboard with the "he's insane and not trustworthy" thing.

I complain about Ulysses because he is big red glaring failure of a character in a game that otherwise has incredibly strong characters.

The entire lack of unique dialogue options based on your perks really sucks, wheres my Nuclear Physicist dialogue for talking about reactors? Where's my Lady Killer dialogue?

Something that bothers me about settlers - with Fallout Shelter we had great randomized names. Why did we not get that for our settlements?