Fallout 4 V24: You're Tied to This Thread Kid, Your Energy - Games

Not to mention that New Vegas already has a threatening and completely batshit insane character in the form of Legate Lanius, who's an absolutely amazing character for how little we see him. In comparison, Ulysses feels like an edgy teenager's idea of a nemesis.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;49368493]I complain about Ulysses because he is big red glaring failure of a character in a game that otherwise has incredibly strong characters.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;49368491]Ulysses may be freaking nuts but both the DLC and the base game hype him up as a threatening presence that's going to be an actual issue and then you find him and he's just a chump who never stops talking. It's a recurring trope to talk highly of a character and have him be a useless piece of shit in reality and it's always nice to see, but I think Ulysses wasn't supposed to be that - it feels like they simply missed the mark and at some point went overboard with the "he's insane and not trustworthy" thing.[/QUOTE] I don't disagree with you both on this point, Ulysses is hyped up as hell and the final confrontation is disappointing. He's one of the weakest characters in the game and really made Lonesone Road a disappointing DLC for me. That was [I]not[/I] the discussion so far though, the discussion was that his pacing is bad (arguable - could be handled better but engine limitations severely gimped the possibilities on this one) and the final confrontation dumps too much text in you regardless (wrong - it only happens if you keep asking him his opinions)

A lot of his conversation could have been turned into soundbites in the transition areas that Lonesome Road has, rather than forcing you to stop and listen to him. It wouldn't have felt out of character since Ulysses [I]is[/I] an insane cunt and he doesn't care what you have to say until you actually get to him, so him rambling on and on without really waiting for an answer wouldn't have felt out of character.

I will entirely agree that all of Ulysses' dialogue in Lonesome Road was far too verbose and poorly paced for its own good. Ulysses should have said something short at the beginning, like some kind of cryptic "if you survive, come find me", and then said nothing until you meet him again at the silo. The most engaging dialogues in Lonesome Road were the holotapes left by NCR troopers who were talking about how they've failed in their mission and know they're going to die.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49368523]A lot of his conversation could have been turned into soundbites in the transition areas that Lonesome Road has, rather than forcing you to stop and listen to him. It wouldn't have felt out of character since Ulysses [I]is[/I] an insane cunt and he doesn't care what you have to say until you actually get to him, so him rambling on and on without really waiting for an answer wouldn't have felt out of character.[/QUOTE] But then some people would complain about how annoying it was to hear Ulysses rambling every new area and how they wanted ED-E to shut up There was no way to cut a single line of Ulysses Avallone dialogue so they made the decision of putting it all behind the dialogue where you can ask him about the things that interest you and leave the rest to his crazy mind. Could have been done better? Sure, i'm going to be one of the last people to defend LR doing things right. The pacing was bad though? Not really. You still get to ask him and talk with him according to your own interest so you're the one dictating your pace in your talks with him. Unlike the beginning of OWB where you [I]have[/I] to go through the Think Tank intro regardless. There's a whole lot of middle points between "perfect" and "utterly broken"

[QUOTE=FlakTheMighty;49368504]Something that bothers me about settlers - with Fallout Shelter we had great randomized names. Why did we not get that for our settlements?[/QUOTE] It would be harder to tell actually important NPCs from the rest, I assume.

[QUOTE=elowin;49368552]It would be harder to tell actually important NPCs from the rest, I assume.[/QUOTE] Always could have tagged the settlers somehow.

[QUOTE=FlakTheMighty;49368504]Something that bothers me about settlers - with Fallout Shelter we had great randomized names. Why did we not get that for our settlements?[/QUOTE] Why did we not get a lot of features from Fallout Shelter, hell I thought Fallout Shelter was supposed to be basically a tutorial, how in the world they got the settlement system to be more watered down than the mobile game I'll never know. Like the fucking menu system, or the ability to easily control and dictate our settlers, or the ability to train our settlers to make them better at the jobs we provide to them, or the ability to send them out to scout the wasteland for resources, the ability to actualy have kids, or anything else, because the settlement system compared to the fucking mobile game just doesn't add up. It's fun, but it could have been so much better and the fact it's beaten out by the mobile game features wise is just sad. [t]http://www.gamezebo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/FalloutShelter_SPECIALSort.jpg[/t] I blame it on the probability that the settlement system wasn't finished, like a lot of awesome things in this game, like the Combat zone, but they did a patch job and decided to put it in anyway.

An example of [I]good[/I] pacing in vanilla NV is Vulpes Inculta. He doesn't keep talking to you when you meet him, he doesn't start a really long conversation when you first meet him in Nipton, he just has a bit to say every time you see him and progressively reveals more and more of his character and you play the game and cross his path. Caesar and House are the same deal where you can ask them quite a bunch every time you see them, but not everything. It takes House quite a few jobs for him to open up and explain his motivations a bit better. Also the same deal with how companions work, like how Arcade Gannon talks a bit every time you get to an interesting spot, rather than dump a shitload of info when you first meet him.

[QUOTE=FlakTheMighty;49368559]Always could have tagged the settlers somehow.[/QUOTE] What, like call them "[Settler] Name" or something? That's certainly not something Bethesda would do.

[QUOTE=elowin;49368490]Obviously the system could be done much, [i]much[/i] better than it was in Fallout 4, but there is no way to use a system like that and retain quite the same degree of freedom as something like Fallout New Vegas. You could come close, but never quite reach it. And just coming close would be expensive as fuck.[/QUOTE] "Expensive" not really. Depends how much the VAs cry for. You don't have to choose a star celebrity either. Using the Fallout 4's dialogue system as the base, you could come up with a really fleshed out, [i]true[/i] god damned motherfucking Role-playing experience, which is what all the fans ever wish for.. I think. Having voiced protagonists doesn't stand in the way of that. Skyrim has multiple races and voices, male & female. The 4-way dialogue system doesn't stand in the way of a good Fallout game either exactly, but I have to admit it's more of a limiting factor than the voice imo. So yeah, might as well scrap the idea of limiting responses to only 4 at a time, but then all you need to do is change the layout into a list, and make them clickable as well which is a nice option. Also, having Codsworth, and only Codsworth, speak a thousand names doesn't really help the issue here either. While it's fun, I guess, it's pretty pointless, and in some way, limits the rest of the game by eating extra time&resources?

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49368566]An example of [I]good[/I] pacing in vanilla NV is Vulpes Inculta. He doesn't keep talking to you when you meet him, he doesn't start a really long conversation when you first meet him in Nipton, he just has a bit to say every time you see him and progressively reveals more and more of his character and you play the game and cross his path. Caesar and House are the same deal where you can ask them quite a bunch every time you see them, but not everything. It takes House quite a few jobs for him to open up and explain his motivations a bit better. Also the same deal with how companions work, like how Arcade Gannon talks a bit every time you get to an interesting spot, rather than dump a shitload of info when you first meet him.[/QUOTE] Actually as soon as you recruit any given follower they have a whole shitload of questions you can choose to ask them, if you want. It's just your choice when and if you ever will.

[QUOTE=elowin;49368574]What, like call them "[Settler] Name" or something? That's certainly not something Bethesda would do.[/QUOTE] They could have changed how the UI displays names as well, they could have had like "Minuteman" on top and "Preston Garvy" underneath it, or yeah just "Settler Francis"

[QUOTE=elowin;49368580]Actually as soon as you recruit any given follower they have a whole shitload of questions you can choose to ask them, if you want. It's just your choice when and if you ever will.[/QUOTE] Not really with Arcade, he'll mostly deflect your questions after you've first met, due to being in the Enclave and all. It's only after you gain his trust that he opens up more.

[QUOTE=elowin;49368580]Actually as soon as you recruit any given follower they have a whole shitload of questions you can choose to ask them, if you want. It's just your choice when and if you ever will.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure at least some of the companions will refuse to reveal some things until you've progressed far enough with them. Hell, I even forgot about the best companion - Raul Tejada. He has a ton to say, but it doesn't drag on for too long and it never stops being interesting. His story wouldn't have had nearly the same impact if he just openly spilled it all out within a minute of joining you.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;49368579]"Expensive" not really. Depends how much the VAs cry for. You don't have to choose a star celebrity either. Using the Fallout 4's dialogue system as the base, you could come up with a really fleshed out, [i]true[/i] god damned motherfucking Role-playing experience, which is what all the fans ever wish for.. I think. Having voiced protagonists doesn't stand in the way of that. Skyrim has multiple races and voices, male & female. The 4-way dialogue system doesn't stand in the way of a good Fallout game either exactly, but I have to admit it's more of a limiting factor than the voice imo. So yeah, might as well scrap the idea of limiting responses to only 4 at a time, but then all you need to do is change the layout into a list, and make them clickable as well which is a nice option. Also, having Codsworth, and only Codsworth, speak a thousand names doesn't really help the issue either. While it's fun, I guess, it's pretty pointless.[/QUOTE] No, you really can't. The moment you introduce voice acting, roleplaying potential is killed. This is simply how it is. You can introduce a lot of different voice actors each with their own personality, but it will never cover the full spectrum. Ever. You can argue that simple text based dialogue doesn't either, and you would be correct, but it is much, much closer. And even having, say, 3 voice actors for either gender? That's going to take ridiculous amounts of voice acting, if the responses and the amount of responses are fleshed out in the least. Like, if you took Fallout: New Vegas, and made every single line the PC says voiced, with 6 different possible voice actors, that would multiply the amount of lines they'd have to record by a factor of about 3 or 4. Skyrim has multiple races and voices, but not nearly that amount of lines for each.

[QUOTE=elowin;49368580]Actually as soon as you recruit any given follower they have a whole shitload of questions you can choose to ask them, if you want. It's just your choice when and if you ever will.[/QUOTE] And this is good pacing! The option is there. You can ask about it or not, and if you are intrigued you can keep asking and satiating your thoughts as much as you want, or just drop it and do it at a later time. Instead of relying on some fixed measure about how the dialogue ratio should be spread out during your game, let the players decide. Which is why new vegas do with most characters. Julie Farkas can either be the punk chick from the followers that you turn in quests for freeside or you can talk with her about a lot of stuff. You don't even have to talk with NoBark for anything and he still will comment on a lot of stuff happening if you ask him. [QUOTE=Ganerumo;49368594]I'm pretty sure at least some of the companions will refuse to reveal some things until you've progressed far enough with them. Hell, I even forgot about the best companion - Raul Tejada. He has a ton to say, but it doesn't drag on for too long and it never stops being interesting. His story wouldn't have had nearly the same impact if he just openly spilled it all out within a minute of joining you.[/QUOTE] None of them have all their dialogue open to you at first. They still have a lot of dialogue avaliable though which would fall under the "bad pacing because its a lot in one go" argument. Specially Veronica. I don't know if Felicia Day asked a lot for her role or something but damn Veronica has a lot of things to say.

[QUOTE=Hat-Wearing Man;49368592]Not really with Arcade, he'll mostly deflect your questions after you've first met, due to being in the Enclave and all. It's only after you gain his trust that he opens up more.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;49368594]I'm pretty sure at least some of the companions will refuse to reveal some things until you've progressed far enough with them. Hell, I even forgot about the best companion - Raul Tejada. He has a ton to say, but it doesn't drag on for too long and it never stops being interesting. His story wouldn't have had nearly the same impact if he just openly spilled it all out within a minute of joining you.[/QUOTE] That's not really what I'm talking about, and actually now that I think about it I am slightly wrong wrong, it's not every companion that has one, Arcade for instance doesn't. What I'm talking about though is the sub-conversation which most of the companions have where you can ask them about their opinions on all the different factions and areas and shit around the Mojave.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob4o-lJd_6Q&feature=youtu.be[/media] Today I learned a new way to die.

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49368342]I sometimes feel some people here are professional New Vegas haters just to defend the flaws of Fallout 4.[/QUOTE] Which is fitting, considering you seem like pretty much the exact opposite.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49368616]No it's not, there's a lot more to roleplaying than just imagining a voice in your head every time you read your character's dialogue.[/QUOTE] Yes, there is much more to it, but it's a large part of it nonetheless. If I imagine my character sounding a certain way, having someone voice the character over who doesn't sound anything like that will hurt my experience. This is simple fact.

Interesting mod concept: Allows you to scrap power armor frames into power armor frame inventory items, and allows you to rebuild power armor frames from said power armor frame inventory items. So pretty much power armor frame storage. Collected a bunch of power armor but don't feel the need to have all of them out? But you still want to hold onto them for whatever future purpose? [url]http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/6698/?[/url]

[QUOTE=elowin;49368764]Yes, there is much more to it, but it's a part of it nonetheless. If I imagine my character sounding a certain way, having someone voice the character over who doesn't sound anything like that will hurt my experience. This is simple fact.[/QUOTE] No, it's not a fact. It's your opinion. Personally, I don't care how my character's voice sounds as long as I can be any type of character I want. (good, bad, soldier, mechanic, whatever)

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49368342]I sometimes feel some people here are professional New Vegas haters just to defend the flaws of Fallout 4.[/QUOTE] New Vegas has flaws too, you know. It's not the holy messiah of Fallout or RPG gaming, and people aren't shit for not enjoying it or pointing out it's issues. Same goes for New Vegas fans. However, it seems like people enjoy ragging on Beth's iterations while saying "I didn't like New Vegas-" is akin to burning someone's holy book. [editline]22nd December 2015[/editline] New Vegas was just like Skyrim for me. I can see all of the goodness in it, about it, and conceptually why it's a good game and why people enjoy it, but I just couldn't enjoy it myself.

I saw the Fallout Anthology and a Vault Boy vinyl figure at a mall Gamestop in this nice primarily-old-person town, and ofc I picked both up. Since I already owned every game, my cousin has just recently moved from consoles to PC, and his Internet is slow as hell and he could use more games with physical discs, I just gave him the games and kept the mininuke. We installed New Vegas and he killed House in 7 hours and started Dead Money at level 9 He's just past the door you need Vera's voice to open. This is the first time he's ever played this game holy shit

lol I did the same thing I got the Anthology edition for the nuke and gave all the games to my brother

[QUOTE=overwatch pvt;49368786]No, it's not a fact. It's your opinion. Personally, I don't care how my character's voice sounds as long as I can be any type of character I want. (good, bad, soldier, mechanic, whatever)[/QUOTE] Yeah, so you don't imagine your character sounding a certain way. If you did, then it would hurt your experience for them to sound another way. This is what I said, and it is literally, a fact.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49368616]No it's not, there's a hell of a lot more to roleplaying than just imagining a voice you made up in your head every time you read your character's dialogue.[/QUOTE] He said roleplaying [I]potential[/I], not roleplaying on the whole. When my characters aren't voiced I like creating their personalities, and even though I might be picking the same lines my they don't feel the same because there are a lot of ways to imagine it sounding. Introducing a voiced character kills that potential. There's less freedom when your character's voice and attitude/delivery is decided for you, even worse when you're locked into the role of a concerned parent.

[QUOTE=elowin;49368943]Yeah, so you don't imagine your character sounding a certain way. If you did, then it would hurt your experience for them to sound another way. This is what I said, and it is literally, a fact.[/QUOTE] No, I don't. I don't think about how my character sounds. I think about why he's saying it, and what his angle is. My character's story is the important thing for me.

... is the yelling over now? Is it safe to come out? [video=youtube;QImYPoByLwA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QImYPoByLwA[/video] Your irregularly scheduled mediocrity is here, for reasons I still don't understand. Yay, positivity.