[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;48582895]These arguments that Payday 3 will be different are confusing to me. This model for Payday 2 is working. We'll see even more characters, more DLC, more everything, for Payday 3. You guys realize this, right?[/QUOTE]
It's working, sure, but it's just morally wrong and despicable as all fucking hell. I believe that Overkill, bought out or not by Starbreeze, can still make good games with good DLC practices and with good, honest things at heart.
I'm probably too optimistic, but I dunno. There's still that chance that we'll get a legitimate sequel to PD:TH.
[QUOTE=MrHeadHopper;48582983]It's working, sure, but it's just [B]morally wrong[/B] and despicable as all fucking hell. I believe that Overkill, bought out or not by Starbreeze, can still make good games with good DLC practices and with good, honest things at heart.
I'm probably too optimistic, but I dunno. There's still that chance that we'll get a legitimate sequel to PD:TH.[/QUOTE]
I'm not buying this. You don't like DLC, that's fair. I don't think DLC is unethical, though. It's a product, and you choose to buy it. It's not like Nestle here killing babies in Africa or Apple employing child labor. It's game DLC. That's just silly.
[QUOTE=Eldariub;48582883]Do what you did to Hector. Kill off most, if not all of the contractors and put members of the gang in their places.[/QUOTE]
Keep Vlad though
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;48583046]I'm not buying this. You don't like DLC, that's fair. I don't think DLC is unethical, though. It's a product, and you choose to buy it. It's not like Nestle here killing babies in Africa or Apple employing child labor. It's game DLC. That's just silly.[/QUOTE]
you can't compare Apple employing child with DLC,that's two different thing.
the way overkill are doing their DLC is wrong and it's fucking up payday,that's all he wanted to say. there's plenty of other unethical thing in the world
[QUOTE=kiloy;48583061]Keep Vlad though[/QUOTE]
To be honest I can see Vlad killing himself (along with most of the other contractors)
The Terrorist inside me would definitely like to see the Payday 2 end with Vlad accidentally setting off those nukes he has and wiping DC off the map.
Only definite way to make sure the next game is set elsewhere.
[QUOTE=MrHeadHopper;48582652]Wish PD3 would just go back to having just 4 guys + Houston. Houston's a legit good character so I think he would work in a sequel. Plus, Bain's line with [I]Houston's got a problem[/I] is pretty funny.
I mean, think about it. You've the 4 original crewmen, 1 stand-in guy, 3 more that are legitimately good characters, 2 advertising characters, 1 fat chick and 1 screeching japanese man for 12 total goons. It's just a bit of a clusterfuck.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't mind that + clover. Dallas, Hoxton, Wolf, Chains, Houston, and Clover are the only ones I actually consider part of the "payday crew". If the other heisters just disappeared off the face of the earth I wouldn't mind too much.
[QUOTE=PaperMartin;48583078]you can't compare Apple employing child with DLC,that's two different thing.
the way overkill are doing their DLC is wrong and it's fucking up payday,that's all he wanted to say. there's plenty of other unethical thing in the world[/QUOTE]
Being morally wrong would imply some sort of ethical wrongdoing, such as abusing children or animals, or pushing products act the expense of impoverished families, or neglecting the environment, or bribing officials and reviewers, or something like that. I'm going to need major convincing that releasing a product that I don't like too many times, or releasing things that I don't want to have to pay for, is somehow morally wrong. Like, I get it, you guys keep saying is wrong. How, exactly? What is wrong about a company releasing a product? Because I don't perceive "DLC that I don't like" as breach in ethics.
[QUOTE=Ruby_Axe;48583083]To be honest I can see Vlad killing himself (along with most of the other contractors)
The Terrorist inside me would definitely like to see the Payday 2 end with Vlad accidentally setting off those nukes he has and wiping DC off the map.
Only definite way to make sure the next game is set elsewhere.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure you can't accidentaly set off a nuke
I hate complaining about dumbs but for real this time. I really want you to clearly and concisely explain to me exactly what about this is an ethical wrongdoing without just rating me dumb. I'm truly interested in hearing what you guys have to say. Do it in PMs even if you don't want to shit up the thread.
To be real basic about things, there's a difference between supporting a game and turning a game into a 25 DLC and counting cash cow while leaving everyone in a bug riddled shitter with subpar quality in almost all fields that aren't directly related to making money i.e DLC.
That is morally wrong in the games industry. If EA published a buggy, unfinished and unbalanced game that released 25 DLCs in a span of two or so years, you'd have a riot the size of Overkill's bank account.
It's honestly that fucking simple. I dunno why people like you jump to defend this shit. There's ways to make bank without fucking people over. Take something like The Witcher 3 as proof that you can make a profit without squeezing things dry. Hell, take Payday: The Heist as a more personal example. It succedeed in getting attention towards Overkill, it turned a profit and the single DLC they released was more than worth the asking price.
Quick edit: What makes Overkill so special? Why are people jumping to defend practices that would get utterly shat the moment some other random company would even [I]think[/I] about doing? This is just miserable.
So, it's immoral because it's a poor product, especially for the asking price? That's fair, but I'm not necessarily sure that's immoral. If someone releases an overpriced watch nobody automatically calls it immoral. It's just a bad product. Payday does have bugs but it's still very functional and nowhere near as bad as something like Arkham Knight was on release. Every game has bugs, let's face it.
And don't worry, I'm logically self-consistent with my DLC and shit. Even in the Deus Ex thread about the preorder I'm like "they can do whatever the fuck they want, I don't care, I'm just not gonna buy it." It's a free market, and them having a practice I personally disagree with is not automatically immoral, because they are entirely within their rights to do whatever they want to with their product. That's just called having a bad product, not having ethical breaches or committing moral crimes. You can do whatever with your money but can we not call it "morally wrong" or some such nonsense? It's just a bad product.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;48583756]So, it's immoral because it's a poor product, especially for the asking price? That's fair, but I'm not necessarily sure that's immoral. If someone releases an overpriced watch nobody automatically calls it immoral. It's just a bad product. Payday does have bugs but it's still very functional and nowhere near as bad as something like Arkham Knight was on release. Every game has bugs, let's face it.
And don't worry, I'm logically self-consistent with my DLC and shit. Even in the Deus Ex thread about the preorder I'm like "they can do whatever the fuck they want, I don't care, I'm just not gonna buy it." It's a free market, and them having a practice I personally disagree with is not automatically immoral, because they are entirely within their rights to do whatever they want to with their product. That's just called having a bad product, not having ethical breaches or committing moral crimes. You can do whatever with your money but can we not call it "morally wrong" or some such nonsense? It's just a bad product.[/QUOTE]
immorality isn't only killing people or fucking over their life
[QUOTE=PaperMartin;48583788]immorality isn't only killing people or fucking over their life[/QUOTE]
People keep saying this as if it means something.
[editline]31st August 2015[/editline]
Like, I totally get not liking the product, which is totally fair. But you don't go into Starbucks and freak out about how $5 for a shitty cup of coffee is this great moral wrongdoing, do you? I mean, you don't like the product and don't want to support the developer... I'm okay with that. But can we not, like, take a ridiculous moral highground and make it some nonsense about morals or ethics?
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;48583806]People keep saying this as if it means something.
[editline]31st August 2015[/editline]
Like, I totally get not liking the product, which is totally fair. But you don't go into Starbucks and freak out about how $5 for a shitty cup of coffee is this great moral wrongdoing, do you? I mean, you don't like the product and don't want to support the developer... I'm okay with that. But can we not, like, take a ridiculous moral highground and make it some nonsense about morals or ethics?[/QUOTE]
it's not just that people don't like
it's just that they buy the game for 20$ to discover than half of it is behind multiple paywall wich all cost from 5$ to 7$
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;48583806]People keep saying this as if it means something.[/QUOTE]
The point is that there's things that are right in the world, and things that are wrong. Things that are evil, things that are good.
Pushing an unfinished sequel to a polished, succesful product just to establish a DLC emporium built off of the momentum provided by said first title is wrong. It's evil. It's dishonest. It's on the razor's edge of being a scam with sprinkles on it, and Overkill knows it.
The Witcher series pushes a finished product out and provides continued support and bugfixing for months on end, even going as far as to add new features where applicable. They then plan on releasing two major expansions further down the line. They wouldn't dare put the game out, update it like twice and then start cutting things up for cash, because that's not what any decent person would do.
I just don't get how you can support this shit, man. You wanna pay for this? You got the 150 bucks for it? That's cool. That's ok. I like the game too, and I would like some more content for the game, but there's no way in hell I'm gonna be stupid enough to buy into their little scheme.
[QUOTE=MrHeadHopper;48583888]The point is that there's things that are right in the world, and things that are wrong. Things that are evil, things that are good.
Pushing an unfinished sequel to a polished, succesful product just to establish a DLC emporium built off of the momentum provided by said first title is wrong. It's evil. It's dishonest. It's on the razor's edge of being a scam with sprinkles on it, and Overkill knows it.
The Witcher series pushes a finished product out and provides continued support and bugfixing, even going as far as to add new features where applicable. They then plan on releasing two major expansions further down the line. They wouldn't dare put the game out, update it like twice and then start swindling, because that's not what any decent human being would do.[/QUOTE]
What about PD2 is unfinished? The only thing that anyone can bring up is safehouse customization, and from what I'm aware, 505 Games dropped the ball on that and announced it in promotional stuff when they weren't entirely certain of the safehouse past being literally a tutorial level.
[QUOTE=Dougley;48583906]What about PD2 is unfinished? The only thing that anyone can bring up is safehouse customization, and from what I'm aware, 505 Games dropped the ball on that and announced it in promotional stuff when they weren't entirely certain of the safehouse past being literally a tutorial level.[/QUOTE]
right now the game is broken and repetitive. they could improve it a lot,by fixing bugs,making the animation system better and make the interaction be more than holding f on something
"its evil"
this thread has become a parody of itself
evil video games
what will they think of next
[QUOTE=PaperMartin;48583931]right now the game is broken and repetitive. they could improve it a lot,by fixing bugs,making the animation system better and make the interaction be more than holding f on something[/QUOTE]
Stop playing!
And then leave this thread!
So we don't have to hear your complaints, which are more repetitive than anything in this fucking game. You're acting like a child, and the fact that you just decide to drop half the words in your sentences makes it even more frustrating. Please, just come up with new complaints, or solutions to these issues.
Discussing what we think is wrong with the game is good! But saying [I]"evil DLC practices, MAKE PAYDAY 3 xInfinity"[/I] doesn't get anything done. And just a heads up, Payday 3 will probably have a similar ((if not the exact same)) DLC model as Payday 2. It works, it makes them money, and it generates new players YEARS later. So just, I dunno, think "Hey! Has this complaint / comment been rehashed 40 billion times earlier by me or others in the thread? If so, maybe I should go drink some water or do something productive."
[QUOTE=MrHeadHopper;48582983]It's working, sure, but it's just morally wrong and despicable as all fucking hell. I believe that Overkill, bought out or not by Starbreeze, can still make good games with good DLC practices and with good, honest things at heart.
I'm probably too optimistic, but I dunno. There's still that chance that we'll get a legitimate sequel to PD:TH.[/QUOTE]
But whenever Almir does a press release he likes to push the fact that Overkill are "independent", meaning they have 100% control over their products. So that means they control the DLC right? Also correct me if I'm wrong but Bo Andersson is the CEO of both Overkill [url=http://starbreeze.com/2015/05/starbreeze-ceo-bo-andersson-klint-indirectly-increases-his-holding-in-starbreeze-ab/]and Starbreeze.[/url]
Did no one mention that Almir called out Goat Simulator's dev on twitter?
[url]https://twitter.com/almirlisto/status/638291642693369856[/url]
Looks like strings in the leak weren't a joke.
[QUOTE=KaptonJack;48584029]Stop playing!
And then leave this thread!
So we don't have to hear your complaints, which are more repetitive than anything in this fucking game. You're acting like a child, and the fact that you just decide to drop half the words in your sentences makes it even more frustrating. Please, just come up with new complaints, or solutions to these issues.
Discussing what we think is wrong with the game is good! But saying [I]"evil DLC practices, MAKE PAYDAY 3 xInfinity"[/I] doesn't get anything done. And just a heads up, Payday 3 will probably have a similar ((if not the exact same)) DLC model as Payday 2. It works, it makes them money, and it generates new players YEARS later. So just, I dunno, think "Hey! Has this complaint / comment been rehashed 40 billion times earlier by me or others in the thread? If so, maybe I should go drink some water or do something productive."[/QUOTE]
how do I dare make suggestions
[QUOTE=PaperMartin;48584072]how do I dare make suggestions[/QUOTE]
it never ends
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;48583960]"its evil"
this thread has become a parody of itself
evil video games
what will they think of next[/QUOTE]
You may not give two shits about the state of the industry or what will become of it in the coming years, but I do.
To be honest? Feel free to choke down their cock, sing their praises or whatever the hell it is you wanna do, but that doesn't make this any better. Do you have buyers remorse or something because you bought into all that shit and now you have to justify it or what?
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;48584047]But whenever Almir does a press release he likes to push the fact that Overkill are "independent", meaning they have 100% control over their products. So that means they control the DLC right? Also correct me if I'm wrong but Bo Andersson is the CEO of both Overkill [url=http://starbreeze.com/2015/05/starbreeze-ceo-bo-andersson-klint-indirectly-increases-his-holding-in-starbreeze-ab/]and Starbreeze.[/url][/QUOTE]
Seriously? That makes it kinda worse.
Look, I guess we're done talking about this. To me, it's just some shitty thing done by shitty people trying to get their fix of shitty money despite non-shitty money and non-shitty options to earn that non-shitty money are right around the corner. Companies can earn money without this soul sucking garbage, that's all I'm saying.
[QUOTE=DS_;48584078]it never ends[/QUOTE]
god what's so wrong to say the game is repetitive and could get better
the only thing I said about DLC in this pages (and for a while) was that it was bad,that's all
[editline]31st August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Meidi;48584056]Did no one mention that Almir called out Goat Simulator's dev on twitter?
[url]https://twitter.com/almirlisto/status/638291642693369856[/url]
Looks like strings in the leak weren't a joke.[/QUOTE]
I have no idea how to take this
it's funny but... it's just weird
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;48584047]But whenever Almir does a press release he likes to push the fact that Overkill are "independent", meaning they have 100% control over their products. So that means they control the DLC right? Also correct me if I'm wrong but Bo Andersson is the CEO of both Overkill [url=http://starbreeze.com/2015/05/starbreeze-ceo-bo-andersson-klint-indirectly-increases-his-holding-in-starbreeze-ab/]and Starbreeze.[/url][/QUOTE]
OVK isn't the only thing working under Starbreeze.
Starbreeze is working with several other developers, funding [url=http://starbreeze.com/games/raid-world-war-ii-publishing/]about[/url] [url=http://starbreeze.com/games/geminose/]six[/url] [url=http://starbreeze.com/games/storm/]other[/url] [url=http://starbreeze.com/games/overkills-the-walking-dead/]games[/url] [url=http://starbreeze.com/games/the-hunt-assault-on-mythos/]alongside[/url] [url=http://starbreeze.com/games/dead-by-daylight-publishing/]PAYDAY 2[/url], funding a [url=http://starbreeze.com/2015/06/starbreeze-reveals-the-starvr-project-aims-to-become-one-of-the-leading-experts-and-publishers-in-entertainment-vr/]state of the art VR headset[/url], and not to mention paying for salaries for all of these people, and probably paying their own office rent, parking, etc.
Then there's marketing and manufacturing deals, registering IP's, licensing deals and fees, paying for events like PAYDAYCON and reserving spots at E3...
Everything costs money, and PAYDAY 2 gets them that money. Simple as that.
[QUOTE=Meidi;48584056]Did no one mention that Almir called out Goat Simulator's dev on twitter?
[url]https://twitter.com/almirlisto/status/638291642693369856[/url]
Looks like strings in the leak weren't a joke.[/QUOTE]
I foresee a huge backlash once this thing actually gets announced/released.
[QUOTE=Dougley;48584106]OVK isn't the only thing working under Starbreeze.
Starbreeze is working with several other developers, funding [url=http://starbreeze.com/games/raid-world-war-ii-publishing/]about[/url] [url=http://starbreeze.com/games/geminose/]six[/url] [url=http://starbreeze.com/games/storm/]other[/url] [url=http://starbreeze.com/games/overkills-the-walking-dead/]games[/url] [url=http://starbreeze.com/games/the-hunt-assault-on-mythos/]alongside[/url] [url=http://starbreeze.com/games/dead-by-daylight-publishing/]PAYDAY 2[/url], funding a [url=http://starbreeze.com/2015/06/starbreeze-reveals-the-starvr-project-aims-to-become-one-of-the-leading-experts-and-publishers-in-entertainment-vr/]state of the art VR headset[/url], and not to mention paying for salaries for all of these people, and probably paying their own office rent, parking, etc.
Then there's marketing and manufacturing deals, registering IP's, licensing deals and fees, paying for events like PAYDAYCON and reserving spots at E3...
Everything costs money, and PAYDAY 2 gets them that money. Simple as that.[/QUOTE]
But why did they choose to work on 6 different games instead of getting a better support for payday 2? The game could be even more successful if it had a better support
Martin, nothing is wrong with saying "I am unhappy with the state of the game, and would like to see [x], [y], and [z] changed to improve it." In fact there are a bunch of people around here who do it quite consistently. Sandman, for instance. Notice the long, critical but not attacking, method of pointing out what you dislike? Not saying "wow fug dis game repetitive trash weh weh."
[editline]31st August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=PaperMartin;48584144]But why did they choose to work on 6 different games instead of getting a better support for payday 2? The game could be even more successful if it had a better support[/QUOTE]
Because Starbreeze doesn't work on Payday 2, Overkill does you clod.
Haha oh hot diggedy dog, let's prepare ourselves for the incoming shitstorm
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