In terms of nationality, I can sort of see the relationship for Jiro being japanese. After all he's (Ex-?)Yakuza and it makes sense, besides him having some sort of agenda why being there and having a story to tell (much different to Clover and Bonny for example) - still I'd sort of miss some sort of mission relating to his goals pretty much equal to almost any other heister aside from Hoxton. It'd be neat to have a bit more interaction or storytelling in terms of character interaction (let's for example Wolf talking about some psycho shit as a suggestion to Bain who refuses to do that) it could really add some personality to the game without necessarily changing a mission too much or making people outright denying certain characters in their play.
[QUOTE=Mochnel;48644424]Am I the only one not liking the new heisters being dedicated too much to their nationality? I mean every new heister we get always has his/her country flag on his mask, this is kinda a lame move for a heister, putting your nationality flag on your mask while robbing a bank will only make cops realize your nationality and possibly invade your home there once you retire heisting, you're a criminal you're supposed to keep your identity hidden and your homeland a secret.[/QUOTE]
No, you're not. I'm not a fan of it either. But not for lore reasons, I just find that it makes extremely uninteresting characters.
I mean look at this picture.
[t]http://img0.joyreactor.cc/pics/post/Payday-2-hoxton-dallas-wolf-867473.jpeg[/t]
If it featured Bonnie, Sokol, Jiro, and Clover instead, there would be a bottle of scotch instead of a Heineken, a hockey stick and a shillelagh in the background, and a bottle of sake with Jiro.
All of the new original characters are solely defined by one or two aspects.
Clover-Irish
Bonnie-Scottish
Sokol-I don't know enough about him to comment
Jiro-I don't know enough about him to comment
Dragan-The exception to the rule imo, a Mike Ehrmantraut type, but Croation.
Dallas-Straight forward, mastermind of the crew
Hoxton [PDTH]-Playful about heisting, his nationality took a backseat to his personality
Wolf-Anxious and on edge, seemingly normal and calm but when situations escalate so does his excitement and lack of control. An everyday joe before he started heisting but went fucking crazy and started heisting. This shows in his behavior and highlights the flatness of the new characters. Their backstories aren't reflected by their in game personalites.
Chains-An ex-military man who seems to enjoy the challenge of defending his own life, and a professional in terms of dealing with entities that aren't law enforcement.
The difference between him and Wolf's reaction to life threatening situations would be that Wolf loses it and finds satisfaction in the aftermath of an intense encounter, but wouldn't actively seek one out. Chains to me would seek these life threatening situations out, and thrives on fighting these threats.
These nuance differences between the original crew's characters make them more dimensional imo, and for the most part it's hard to seperate the personalities of the newer characters. But that should be expected when Bonnie and Clover's VA work was suppose to be for one character.
[editline]9th September 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;48644494]I actually lied. I think I cared more about TF2's artstyle, it was always very stylized. Its art shift was much more jarring because it lost its tight focus. (Even then it was never a thing I ever took offense at, it was always just an "oh, that's a shame" thing more than a game ruiner.) I always found Payday's art style to be bland and uninspiring. I never thought it had any real art direction to begin with. Can't break what was never there.[/QUOTE]
I mispoke, my mistake. I was more so referencing the environment and role you play in PDTH. You're right, there literally is no art style in PDTH. But the theme and direction of the game is clear imo. You're a professional criminal. In PD2 there still is a clear theme and direction. A less-professional criminal.
Gonna have to agree. Can't say I'm offended or angered by the non-core members but they're just flat-out boring. I recognize that it doesn't fucking matter because this game's story is a joke and who cares but I still think they're boring lazy characters. Ultimately doesn't matter, it isn't anything worth caring about in my opinion, just a passing observation.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;48644538]Gonna have to agree. Can't say I'm offended or angered by the non-core members but they're just flat-out boring. I recognize that it doesn't fucking matter because this game's story is a joke and who cares but I still think they're boring lazy characters. Ultimately doesn't matter, it isn't anything worth caring about in my opinion, just a passing observation.[/QUOTE]
Honestly I find the idea that Payday's story doesn't matter to be a complete excuse. If Payday's story didn't matter, then why the fuck does it exist? I mean you look at the first game, it barely had a story. 4 guys of various backgrounds get together to pull off a series of robberies directed by an anonymous guy in some basement somewhere. If the plot didn't matter at all, maybe it should have just stayed that way. Then we had that ARG which gave a bit of a hinting of story.
But now, in Payday 2, we've pushed story way up. If the story doesn't matter, then why did we do a shitty web series, why do we have contractors and story arcs, why did we have like 15 fucking heists dedicated to building up to breaking out Hoxton instead of just adding him back in with like one line of text saying he broke himself out? Why bother doing these big story and character pack trailers? Why did we then have a heist dedicated to finding the rat, why did we give a shit about who the rat was if the story of it didn't matter, and why does stealing nukes wow us when it shouldn't matter what impacts it might have on the characters and plotline?
No, the story does matter. Whether you think it should matter or whether or not it's well written is up to you, but it does matter. Otherwise, the game should just be like the first one and have a short narration on the premise of each heist with no overarching plotline.
Payday is a video game, and an incredibly arcadey one at that. All Payday's story is, is an excuse to get people into the action. It's mouth service that serves to drum up hype and advertise. We aren't talking about MGS here, we're talking about a game whose entire depth is shooting cops in the face. All that story stuff takes a huge back seat to shooting cops in the face. It's just as impactful as Killing Floor's story; it only exists so that we get to shoot Zeds in the face. It's what some would call an excuse plot. This is why I can't be bothered to care. It doesn't matter how or why we're breaking into the FBI office or whatever; the important part is that we're in the FBI office and it's fun.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;48644596]Payday is a video game, and an incredibly arcadey one at that. All Payday's story is, is an excuse to get people into the action. It's mouth service that serves to drum up hype and advertise. We aren't talking about MGS here, we're talking about a game whose entire depth is shooting cops in the face. All that story stuff takes a huge back seat to shooting cops in the face. It's just as impactful as Killing Floor's story; it only exists so that we get to shoot Zeds in the face. It's what some would call an excuse plot. This is why I can't be bothered to care. It doesn't matter how or why we're breaking into the FBI office or whatever; the important part is that we're in the FBI office and it's fun.[/QUOTE]
But then why have story arcs or any plot at all is my question :v:
I mean you really don't need some complicated story arc involving a dentist who's actually some sort of illuminati mastercriminal, you have 4 guys who want money, that's literally all the reason you need
To drum up hype and advertise. Some people are into that... but that comes with the recognition that the game would be exactly the same if the story wasn't there and it was just disparate levels. Dentist is an Illuminati master criminal because it serves as a hook to get customers to buy their next product, who want to see what happens next. It's a marketing tool. It's like a cheap comic book. All you're really there for is to see the heroes and villains fight, the story is inconsequential in that way. But they still have the hero hanging off the edge of a cliff so that you buy the next issue to see the arc resolve.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;48644572]Honestly I find the idea that Payday's story doesn't matter to be a complete excuse. If Payday's story didn't matter, then why the fuck does it exist? I mean you look at the first game, it barely had a story. 4 guys of various backgrounds get together to pull off a series of robberies directed by an anonymous guy in some basement somewhere. If the plot didn't matter at all, maybe it should have just stayed that way. Then we had that ARG which gave a bit of a hinting of story.
But now, in Payday 2, we've pushed story way up. If the story doesn't matter, then why did we do a shitty web series, why do we have contractors and story arcs, why did we have like 15 fucking heists dedicated to building up to breaking out Hoxton instead of just adding him back in with like one line of text saying he broke himself out? Why bother doing these big story and character pack trailers? Why did we then have a heist dedicated to finding the rat, why did we give a shit about who the rat was if the story of it didn't matter, and why does stealing nukes wow us when it shouldn't matter what impacts it might have on the characters and plotline?
No, the story does matter. Whether you think it should matter or whether or not it's well written is up to you, but it does matter. Otherwise, the game should just be like the first one and have a short narration on the premise of each heist with no overarching plotline.[/QUOTE]
In terms of Payday 2's story, I think there are even more parallels that can be made with TF2. In both games the story isn't explicitly expressed within the games, they're told mostly outside through trailers and comics. But in the case of Payday: The Heist, the only form of story expression was inside the game, through the heists. In PDTH, the game told it's story through the experience you got through the game and that was all. The experience was the story and it was a story the players had to somewhat make of their own. In Payday 2 the story is spelled out for you through external sources but the story doesn't match the feel of the game.
Anyway, I do think the story is important, but if it truly was a defining factor PDTH would be more of a competitive force against PD2, but that clearly isn't the case. The gameplay takes priority over the story, which I think it should. But the gameplay should be able to melt into the narrative and vice-versa, not clash.
I seem to have forgotten my point, oh well.
[QUOTE=BusinessRed;48644603]In terms of Payday 2's story, I think there are even more parallels that can be made with TF2. In both games the story isn't explicitly expressed within the games, they're told mostly outside through trailers and comics. But in the case of Payday: The Heist, the only form of story expression was inside the game, through the heists. In PDTH, the game told it's story through the experience you got through the game and that was all. The experience was the story and it was a story the players had to somewhat make of their own. In Payday 2 the story is spelled out for you through external sources but the story doesn't match the feel of the game.
Anyway, I do think the story is important, but if it truly was a defining factor PDTH would be more of a competitive force against PD2, but that clearly isn't the case. The gameplay takes priority over the story, which I think it should. But the gameplay should be able to melt into the narrative and vice-versa, not clash.
I seem to have forgotten my point, oh well.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying it's a defining factor, I'm just saying it does matter. Hell, if anything, the hierarchy of priorities is still story < gameplay < Gage Weapon Pack DLC
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;48644615]I'm not saying it's a defining factor, I'm just saying it does matter. Hell, if anything, the hierarchy of priorities is still story < gameplay < Gage Weapon Pack DLC[/QUOTE]
I agree with that statement, but the majority is going to care more about a gage weapon pack than keeping true to the original theme. I tell my friends about the new medieval pack and they tell me "Oooh that sounds really cool", even though it goes against Payday's original idea.
I wouldn't mind all those gimmicky weapon packs if Overkill didn't have other priorities to attend to, like fixing so many aspects of the whole damn game. But this has been going on for months, so I don't know if it's worth still hoping.
Anyone got that guide that shows what's the optimal way to get a specific mod through side jobs?
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;48643236]you guys are like this is shitty and lazy and looks like a bad port job I'll just get it on sale
why get it in the first place? If it sucks and you know you're not going to use any of it just don't buy it[/QUOTE]
or they're going to wet their pants as soon as Coyote raffles it off. Whichever comes first.
Shame that there is a tiny ninja crossbow and now there is going to be a fucking medieval crossbow, but the game still doesn't have a proper modern crossbow like this
[IMG]http://www.zdistrict.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/psetac15crossbow.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=HappyHead;48644882]Anyone got that guide that shows what's the optimal way to get a specific mod through side jobs?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=414045200[/url]
Ok, Saints Row cross-promotion, when?
I want to heist as Johnny Gat, killing Bulldozers with Dubstep Gun.
Both a good and a bad side with the newer weapon packs is that Overkill can pretty much make a DLC out of all the modern and not even so modern guns and they'll mostly end up the same, unless gun mechanics get radical changes, like burst fire and range dropoff to make different guns feel unique. Some stuff in the Historical, Wild West, Ninja and this chivalry pack atleast offer something a bit different(bows, crossbows, swords, (unusable)shields, lever-action rifle, throwing stars, poisoned knives, Han Solo's pistol, semi-auto sniper...), even if it's the sort of flavour I personally don't always like. Granted there is also plenty of powercreep in those to push the sales, not to just be purely different for difference's sake.
The inevitable Gage's Pirates/Revolution pack with black powder muskets will most likely offer singleshot shenanigans, bayonets and possibly even a blunderbuss/scattergun, so that's once again something different from getting a Failed USA Infantryman Weapon pack with ACR, XM8 and HK416 that all end up worse than the CAR-4 in any case. I'd still [I]personally[/I] prefer the guns, but they are starting to be really bland, yet I most likely will also skip the chivalry dlc, as it feels really, [B]really[/B] out of place.
The newer dlc also lacks 'big' gameplay changes that the old packs had. DLC#1 added grenades, a throwable! and weapon firemodes. Mod courier is almost obligatory and should be bundled with the base game. Shotgun pack was really nice, even if I don't prefer to use shotties. All of them had atleast a few ways to configure them, and the ammo choices really updated the shotgun meta. AR pack had Famas with its brrrrrrrrrrt, the good old Grenade Launcher and the configurable G3, which function carried over to CAR and AK series. LMG pack added, well, LMGs and Sniper pack added Snipers, both entirely new additions to the game. Hotline Miami included new smgs, which I haven't really used, so no comment on those and included a good heist. Historical pack added something for everyone from the previous packs and introduced the since unused bayonet mechanic, though I personally only like the Nagant from that pack, as the rest feel out of place. BBQ pack I didn't get either, but it also added something different with the fire mechanics and also updated some old weapons, albeit poorly, with fire ammo.
Granted, Ninja pack did [I]try[/I] to add poisoned weapons and silent throwables, which we even did get for free in the form of throwing cards, but the guns weren't even japanese and the melee weapons don't really fit the game imho. Western pack had old school guns and not much else. And the chivalry weapons are just plain silly. I might get a nice suprise come thursday if chivalry pack updates melee mechanics, but I somewhat doubt it.
At the moment I'd really like a free update that added an LMG, Sniper and a loud throwable for all the players, so that those weren't locked in behind a paywall. Then something like the aforementioned burst mechanic, even if it's paid dlc. Then roll in the retro-scifi raygun pack and whatnots.
tl;dr Newer dlcs add atleast something different at, imho, the cost of thematics because the core gameplay isn't flexible enough to simply keep adding new modern guns and making them different/worth it from what we already have. Or they could be, with some overhauling, which isn't seemingly happening as we get Gage's flavour of the month weapons instead. The latest packs also fail to really shake the game up, mostly consisting of gimmick weapons, masks, and a few achievements.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;48644243]That's actually one of my biggest disappointments about the masks, and has always been. I love the concept of these masked clown criminals like even more than most Payday fans and I always want more clown masks, but Overkill never seemed to be interested in that. If you had asked me what my first thought about the concept of this huge selection of masks would be before I started the game, I reckon I would have told you that there would be a large variety of clown masks, and crime movie related masks. I would expect a Dark Knight crossover with the clown masks from their bank robbery, and lots of heist movie related masks. I would expect there to be jesters, sad clowns, happy clowns, angry clowns, clowns abounds, and in the patterns I would reckon there'd be lots of clown and crime based patterns, different clown makeups that would fit on the masks that you could use. I wouldn't expect a mask that's a bizarre semi-reference to IHNMAIMS, or monkey masks, or a fuckin' Elvis pompadour. I also would have expected a variety of suits and outfits to wear, many of them references to famous games and movies, as you expand your wardrobe and with the safehouse customization, have some kind of ultra pad that let's you portray a little bit of the extravagant lifestyle these guys should be leading. And maybe, as DLC or some shit, you could create your very own clown mask, with your very own imported patterns.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that Payday doesn't stick much to the theme of the game. To go on another tangent, clowns performing heists is the overall thing here right? But we take out cartels and fuck with politics and do extortion and all this shit that has nothing to do with robbery, and most DLC that comes out has nothing to do with anything. If you had asked me what DLC I would expect for this game, I would tell you more bank robberies, casino robberies, jewelry stores, art galleries, artifacts, contracts inspired by y'know, heist movies. And while it's true that one of each of those is in the game, it's usually, well, one. I'd never say we'd be stealing a fuckin' nuke. With weapons I'd tell you we'd be using assault rifles, pistols, SMGs, and shotguns, maybe a sniper. I wouldn't say grenades, LMGs, molotov cocktails, a fucking bow and arrow, another bow and arrow, swords, flamethrowers, rocket launchers, massive body armor, crossbows, 1900s weapons, 1800s weapons, and all kinds of gimmicky bullshit.
What is Payday about anymore? Professional clowns robbing shit, or mercenaries with dumbass weapons going on Saint's Row level destruction for cartoon characters? Because the answer is mercenaries with dumbass weapons going on Saint's Row level destruction for cartoon characters.[/QUOTE]
I almost completely agree but P:TH had LMGs and they were great in certain scenarios, along with huge body armour it makes sense for the crew to use them. (In fact, the real problem is that LMGs weren't initially included in Payday 2 and are still locked behind a paywall.) Gear like that is pretty tame compared to the fantastic heists they pulled off, like airlifting a panic room and breaking into a skyscraper for diamonds. On that note, I like Meltdown on the basis that it's a return to the slight absurdity of the first game.
I suppose it's about balance really. Payday was originally over the top with its characters, cop waves and heists but it never went too far. Slaughterhouse was a simple armoured transport but Overkill managed to make it exciting. On the other hand Payday 2 stepped away from the movie inspiration for dull sub-plots about branch banks and senator's flats, but now we've ended up with medieval weaponry of all things. Sometimes I wonder how Overkill got so much right in the first game given that they've missed the point of it from one extreme to the other over the past few years.
[QUOTE=DoktorAkcel;48645024]Ok, Saints Row cross-promotion, when?
I want to heist as Johnny Gat, killing Bulldozers with Dubstep Gun.[/QUOTE]
No please, we don't need more gimmicky weapons, PLUS a saint row cross over character won't even work, it's because both games have different story lines and universes, John wick was fitting to be a cross over because the movie universe he is from is fitting to be the payday universe, due to no huge events happening in both universes, unlike in saint row in which Washington DC is invaded by aliens, and payday Washington DC is not, so a saint row character won't work, unless he traveled through universes using a machine blah blah yeah that doesn't work too, jacket is an example of this too, while he is still good, he still doesn't fit in the story line/universe of payday at all, due to the universe which jacket came from had a huge event in it [sp]in which America and Russia were on war and its possible that one of both sides lost the war, so if the payday universe was in the hotline Miami universe too, don't you think there should be Russian soldiers attacking the streets of Washington, D.C. While you rob and heist stuff?[/sp]
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;48645154]I almost completely agree but P:TH had LMGs and they were great in certain scenarios, along with huge body armour it makes sense for the crew to use them. (In fact, the real problem is that LMGs weren't initially included in Payday 2 and are still locked behind a paywall.) Gear like that is pretty tame compared to the fantastic heists they pulled off, like airlifting a panic room and breaking into a skyscraper for diamonds. On that note, I like Meltdown on the basis that it's a return to the slight absurdity of the first game.
I suppose it's about balance really. Payday was originally over the top with its characters, cop waves and heists but it never went too far. Slaughterhouse was a simple armoured transport but Overkill managed to make it exciting. On the other hand Payday 2 stepped away from the movie inspiration for dull sub-plots about branch banks and senator's flats, but now we've ended up with medieval weaponry of all things. Sometimes I wonder how Overkill got so much right in the first game given that they've missed the point of it from one extreme to the other over the past few years.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I forgot about the PDTH Brenner, but it mostly acted like a big assault rifle, the paywalled PD2 LMGs now even have some specific skills and unique if rather dumb gameplay mechanics.
I also agree with the pendulum of going from super serious to robbing banks with a medieval crossbows and native indian bows, balance seems to be missing nowadays. Some of the earlier heists are also rather tame as you said, when compared to some of the newer ones. Maybe it's the effect (or lack of) of Goldfarb...
[QUOTE=Mochnel;48645167]No please, we don't need more gimmicky weapons, PLUS a saint row cross over character won't even work, it's because both games have different story lines and universes, John wick was fitting to be a cross over because the movie universe he is from is fitting to be the payday universe, due to no huge events happening in both universes, unlike in saint row in which Washington DC is invaded by aliens, and payday Washington DC is not, so a saint row character won't work, unless he traveled through universes using a machine blah blah yeah that doesn't work too, jacket is an example of this too, while he is still good, he still doesn't fit in the story line/universe of payday at all, due to the universe which jacket came from had a huge event in it [sp]in which America and Russia were on war and its possible that one of both sides lost the war, so if the payday universe was in the hotline Miami universe too, don't you think there should be Russian soldiers attacking the streets of Washington, D.C. While you rob and heist stuff?[/sp][/QUOTE]
The only thing mentioned about Jacket's backstory in Payday 2 is that he "once" (not in the 80's, just "once"!) wiped russian mafia in Miami. He also looks quite young and his age is "Unknown". So, it's safe to assume that PD2 Jacket is not the same Jacket from Hotline Miami, but rather some guy who became a psycho and killed mafia for unknown reasons (Not because what happened in HLM2, that is a different universe!) and who appears to look just like the protag of HLM.
My head canon is that Payday!Jacket is actually [sp]Manny Pardo who finally snapped. AU Pardo, of course.[/sp]
Did anyone mention that the cushion material from the hotline dlc is literally the same one from [URL="http://www.cgtextures.com/texview.php?id=29954&PHPSESSID=9n7llimps6ig1ktj3ugljmuuf0"]cgtextures?[/URL]
I actually really dislike how you went from being bank robbers to a bunch of thugs wielding rocket launchers and miniguns that set cops on fire.
I really hate it when games break the own theme they've established. Chains the Enforcer with his ICTV and his M249 was rad as shit, but you barely see that anymore because it's now Chains the Molotov Maniac with a Minigun and an RPG-7.
[QUOTE=HappyHead;48645473]Did anyone mention that the cushion material from the hotline dlc is literally the same one from [URL="http://www.cgtextures.com/texview.php?id=29954&PHPSESSID=9n7llimps6ig1ktj3ugljmuuf0"]cgtextures?[/URL][/QUOTE]
Most if not all companies use stock images and textures from time to time for their projects.
nothing all that new here.
[QUOTE=Eldariub;48645323]My head canon is that Payday!Jacket is actually [sp]Manny Pardo who finally snapped. AU Pardo, of course.[/sp][/QUOTE]
My head-canon is that it's just an extension of Wolf's madness, he overdoses on some sort of wacky new drug and believes himself to be the fabled Masked murderer until he comes down.
...Same goes for Bonnie (sometimes a man just wants to feel pretty.. and Scottish)
[QUOTE=HappyHead;48645715][url]http://www.overkillsoftware.com/games/gagechivalrypack/[/url]
laaame[/QUOTE]
While PD2 gets some melee weps and...more masks and some bows, Chivalry gets...a Medieval version of Dallas. Ehh.
EDIT: The spear is badass though. I wonder if it can pierce armor.
[QUOTE=HappyHead;48645715][url]http://www.overkillsoftware.com/games/gagechivalrypack/[/url]
laaame[/QUOTE]
The amount of power creep is insane with these.
Also, light crossbow, 28 concealment. Heavy crossbow, 29 concealment. k
I wouldn't mind a James Bond crossover heist when the new movie comes out. Having a Walther PPK would be pretty sweet.
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