never dying at all can be fixed with not having infinite bleedout
limit it to 30 seconds
[QUOTE=Mallow234;48676163]Aight, I'll fucking purge it from my ops[/QUOTE]
That particular spectator script is annoying as hell.
"Oh you respawned? Well too bad, I'll keep being active so you can't move or do anything. Nor can you press Esc or anything else unless you manually kill arma trough the task manager ;)"
[QUOTE=Whitefox08;48676147][hd]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDNM3LKws54[/hd][/QUOTE]
26:05
Fragg complaining about the water while ducking in and out gave me a fucking stroke from laughing so much
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;48676182]never dying at all can be fixed with not having infinite bleedout
limit it to 30 seconds[/QUOTE]
We tried that once and it was awful, it doesn't fix the issue of never dying to anything and just makes it so people bleed out after any stupid and easily treatable thing.
[editline]adasd[/editline]
I remember ACE 2 medical being far less shit than this one, i don't know if it's because we're using the basic version or it's just kinda shitty.
[QUOTE=wheel_user;48676220]We tried that once and it was awful, it doesn't fix the issue of never dying to anything and just makes it so people bleed out after any stupid and easily treatable thing.
[editline]adasd[/editline]
I remember ACE 2 medical being far less shit than this one, i don't know if it's because we're using the basic version or it's just kinda shitty.[/QUOTE]
Basic is ultra shit. Advanced is about 100x better if people know how to use it. My experience with basic is someone gets shot once and I have to use 20 bandages to fix him because his entire body is bleeding. If anyone decides to use advanced then i recommend allowing anyone to use PAKs and making PAKs infinite, otherwise everyone will be walking around with broken legs or stuck in unconsciousness.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;48676182]never dying at all can be fixed with not having infinite bleedout
limit it to 30 seconds[/QUOTE]
How about a more medic/first aid manageable rate of 120-300 seconds?
We experimented a lot with bleedout rates in ACE over at Broma and a 30 second timer will render any guy in need of an actual medic dead, because fixing up all the holes and/or PAKing takes up too much time.
Also in regards to instakill+1res on this op, our medic was the first guy to die. Yep.
[editline]13th September 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=dragon1972;48676279]Basic is ultra shit. Advanced is about 100x better if people know how to use it. My experience with basic is someone gets shot once and I have to use 20 bandages to fix him because his entire body is bleeding. If anyone decides to use advanced then i recommend allowing anyone to use PAKs and making PAKs infinite, otherwise everyone will be walking around with broken legs or stuck in unconsciousness.[/QUOTE]
That's also a very important thing. Medics are usually altered to be medical equipment mules/super fast healers, while units can PAK+first aid guys which got lightly injured. That way the mission doesn't end up becoming super dangerous if both medics get shot and nobody can PAK them back out of the revive state.
I agree that instadeath + 1 respawn is a Good Idea™. People itt who disagree with this are exaggerating their arguments.
But I also agree that you gotta fix that stupid spectator thing. It was the F3 Framework one that we're all complaining about.
I recommend giving people curator access but stripping it of power. Or make a little "dead box" that people respawn into and they have to sit in there until the respawn trigger activates. Make the box in the starting staging area and it just teleports them out of it when it's time. While in the box, they can fuck around and open Zeus to fly around and spectate.
Instadeath makes medics totally useless.
I would agree on that there would be a timer to the current medical system of 2 minutes unconcious (if you are damaged bad and won't wake up) = you bleed out and die, with 2 respawns.
That way, people value their lives, but do not get out of the game completely. Every second death is more scary and forces you to be more careful.
As for the "hurr our medics died first what the fuck is this shit then" - don't make them go die first?
To begin with, shit happens like that in real life as well, but complaining about that never works.
Furthermore, this is more akin to that situation with convoying we had long ago an argument about: we were rammed from behind after a sudden stop, to which we were told "lol, next time drive off the road so you wont get rammed into" but why the fuck am I supposed to do that if you can simply keep the corresponding distance????
tl;dr don't be stupid, instant death is okay, just make more than one respawn.
[QUOTE=IrishBandit;48676523]Instadeath makes medics totally useless.[/QUOTE]
Not true at all. Instadeath happens when you get shot in the head or eat an HMG to the face like that one guy did when he climbed the ladder in front of the BTR earlier today.
It makes Medics less necessary, but the arguments itt against instadeath have been exaggerating due to ignorance of how it works (e.g. "little piece of shrapnel in my leg and omg instakilled"). I'm not saying I know it intimately myself but I know for a fact that just because instadeath is enabled doesn't mean that you always die instead of getting knocked unconscious or getting just injured&bleeding (the latter happened to me in this mission today). Anyone who tries to say otherwise either is exaggerating or just doesn't know what they're talking about.
From my experience, having insta-death on means that getting shot in the torso will kill you instantly.
Recap of today's OP, viewed from Bravo squads (balugo) perspective
[media]https://youtu.be/bFQJ8-omOPE[/media]
The littlebird was redudant in that mission, while it was used it wasn't capable of lifting the ammunition crates, the Chinook was pretty large and the starting Gimmick was totally a no-no.
I could've used a smaller helicopter, and from my experience the Chinook is too big for most areas of Al-rayak where you are flanked by trees, needing you to have someone on the gun or sitting in the back to make sure you don't hit a tree or rock.
So I heard a lot of complaining about Mike taking platoon lead and just assuming command of everything. Which I would isn't fine at all, if you're not in charge, don't pretend like you are. Offer advice sure, but only that.
Oddly enough I haven't heard anyone really mention this anywhere that wasn't in the TS with almost nobody around? If you don't approve of what someone is doing, why don't you tell? There's no admins to hover around everywhere keeping track of everything. It's not possible for us to know what's going on all the time.
"This is Sakura actual, taking command of ground forces"
Whitefox, bless his cotton socks, was trying to be platoon lead with mike constantly taking command.
And oh god, the briefing.
Were Mallow (THE MISSIONS MAKER) was trying to talk and mike told him to shut up.
The Chinook insertion was totally unnecessary. Why could we not just have boats off the coast of the island and run to them rather than having a huge helicopter carry us a hundred feet?
[QUOTE=Tinter;48676746]So I heard a lot of complaining about Mike taking platoon lead and just assuming command of everything. Which I would isn't fine at all, if you're not in charge, don't pretend like you are. Offer advice sure, but only that.
Oddly enough I haven't heard anyone really mention this anywhere that wasn't in the TS with almost nobody around? If you don't approve of what someone is doing, why don't you tell? There's no admins to hover around everywhere keeping track of everything. It's not possible for us to know what's going on all the time.[/QUOTE]
I had absolutely no problem with him doing that during the op and tbh I felt that it was necessary at the time.
When the leadership people are KIA, isn't someone supposed to step up and take charge of the situation? (or in this case at least until the leadership people respawn?)
I think the complaints are much ado about nothing and just butthurt
As far as I heard though it was while whitefox was alive, and if that was indeed the case then it's definitely not okay.
[editline]14th September 2015[/editline]
But of course I don't know all the details, I only know this happened because I heard complaints of it. I'm just mentioning since I'm tired of hearing people complain about someone's behavior instead of telling them to do things differently.
Also about the instadeath thing:
[B]First, I just want to say that I'm not married to the idea of enabling it all the time or whatever. This post is just to say that if you're going to be against something... at least be against it for a legitimate reason.[/B]
I actually wrote an effortpost about how I went into the editor and experimented with that stuff but unfortunately I accidentally lost it in a mess of ctrl+c ctrl+v stuff everywhere. :smith: So instead of the effortpost, I'll just summarize and post some screenshots:
* If you think that instadeath is bad because grenades will kill you with what you think is "just a little shrapnel in your leg", then you are [i]greatly misjudging the kill radius of a grenade[/i] (which is consistent across both modded ones and vanilla ones). Grenades will either kill you or hit you for at most 75% damage.
[img]http://puu.sh/kaqiO/f746fa8458.jpg[/img]
[img]http://puu.sh/kaqjL/7365adb9d4.jpg[/img]
* If you think that instadeath is bad because it renders medics completely useless, then you are misunderstanding how getting knocked unconscious works. When you drop below 30% health from a bullet wound, you will always go unconscious. When you drop below 30% health from a grenade explosion, which is a different type of wound in ACE 3, you will not fall unconscious.
[img]http://puu.sh/kapKW/77dbf879ec.jpg[/img]
[img]http://puu.sh/kaqqP/55f2020f91.jpg[/img]
* If the AI have 7.62 caliber weapons (e.g. AK-103) then you're probably going to die in 1 or 2 shots to anywhere but the arms. Everything else will either deal 100% damage (e.g. a headshot) or will deal 30%~60% damage (e.g. legs and chest). [i]So just give the AI 5.56 or 9mm weapons so that you can survive more hits[/i].
[img]http://puu.sh/kapNq/729b4c8596.jpg[/img]
The bottom line is this: enabling instadeath is fair and milsim® because it's hardmode and forces people to play more safely. If dying from 1~2 bullets to the chest makes you butthurt because you didn't think it was fair to die when you peaked out from cover as the AI was already spraying your location in the first place, then just give the AI lower caliber weapons (e.g. 9mm, 5.56) so that you can tank more shots.
---
That's the gist of what my effortpost was going to say.
[editline]14th September 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tinter;48677299]As far as I heard though it was while whitefox was alive, and if that was indeed the case then it's definitely not okay.
[editline]14th September 2015[/editline]
But of course I don't know all the details, I only know this happened because I heard complaints of it. I'm just mentioning since I'm tired of hearing people complain about someone's behavior instead of telling them to do things differently.[/QUOTE]
sry for double post but i want to add that as a person who was there at the time: we had no idea who was alive and who wasn't. as far as we all knew, nobody was responding on radios and all of the leadership was dead except for him (because he was the only leadership person there at the radar dish, which was where we all naturally congregated after the BTRs destroyed us). and when the leadership showed back up to the radar dishes after respawning there was no drama or anything from anyone at the time about it.
So wait, when you say instadeath you just mean [url]http://vgy.me/IvB1Zc.png[/url] ?
Because all my missions have had it like that forever.
And the one time I did try it on, it didn't work.
Eh, you can make the case for instant death all you want but in the end, when respawn isn't setup properly and you can't get back into the fight easily or quickly people taper off really quickly and leave.
FPARMA isn't mil-sim and it's not that people aren't careful, but shit happens, like laser kebab AI or, falling through a wall by turning in place or whatever.
Fun > Realism
the AI can already basically instakill you with bullshit aim, forcing people to put up with that after being hit once as opposed to thrice is much the same as giving someone a wry smile right before ripping their tooth out
it isn't cool and it isn't fun
[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;48677475]Fun > Realism[/QUOTE]
Not enough people seem to understand this.
[QUOTE=Holt!;48677495]Not enough people seem to understand this.[/QUOTE]
That's the core of the issue I guess: fun is subjective
edit-- I'd honestly be cool with BF2 style 30s respawns on squad leaders if they're alive or otherwise back at base. That's fun too tbh.
The whole ace medical system just seems to be set up oddly either way. If I could have it my way I'd probably make it so you'd need a lot of damage to actually die instead of going unconscious. A mortar shell on your head should kill you, but not if it exploded a bit away from you.
[QUOTE=Aurelian;48677516]That's the core of the issue I guess: fun is subjective
edit-- I'd honestly be cool with BF2 style 30s respawns on squad leaders if they're alive or otherwise back at base. That's fun too tbh.[/QUOTE]
We've had staggered respawns, you can be killed, and only respawn after a checkpoint has been reached, which has worked well sometimes, in one of Fartparty's convoy ops (that was like 3 hours across altis) it worked.
[QUOTE=Tinter;48677529]The whole ace medical system just seems to be set up oddly either way. If I could have it my way I'd probably make it so you'd need a lot of damage to actually die instead of going unconscious. A mortar shell on your head should kill you, but not if it exploded a bit away from you.[/QUOTE]
I looked around the Github thing and found these lines that you could probably edit easily to get it done:
[url]http://github.com/acemod/ACE3/blob/master/addons/medical/functions/fnc_setHitPointDamage.sqf#L81[/url]
and
[url]http://github.com/acemod/ACE3/blob/7b349ab388572630b7056f1712af04fd3d8b3caf/addons/medical/functions/fnc_handleDamage_caching.sqf#L28[/url]
or maybe this too
[url]http://github.com/acemod/ACE3/blob/f0a074072f0fcf4c92c7669a031f97dba210dd2f/addons/medical/functions/fnc_setStructuralDamage.sqf#L21[/url]
Just multiply it by a percentage to scale it all down. Then push the changes to the (edit-->) modpack and boom we can absorb more damage.
[QUOTE=Holt!;48676785]"This is Sakura actual, taking command of ground forces"
Whitefox, bless his cotton socks, was trying to be platoon lead with mike constantly taking command[/QUOTE]
Whitefox was no where to be found and at the time it was my understanding that I was the last remaining SL and everyone besides me, some of my squad, and 5-7 guys from assortment of squads was dead and off coast. Once croguy came back I gave his guys back and stepped back down. Not to mention the fact that this scenario only occurred once.
[QUOTE=Holt!;48676785]Were Mallow (THE MISSIONS MAKER) was trying to talk and mike told him to shut up.[/QUOTE]
Also it's apparently too much to ask not to get talked over
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;48677703]Whitefox was no where to be found and at the time it was my understanding that I was the last remaining SL and everyone besides me, some of my squad, and 5-7 guys from assortment of squads was dead and off coast. Once croguy came back I gave his guys back and stepped back down.[/QUOTE]
I was there and can confirm this.
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