Black Mesa Source V5 - "They're still working on Xen?"

[TextFAMGUY1]

[QUOTE=Xubs;47762810]are you guys still planning on making a new shotgun model? As well as a crossbow one? I think those two need improvement.[/QUOTE]

Crossbow, yes. Shotgun, maybe, maybe not. I think we're leaning towards not at the moment but I'm not sure.

[Tommyx50]

[QUOTE=Hell-met;47762604]oh yeah we notice it.

The houndeyes in BM are like an hivemind. they all run on the very same path attached together like some sort of train. No hesitation or flanking. They're literally a caterpillar steamrolling your way.[/QUOTE]

I just tested, and the HL1 houndeyes work almost the same in combat. They don't have a few of the AI quirks, but in terms of combat the HL1 houndeyes don't flank. They just run up to the minimum distance and attack ASAP...

[BoxBuilder999]

Is it just me or are the hgrunts like [I][B]really really really[/B][/I] afraid of agrunt hornets? It's getting extremely ridiculous when one agrunt can lock an entire squad of hgrunts into cowering like pussies and then melee them to death one by one.

[TextFAMGUY1]

[QUOTE=BoxBuilder999;47763714]Is it just me or are the hgrunts like [I][B]really really really[/B][/I] afraid of agrunt hornets? It's getting extremely ridiculous when one agrunt can lock an entire squad of hgrunts into cowering like pussies and then melee them to death one by one.[/QUOTE]

We know about this and it will be fixed in the next patch. The cowering is meant to be a very rare behaviour but right now it seems to happen most of the time and they get stuck in it indefinitely.

I actually picked up on this right before release and was whinging and QQ'ing about it to our programmers a lot, because Alien vs Marine scenes are my thing and I worked on a few in our SP. So seeing it be that broken was heartbreaking for me. It requires a few potentially destructive edits so we've held off on it until we've had a few more time. Hopefully, if all goes according to plan, the next update will feature a nice little AI pass. Hopefully!

[BoxBuilder999]

[QUOTE=TextFAMGUY1;47763851]We know about this and it will be fixed in the next patch. The cowering is meant to be a very rare behaviour but right now it seems to happen most of the time and they get stuck in it indefinitely.

I actually picked up on this right before release and was whinging and QQ'ing about it to our programmers a lot, because Alien vs Marine scenes are my thing and I worked on a few in our SP. So seeing it be that broken was heartbreaking for me. It requires a few potentially destructive edits so we've held off on it until we've had a few more time. Hopefully, if all goes according to plan, the next update will feature a nice little AI pass. Hopefully![/QUOTE]

Also, grunts can't fire RPGs anymore. They play a firing animation, but they can't fire.

Also, grunts using turrets are bugged as well. Bullets come out of their heads, and they seem to be firing normal SMG bullets.

[Trekintosh]

[QUOTE=Ziron;47762099]The only reason why you notice it is because of the videos pointing it out. Were it not for them, the Houndeyes would be generic early-game trash enemies that, at worst, appear to occassionaly have their AI flake out for no apparent reason and randomly create large and more powerful soundwaves to keep the player on their toes.

It's not a good sign of AI development if the player never notices some cool bit of the AI normally. Halo 2 had a similar problem in development; the AI programmers made a deep emotion system to govern how the AI behaved, but test players never noticed it, so they scrapped it for more traditional AI, because, despite the deep system implemented, the AI seemed to be the same as other games on the player's end.[/QUOTE]

Well thank you for insulting every single player's attentiveness and intelligence. I, for one, did notice Houndeyes' napping behavior back when I first played Half-Life. I thought it added a lot to the game, really. All these little details make the game feel more alive. You seem to be thinking that 100% of the players only care about raw gameplay 100% of the time, and you appear to not look at the bigger picture of the game world. Try stepping back a few paces.

[scriminamp]

Any chance of the dynamic lights returning? I sort of miss them :(

[Sweet Berries]

My friend said he wanted this game, so I gifted him Half-Life: Source as a joke and told him it's "The official valve one"

[Sweet Berries]

no

[Whatsinaname]

The new soldier AI plus the addition of more soldiers turned the big battle near the end of Forget About Freeman from kind of disappointing to one of the best parts of the whole game.

[Tommyx50]

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;47764853]That is interesting though.
I'll do some searching on my own but was that really the reason? Because it seems strange that it'd be their main reason for scrapping such a huge investment like that when it's already far enough along that it's in the game giving them results.
You sure it had absolutely no relation to the fact that they had to cut like 3/4ths of what they originally had planned for Halo 2 at the time? Because they just didn't have the time they needed to really refine and polish it and get it where they wanted it along with the entire product over?

And this was all just on a general level FYI. I don't think we're making this specifically about Black Mesa or Half-Life.[/QUOTE]

They'd scrap it because ultimately it's self-defeating.

Here's the thing that'll I'll say again but again risk being showered with boxes - gameplay and AI are often in conflict. Good AI means responsive and varied behaviours, and varied behaviours also means more difficulty to design around. Good AIs usually have a number of complex and unpredictable behaviours, often incorporating fuzzy logic and complex decision trees which they path through. By the very nature of complex or random decisions, they take control away from the designer - part of this is why procedural generation in games has taken so long to feel right, because instead of a designer placing down health packs at the optimal distances through the game to control the gameplay flow and difficulty, instead they are working with % chances and other random elements which aren't nearly as easy to work with.

In the terms on an AI, it boils down to this: why would you use extra CPU power, RAM, and make your life harder for the designers as they try to figure out how to manage gameplay situations so that the AI can't abuse them, when people don't even notice the improved AI?

It's better in this case to simplify it and make the life of your designers easier, make gameplay situations consistent and easily play-testable, and give extra power for the graphics programmers to use.

[WhyNott]

can anyone post a copy of their gameinfo.txt? I'm having some serious issues and this could help

[BoxBuilder999]

[QUOTE=WhyNott;47765597]can anyone post a copy of their gameinfo.txt? I'm having some serious issues and this could help[/QUOTE]

"GameInfo"
{
game "Black Mesa"
gamelogo 1
developer "Crowbar Collective"
developer_url "http://www.blackmesasource.com/"
type "both"

gamelogo 1
SupportsDX8 0
SupportsXbox360 1
nomodels 1
nocrosshair 1
GameData "../bms"
InstancePath "bms/mapsrc/"

hidden_maps
{
"background01" 1
"background02" 1
"background03" 1
"background04" 1
"background05" 1
"background06" 1
"background07" 1
"background08" 1
"background09" 1
"background10" 1
"background11" 1
"background12" 1
"background13" 1
"background14" 1

"bm_c0a0a" 1
"bm_c0a0b" 1
"bm_c0a0c" 1
"bm_c1a0a" 1
"bm_c1a0b" 1
"bm_c1a1a" 1
"bm_c1a1b" 1
"bm_c1a1c" 1
"bm_c1a1d" 1
"bm_c1a1e" 1
"bm_c1a2a" 1
"bm_c1a2b" 1
"bm_c1a2c" 1
"bm_c1a3a" 1
"bm_c1a3b" 1
"bm_c1a3c" 1
"bm_c1a4a" 1
"bm_c1a4b" 1
"bm_c1a4c" 1
"bm_c1a4d" 1
"bm_c1a4e" 1
"bm_c2a1a" 1
"bm_c2a1b" 1
"bm_c2a2a" 1
"bm_c2a2b" 1
"bm_c2a2c" 1
"bm_c2a3a" 1
"bm_c2a3b" 1
"bm_c2a3c" 1
"bm_c2a4a" 1
"bm_c2a4b" 1
"bm_c2a4c" 1
"bm_c2a4d" 1
"bm_c2a4e" 1
"bm_c2a4f" 1
"bm_c2a4g" 1
"bm_c2a4h" 1
"bm_c2a5a" 1
"bm_c2a5b" 1
"bm_c2a5c" 1
"bm_c2a5d" 1
"bm_c2a5e" 1
"bm_c2a5f" 1
"bm_c2a5g" 1
"bm_c3a1a" 1
"bm_c3a1b" 1
"bm_c3a2a" 1
"bm_c3a2b" 1
"bm_c3a2c" 1
"bm_c3a2d" 1
"bm_c3a2e" 1
"bm_c3a2f" 1
"bm_c3a2g" 1
"bm_c3a2h" 1

"credits" 1
}

FileSystem
{
SteamAppId 362890
ToolsAppId 211

//
// Search paths are relative to the base directory, which is where hl2.exe is found.
//
// |gameinfo_path| points at the directory where gameinfo.txt is.
// We always want to mount that directory relative to gameinfo.txt, so
// people can mount stuff in c:\mymod, and the main game resources are in
// someplace like c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\half-life 2.
//
SearchPaths
{
// We search VPK files before ordinary folders, because most files will be found in
// VPK and we can avoid making thousands of file system calls to attempt to open files
// in folders where they don't exist. (Searching a VPK is much faster than making an operating
// system call.)
game+mod bms/custom/*

// Black Mesa VPK files.
game+mod bms/bms_textures.vpk
game+mod bms/bms_materials.vpk
game+mod bms/bms_models.vpk
game+mod bms/bms_misc.vpk
game+mod bms/bms_sounds_misc.vpk
game+mod bms/bms_sound_vo_english.vpk

// HL2 VPK files.
game |all_source_engine_paths|hl2/hl2_misc.vpk
game |all_source_engine_paths|hl2/hl2_sounds_misc.vpk
game |all_source_engine_paths|hl2/hl2_textures.vpk
game |all_source_engine_paths|hl2/hl2_materials.vpk
game |all_source_engine_paths|hl2/hl2_models.vpk

// Platform VPK files.
platform |all_source_engine_paths|platform/platform_misc.vpk

// Now search loose files. We'll set the directory containing the gameinfo.txt file
// as the first "mod" search path (after any user customizations). This is also the one
// that's used when writing to the "mod" path.
mod+mod_write+default_write_path |gameinfo_path|.

// Add the BMS directory as a game search path. This is also where where writes
// to the "game" path go.
game+game_write bms

// Where the game's binaries are.
gamebin |gameinfo_path|bin

// Add the HL2 directory as a game search path. This is also where where writes
// to the "game" path go.
//game hl2

// Last, mount in shared HL2 loose files
game |all_source_engine_paths|hl2
platform |all_source_engine_paths|platform
}
}
}

[WhyNott]

thankyou

although in a attempt to solve my issue I accidentally deleted my bms copy so I'll have to wait until it redownload to see if it's working

thx anyway

[Ownederd]

[QUOTE=Sweet Berries;47765334]My friend said he wanted this game, so I gifted him Half-Life: Source as a joke and told him it's "The official valve one"[/QUOTE]

hl: source is just a bizarre and broken mess so i can see why black mesa was made as a response to it

[BoxBuilder999]

[QUOTE=Ownederd;47766316]hl: source is just a bizarre and broken mess so i can see why black mesa was made as a response to it[/QUOTE]

I found a version of Half-Life Source running on the old 2004 Source engine online and I can confirm that HL:S was only broken along the way during Valve's many engine updates and "upgrades." Less glitchy physics, no infinitely rotating/screaming scientists, etc.

[TextFAMGUY1]

[QUOTE=Whatsinaname;47765394]The new soldier AI plus the addition of more soldiers turned the big battle near the end of Forget About Freeman from kind of disappointing to one of the best parts of the whole game.[/QUOTE]

I redid that bit :v: It was a lot of work, glad someone appreciated it!

[Dr.Cola]

I thought half-life source was made as an example of porting from goldsrc to source

[Tuskin]

[QUOTE=Dr.Cola;47766478]I thought half-life source was made as an example of porting from goldsrc to source[/QUOTE]

That is exactly what it was.

[Starscre4M]

[QUOTE=Dr.Cola;47766478]I thought half-life source was made as an example of porting from goldsrc to source[/QUOTE]

and how bad it was.

[salty peanut]

does that mean I won't be able to win that fight using nothing but the laser rifle anymore

I liked that about that fight because it's like the army is all "yeah now we got him cornered" but they didn't anticipate you having a fucking laser rifle and you can just blow them all away with it

[lilrobot]

is there a way to make it so that i can fire the glock as fast as i click while still using left click instead of right click?
that's just something that really irks me is all.

[Hell-met]

is the only RPG grunt at the end of OAR?

I only saw him a mere moment before I accidently destroyed everything

[Kyle v2]

I've been working on a more advanced character randomization system, but unfortunately all the alternate skins all explode into the same default gibs despite there being hexed models and proper entries for them in gib_manifest.txt, will one of the updates you guys are planning for the gibbing system resolve this?

[Sableye]

so i just got paid, is this worth buying it over the free version? i plan on getting it someday, but i still enjoy black mesa quite a bit still

[BoxBuilder999]

[QUOTE=Hell-met;47767716]is the only RPG grunt at the end of OAR?

I only saw him a mere moment before I accidently destroyed everything[/QUOTE]

There's also an RPG grunt who fires at the Gargantua in Power Up. However, for some reason grunts can't fire RPGs now (probably due to the model change).

[RaikohZX]

Whoo, a friend of mine gifted me this for my birthday. Once my net's freed up I might dedicate another playthrough in my spare time, I figured it was fun enough the first go through in the mod version so maybe this will be interesting to spot the changes.

[Whatsinaname]

[QUOTE=TextFAMGUY1;47766470]I redid that bit :v: It was a lot of work, glad someone appreciated it![/QUOTE]

You know, not to kiss your ass or anything, but you are really good at encounter design. I'm honestly pretty baffled that you apparently look back on your uncut stuff thinking you could now do way better, considering that the quality of those areas already rivals that of the rest of the game.

[TextFAMGUY1]

[QUOTE=Xubs;47770233]yeeeeeeeup, it's basically just better, more polished, more fun, prettier Black Mesa. And the devs are working hard on making it even prettier and more fun, so it'll only get better.

Can anyone confirm to me if the maps have prebaked ambient occlusion? I've heard people say they do, and they kind of look like they do, but if it is there, it's subtle. I know some of the [I]models[/I] have prebaked AO, but I wanna know if the maps for-sure do.[/QUOTE]

They do. And it makes a big difference, actually. It makes the lighting overall look a lot nicer and less "flat," and much nicer in corners/edges though you wouldn't necessarily notice it outright if you weren't looking for it. Some of our level designers (myself included) didn't really see much of a difference until direct comparisons were posted. But it does a lot to the overall feel, even if you don't necessarily notice it.

You can see it in action in some of the screenshots this dude made [URL="http://forums.blackmesasource.com/index.php/Thread/28045-Black-Mesa-2012-vs-Black-Mesa-2015-Image-Comparisons/"]here[/URL]. We're going to get some nice official comparisons up at some point as well.

It also makes the compile times roughly 6x longer (when you compile with it on the final settings)! Some of the maps go from taking 20 minutes to compile to 2 hours! Yowch.

[QUOTE=Whatsinaname;47769669]You know, not to kiss your ass or anything, but you are really good at encounter design. I'm honestly pretty baffled that you apparently look back on your uncut stuff thinking you could now do way better, considering that the quality of those areas already rivals that of the rest of the game.[/QUOTE]

You may see what I'm talking about at some point when I say that. But thanks for the kind words! I think encounter/gameplay design is my strong point as a level designer, and I know the team said that was mostly why they hired me to begin with.

[Ownederd]

just saying that this game has the most well realized late 90s atmosphere i've seen in a game

it's like how alien: isolation has a perfectly mastered 70s sci-fi artistic style

this feels like it's late 1998 in the most well-done way possible. every little minute detail emulates that