Black Mesa Source V5 - "They're still working on Xen?" - Games

[QUOTE=Ghost101;47882800]Can you shrink the holes in the balaclava? I think what's making it look a little weird is that the eye/mouth holes are really big, if it's even possible to shrink/remove them. Some with no mouth hole would look cool as well.[/QUOTE] Yeah I think a no mouth hole version would be really nice too.

[QUOTE=MacD11;47884140]Yeah I think a no mouth hole version would be really nice too.[/QUOTE] That's a great idea for the Male black ops since some of them had no mouth holes on their masks in opposing force.

[QUOTE=bucabuca;47882856]I think the same, I really love the classic HECU. The PCV detail is something I really love, greatly increases the depth of the history of the game , like an expanded universe. The Marines made to the Black Mesa withdrew this feeling, this unique look that the Half Life and its expansions had. The same can be said for the security officers, the look of the bulletproof vests in GoldSrc version (with the expansion of the gearbox ) was single, I had never seen anything like that in real life. But the crowbar collective put a simple bulletproof vest. Of course , visually the Marines and the security guards were generally fantastic , very realistic and also , what do perfectly fits in the proposal of the mod. But... I'm a nostalgic and always dreamed of seeing recreated in a similar manner to the original material, fortunately some modders can bring that feeling. Ahh also I have a classic security guard, if you want to see.[/QUOTE] Although there's the whole Romka's model issue, I imagine mixing the Black Mesa heads and the expanded character customizer Kyle did with the PCV Marine models would actually be pretty cool, lots of variety amongst the marines. Not to harp or complain towards the BM team more than many have, and I've complained about it before, but the default Marines, while realistic, just look way too modern for the time period the game takes place in, sci-fi logic or not.

[QUOTE=RikohZX;47885119]Although there's the whole Romka's model issue, I imagine mixing the Black Mesa heads and the expanded character customizer Kyle did with the PCV Marine models would actually be pretty cool, lots of variety amongst the marines. Not to harp or complain towards the BM team more than many have, and I've complained about it before, but the default Marines, while realistic, just look way too modern for the time period the game takes place in, sci-fi logic or not.[/QUOTE] The HECU was pretty advanced in the original Half-Life as well especially the low definition models the hd models are the one's that made them look low tech. [IMG]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/half-life/images/a/a8/HECU_orig_models.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090802164204&path-prefix=en[/IMG] [IMG]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/half-life/images/3/3d/Hgrunts_PS2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100308175320&path-prefix=en[/IMG] I personally think the Black Mesa team stayed faithful to the original low definition designs. I still wouldn't mind seeing hd styled soldiers as well though.

[QUOTE=coldroll5;47885441]The HECU was pretty advanced in the original Half-Life as well especially the low definition models the hd models are the one's that made them look low tech. [IMG]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/half-life/images/a/a8/HECU_orig_models.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090802164204&path-prefix=en[/IMG] [IMG]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/half-life/images/3/3d/Hgrunts_PS2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100308175320&path-prefix=en[/IMG] I personally think the Black Mesa team stayed faithful to the original low definition designs. I still wouldn't mind seeing hd styled soldiers as well though.[/QUOTE] What are you talking about? How did the HD models look any more "low tech" than the originals? If anything they looked more advanced because they had more defined PCVs since PCVs had only became an actual thing with Opposing Force. [editline]5th June 2015[/editline] And personally I don't think the HECU models in BM stayed true to any previous incarnation. IMO they don't have anywhere near as much character either. I get that they were trying to do their own thing but in the case of the HECU grunts I really don't think going in their own more realistic direction payed off at all.

[QUOTE=coldroll5;47885441] I personally think the Black Mesa team stayed faithful to the original low definition designs. I still wouldn't mind seeing hd styled soldiers as well though.[/QUOTE] Not really, they have different uniform and equipment types. The BM HECU are like a modern day special forces unit. The HL1 guys have older equipment (which makes sense, it's an old game) and a PCV. Man I miss that PCV, still the BM design is pretty cool itself as well.

[QUOTE=coldroll5;47885441]I personally think the Black Mesa team stayed faithful to the original low definition designs. I still wouldn't mind seeing hd styled soldiers as well though.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Trainbike;47885494]And personally I don't think the HECU models in BM stayed true to any previous incarnation. IMO they don't have anywhere near as much character either. I get that they were trying to do their own thing but in the case of the HECU grunts I really don't think going in their own more realistic direction payed off at all.[/QUOTE] Remember, in the original incarnation there wasn't much detail, most of the information came from OP4. The original wasn't called Marines, or HECU, or use named PCV's. The original Soldiers in Half-Life were only referred to as "Soldiers" or "The Military", and that's all they were, men in camouflage with body armor. I remember a Dev commented that the PCV was OP4 canon, and they were sketchy about using it because it was never mentioned outside the game. Ultimately they decided to use modern body armour for their portrayal.

Well Black Mesa was originally made with the vanilla models and content in mind due to the HD pack and expansions being considered non-canon by the team, until Valve officially patched in the HD pack to the games anyway. Modders will obviously do as they please, but the BM team was pretty haphazard about what they stuck to - the original or their re-imagining, 1998/99 or 2013. And again I don't intend to shit all over their work or say it's terrible, it just confuses me with how indecisive it all seems (/ seemed in some regards).

I'm not criticizing their work or shit all over their work or say it's terrible , do not put words in my mouth , I love the visual style created for Black Mesa, I think fantastic though, as I said before, I 'm a guy and I prefer the nostalgic style that reminds most HD pack material and original style.

[QUOTE=RikohZX;47886452]Well Black Mesa was originally made with the vanilla models and content in mind due to the HD pack and expansions being considered non-canon by the team, until Valve officially patched in the HD pack to the games anyway. Modders will obviously do as they please, but the BM team was pretty haphazard about what they stuck to - the original or their re-imagining, 1998/99 or 2013. And again I don't intend to shit all over their work or say it's terrible, it just confuses me with how indecisive it all seems (/ seemed in some regards).[/QUOTE] I kind of wish the Black Mesa team would have put backpacks and water canteens on the soldiers though it seems weird without them. I think the splitter camouflage looked cooler as well but someone already made a mod for that. [IMG]http://files.gamebanana.com/img/ss/skins/50931cf148d30.jpg[/IMG]

[video=youtube;Cy109uv7bFQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy109uv7bFQ[/video] More exploits of boredom This time featuring less barrels but wayyy more blast jumps. Also some speedrun tactics. [sp2]I actually forgot to delete the last clip but GZ spent like 3 hours uploading this shit so whatever[/sp2]

[QUOTE=RikohZX;47886452] Modders will obviously do as they please, but the BM team was pretty haphazard about what they stuck to - the original or their re-imagining, 1998/99 or 2013. And again I don't intend to shit all over their work or say it's terrible, it just confuses me with how indecisive it all seems (/ seemed in some regards).[/QUOTE] Then why not go with a moderate approach? What if the equipment was an early to mid 2000's design? Isn't it confirmed by Valve that the Black Mesa Incident occurred in an unspecified time during the 2000's? (200X) Somebody get on making the grunts along those lines.

[QUOTE=bucabuca;47882650]My friend, SkyNinja converted these models a long time ago , yet for the previous version of Black Mesa . I put in the new version and make a cool reskin in part of the vest and in the radios. Unfortunately I can not distribute them because the original models belong to Romka and do not have the authorization (I have only for my personal use ) but I believe that some screenshots does not hurt. [IMG]http://forums.blackmesasource.com/index.php/Attachment/4005-1-jpg/[/IMG] [/QUOTE] Cool how did you get the chin straps to work with the face creation system I remember the security guards were going to have chin straps but the Black Mesa team decided not to put them in. Because they said it would take to much time to get it to work with the face creation system. I think it would be really cool if someone could do that with the security guards as well. I wonder if it would be possible for people to add more faces to face creation system? I'm not really sure how to do something like that but it would be a great idea for some modders to do.

I redid the textures , the model porting and editing as I said was the SkyNinja.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47886421]Remember, in the original incarnation there wasn't much detail, most of the information came from OP4. The original wasn't called Marines, or HECU, or use named PCV's. The original Soldiers in Half-Life were only referred to as "Soldiers" or "The Military"[/QUOTE] I remember that the polish manual even called them "mercenaries", so

Reminder that valve canon is shaky at best. The general idea is that someone, somewhere in power was afraid Black Mesa's secret would become public knowledge, and ordered the entire facility expunged. The specific branch and nature of the military that did it is pretty irrelevant. I do seem to remember Sierra's GOTY manual referring to them as the US ARMY HECU Detachment though.

[QUOTE=Sonador;47893749]Reminder that valve canon is shaky at best. The general idea is that someone, somewhere in power was afraid Black Mesa's secret would become public knowledge, and ordered the entire facility expunged. The specific branch and nature of the military that did it is pretty irrelevant. I do seem to remember Sierra's GOTY manual referring to them as the US ARMY HECU Detachment though.[/QUOTE] And then the Black Ops were sent in to kill the scientists, the aliens and even the military who themselves were ordered to kill everyone

[QUOTE=Adarrek;47893774]And then the Black Ops were sent in to kill the scientists, the aliens and even the military who themselves were ordered to kill everyone[/QUOTE] I wonder if they hadn't nuked the place they'd then send in a third unit to clean up the black-ops too :v: [editline]6th June 2015[/editline] It's cover-ups all the way down.

Yeah, just remember that Blops were conjured by Gearbox to provide a military combat element to Opfor where it would have otherwise not made sense In valve's hl1, I seem to remember fassassins and hgrunts were on the same team and wouldn't fight each other?

[QUOTE=Sonador;47893865]Yeah, just remember that Blops were conjured by Gearbox to provide a military combat element to Opfor where it would have otherwise not made sense In valve's hl1, I seem to remember fassassins and hgrunts were on the same team and wouldn't fight each other?[/QUOTE] Mechanically they were on the same team I think, however there's no sequences in which they actually encounter each other so there wasn't anything concrete (in the game at least) saying they were definitely working together, which allowed Gearbox to do that.

I have an interpretation for that, to be clear, I'm not saying it's an absolute fact, but that is my interpretation of the incident. You may disagree with the will. 1. Black Mesa Incident. 2. Hostile Aliens are teleported to Earth, no one is aware of the existence of other worlds, this could cause global hysteria and loss of political and economic control thanks to worldwide panic. 3. The Government of the United States decides to stifle the case, making a complete "file burning" 4. Send army, navy or air force would be very public, the news would "leaking" causing hysteria feared. Then the government decides to send its elite force, especially for such cases, the HECU, the service would be done in a discreet manner and no one would know. 5. The situation gets out of control, the battle begins to be won by aliens (Xen and Race X) HECUS are killed, a war panic is generated, it is possible that the information leak. The high command of the HECU have information about the Aliens and know it's a lost battle (note G-man talking with military in Opposing Force early in the game, in the training course). 6. With HECU losing badly for aliens, the government decides to send Black Ops, accustomed to all sorts of dirty work would not have the military fellowship with the fallen comrades as well as the HECU, probably not reveal anything as shocking as it was, as well as the existence of extraterrestrial life, for them, it was just another "job", The blackops would do the mission and simply that. Paid to eliminate the HECU, scientists, some aliens and blow up every Black Mesa for muffling the case.

[QUOTE=Trainbike;47893970]Mechanically they were on the same team I think, however there's no sequences in which they actually encounter each other so there wasn't anything concrete (in the game at least) saying they were definitely working together, which allowed Gearbox to do that.[/QUOTE] There was that one part in the game where you fight Black Ops in the warehouse, and then you rush into a room where you get apprehended by Marines. That kinda implies working together, because if the Black Ops were against the Marines, the sneak marines would be surrounded and probably dead.

[QUOTE=BattleMedic;47894063]There was that one part in the game where you fight Black Ops in the warehouse, and then you rush into a room where you get apprehended by Marines. That kinda implies working together, because if the Black Ops were against the Marines, the sneak marines would be surrounded and probably dead.[/QUOTE] Or they were hiding from Black Ops . And they just had the luck to Freeman appear and eliminate Black Ops for then and appear like a fool to be hit on the head.

My headcannon is that they sent in marines to kill all the personnel to avoid possible epidemies caused by contamination with inter-dementional microbes, but then they realized they didn't had enough gas masks for every soldier so they sent in the black ops to kill them too notice how all the black ops have their mouths covered

[QUOTE=adamsz;47888171]What if the equipment was an early to mid 2000's design?[/QUOTE] Iirc HECU's vest is based off a mid-2000's design. [editline]6th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Sonador;47893865]Yeah, just remember that Blops were conjured by Gearbox to provide a military combat element to Opfor where it would have otherwise not made sense In valve's hl1, I seem to remember fassassins and hgrunts were on the same team and wouldn't fight each other?[/QUOTE] In HL1, Assassins are Soldiers were never present in the same location, although their AI was set to be friendly to each other.

One could also say the Black Ops were still working alongside the HECU at that point since apparently the Combine Overwiki says Friendly Fire starts around the Lambda Core chapter in terms of timing - by then Gordon's handled the last batch of Black Ops he encounters in the entire game and focuses entirely on Xen aliens before heading for Xen itself. In a way, we conveniently poof away just as the military decided to kill everything altogether.

The way I look at it, the HECU are probably part of MARSOC (Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command) and the Black Ops are under the CIA-SAD (Special Activities Division, real-life Black Ops). The HECU is a sizeable force stationed near Black Mesa, and some units may be stationed at Black Mesa. With their CBRN Defense and Unconventional Tactics specialisations, they're perfect for responding to any incident Black Mesa may create, anything from chemical spills to escaped test subjects. Despite that, Alien Invasion likely wasn't on their plate and it's possible Black Mesa never even told them about Xen beforehand. When the Black Mesa incident happened, they went in to clean up although instead of evacuating people, they are seen to eliminating them. There are several reasons for why this could have happened, but that's another story. Meanwhile, the CIA sends in SAD to retrieve invaluable documents and technologies and bring them to safety, which explains the Black Ops presence as early as [I]Apprehension[/I]. However as the tide turns against the HECU, their role expands. After the HECU evacuate, they are ordered to end the Alien Assault once-and-for-all, and are tasked with planting and detonating a Nuclear Weapon within Black Mesa. Knowing that any surviving HECU are no longer under control, and could potentially escape with top-secret information or attempt to hinder the SAD's mission, the Black Ops decide to eliminate any they Marines come across.

Where is the HECU and Black Ops unit now, though? Half-Life 1 was the first and last game we saw them, is it possible they were too far away from the Eastern part of Europe to get much involvement in the Combine's overtaking of Earth in HL2? It'd be surprising to imagine that the HECU joined up with them (possibly from surrender) because… generally both want Gordon dead, their reasons being different: the former think the scientist was responsible for causing the Resonance Cascade even though the G-Man was the criminal who wanted the machinery's power raised to 105%, while the Combine want Gordon gone for being a miscount likely intended for delivery to Nova Prospekt. Too bad the former HECU soldiers, or at least their successors if any, become brainwashed into pawns.

[QUOTE=BenjaminTennison;47895366]Where is the HECU and Black Ops unit now, though? Half-Life 1 was the first and last game we saw them, is it possible they were too far away from the Eastern part of Europe to get much involvement in the Combine's overtaking of Earth in HL2? It'd be surprising to imagine that the HECU joined up with them (possibly from surrender) because… generally both want Gordon dead, their reasons being different: the former think the scientist was responsible for causing the Resonance Cascade even though the G-Man was the criminal who wanted the machinery's power raised to 105%, while the Combine want Gordon gone for being a miscount likely intended for delivery to Nova Prospekt. Too bad the former HECU soldiers, or at least their successors if any, become brainwashed into pawns.[/QUOTE] you could argue that the military in general were the first combine human hybrids, the elite soldiers after 20 years though, the military won't exist at all

[QUOTE=BenjaminTennison;47895366]Where is the HECU and Black Ops unit now, though?[/QUOTE] They were annihilated along with every other military force during the Seven Hour War, where else? Hell, it's even more likely that the HECU were disbanded after being pulled out of Black Mesa since the mission was pretty much deemed a complete failure by that point. [QUOTE=BenjaminTennison;47895366]It'd be surprising to imagine that the HECU joined up with them (possibly from surrender) because… generally both want Gordon dead, their reasons being different: the former think the scientist was responsible for causing the Resonance Cascade even though the G-Man was the criminal who wanted the machinery's power raised to 105%, while the Combine want Gordon gone for being a miscount likely intended for delivery to Nova Prospekt. Too bad the former HECU soldiers, or at least their successors if any, become brainwashed into pawns.[/QUOTE] The HECU wouldn't give two shits about Gordon after the Black Mesa Incident since by that point, he would've been considered deceased along with the rest of the personnel at Black Mesa. They also probably long forgot about him due to the time spent between HL1 and 2, especially with other national emergencies going on in mind (i.e: massive amounts of Xen fauna being teleported into Earth, practically making the ecosystem roll in it's grave). Finally: why the flying fuck would the HECU, or any Earth occupied military force for that matter, willingly want to be merged into the Combine, the same race of beings that wants to enslave humanity and have shown to have enslaved many other alien species in the past? Just to get one guy who is probably already dead by now and/or has possibly been dead for 20 years either from Xen forces, a nuclear warhead detonating, or alone in the desert outskirts due to lack of essential resources? If that's the case, then we're more dumb than we thought we were.