Black Mesa Source V5 - "They're still working on Xen?" - Games

I did the same thing. Gordon can throw things almost as fast as the gravity gun! [video=youtube;xfZ2R_ySnZI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfZ2R_ySnZI[/video]

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;49184937]Actually I don't know what the issue is here exactly. The models have always been great but the textures tend to look wonky and I'm not sure if it's Source, or the guy doesn't take different materials into account for his textures and Source does a shit job of handling it, or if it's just his using of really bright and deep shades of color which can look strange. I'm not talking about any one specific thing here either cause it's a thing across a ton of props and lab equipment models, computer consoles and screens, etc. and a lot of props and models do look kind of strange in the game. I'm not a developer or artist myself either so I can't really guess at it.[/QUOTE] Source's material properties are basically stuck in 1998. You are very limited in what you can do. Normals, specular, phong...and that's about it I think. You can only have 1 material type per model, which is appalling. It is actually quite depressing because our artists' renders of the models they make are so so unbelievably superior to how they look in game, it's quite upsetting. Even our better models like the Shotgun or Xbow would look a lot better on a different engine. Source just makes everything feel quite flat and lifeless because it doesn't support any proper modern modelling techniques. It's just the nature of the beast. Our modellers and texturers are extremely talented, I envy them. [QUOTE=Kaleidescoop;49187827]I think this is for when they're throwing the grenade? Dunno, I have no idea how this stuff works.[/QUOTE] They would avoid their own grenades that were in their hand while they were throwing them. As you can imagine, this would make their AI extremely screwy. [QUOTE=Chrille;49191427]I don't know, it feels like it's lacking something. Mostly I just miss the dirt-and-grey colour schemes of the original map and the muted lighting.[/QUOTE] It feels lacking, because it isn't finished yet! We're still hard at work getting that map up to snuff. You've seen the other BMDM maps, we're going to try and shoot for that quality bar, or above. Our DM maps look pretty incredible for Source, even though I do say so myself.

[QUOTE=TextFAMGUY1;49196604]It feels lacking, because it isn't finished yet! We're still hard at work getting that map up to snuff. You've seen the other BMDM maps, we're going to try and shoot for that quality bar, or above. Our DM maps look pretty incredible for Source, even though I do say so myself.[/QUOTE] Right, I'm not talking about the fact that it lacks polish. All the BMDM maps are very pretty. But I'm assuming that you're somewhat settled on the visual direction of the map as the screenshot above looks similar to the map preview from September, if a little more detailed.

[QUOTE=Chrille;49197376]Right, I'm not talking about the fact that it lacks polish. All the BMDM maps are very pretty. But I'm assuming that you're somewhat settled on the visual direction of the map as the screenshot above looks similar to the map preview from September, if a little more detailed.[/QUOTE] For most of the map, yes. Outdoors isn't quite solidified yet. You'd be amazed at how quickly stuff like this can change, particularly if we discover a better direction. It's been tough with a map as iconic and popular as Crossfire.

We need Source2 more than ever, I just hope the port from older Source Engine versions won't be too hard. Dota2 alpha map editor which presumably used Source2 was in a certain way "very" compatible with the rest of the game w<hich runs on SE1, while TF2 team stated that TF2 would not be ported because it would be too hard because the code source was messy. I really hope that a beautiful game like Black Mesa should get a Source Engine 2 port whenever possible and without too many problems (= Source2 out and the SE1 version of BM totally finished) Amazing game btw.

[QUOTE=Plaffy46;49198389]We need Source2 more than ever[/QUOTE] They said that they won't port it to Source 2. Though, that got me remembering... [video=youtube;luTuHU6-Pu8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luTuHU6-Pu8[/video] This was originally made for HL2: Enhancement Mod, before they decided to wait for Source 2, putting it on hiatus. Just imagine the QE lobby with this. But we have to see what Ken Chan has to say about it.

[URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=500724252&searchtext="]Is this even a bug?[/URL] I really like the "before" picture, but is actually a lighting issue? I thought the room was supposed to be yellow and ominous, removing it totally makes the scene feel flatter and more boring.

[QUOTE=austin0331;49205449][URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=500724252&searchtext="]Is this even a bug?[/URL] I really like the "before" picture, but is actually a lighting issue? I thought the room was supposed to be yellow and ominous, removing it totally makes the scene feel flatter and more boring.[/QUOTE] That lighting is only supposed to be on with the rocket engine blast.

(Snipped, due to redundancy)

[QUOTE=jackfu;49209305]Speaking of bugs... [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=565112350"]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=565112350[/URL] The clip is as big as the MP5 itself! FYI: I put in the link because this site handles screenshots from Steam poorly and doesn't display them properly.[/QUOTE] [t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/400055083633854988/4FC4FACB6B19CD224629A45DBE718DE32F49FCCC/[/t]

That's not a clip.

[QUOTE=Falkok15;49210571]That's not a clip.[/QUOTE] I meant the the 9mm mag!

So crypt made [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=565475370"]a neato thing[/URL] [t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/395551484007016190/FDD3B766A5908FA7D8323F6BC6319F23E11010A5/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|637:358&composite-to=*,*|637:358&background-color=black[/t]

[QUOTE=TextFAMGUY1;49196604]Source's material properties are basically stuck in 1998. You are very limited in what you can do. Normals, specular, phong...and that's about it I think. You can only have 1 material type per model, which is appalling. It is actually quite depressing because our artists' renders of the models they make are so so unbelievably superior to how they look in game, it's quite upsetting. Even our better models like the Shotgun or Xbow would look a lot better on a different engine. Source just makes everything feel quite flat and lifeless because it doesn't support any proper modern modelling techniques. It's just the nature of the beast. Our modellers and texturers are extremely talented, I envy them. They would avoid their own grenades that were in their hand while they were throwing them. As you can imagine, this would make their AI extremely screwy. It feels lacking, because it isn't finished yet! We're still hard at work getting that map up to snuff. You've seen the other BMDM maps, we're going to try and shoot for that quality bar, or above. Our DM maps look pretty incredible for Source, even though I do say so myself.[/QUOTE] I've been working with source for quite a while and the engine supports up to 4k textures. I've been looking over some of the older concept renders for black mesa and I was wondering, why were the textures scaled so heavily prior to release?

[QUOTE=TextFAMGUY1;49196604]Source's material properties are basically stuck in 1998. You are very limited in what you can do. Normals, specular, phong...and that's about it I think. You can only have 1 material type per model, which is appalling. It is actually quite depressing because our artists' renders of the models they make are so so unbelievably superior to how they look in game, it's quite upsetting. Even our better models like the Shotgun or Xbow would look a lot better on a different engine. Source just makes everything feel quite flat and lifeless because it doesn't support any proper modern modelling techniques.[/QUOTE] I personally think the Source engine could really use both ambient occlusion, and some enhancements to environment map reflections. currently, there's no 'proper' way to control clarity of environment map reflections on models, unless one makes some tweaks to the relevant shaders.

[QUOTE=austin0331;49205449][URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=500724252&searchtext="]Is this even a bug?[/URL] I really like the "before" picture, but is actually a lighting issue? I thought the room was supposed to be yellow and ominous, removing it totally makes the scene feel flatter and more boring.[/QUOTE] It is indeed a bug, and it is one which has given our programmers a huge headache for a long time - they're still working on it for CU2, in fact! There are a whole bunch of lighting issues and workarounds which are deeply interrelated within the engine code. Long story short - this bug is why we had to disable the dynamic lights from muzzle flashes/explosions. It's really complicated and confusing. Still trying to iron it out. The bug is that the yellow light is meant to be from the rocket firing. Even though it's set to be initially dark in Hammer, it stays on regardless, thanks to a bugged interaction with info_dlightmap_manager. [QUOTE=RaTcHeT302;49209319][t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/400055083633854988/4FC4FACB6B19CD224629A45DBE718DE32F49FCCC/[/t][/QUOTE] I believe when the MP5 was remade, we used the proper magazine size for the MP5 ammo pickup, and nobody could ever find the damn things. So we scaled them up. [QUOTE=calinator666;49213181]I've been working with source for quite a while and the engine supports up to 4k textures. I've been looking over some of the older concept renders for black mesa and I was wondering, why were the textures scaled so heavily prior to release?[/QUOTE] 4k textures murder the engine. Yes it supports them but it is insanely taxing and the engine does not support it well. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. From what I know (and my knowledge is limited due to being a level designer and not a texture artist/programmer), even using 4 x 2048 textures is significantly preferable on Source to using a single 4096. Why this might be, I couldn't possibly tell you, but that's what I've heard from modellers and artists on many occasions. I think our game mostly uses very appropriate texture sizes. Sure there are plenty of worse looking assets and textures throughout the game but our entire library is 10 years old. The older stuff just...looks a lot worse because it was made for older times and standards and by artists who were less experienced than they are now. It's nothing to do with us intentionally scaling things. If you look at all the new stuff the team is producing and putting out, it is pretty top notch in my opinion - we've improved a lot over the years. We've tried very hard to avoid the typical mod trappings of "every single soda can and piece of junk should have a 2048 textures", mostly because it isn't necessary. Our artists are quite mindful of stuff like this.

I have a simple request for singleplayer : make achievements obtainable while OFFLINE. Every other Source game (well, mostly every other singleplayer game) have their achievements unlockable offline. So, why not black mesa? Please!

Have you considered more elaborate multiplayer modes other than deathmatch? Perhaps wave based survival or an asymmetric humans vs aliens mode?

I'd love to see a xen aliens vs humans mode or at the very least a gamemode like halo's infection mode. The zombie viewmodels are already there. That and a CTF mode

A special survival arcade gamemode where you have to fight off endless hordes of crowbar wielding Gordon clones.

[QUOTE=Old Hermit;49213165]So crypt made [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=565475370"]a neato thing[/URL] [t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/395551484007016190/FDD3B766A5908FA7D8323F6BC6319F23E11010A5/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|637:358&composite-to=*,*|637:358&background-color=black[/t][/QUOTE] I really like these, except the arm shape is like a really uniform cylinder so it looks really odd and unnatural from certain angles/if the weapon shows too much arm.

[QUOTE=Bloodshot12;49248844]I'd love to see a xen aliens vs humans mode or at the very least a gamemode like halo's infection mode. The zombie viewmodels are already there. That and a CTF mode[/QUOTE] I was thinking more along the lines of the versus mode from L4D.

Would anyone else like to see an Opposing Force styled CTF gamemode? I'd love that winter map with the penguin snarks [img]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/half-life/images/d/d6/Penguin_world.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100322173535&path-prefix=en[/img][img]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/half-life/images/8/85/Penguin_view.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100322173535&path-prefix=en[/img]

[QUOTE=Bloodshot12;49250225]I really like these, except the arm shape is like a really uniform cylinder[/QUOTE] 'Cause it pretty much is :P I'm still a beginner with modeling, I'd probably pull my hair out adding too much additional complexity to it. Once Hazard Course isn't eating my time, I'm going to add the handpack from the original Half-Life model and I'll probably look into fixing up the overall shape so it's a bit more natural as well. My fault for not being as critical of my work as I usually am, let a bit of wonky shape go unnoticed. I'm glad to hear you mostly like it so far, though!

It's quite good otherwise, tbh even just scaling up the cylinder at where the elbow would be would make it more natural looking, maybe adding one or two extra scaled up edge loops as well.

[QUOTE=Old Hermit;49213165]So crypt made [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=565475370"]a neato thing[/URL] [t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/395551484007016190/FDD3B766A5908FA7D8323F6BC6319F23E11010A5/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|637:358&composite-to=*,*|637:358&background-color=black[/t][/QUOTE] The models and textures look really good but the shifted UV textures on the hands make these look really broken. Also the hivehand and gauss don't have the hands. If he fixes these problems in the second release I'll definitely use them.

I'm gonna try and get a quick patch for that and some other issues out sometime this week.

[QUOTE=Crypt19;49261616]I'm gonna try and get a quick patch for that and some other issues out sometime this week.[/QUOTE] Thank you. I appreciate that you don't have to do this. My advice though, shouldn't the update wait until the new weapon skins have been released?

[QUOTE=Old Hermit;49213165] [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=565475370"][/URL] [t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/395551484007016190/FDD3B766A5908FA7D8323F6BC6319F23E11010A5/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|637:358&composite-to=*,*|637:358&background-color=black[/t][/QUOTE] Speaking of arms. [t]http://imgur.com/fh7z2On.jpg[/t] [t]http://imgur.com/7TiqN3Z.jpg[/t] [t]http://imgur.com/oWwfFrN.jpg[/t] Did this in my free time, it's a shame the chrome style envmaps in source aren't better, these could actually look nice and not like weird blobs with arms and knuckles. I didn't feel like decompiling and compiling every single weapon in the game so all I've got are these until I decide to not be lazy and actually paste them onto all the guns.

So you added the HL1 models to Black Mesa?