Black Mesa Source V5 - "They're still working on Xen?" - Games

[QUOTE=En-Guage;46861810]cant argue with that but I still prefer it this way[/QUOTE] I'm fine with the models, they're nice and fit in with the rest of the game (Although Juniez's models would be a welcome addition), the animations are ass and the gunplay is ass. The only weapon animations I'm content with are the .357's, and those could still use some polishing.

[QUOTE=EksCelle;46861697] I absolutely despise the burst fire on the SMG, it's one of the main reasons why I can never enjoy playing it. What was wrong with the way the SMG worked in HL1/2? Also with the Glock, whatever happened to the rapid-fire with rightclick? I once remember reading on the Black Mesa forums that one of the older devs said that he/she wished that the glock still had the rapid fire, but never did anything about it. (Keep in mind, this was years ago before it was even released).[/QUOTE] Both weapons now use their HL1 behaviours. MP5 fires single shots, Glock has rapid fire with right click. All weapons now use a system of recoil a la HL1, with low spread but a controllable recoil pattern. Most of the weapons have been reanimated, a few have been remodelled and improved. The HGrunt AI has been redone, and their balance and damage values have been redone. Our Marine VO has been rerecorded with a new, and brilliant actor. Some of our weapon particles have been redone. We are, and have been listening. The commercial release will be a large step above the mod release. This is but a small snippet of what we've been working on, too.

[QUOTE=Butthurter;46861831] [t]http://atthebuzzerpodcast.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/hev-suit.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Ew, those shoulders. [editline]5th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=TextFAMGUY1;46861850] We are, and have been listening. The commercial release will be a large step above the mod release.[/QUOTE] Thank you. So much.

honestly as a massive hl1 fan I think you guys are nitpicking 90% of my posts are troll, but I am deadly serious right now bm when it was released last year was 100% spot on imo [editline]6th January 2015[/editline] why would you want it to be all the same anyway? Boring as fuck

[QUOTE=TextFAMGUY1;46861850]Both weapons now use their HL1 behaviours. MP5 fires single shots, Glock has rapid fire with right click. All weapons now use a system of recoil a la HL1, with low spread but a controllable recoil pattern. Most of the weapons have been reanimated, a few have been remodelled and improved. The HGrunt AI has been redone, and their balance and damage values have been redone. Our Marine VO has been rerecorded with a new, and brilliant actor. Some of our weapon particles have been redone. We are, and have been listening. The commercial release will be a large step above the mod release. This is but a small snippet of what we've been working on, too.[/QUOTE] Replaying Black Mesa will be a much more enjoyable experience with these changes, can't wait for the release so I can buy it. Has the grenade throwing been re-worked as well by any chance? I remember it being a pain to throw between gaps because the grenades are thrown much higher than what you aim at

If the above post is true I am literally jizzing stil change is nice

Awww, I liked the current grunt VO. "Ow. That hurt a lot. I am in pain. Ow." "I'M SO GLAD THE MEDIC DECIDED TO TAKE A FUCKING VACATION!" "MY LEG!"

[QUOTE=Galen;46862310]Awww, I liked the current grunt VO. "Ow. That hurt a lot. I am in pain. Ow." "I'M SO GLAD THE MEDIC DECIDED TO TAKE A FUCKING VACATION!" "MY LEG!"[/QUOTE] Funny lines and vo are two different things

i've played half-life for many many many years of my life. here's my thoughts: 1. i think the guns juniez made for black mesa should be default, they do justice to the originals. 2. the hev suit looks horrible, where's the chrome? why does it look so chubby in comparison to the hl1 one too? eugh. 3. the alien grunts look like enemies out of some shitty generic game like resistance or gears of war instead of creatures from xen. seriously wtf is up with the ww2 helmet. compare this: [t]http://wiki.blackmesasource.com/images/3/33/AGrunt_Armr.jpg[/t] to this: [t]http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090913200003/half-life/en/images/a/a1/Alien_Grunt.jpg[/t] the way the armor is set up in the black mesa is eugh. it looks like the work of humans, not aliens. what's with the dumb hexagonal patterns on the grunts skirt too? also the BMS alien grunt has a different color palette than the gun he uses. in HL1 the grunt looks perfectly fine with his hivegun because both the grunt and the gun share a sober, darker palette. but in bms, the hivegun looks out of place. if you've played the game you know this but here's an example of what i mean (best screenshot i could find): [t]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OkrMxWUXNWY/maxresdefault.jpg[/t] 4. they fucked up the snarks: [t]http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/263/2/4/snark_park__prototype____black_mesa_by_doctornuriel-d5fcm37.jpg[/t] [t]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb57089/half-life/en/images/4/42/Snark_v_hd.jpg[/t] the textures for the bms snark are gross and the model is sub-par. [editline]5th January 2015[/editline] also like somebody said the unrealistic realism of half-life is what makes it half-life. not the real-life realism. i'll quote some dude in this thread: why keep reinventing the wheel?

[QUOTE=MenteR;46862398] 3. the alien slaves use combine necklaces instead of green-chrome-y ones (which they should change). [/QUOTE] The Combine gear on the Vortigaunts is the exact same as the HL1 gear except with an added crotch piece. Look at the hooks on the back of the collars, they're meant to be the same. [t]http://combineoverwiki.net/images/e/e1/C3a2a0001.jpg[/t][t]http://combineoverwiki.net/images/5/5f/Alien_Slave.jpg[/t] [t]http://combineoverwiki.net/images/3/30/Sweeping_Vort.jpg[/t]

i just noticed they did make the green things more metallic so i editted that off my post. [editline]5th January 2015[/editline] apparently they use a slight iridescent material for the necklace/bracers which is cool, didn't remember that when i played the game, so kudos: [t]http://atthebuzzerpodcast.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/bm_mr_03.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=Butthurter;46861831]but my fav original release hev suit had this wonderfully realistic, logical, and characteristic bloated chest portion! how can anyone say its ugly and boring -_- [t]http://atthebuzzerpodcast.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/hev-suit.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] I agree about the chest but I love everything else, imo they just needed to fix the chest. I still prefer this over the new one, which is basically the hl2 hev suit.

[QUOTE] 3. the alien grunts look like enemies out of some shitty generic game like resistance or gears of war instead of creatures from xen. seriously wtf is up with the ww2 helmet. compare this:[/QUOTE] The BM Alien Grunts look amazing, given what they had to work with. The Alien Grunts from Half-Life are one of worst enemy models in the game. They're horribly proportioned, have a terrible run cycle, and barely animate when they shoot/melee. The only thing that should be changed about the BM Alien Grunt is that his Hivegun stands out far too much and could use darker colors.

[QUOTE=MenteR;46862398] also the BMS alien grunt has a different color palette than the gun he uses. in HL1 the grunt looks perfectly fine with his hivegun because both the grunt and the gun share a sober, darker palette. but in bms, the hivegun looks out of place. if you've played the game you know this but here's an example of what i mean (best screenshot i could find):[/QUOTE] I agree with this, but the rest, tbh, alien grunts were the enemy in HL1 that i never really liked design or gameplay wise. A small thing that impressed me about bm was when I went up close to one agrunt idling and saw the facial animation on it. It has a surprising amount of personality.

[QUOTE=Garfuncle;46862535]The BM Alien Grunts look amazing, given what they had to work with. The Alien Grunts from Half-Life are one of worst enemy models in the game. They're horribly proportioned, have a terrible run cycle, and barely animate when they shoot/melee. The only thing that should be changed about the BM Alien Grunt is that his Hivegun stands out far too much and could use darker colors.[/QUOTE] They're aliens. To them, you're horribly proportioned. I do wish the agrunts in BM looked more like they did in HL, but as it stands, it's still a gorgeous model. I wish they were more bulk and less scrawny though. Also, the scene in Questionable Ethics uneases me, because I thought their armor was like an exoskeleton extruded from their skin? Either that, or the Black Mesa scientists must really be assholes to peel off what is basically fingernails to the agrunts.

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;46862778] Agrunt's mouth parts moved in both games fyi. Speaking of I only just noticed the mouth on the BM grunt was switched for an almost human one too. [/QUOTE] That always annoyed me, they look like they have normal jaws with mandibles, instead of the actual alien mouth from HL. And the fact that their armor looks like it's from Wolfenstein: The New Order. Sometimes it's nice to stick to the source material instead of trying to make it new. Atleast the skin texture is well done. [editline]5th January 2015[/editline] I think they should look more like they do in this concept art [t]http://combineoverwiki.net/images/2/26/Alien_grunt_concept_black.jpg[/t] With the chicken legs of course. I just think the mouth, torso, and shoulders look much cooler than what we got.

[QUOTE=MenteR;46862398]i' 3. the alien grunts look like enemies out of some shitty generic game like resistance or gears of war instead of creatures from xen. seriously wtf is up with the ww2 helmet. compare this: [t]http://wiki.blackmesasource.com/images/3/33/AGrunt_Armr.jpg[/t] to this: [t]http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090913200003/half-life/en/images/a/a1/Alien_Grunt.jpg[/t] [/QUOTE] I thought Grunts were created as a weapon rather than a species that already existed, so the armour would be an actual part of them rather than something that's put onto them. It should look more organic and not like a suit of armour they're wearing. One of the things i don't really like about the game is that there are some things that got changed or interpreted in a way that seems to sort of miss the point of the original - like the Grunt, bullsquid eyes, removal of some of On a Rail, High-tech looking equipment everywhere and all the HEV suit changes. Not everything needed to be 'improved' in that way, just making things higher quality would have been fine.

[t]http://wiki.blackmesasource.com/images/d/d0/AGrunt_cls3.jpg[/t] Why do they have a tongue? They shouldn't have tongues. That's disturbing. Nevermind the Nazi helmet. They shouldn't have tongues. They're smiling too. -shudders-

-snip, i'm dumb- [editline]5th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=LoLWaT?;46863222]And that's a theory a lot of people go with since it's implied in Xen during that factory segment. Only in one small area though. Mass produced weapons excluding the worm looking thing that shoots hornets.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the Hivehand was mass produced somewhere else. Just not in the same place as the agrunts.

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;46863243]Okay actually the hivehand isn't ever explained. Ever. So no one could really say what it is.[/QUOTE] You're right. Not the first time I've made a wrong assumption. On another hand, do you think the "chrome" effect of the original agrunt armor and Vortiguant shackles could be done in Source with cubemaps? Something better than the dull grey they have now. I keep comparing the agrunt armor to the soldiers in Wolfenstein:THO and even they had a shine on their armor.

[QUOTE]Yeah what. How could they be "horribly proportioned" as an alien?[/QUOTE] Having legs that are twice as short than the upper-half of their body. The original doesn't look like it can even support its own weight, let alone be capable of locomotion as a bipedal organism. It's also just not as solid character design compared to the rest of the aliens. The armor given to them is also vastly superior than just reflective domes and smooth reflective metal the originals have. Giving it a rough metal texture, segmented pieces, studs and fabric give off a more uniquely savage feel to the Alien Grunt. While the Vortigaunt has a metal collar and manacles, identifying them as subservient creatures, the Grunt looks like it is armored in heavy pieces of armor, including a helmet. And you can draw whatever analogies you'd like, but the German Stalhelm was a well designed helmet. So good in fact that modern military forces have modeled their helmets after it. So a humanoid alien with a cranium having a helmet designed as such is not that far of a stretch. [QUOTE]And terrible run cycle? Barely animate? You're talking about the game on Goldsrc right?[/QUOTE] Compared to the run cycles of Vortigaunts, Zombies, and HECUs in Half-Life? Yes, the original Alien Grunt's cycle was plain bad. It's stiff, overly simplistic, and doesn't match the pace for the actual NPCs movement speed, making the Alien Grunt look like its skiing across the ground.

[QUOTE=Garfuncle;46863380]Having legs that are twice as short than the upper-half of their body. The original doesn't look like it can even support its own weight, let alone be capable of locomotion as a bipedal organism. It's also just not as solid character design compared to the rest of the aliens. The armor given to them is also vastly superior than just reflective domes and smooth reflective metal the originals have. Giving it a rough metal texture, segmented pieces, studs and fabric give off a more uniquely savage feel to the Alien Grunt. While the Vortigaunt has a metal collar and manacles, identifying them as subservient creatures, the Grunt looks like it is armored in heavy pieces of armor, including a helmet. And you can draw whatever analogies you'd like, but the German Stalhelm was a well designed helmet. So good in fact that modern military forces have modeled their helmets after it. So a humanoid alien with a cranium having a helmet designed as such is not that far of a stretch. Compared to the run cycles of Vortigaunts, Zombies, and HECUs in Half-Life? Yes, the original Alien Grunt's cycle was plain bad. It's stiff, overly simplistic, and doesn't match the pace for the actual NPCs movement speed, making the Alien Grunt look like its skiing across the ground.[/QUOTE] On the topic of proportions, it's a video game. No one really cares. As long as they still look like big, burly badass aliens, they're okay in my book. On the topic of armor, it's been explained that their armor is actually an exoskeleton, so make it look like such. It would make much more sense being reflective domes than metal sheets with fabric. Why the hell would they have German-styled helmets anyways? I'm pretty sure that noone on Xen even knew what Earth was before Black Mesa (with the possible exception of the Nihilanth), let alone Germany. On the topic of run cycles, yes their running did suck, but that's because they were going to run at a different speed in earlier versions of Half-Life, but was changed later, and the animation wasn't changed to match. If you look at their slower walking animation, it's just fine. Earlier you said that they barely animate when they shoot, keep in mind that they're shooting BEES. Hornets. Thornets. Not bullets. The bees have their own propulsion system (wings I would assume) and as thus don't need to be propelled out of the hivehand at an extreme speed, like bullets. So there would really be no recoil. You'll remember that when Gordon had the hivehand, the only "recoil" was the creature moving in retaliation of shooting. This is even shown in Black Mesa. If you want to be realistic about things, just remember you're talking about a game that's 16 years old, and an HD remake that is 9. (Correct me on that if I'm wrong but I thought Black Mesa was in development for 7 years)

[QUOTE=Garfuncle;46863380]Having legs that are twice as short than the upper-half of their body. The original doesn't look like it can even support its own weight, let alone be capable of locomotion as a bipedal organism. It's also just not as solid character design compared to the rest of the aliens. The armor given to them is also vastly superior than just reflective domes and smooth reflective metal the originals have. Giving it a rough metal texture, segmented pieces, studs and fabric give off a more uniquely savage feel to the Alien Grunt. While the Vortigaunt has a metal collar and manacles, identifying them as subservient creatures, the Grunt looks like it is armored in heavy pieces of armor, including a helmet. And you can draw whatever analogies you'd like, but the German Stalhelm was a well designed helmet. So good in fact that modern military forces have modeled their helmets after it. So a humanoid alien with a cranium having a helmet designed as such is not that far of a stretch. Compared to the run cycles of Vortigaunts, Zombies, and HECUs in Half-Life? Yes, the original Alien Grunt's cycle was plain bad. It's stiff, overly simplistic, and doesn't match the pace for the actual NPCs movement speed, making the Alien Grunt look like its skiing across the ground.[/QUOTE] You're making it seem like the original in-game model isn't quite how Valve wanted them to be, even though it matches the concept art. It isn't in proportion and they look like that because that's how Valve intended it to be, based on the Concept art for them. Changing the design so much to 'improve' it and make it more realistic makes it seem like they kinda think they know better than Valve, in a way. The Black Mesa version needlessly changed them in an attempt to make a better version and missed the point of the original appearance. Having it be a suit of metal armour sort of takes away from them, if the Grunt armour was actually a part of them and not just something they were wearing, that would fit in more with them being a heavily armoured creature specifically meant for fighting. They have organic weapons, it makes more sense if the armour is the same. The smooth, shiny armour also fits in with the insect-like appearance.

This may be unrelated to the whole AGrunt conversation, but this has always bugged me. In Half-Life, I always thought that the hivehand wrapped around your arm, and there was like an appendage inside you squeezed to make it fire. This is why it was so elongated, so that it could accommodate for the agrunts' massive Schwarzenegger arms, and also work with thinner arms, like Vortiguants' or Gordon's. [t]http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090727164658/half-life/en/images/4/48/Hivehand_w.jpg[/t] In Black Mesa, the hivehand has an asshole. And Gordon fists it. But the issue is that it makes the hivehand feel short and stumpy, even compared to the ones that the agrunts actually use. Also, wouldn't it hurt to have that massive agrunt arm shoved up your anus? [t]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jrMkkIaplEg/maxresdefault.jpg[/t] Just something I thought I'd complain about again.

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;46863746]It kind of still does though [img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-smugdog.gif[/img][/QUOTE] ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) But that's not what I mean. I meant that it has an intentional sort of appendage that opens up when it's picked up so that you can use it without it being hurt. And if you think about it, whenever Gordon switches weapons, he has to re-fist the Hivehand every time he switches back to it. And he's not even fisting it correctly. Ouch. If these things are mass-produced like the agrunts, then my first "theory" would make much more sense. [editline]5th January 2015[/editline] I like to think it works the same way the Alien Chainsaw worked [t]http://combineoverwiki.net/images/2/28/Alien_Organic_Chainsaw.jpg[/t] It wrapped around your arm, instead of you putting your arm in it.

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;46860625]I really want [URL="http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126800&page=3"]this guy[/URL] to release that weapon remake pack to make them look more like the classic versions, mainly because those HEV arms look so much better than the vanilla black mesa ones. [IMG_thumb]http://puu.sh/cKhHo/44f7ce25cf.jpg[/IMG_thumb] [I]just look at those crisp textures![/I][/QUOTE] in black mesa source, the majority of the gameplay is you getting stuck on props. some people have claimed that if this were not the case the game;s length would have been no more than ten minutes

[QUOTE=Juniez;46864182]in black mesa source, the majority of the gameplay is you getting stuck on props. some people have claimed that if this were not the case the game;s length would have been no more than ten minutes[/QUOTE] This would be funny if it wasn't sadly true [editline]5th January 2015[/editline] I also love your work with a passion

[QUOTE=Mech Bgum;46861313]I get is pure joy from just seeing classic hl1 weapons being remade carefully. Why Black Mesa team has to reinvent the wheel, it just gets lamer...[/QUOTE] I prefer Black Mesa's rendition of the MP5 (visually, function is another argument) over HL1's. HL1's SMG was weird and the worldmodel didn't match the viewmodel anyway. The world model depicted an MP5A3 with a sawed-off Grenade Launcher, and the viewmodel was an MP5-SD (even though it wasn't suppressed) with a sawed-off Grenade Launcher. Said Grenade Launchers looked more like tubes than GL's, being short and having no trigger or reload mechanisms. Black Mesa's MP5 is modeled after a modified MP5A3 with M203 Grenade Launcher and barrel shroud. [t]http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091213231204/half-life/en/images/5/52/Mp5w.jpg[/t][t]http://wiki.blackmesasource.com/images//2/24/Worldmodel_mp5.jpg[/t] [QUOTE=TextFAMGUY1;46861850]The HGrunt AI has been redone, and their balance and damage values have been redone. Our Marine VO has been rerecorded with a new, and brilliant actor. Some of our weapon particles have been redone.[/QUOTE] Are you allowed to tell us more? Like has the Soldier placement vs Alien placement been balanced out? As you said yourself while making your extentions, most of the Alien vs Military encounters had been removed while Military encounters were increased, which gave the feel that they left because of Gordon, not the Invasion. Also please tell me that the Military are not cartoon evil anymore and the scene from Questionable Ethics has been or removed or replaced. The point of QE was that you find out Black Mesa wasn't all good, and BM ruined that by dropping the 'soldiers are evil rapists' bombshell over it. It was also just extremely cringeworthy in general. They're supposed to be US Special Forces, not the fucking Dirlewanger Brigade. [QUOTE=EksCelle;46862654]Either that, or the Black Mesa scientists must really be assholes to peel off what is basically fingernails to the agrunts.[/QUOTE] There's a reason the chapter is called "Questionable Ethics", although BM threw that out the window in their tryhard attempt to make the Marines look super-cartoon-evil. As for bullsquids, they already stated that did that because the Bullsquid is a predator. As the saying goes, "eyes on the side, animals hide, eyes on the front, animals hunt". That's because side-eyes are better for detecting large movements around you, while forward facing are good at depth perception and detail.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;46864371]I prefer Black Mesa's rendition of the MP5 (visually, function is another argument) over HL1's. HL1's SMG was weird and the worldmodel didn't match the viewmodel anyway. The world model depicted an MP5A3 with a sawed-off Grenade Launcher, and the viewmodel was an MP5-SD (even though it wasn't suppressed) with a sawed-off Grenade Launcher. Said Grenade Launchers looked more like tubes than GL's, being short and having no trigger or reload mechanisms. Black Mesa's MP5 is modeled after a modified MP5A3 with M203 Grenade Launcher and barrel shroud.[/QUOTE] While I'm not a huge gun nut, I do like BM's SMG because it looks more grounded in reality. Although I think the HL1 MP5 is more fitting for BM as, for me, the nostalgia factor easily outweighs the realism factor. [QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;46864371]Are you allowed to tell us more? Like has the Soldier placement vs Alien placement been balanced out? As you said yourself while making your extentions, most of the Alien vs Military encounters had been removed while Military encounters were increased, which gave the feel that they left because of Gordon, not the Invasion.[/QUOTE] I thought that the military did leave because of the invasion? I thought the whole point of "FORGET ABOUT FREEMAN!" was that the military is getting too hammered by the aliens to care about Gordon anymore? [QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;46864371]Also please tell me that the Military are not cartoon evil anymore and the scene from Questionable Ethics has been or removed or replaced. The point of QE was that you find out Black Mesa wasn't all good, and BM ruined that by dropping the 'soldiers are evil rapists' bombshell over it. It was also just extremely cringeworthy in general. They're supposed to be US Special Forces, not the fucking Dirlewanger Brigade.[/QUOTE] What scene are you talking about? I haven't played BM since it came out, so i'd appreciate it if you'd elaborate. Although, I do agree about the grunts. They shouldn't be cartoon evil. Their VO really doesn't help that fact, and I hope the new one is better. I always thought the marines were just doing their job the best way they could.

But they throw you into a trash compactor. thats kind of cartoony evil.