Fallout Thread V26: At least it's not a Nuclear Winter - Games

It's time: [img]http://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/1151/images/11017-4-1458265565.png[/img] [url]http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11017/?[/url] Still in alpha, but otherwise [I]damn[/I].

"The armor is located in a Red Rocket Gas Station in the middle of the Glowing Sea." Fuck that noise, console commands away.

[QUOTE=Aaron0000;49955862]It's time: [img]http://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/1151/images/11017-4-1458265565.png[/img] [url]http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11017/?[/url] Still in alpha, but otherwise [I]damn[/I].[/QUOTE] If anyone doesn't know exactly where it is, [url=http://i.imgur.com/FkfJWp5.png]here it is on the map[/url] [editline]18th March 2016[/editline] Can't really use it in first person. [t]http://i.imgur.com/t0RK7lU.jpg[/t]

[t]https://i.imgur.com/zEEC1Og.png[/t] [editline]18th March 2016[/editline] a little tiny bit of the power armour frame's foot sticks out. But its still a WIP so I can live with it.

they're hoping to have the immediate problems like the obfuscating first person fixed by the time the DLC hits

Seeing that armor makes me even more nostalgic for FO3.

[QUOTE=BusinessRed;49956483]Seeing that armor makes me even more nostalgic for FO3.[/QUOTE] It just reminds me of how insanely less cool the FO3 armor is in comparison to the FO2 armor. Excluding hellfire armor, of course.

Oh My Papa is shaping up to bee the hardest quest I need to clear since I've started playing New Vegas Since I tricked the Legion emissary in getting killed by Papa Khan, now I have to go all the way to the Legion's HQ and get the slave ledger. Problem is, I have a "good hearted thug" or something reputation with the faction and they shoot my character on sight. I'll have to fetch some Stealth Boys Also, I have to convince Melissa that the Legion won't accept women in its rank. Problem is, the girl is located atop a big hill and the paths leading to her aren't exactly easy to spot. And most of them are swarmed by Deathclaws (I'm level 19, so they two-shoot me)

-snip-

hypno-toad where is your APA !? ;)

[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;49956753]Oh My Papa is shaping up to bee the hardest quest I need to clear since I've started playing New Vegas Since I tricked the Legion emissary in getting killed by Papa Khan, now I have to go all the way to the Legion's HQ and get the slave ledger. Problem is, I have a "good hearted thug" or something reputation with the faction and they shoot my character on sight. I'll have to fetch some Stealth Boys Also, I have to convince Melissa that the Legion won't accept women in its rank. Problem is, the girl is located atop a big hill and the paths leading to her aren't exactly easy to spot. And most of them are swarmed by Deathclaws (I'm level 19, so they two-shoot me)[/QUOTE] That's why I think the reputation system is stupid honestly, you can easily shoot yourself in the foot and not realize for ten more hours, only to have a quest be near broken down the road. Disguises are really finicky as well and don't make up for the system's flaws.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49956997]That's why I think the reputation system is stupid honestly, you can easily shoot yourself in the foot and not realize for ten more hours, only to have a quest be near broken down the road. Disguises are really finicky as well and don't make up for the system's flaws.[/QUOTE] Idk I think the scary sound and whole screen dialogue box (that you have to manually dismiss) that reads [b] YO DUDE THESE GUYS ARE PISSED YOU SHOT THAT GUY [/B] is a dead give-away, not sure how you wouldn't notice. Disguises work on everyone but officer's and guard dogs, animal friend annuls the dog aspect completely. I really liked the reputation system, you actually had to be smart in how you worked against a faction if you didn't want them to go hostile immediately. It's incredibly dumb in fallout 4 how you can fail every single institute mission [sp] by outright backstabbing them and still be made the god-damn director[/sp] My first fallout 4 playthrough sucked because I pointlessly tried to play it smart and stay in the brotherhoods good books, and ended up just missing half the game's content.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49956997] Disguises[/QUOTE] Could you elaborate on this?

[QUOTE=fulgrim;49957214]Idk I think the scary sound and whole screen dialogue box (that you have to manually dismiss) that reads [b] YO DUDE THESE GUYS ARE PISSED YOU SHOT THAT GUY [/B] is a dead give-away, not sure how you wouldn't notice. Disguises work on everyone but officer's and guard dogs, animal friend annuls the dog aspect completely. I really liked the reputation system, you actually had to be smart in how you worked against a faction if you didn't want them to go hostile immediately. It's incredibly dumb in fallout 4 how you can fail every single institute mission [sp] by outright backstabbing them and still be made the god-damn director[/sp] My first fallout 4 playthrough sucked because I pointlessly tried to play it smart and stay in the brotherhoods good books, and ended up just missing half the game's content.[/QUOTE] Your reputation status should only be modifiable with actual main quest related actions or by especially aggressive stuff. Killing random assholes in the middle of the desert shouldn't make people at the headquarters on the other side of the map hate your guts. It's a decent idea in concept but being able to fuck yourself over because everyone is a telepath who not only instantly knows when someone does something against them, but also knows where it happened, who did it, how to recognize them, their name and how to find them in a fucking desert. Basically the reputation gain and loss from certain actions seems completely arbitrary or way out of proportion. From a gameplay standpoint, killing a single nameless enemy should not fuck up your relations with the faction to such a drastic extent. From an immersion standpoint, it makes no sense that they'd even be able to know. This is on top of the fact that you can't really complete any of the faction quests without losing reputation. There is no way to tie up loose ends and avoid getting yourself know. It would have worked a lot better if you could actually avoid gaining or losing reputation by not being seen or by performing certain actions, instead even if you complete a quest solely by sneaking and going undetected for the whole thing, people will still magically know it was you and will hate your guts. [editline]18th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=EliaMoroes;49957408]Could you elaborate on this?[/QUOTE] Wearing a faction outfit will temporarily reset your reputation with them to neutral, but that doesn't work on certain NPCs that will automatically recognize you (same for guard dogs).

The only thing I really hated about the reputation system was how if you killed even just a few Legion soldiers, you'd get a hit-squad that was hostile by default, and killing them would drop your reputation even more and usually be enough to vilify you.

I think they probably realized the reputation system was fucked during development since Inculta allows you to outright bypass your reputation during the Main Quest since it's otherwise piss easy to lose reputation with the legion.

I'd call the reputation system a lot of things but broken or fucked hardly. It was pretty solid system of telling the player they can't go around, popping new holes in everyone's faces all they wanted. Yes, it had some flaws and needed some tweaks but it was insane amount of times better than anything Bethesda could or did come up with. Disguises were pretty handy too, you just needed to try stay away from the everyone's sight and not expect to not get shot when you parade in front of their officers/dogs.

But why bother with an automated system that would obviously bring up issues when they could have implemented the system in a way that only gets influenced by meaningful actions ? Just look at companions. They don't use an automated system. Some very specific actions trigger very specific reactions. Meanwhile Fallout 4 uses an automated system which makes your standing with companions both really easy to grind up and infuriating to maintain because it makes trivial actions punishing when they shouldn't be (and many people on this thread alone are obviously annoyed by it since it makes some companions worthless) These are the kinds of things that should be handled solely through writing and proper quest design, not through an arbitrary generic number that magically increases when you perform even the most meaningless actions. If you want another example look at the karma system. It's fucking trash because you can exploit the living shit out of it, and it's prone to creating nonsensical issues like powder gangers giving good karma when killed.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49957643] These are the kinds of things that should be handled solely through writing and proper quest design, not through an arbitrary generic number that magically increases when you perform even the most meaningless actions. [/QUOTE] Isn't that what exactly the reputation system achieves, though? I mean, not [I]exactly[/I], but some of the most significant boosts to reputation, especially positive, come from completing certain quests, or quests in specific ways. Being unable to be idolized with the Brotherhood of Steel unless you stop nuclear apocalypse 2.0 comes to mind. I agree with the notion that it's exploitable, though. It sucks that reputation is tied to killing enemies or stealing their loot, sure, but it'd be kinda silly if it [I]didn't[/I]. Plus, I don't know if its just me, but it comes across as a bit more organic to me to have a fluid system that can go either way at a drop of the hat/genocide of a town. Like, doing a bunch of pro-ncr quests will net you a bunch of positive rep with them, but wiping out a squad of their soldiers [I]might[/I] tip you down the bad end. Only might, though. They'd be willing to move past the transgressions if you're that admired by them.

The fact you can become villified by the legion without ever completing a quest against them and by solely killing the lowest ranking soldiers you can find in the middle of the desert with no witnesses to report the crime or attribute it to you undermines the impact that larger quests may have. One of the major issues comes from the fact the reputation just ignores the concept of witnesses. Nobody needs to see what you've done, or be able to somehow attribute the action to you - they just instantly know it's you, on a global level, because everyone is a psychic mastermind. If you were somehow able to prevent loss or gain of reputation with certain actions or by completing quests in a certain way, it wouldn't be a problem because then the player could actually have some agency over their loss and gain of reputation. This used to be possible as you could stealth kill enemies and get away with no reputation loss, but this was inexplicably patched out. It's a system that could have worked much better if all the triggers to gain or lose reputation were solely based on quests or on actions that were actually overt and deliberate. Generally speaking, in a world were people die left and right all the time, it doesn't make much sense that you killing a low ranking soldier from either the ncr or the legion in the middle of the wilderness would somehow get them so riled up against you that they'd send death squads every other day of the week. They wouldn't even be able to attribute the deed to you specifically unless you'd be wearing unique outfits, which the game doesn't take in account. Even wearing full headgear that completely covers your face doesn't seem to impact people recognizing you instantly and putting the blame on you for anything you do. Fallout 4 got the concept down a bit better seeing as you can only really piss off a faction by attacking them directly at their headquarters or by going far enough into the MQ. The problem with this is that Bethesda's writing doesn't follow up enough and it creates a lot of plot holes down the line, something that would not be an issue for Obsidian. Hell, if you want a perfect example of reputation done right [I]without[/I] arbitrary numbers, look at Obsidian's Alpha Protocol. Most of the story is based around how you treat other people, how friendly or unfriendly you are to them, and how other people perceive that. You can even become [I]too friendly[/I] with someone, and get them to be overly attached to you, causing different branching paths.

I wish they would both work together on a game.

DLC related regarding some enemies and armour. [sp]There's a new roaming named faction of raiders similar to the Forged called the Rust Devils. They wear the new set of Robot Armour and occasionally have modified protectrons or mr. handys with them.[/sp]

I feel not having reputation is just as bad as having reputation that's "too arbitrary". The other day I was roaming around with paladin light-year [sp] Post blind betrayal and I came across a squad of brotherhood Star-Paladin's [/sp] So naturally it all went tit's up and this squad of my own dudes attacked me. So now as one of the highest ranking and most respected members of the brotherhood, I am forced to gun down several other high ranking members of an order im supposed to be completely invested in, and destroy 4 suits of our hallowed power armor in the process. Afterwards i sent Danse away and im just looking at the horribly mutilated corpses of my brothers like, "so what are we now?". If it's jarring that a faction get's pissed off at you for murdering (entire squads of) low ranking members of their army, Surely it's just as jarring to go out and murder several members of your own zealous, and incredibly exclusive faction and have absolutely no repercussions?. Fuck im pretty sure i could just go around shooting down our own vertibirds and the brotherhood really wont care.

The reputation system made you feel like a person in a world larger than you, the bethesda games really have a problem with the world revolving around the player imo

it's legal to post automatron stuff here, as long as i don't give a link to it, right ? here's some early impressions from yours truly don't bother clicking unless you want my dumb spoilery opinions [sp]yeah, it was pretty enjoyable stuff, but i completed it really quick i mean, i've died like 100 times because holy shit the level scaling when you get in the mechanist's lair is fucking terrifying, and the DLC's main quest was done in just about like 4 hours i guess i kind of rushed it, but yeah, it was enjoyable[/sp] oh, and i've made a dumb cute floating [URL="http://i.imgur.com/OdvxRnM.jpg"]ball[/URL]

My character has gone from a good-hearted, wingless angel for hire to a manipulative bastard of the highest degree, to the point I'm really proud of myself for certain trains of thoughts I'm having For instance, why should I convince the Khans to become allies of mine, just for them to form an indipendent empire that could EVENTUALLY threaten MY New Vegas? The safest bet would be persuading them to commit mass suicide in a desperation attack On the same note, why should I prevent the Omertas' attack on the Strip? Putting the civilian costs aside, if they do attack, I'll achieve the following: - Mr. House and the other families will waste their own resources to destroy a tracherous lot I'd really like out of the picture - After Mr. House death, the attack will make people carve a strong leadership once more. Cue my arrival on the scene My karma as I'm writing this is Paragon, just so you know

Doesn't Yes Man basically call you dumb for helping the Omertas with their plan though

[QUOTE=Hat-Wearing Man;49958388]Doesn't Yes Man basically call you dumb for helping the Omertas with their plan though[/QUOTE] It's an automaton He lacks human creative thinking

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49958380][sp]is the dlc main quest a bit more surprising and interesting than just finding the mechanist lair and being one big dungeon where you shoot your way to the end, or is it just like that?[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]well, it can pretty much be summed up to: - find a caravan and save a robot - hunt down 3 robots to get the mech dude's location, the last one getting his own dungeon and a frankly fucking good boss fight - go through his dungeon of fuck and confront his billion eyebots yeah, the story's not really the main draw, but you get access to every single parts for your bots at the end so that's pretty neat oh and there's a pretty funny twist about the mechanist if you don't know about it already[/sp]

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49958440][sp]are there multiple ways to resolve the situation with the mechanist, like to use what's left of the charisma stat to resolve the entire thing peacefully with words or barter for example or does it just come down to mashing that weapon trigger and pointing it at his face? it would be a shame because he sounds like a neat character.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]yeah, no worries, you get a speech check to reason the mechanist, and you even get an explanation this time as to why his robots just murder everything in sight, unlike a certain INSTITUTE[/sp]