Half-Life and Portal series, general discussion (v6) - Games

I believe Half Life 2 was teased with an advertisement of a crowbar and its shadow forming a 2, can't recall what publication it was or the date of it. I don't think there were any leaks or solid rumors prior to that teaser image, were there? Alas, Valve operates differently now than they did back in 2003, so who knows what conventional or unconventional methods they'll use to make a big game announcement.

[QUOTE=UndreamedBus;48506038]They Hunger is great (minus Ep.3) If has some great level design (minus Ep.3) and its very atmospheric for what it is. Although its Corny as all hell, but that's part of the charm. If you haven't already you should give them a try.[/QUOTE] What's wrong with episode 3? I thought it was a nice ending to the mod.

As I said in another thread I still don't get why people are constantly imagining conference scenarios for the HL3 reveal. Valve don't do press conferences. Gabe had a cameo at Sony's presser once. That's it. There's no precedent for it. edit: L4D2 was announced at MS presser, but no one from Valve was on stage, it was just the trailer. [QUOTE=Ouzer;48535757]I believe Half Life 2 was teased with an advertisement of a crowbar and its shadow forming a 2, can't recall what publication it was or the date of it. I don't think there were any leaks or solid rumors prior to that teaser image, were there? Alas, Valve operates differently now than they did back in 2003, so who knows what conventional or unconventional methods they'll use to make a big game announcement.[/QUOTE] That was Edge, teasing next month's coverage. [QUOTE][IMG]http://www.bubblemod.org/images/hl2/crowbar-hl2.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] However at that point the private E3 presentation already happened, was covered by sites, and footage leaked to the net, I think. And also I think PC Gamer had exclusives pics the month prior? It featured older Alyx models. Anyway, HL2 was known to be a thing before that Edge tease.

Also lets not forget how much fun it would be to have an ARG. Remember the ARGs? Back when Valve made games that were mildly profitable instead endless taps of money?

[QUOTE=Butthurter;48536787]valve has never done arg for a half-life game[/QUOTE]While pre-dating the modern conception of ARGs, Valve did employ real world "test" scenarios to promote the then-upcoming release of Half-Life 2: [url]http://combineoverwiki.net/wiki/Half-Life_2_ARG[/url]

[QUOTE=jazzpunk;48536106]As I said in another thread I still don't get why people are constantly imagining conference scenarios for the HL3 reveal. Valve don't do press conferences. Gabe had a cameo at Sony's presser once. That's it. There's no precedent for it. edit: L4D2 was announced at MS presser, but no one from Valve was on stage, it was just the trailer. That was Edge, teasing next month's coverage. However at that point the private E3 presentation already happened, was covered by sites, and footage leaked to the net, I think. And also I think PC Gamer had exclusives pics the month prior? It featured older Alyx models. Anyway, HL2 was known to be a thing before that Edge tease.[/QUOTE] Why wouldn't they do something crazy at a press conference for [B]Half Life 3[/B]

[QUOTE=Kickin Balls;48532932]What do you think will become the basic trunk of Source 2? For those confused, if the engine is a tree, games are branches of the trunk obviously. An example would be Half-Life 1 being the trunk for the GoldSrc engine, Half-Life 2 being the trunk for the Source engine. I think Valve may just bring out a flagship title to launch Source 2 with, however give out the engine with a purchase of the game, rather than having to use the game as a means to work on. For example, GMod can't work on the other branches because its based on the Half-Life branch of Source. As much as I would love to have zombie mechanics from L4D2 in Gmod, it wouldn't work. I would love to combine TF2 and L4D2.[/QUOTE] Part of me wants to think that whatever's currently made for HL3 is actually the base for Src2, which they could just be eager to show off, but since HL3 isn't ready yet, they had to show off what they currently have with another game. What better way than with what is inarguably their most popular game at the moment (Dota 2)? Not to mention, they probably saw other devs showing off their brand new engines, like Epic with UE4, and might have figured "now or never", so bam: Dota 2 Reborn.

[QUOTE=Kickin Balls;48533034]Yeah, and that's why I said that they may release the engine separately, maybe if you purchase one of the games that run on Source 2. Like Dota 2 at the moment, you now have access to Dota 2's version of Src2, but I reckon they should also release a "standard" version as a basis to use. Otherwise, as you say, they cannot compete[/QUOTE] But we already know the engine is going to be released separately. Other engine manufacturers can even take parts from it. Though I don't know why they would. I also doubt whatever Valve makes with it will make it competitive with UE4 and Unity. It's nice that it's free with the only clause being to publish on Steam, but the tools and community are in the other two's favor and Valve's history with Source 1 has not been good. [QUOTE=Marcolade;48539368]Part of me wants to think that whatever's currently made for HL3 is actually the base for Src2, which they could just be eager to show off, but since HL3 isn't ready yet, they had to show off what they currently have with another game. What better way than with what is inarguably their most popular game at the moment (Dota 2)? Not to mention, they probably saw other devs showing off their brand new engines, like Epic with UE4, and might have figured "now or never", so bam: Dota 2 Reborn.[/QUOTE] Well, we know L4D3 is most likely their next game. The first game built from scratch with the engine. They didn't port Dota over to Source 2 just to show off, but to guarantee better long term support with better tools, better optimization and to enable custom games. [QUOTE=Sand Castle;48539003]Why wouldn't they do something crazy at a press conference for [B]Half Life 3[/B][/QUOTE] Because as I said they have yet to do a press conference and Gabe only showed up once at one? They didn't even attend E3 this year, even though their HW projects and Source 2 have given them the best excuse in years to actually do so. They don't care about these stuff. They can just put up announcements on their blogs and people will read them. Like they did with Dota Reborn during E3. At most they'll do an ARG. Just look at how low-key they've been handling Source 2, their first engine in over a decade, something that people have hyped up to oblivion. Zero fanfare. They don't care about these things. (Unless it's Dota :p)

[video=youtube;VnGscfbCz1g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnGscfbCz1g[/video] The future is now.

[QUOTE=jazzpunk;48539375] I also doubt whatever Valve makes with it will make it competitive with UE4 and Unity. It's nice that it's free with the only clause being to publish on Steam, but the tools and community are in the other two's favor and Valve's history with Source 1 has not been good. [/QUOTE] I've always laughed when someone wants to make a game in Source as the only reason you ever use Source for your game is because it's all you know how to work with. Any other reason like time, energy, and portability leaves both Unity and Unreal 4 as far better options. Valve's gimmik is that the entire company fertilizes the mod community, with age-old legends of Valve hiring modders to make games and the success stories like Portal, Team Fortress and Counterstrike. But the standing problem is that Valve has disregarded the modding community for the last 4-5 years. The engine became a mess and frequent updates often broke legacy mods, tools, and some of their retail games for good. The question that arises from this is, have Valve realized their modding tools are outdated and have abandoned updating while working on Source 2, or have Valve given up a modding focus all together in favor of something like VR and Hardware?

Pretty sure Valve focus 90% of their efforts into Steam these days. It makes them way more money than source engine or their games. As long as DOTA and CS keep players on the Steam system they're golden no matter what.

[QUOTE=bencelot;48541007]Pretty sure Valve focus 90% of their efforts into Steam these days. It makes them way more money than source engine or their games. As long as DOTA and CS keep players on the Steam system they're golden no matter what.[/QUOTE] Yes, cause all those writers, programmers, sound engineers, artists, etc are working on two games where the majority of cosmetics are created by the community....

I'm sure they're hard at work trying to actually get Source 2 to be perfect and finished. I wouldn't doubt that a lot of their support and focus would end up going towards games and other tools after Source 2's release, but I wouldn't imagine they would stop support for CS:GO, TF2 and such just because it got released, it's more "we'll get around to it but we want to release this first and foremost and do it right"

to be fair, that's probably right. when hl2 was leaked, people got pissed because it was advertised as a nearly finished game, but what they found was a broken pile of alpha. valve probably want to make sure that when they show off hl3, they have a finished game that people will actually be happy with

I mean Gabe flat out said that ignoring everything they've learned with DOTA 2/CSGO/TF2/Portal 2 would be a bad idea. I'm not criticizing them for that because I love all those games except DOTA 2, it's just that multiplayer experiences are clearly working out for them over all else at the moment, so I can't imagine the Half Life 3 team is very large. Keep in mind that Gabe Newell is a business man, he came up at Microsoft, not id software. Now it could be likely that Half Life 3 would be the game to pioneer Source 2 and the Vive, because most other Valve games in general sold while being packed in with something else, but if Half Life isn't the most profitable thing for them right now, why would they?

i just hope they dont release a new engine and tools with a base game like unreal 4 and want the modding community to finish production and choose what assets end up in it like the ut game

Personally, with the way they tend to be pioneers with the Half Life series (HL1 being revolutionary and same with HL2) I imagine Episode Three will attempt a similar grab at revolution in gaming. Maybe they have it deeply integrated with a VR headset and make it play seamlessly with it, again making technological jumps and changing the face of gaming. And that's why they're taking so long, because an approach like that presents many problems. How the hell do you make it affordable or marketable through Steam if you'd need VR to fully experience it?

[QUOTE='[Green];48543432']Personally, with the way they tend to be pioneers with the Half Life series (HL1 being revolutionary and same with HL2) I imagine Episode Three will attempt a similar grab at revolution in gaming. Maybe they have it deeply integrated with a VR headset and make it play seamlessly with it, again making technological jumps and changing the face of gaming. And that's why they're taking so long, because an approach like that presents many problems. How the hell do you make it affordable or marketable through Steam if you'd need VR to fully experience it?[/QUOTE] It's not Episode 3. Valve abandoned the episodic model and Gabe said they wouldn't do it again because it was hard to get to their standard of quality while making games quickly

[QUOTE=Sand Castle;48543560]It's not Episode 3. Valve abandoned the episodic model and Gabe said they wouldn't do it again because it was hard to get to their standard of quality while making games quickly[/QUOTE] tbh i think the entire reason that it probably won't be called episode 3 is that everyone now expects it to be half-life 3. i mean, it's what everyone has known it as for a few years now. but it's supposedly the last game in the trilogy, there is no pressure on them to make a shorter game to fit the episodic model, they could call it episode 3 out of continuity. i doubt it, though. edit: clarifying: i think the game became known as hl3 before valve decided it was called hl3.

I believe Laidlaw said that he finished a script for Half Life 3 in 2009

snip

nobody should caaaaaaaare whether it's called HL3 or Episode 3 it is totally inconsequential like how is this still even a discussion, it does not matter

Right but what does matter is the length and presentation of the next installment in the series It's the difference between a hill and a mountain, not the name

[QUOTE=Sand Castle;48543560]It's not Episode 3. Valve abandoned the episodic model and Gabe said they wouldn't do it again because it was hard to get to their standard of quality while making games quickly[/QUOTE] They abandoned the episodic model of development, meaning short games made in a short time, but that doesn't mean the name can't be Episode 3. Half life 3 seems like an even more unlikely name, it doesn't fit in with the naming of the previous games and is better suited for a completely new story arc. It's still part of the HL2 story, it doesn't make much sense for the HL2 story arc to go HL2, EP1, EP2, HL3. There isn't really anything to suggest it will be HL3, the only real reason I've seen is because people say it won't be a short game anymore, but that doesn't mean the next game is going to be called HL3, the name doesn't affect the length of it at all. Both seem unlikely.

Okay I will just say this though; Back after I finished Episode 2 like 8 years ago, I was adamant for a couple of years it would be called Episode 3. Now that I think about it...why would it be? The ending for EP2 is good enough to be a game ending, so they can start HL3 on a "Time has passed" rather than a "PREVIOUSLY ON EPISODE 2 5 MINUTES AGO"

Episode 3 wouldnt be a tough game to stamp out. We wrap things up at White Forest, fly to the icy tundra, meet up with Mossman, something challenging happens, Borealis, Teleportation bits, Gman "Blah Blah Blah", Alex gives birth to an Vortiguant/Human Hybrid and the Rule 34 community shits a brick and BOOM HL2 episodes arc over. There is no reason that would take 8 years to make. Theyre working on other stuff you silly billies.

[QUOTE=Kickin Balls;48543855]Okay I will just say this though; Back after I finished Episode 2 like 8 years ago, I was adamant for a couple of years it would be called Episode 3. Now that I think about it...why would it be? The ending for EP2 is good enough to be a game ending, so they can start HL3 on a "Time has passed" rather than a "PREVIOUSLY ON EPISODE 2 5 MINUTES AGO"[/QUOTE] What would be the point in that? They are not going to skip anything, the games are from Gordon's continual perspective and that doesn't change. He was (seemingly) knocked out at the end of EP2 so it won't be an immediate continuation, but it is not going to suddenly be a long while after and everything has been solved and there's a new story. It'll continue on from where EP2 left it, most likely either waking up where he was at the end of EP2, or somewhere else in White Forest a short while after. [QUOTE=TheTrainRider;48543955]Episode 3 wouldnt be a tough game to stamp out. We wrap things up at White Forest, fly to the icy tundra, meet up with Mossman, something challenging happens, Borealis, Teleportation bits, Gman "Blah Blah Blah", Alex gives birth to an Vortiguant/Human Hybrid and the Rule 34 community shits a brick and BOOM HL2 episodes arc over. There is no reason that would take 8 years to make. Theyre working on other stuff you silly billies.[/QUOTE] The name of the game does not affect the content of it, and neither does the amount of time the game has taken to be made affect the name of it. It may not be an episode anymore but that doesn't mean it's suddenly HL3.

[QUOTE=TheTrainRider;48540915]The question that arises from this is, have Valve realized their modding tools are outdated and have abandoned updating while working on Source 2, or have Valve given up a modding focus all together in favor of something like VR and Hardware?[/QUOTE]Considering that Valve have actively said that the Source 1 tools have aged really badly and completely rewritten/replaced them for Source 2, probably the former. [QUOTE=bencelot;48541007]Pretty sure Valve focus 90% of their efforts into Steam these days. It makes them way more money than source engine or their games. As long as DOTA and CS keep players on the Steam system they're golden no matter what.[/QUOTE]It's been years since I saw the statistic, but I'm pretty sure the core Steam team is actually surprisingly small. [QUOTE=Sand Castle;48543744]I believe Laidlaw said that he finished a script for Half Life 3 in 2009[/QUOTE]Laidlaw wrote in an email very recently that there's no such thing as a stand-alone "script" written up and handed from up high down to the development team to execute on. [QUOTE=Butthurter;48544103]why are we even debating about the title of a likely onhold game with zero marketing[/QUOTE]Because what else would we discuss? Actually playing the videogame series this thread is about, or the mods that have sprang from it? Pfft.

I hope they are making HL3/Ep3 so long because they want to present game so long and so rich with gameplay content that game industry had never seen something like this before.

[QUOTE=Knurr;48544268]I hope they are making HL3/Ep3 so long because they want to present game so long and so rich with gameplay content that game industry had never seen something like this before.[/QUOTE] For every year passed, 5 hours are added to the game, and that's just speedrunning. That's how they get this time; they use the Half-Life 1 upside down speedrunning mano o' mano action team to speedrun the game and it takes 5 hours for one chapter. And they have to play it upside down as well