Half-life 2 Cut Content - Is it me or dose the cut content look better than what we got?
4,996 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Sergeant Stacker;47138928]Look, everybody has their own interpretations of stuff in the old story among other things, and if merges were to occur then compromises regarding that would have to be made that some devs might not want to make[/QUOTE]
Compromises are better then dead mods
[QUOTE=Sergeant Stacker;47138928]Oh, this discussion again? Look, everybody has their own interpretations of stuff in the old story among other things, and if merges were to occur then compromises regarding that would have to be made that some devs might not want to make. [I]Please stop suggesting merges[/I].[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;BwzcBZrM3Js]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwzcBZrM3Js[/video]
[QUOTE=WhyNott;47138944]Compromises are better then dead mods[/QUOTE]
I agree with him, as I don't want MI to drop dead.
[QUOTE=ProZak;47126021](blaming the tools is always easy enough) [/QUOTE]
Are you sure? VVIS and VRAD always break on my computer :downs:
[QUOTE=9999999;47136361]From far as I know, the MI team and the terminius team are not on the best of terms[/QUOTE]
Yes this is almost 100% true we are currently working on resolving these issues for a pending merger.
[QUOTE=Sally;47140583]
Yes this is almost 100% true we are currently working on resolving these issues for a pending merger.[/QUOTE]
Fantastic news! I can't wait to see what wonderful things born from it!
[QUOTE=jackfu;47141017]Fantastic news! I can't wait to see what wonderful things born from it![/QUOTE]
After exchanging kik's I received a screenshot of their prototype airex, it seems they are going for the heavily polluted look unlike those presented in 1.6 edition.
[t]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/486693121611532247/275DB6DC6AB8D1CBE2A24058066AB35266CB0B95/[/t]
After exchanging some of my semi [sp]erotic[/sp] drawings of the I.A. Latham you and I should expect more to come
[QUOTE=Sally;47143350]After exchanging kik's I received a screenshot of their prototype airex, it seems they are going for the heavily polluted look unlike those presented in 1.6 edition.
[t]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/486693121611532247/275DB6DC6AB8D1CBE2A24058066AB35266CB0B95/[/t]
[/QUOTE]
Poor Reb... Combine, looks like they're forced to use axes to carve windows in their facilities. And they're not too handy with them.
[QUOTE=Cvoxalury;47144432]Poor Reb... Combine, looks like they're forced to use axes to carve windows in their facilities. And they're not too handy with them.[/QUOTE]
Hey now don't hate, they used some of the spare arches from c17_archtype to make those.
Besides they have models for that now.
[t]http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/32984107353008486/A5C842334BE4A66AC1B2FBA052B581A0F9DF008D/[/t]
[sp]I sent a picture of my dick to get this one better of been worth it[/sp]
[QUOTE=Milkyway M16;47130011]I've worked with Source a lot, not as much as you but still a decent amount. I fully agree. It sure has its downfalls and I have the same gripes as any other Source modder. I just don't let that get in the way of making the game that I want to make. Source sucks for real game development and I would never choose to use it to make a commercial game, but it has yet to actually have a negative affect on my motivation.[/QUOTE]
First time you run into "Too many vertex format changes in frame, whole world not rendered" you'll want to stop working with it completely. I'm tempted to upload one of our VMFs of Terminal for you to take a look at.
[QUOTE=Milkyway M16;47130011]I'm not trying to be rude at all here, but I don't understand how this was ever motivation for you guys. To me, I just focus on making stuff that I think is cool and stuff that I can be proud of.[/QUOTE]
Because even though a lot of the things they said were moronic, there was also truth in some of it, and that was nice.
[QUOTE=Milkyway M16;47130011]For some reason I don't think it's as hard as you think. There are still plenty of leak mods that pop up and new modders who enter the scene. I've never seen MI actively try to recruit either, so maybe people don't know that you're looking for modders.[/QUOTE]
Probably not. We've always had a hard time finding people that knows just [i]something[/i] about the RtB storyline and is just a little skilled. We've never really tried recruiting actively but its something we've talked about on numerous occasions.
[QUOTE=Milkyway M16;47130011]Sorry for the mega-post, I didn't have time in between all of your posts to reply to them individually. Basically all I'm saying is that leak/rtb mods are not a lost cause. It blows my mind that in all these years, no one has released anything substantial and that no one has even surpassed MI in terms of released content. It can be done and I have no reason to believe otherwise. There are some major hurdles to overcome but I see no reason why it can't be done to some degree(meaning maybe not a full game, but maybe a few remade chapters with a coherent story).[/QUOTE]
Considering how much content we see taken from MI, I'm surprised as well. I'm thinking its because people doesn't understand enough aspects of Source to make it possible. Especially the code is a big show-stopper.
[QUOTE=Sally;47140583]Are you sure? VVIS and VRAD always break on my computer :downs:[/QUOTE]
I don't think I've really had problems with VVIS or VRAD but more Hammer itself. We run the compile tools using external batch scripts to prevent Hammer from shitting itself.
[QUOTE=ProZak;47144848]First time you run into "Too many vertex format changes in frame, whole world not rendered" you'll want to stop working with it completely.[/QUOTE]
Going to disagree here. Yes I know how irritating it gets, but it could be overcome. If it's a very severe case, well, the map composition is gotta be altered then. I've been getting it for dozens of times yet it wasn't enough to stop me, I eventually solve those.
[QUOTE=ProZak;47144848]First time you run into "Too many vertex format changes in frame, whole world not rendered" you'll want to stop working with it completely. I'm tempted to upload one of our VMFs of Terminal for you to take a look at.
[/quote]
I've mentioned it around the forums but the issue there is that your lightmap scale is too low, so when the map gets divided up for lightmaps it gets completely destroyed by the amount of faces and what nots. e3_terminal suffers this a lot because of its nice shadows in a very broad plaza.
[quote]
I don't think I've really had problems with VVIS or VRAD but more Hammer itself. We run the compile tools using external batch scripts to prevent Hammer from shitting itself.[/QUOTE]
This was actually a joke about people blaming the tools for being so "shitty".
I have an idea for the AirEx chapter that I thought up a while ago, just decided to put it out there in case anyone wants to use it.
So there's a shield over the AirEx, preventing the Rebels from really getting to it. To take down the shield, the player has to get to 3-4 combine structure tower proto citadel thingies that are powering the sheild and shut each of them down for the shield to drop and the conscripts to get through.
Sorta like the blast pit sequence in HL, only more open world-ish and on a larger scale.
is converting to .map [I]really[/I] the best way to decompile maps in the goldsource engine? surely there's a better way that gets more usable results.
[QUOTE=Cvoxalury;47145120]Going to disagree here. Yes I know how irritating it gets, but it could be overcome. If it's a very severe case, well, the map composition is gotta be altered then. I've been getting it for dozens of times yet it wasn't enough to stop me, I eventually solve those.[/QUOTE]
We debugged it thoroughly and looked into the engine code to see exactly what's causing this. We found that Source only handles 128 (different) textures onscreen at the same time. I made a test map proving this limitation.
I'd say there's more than 128 different textures visible here. There's 72 different textures on the back wall. Notice there's nothing being spewed here.
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/MissingInformation/Episode%20One/worldvertex%20error/zoo_textures0003.jpg[/t]
Everything is fine and dandy here!
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/MissingInformation/Episode%20One/worldvertex%20error/zoo_textures0004.jpg[/t]
Oh fuck.
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/MissingInformation/Episode%20One/worldvertex%20error/zoo_textures0005.jpg[/t]
I recommend putting the last two images in separate tabs and switch between them and see the difference.
[QUOTE=Sally;47146652]I've mentioned it around the forums but the issue there is that your lightmap scale is too low, so when the map gets divided up for lightmaps it gets completely destroyed by the amount of faces and what nots. e3_terminal suffers this a lot because of its nice shadows in a very broad plaza.[/QUOTE]
Hmm, I don't recall if we looked into this. Can you show any examples of this as evidence? I'd rather not spend time on something if it turns out to be dead end. Interesting either way because none of the test maps really take this into consideration.
[QUOTE=Jackathan;47154250]is converting to .map [I]really[/I] the best way to decompile maps in the goldsource engine? surely there's a better way that gets more usable results.[/QUOTE]
How else would you do it?
I keep forgetting about those Project 9 images. I'll see if I can remember to post them after work tomorrow (late Wednesday UTC+2).
[QUOTE=ProZak;47156632]
How else would you do it?
[/QUOTE]
I've never worked with this stuff before, but how are Source .bsp's decompiled into .vmf's with a nearly perfect decompile? It's the same file type, right? The engine code is just a bit different.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong and that will never work.
[QUOTE=ProZak;47156632]We debugged it thoroughly and looked into the engine code to see exactly what's causing this. We found that Source only handles 128 (different) textures onscreen at the same time. I made a test map proving this limitation.[/QUOTE]
You might remember that we talked about it earlier, actually. After you showed me those two screenshots I myself made a map that has 240 blocks with each having a separate texture plus a floor texture plus skybox. I'm not getting too_many_vertex on that map. I know where the 128 number comes from but does it mean the pure number of textures for sure?
[QUOTE=ProZak;47144848]I'm tempted to upload one of our VMFs of Terminal for you to take a look at.[/QUOTE]
So please do, I'm just as eager to find a solution.
[QUOTE=ProZak;47156632]We found that Source only handles 128 (different) textures onscreen at the same time.[/QUOTE]
Man, wouldn't be Source without arbitrary hard-coded limits designed for computers over a decade old.
[QUOTE=ProZak;47156632]
Hmm, I don't recall if we looked into this. Can you show any examples of this as evidence? I'd rather not spend time on something if it turns out to be dead end. Interesting either way because none of the test maps really take this into consideration[/QUOTE]
Honestly the best way to prove it would be to find one of your mucky versions of e3_terminal and select all the brushes and set them to 64 or 128.
I came to this conclusion when my edition of terminal that's a ancestor of e3_terminal suffered the same issue. I also found that by disabling the 3dsky, the error disappears too. I will do my best to replicate this and post it here.
Although I think there are multiple ways to trigger this error
[QUOTE=Nukedrabbit95;47157956]Man, wouldn't be Source without arbitrary hard-coded limits designed for computers over a decade old.[/QUOTE]
It wouldn't be valve if the value was stored in licensee code with no other way to change it.
ProZak, I'm curious if there is any difference visible in the world in those last two screen-shots: I see the memory usage change in the graph but no artifacts in the world itself that I can tell.
I haven't seen any good combine remakes around so i decided to take my shot at it. Haven't been on this forum in awhile, thought a refresher could thoughtful!
[img]http://puu.sh/g1Svl/ff7151f523.jpg[/img]
Based it on one of the early combine concepts with my little edits with it. Going to be fixing the strokes and smoothing out the errors, but so far so good?
interesting
i'm curious to see how it would look with textures
[QUOTE=ZaxonYin;47162548]I haven't seen any good combine remakes around so i decided to take my shot at it. Haven't been on this forum in awhile, thought a refresher could thoughtful!
[img]http://puu.sh/g1Svl/ff7151f523.jpg[/img]
Based it on one of the early combine concepts with my little edits with it. Going to be fixing the strokes and smoothing out the errors, but so far so good?[/QUOTE]
Its good enough for me to pretend to be your friend as I use you for my hl1 alpha mods
I forgot last night to post this.
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/id/Trippinonskittles/[/url]
I have a older version here on my screenshot showcase. I don't know if i should remove the stitch lines in the body armor or keep them. Maybe put them in a different area?
[QUOTE=ZaxonYin;47164661]I forgot last night to post this.
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/id/Trippinonskittles/[/url]
I have a older version here on my screenshot showcase. I don't know if i should remove the stitch lines in the body armor or keep them. Maybe put them in a different area?[/QUOTE]
Why would you need them on an actual, in-game model? It can and should be achieved via bump mapping. This goes for a lot, really a lot of detail stuff that everybody puts in for pretty renders but doesn't make sense to be sculpted for in-game use.
If you're asking in design sense, then do keep them I guess.
[QUOTE=Jackathan;47157033]I've never worked with this stuff before, but how are Source .bsp's decompiled into .vmf's with a nearly perfect decompile? It's the same file type, right? The engine code is just a bit different.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong and that will never work.[/QUOTE]
I wrote a really detailed post that explained most of this but apparently that's lost forever. Here's quick rewrite.
The GoldSrc format is quite different from the Source format despite both being BSP implementations.
See here for details of the GoldSrc format:
[url]http://www.quakeforge.net/doxygen/mapformat.html[/url]
I'm not entirely sure why the decompilers out there for GoldSrc produce such terrible output but I can only assume its lack of understanding the formats. Then again I'm no expert in this area.
[QUOTE=Cvoxalury;47157157]You might remember that we talked about it earlier, actually. After you showed me those two screenshots I myself made a map that has 240 blocks with each having a separate texture plus a floor texture plus skybox. I'm not getting too_many_vertex on that map. I know where the 128 number comes from but does it mean the pure number of textures for sure?[/QUOTE]
To be honest I'm not quite sure anymore. I had someone who knows more about Source than me, take a look at it and that's what I've been told the limitation is about.
The code that spews the error looks like this (extract - starting in gl_surf.cpp at line 868). I've removed some preprocessor definitions that would only be confusing.
[code]if ( g_WorldStaticMeshes[sortID] != pLastMesh )
{
if( meshList.Count() < MAX_VERTEX_FORMAT_CHANGES - 1 )
{
meshIndex = meshList.AddToTail();
meshList[meshIndex].numbatches = 0;
meshList[meshIndex].firstbatch = batchList.Count();
pLastMesh = g_WorldStaticMeshes[sortID];
Assert( pLastMesh );
meshList[meshIndex].pMesh = pLastMesh;
}
else
{
if ( bWarn )
{
Warning( "Too many vertex format changes in frame, whole world not rendered\n" );
bWarn = false;
}
continue;
}
}[/code]
[QUOTE=Cvoxalury;47157157]So please do, I'm just as eager to find a solution.[/QUOTE]
I've found my laptop but I seem unable to find the test maps I've created. Might be on another computer. Will check later today.
[QUOTE=Sally;47160441]Honestly the best way to prove it would be to find one of your mucky versions of e3_terminal and select all the brushes and set them to 64 or 128.
I came to this conclusion when my edition of terminal that's a ancestor of e3_terminal suffered the same issue. I also found that by disabling the 3dsky, the error disappears too. I will do my best to replicate this and post it here.
Although I think there are multiple ways to trigger this error[/QUOTE]
I changed the entire map to 128 lightmap scale and I'm still getting this error. Any luck with disabling the 3d skybox? Or finding something more specific? I looked at the code a bit now and I've found something that stops it (not really sure its an ideal fix), I have no idea what it does to performance or if there's anything else being funky because of it (yet).
[QUOTE=bord2tears;47162514]ProZak, I'm curious if there is any difference visible in the world in those last two screen-shots: I see the memory usage change in the graph but no artifacts in the world itself that I can tell.[/QUOTE]
I'm assuming Source stops rendering a lot of the brushes because they're far enough out of the view frustum but I'm not sure. That makes sense to me seeing how little difference there is between the two screens.
The log file I promised weeks back:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/F1qDnoC.png[/t]
All links from that chat (minus the Dropbox one, I'm not linking someone elses Dropbox here):
[url]http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7916/gabennoticerussiansheydfa4.jpg[/url]
[url]http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/612760592531653186/B155123C5275A08855E5941828C4D9BAB0ED55AA/[/url]
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=228943071[/url]
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=228943115[/url]
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=228943173[/url]
The images that exist on the previously mentioned Dropbox, all exists here on my personal one including a lot of other images I've saved over the years from Project-9.
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/2012-01-15_00003.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/211.png[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/6c820b153ef0.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/751dde3d495d.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1terminal01.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1terminal012.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1_garage2011_030000.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1_garage2011_030001.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1_garage2011_030002.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1_garage2011_030003.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1_garage2011_030004.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1_garage2011_030005.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1_garage2011_030006.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1_garage2011_030007.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1_garage2011_030008.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1_garage2011_030009.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1_garage2011_030010.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1_garage2011_new0006.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1_garage2011_new0028.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d2depot010020sb8.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/Hotel.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/oh shi.png[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/rnd_trash.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/snag0015bs8.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/snag0018ll4.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/terminalota.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/terminalota2.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/waaii0004.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/waaii0005.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/waaii0006.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/waaii0007.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/waaii0008.jpg[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/wtfterm.jpg[/t]
Did I forget something that I might have promised? Let me know yo.
isn't .map another editor format? or are you talking about lack of understanding the .map format, as opposed to the .bsp format?
also those images look really good
[QUOTE=ProZak;47185204]
I changed the entire map to 128 lightmap scale and I'm still getting this error. Any luck with disabling the 3d skybox?[/QUOTE]
I once had TMVFC because of 3d skybox with a lot of brushes in it (remember those expensive concrete towers in proto_c17inner?), once I disable the skybox (in-game) the errors would stop. Even though all those towers share the single texture. So I'm more inclined towards it being tied to faces...
As for the pictures, I believe some of them are not Project 9, namely the green-tinted Terminal Plaza and that Subt corridor, that's Old Story mod. Though all of them are kinda intertwined... to me, at least.
[QUOTE=ProZak;47185204]II changed the entire map to 128 lightmap scale and I'm still getting this error. Any luck with disabling the 3d skybox? Or finding something more specific? I looked at the code a bit now and I've found something that stops it (not really sure its an ideal fix), I have no idea what it does to performance or if there's anything else being funky because of it (yet)..[/QUOTE]
Infact now you say it I found awhile ago that disabling the 3d skybox worked.
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3659338/Project%209/d1terminal01.jpg[/t]
I remember when a friend sent me this screenshot awhile ago, it was one of my main sources of inspiration for my terminal map.
Honestly the creativity of the screenshots you posted put almost every beta mod to shame, at least all of my work for sure.
[QUOTE=ProZak;47185204][B]Snip large quotes please - OvB [/b]
[/QUOTE]
Holy tits man great work!
[QUOTE=Jackathan;47185274]isn't .map another editor format? or are you talking about lack of understanding the .map format, as opposed to the .bsp format?
also those images look really good[/QUOTE]
Yeah MAP is another editor format, a binary one as well. Could be the understanding of MAP that's missing but again, I have no idea. I've never looked into GoldSrc map formats and I have no plans on doing it.
[QUOTE=Cvoxalury;47185613]I once had TMVFC because of 3d skybox with a lot of brushes in it (remember those expensive concrete towers in proto_c17inner?), once I disable the skybox (in-game) the errors would stop. Even though all those towers share the single texture. So I'm more inclined towards it being tied to faces...
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sally;47187414]Infact now you say it I found awhile ago that disabling the 3d skybox worked.[/QUOTE]
I tried disabling the 3d skybox using r_3dsky 0 and that didn't stop the error from being flooded in the console.
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Half-life 2 Cut Content - Is it me or dose the cut content look better than what we got?
