Half-life 2 Cut Content - Is it me or dose the cut content look better than what we got?
4,996 replies, posted
Man, if the mods allow it we should all make a Half-Life 2 Leak Megathread with a proper OP and stuff like that. I'd do it myself but I am amazingly shitty at making OPs and end up just procrastinating and forgetting about it :v:
-nevermind for some reason the third link didnt work in chrome-
*Scrubbed*
Heh, I just realized that Doktor's version of the leak has my crappy VanceHQ "fix" in it.
[img]http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9668/hl22013032114292962.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=juhana;39988595]-lots of good points[/QUOTE]
I mostly agree, but I disagree with points 5 and 7. For point 5, Conscripts were a good idea, just not in that way. Conscripts would fit if the game took place after Combine Rule was first established, since the Human Military forces would still be needed to control the Xenian pests until the Combine had things under control. As the Combine establish control, Conscripts are shipped off to be transhumanised and intigrated into the newly formed Transhuman Sector 17 (or wherever) Overwatch. It's a good idea in the old concept, it just has no place in the new concept.
Point Seven I disagree with because having Bullsquids in an abandoned Canal or Houndeye roaming parts of the Coast would be a nice callback to the original game and remind the player of the previous world and what happened back then. It also illustrates the fact that the Combine controls the world, but they don't control the wild. Although arguably Antlions already boldly illustrate that fact. Still, it would have been nice to have some. I would have loved to see some inner-city Civil Protection come out to an old Canal to intercept you, and end up fighting the Wildlife instead. It'd outline the fact that CP's are just a bunch of bullies who's power comes from a law and intimidation, rather than actual strengths.
[QUOTE=Sergeant Stacker;39993387]It's because Doktor's version has a super unstable GameUI.dll, which will crash the game if you even look at it wrong. Just go into hl2/bin and replace that Gameui with the Gameui_bak.dll and that should get it working.[/QUOTE]
It works now, thanks.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;39993672]
Point Seven I disagree with because having Bullsquids in an abandoned Canal or Houndeye roaming parts of the Coast would be a nice callback to the original game and remind the player of the previous world and what happened back then. It also illustrates the fact that the Combine controls the world, but they don't control the wild. Although arguably Antlions already boldly illustrate that fact. Still, it would have been nice to have some.[/QUOTE]
Everyone keeps saying there's room for bullsquids and houndeyes in the canal levels or even in the coastal ones, but I just can't see it. I made a huge long post about this matter in the HL2 enhancement mod thread when I was arguing against their inclusion to that mod. The thing is, it might just be possible to sneak them into one or two locations somewhere, but that's just the problem: If they can't appear in significant numbers, they are by definition an enemy that isn't utilised to its full potential, essentially a third wheel. Would you [I]really[/I] wish to encounter just one or two bullsquids somewhere, and then have them disappear? That's the gameplay equivalent of cock-tease.
[B]
By all means, please do show which parts of the retail canal and coast levels could have had these enemies. Provide screenshots if necessary.[/B] Please take into account that these levels are both filled with rebel and combine outposts, meaning that these very noticeable huge beasts would have been killed if they lived near them. Also take into account that these creatures came to Earth about two decades ago, and they would thus have starved to death in any enclosed spaces (and there are LOTS of those, believe me). Again, you [I]might[/I] find a couple of suitable places, but they still wouldn't allow these enemies to appear often enough to justify their inclusion.
*Scrubbed*
Bullsquids might make sense in the mines of Ravenholm. They DID feed off of headcrabs, if i remember correctly. They couldn't survive within ravenholm itself; they'd be overwhelmed by the sheer amount of zombies, but it would make sense if some could safely feed in the mines.
That one place around where you get the airboat, where you navigate through toxic waste over patches of dirt, where you can see a citizen get crabbed? Maybe you could have some bullsquids there. Really, anywhere there is major shelling you can have bullsquids.
*Scrubbed*
[QUOTE=juhana;39994381]Everyone keeps saying there's room for bullsquids and houndeyes in the canal levels or even in the coastal ones, but I just can't see it. I made a huge long post about this matter in the HL2 enhancement mod thread when I was arguing against their inclusion to that mod. The thing is, it might just be possible to sneak them into one or two locations somewhere, but that's just the problem: If they can't appear in significant numbers, they are by definition an enemy that isn't utilised to its full potential, essentially a third wheel. Would you [I]really[/I] wish to encounter just one or two bullsquids somewhere, and then have them disappear? That's the gameplay equivalent of cock-tease.
[B]
By all means, please do show which parts of the retail canal and coast levels could have had these enemies. Provide screenshots if necessary.[/B] Please take into account that these levels are both filled with rebel and combine outposts, meaning that these very noticeable huge beasts would have been killed if they lived near them. Also take into account that these creatures came to Earth about two decades ago, and they would thus have starved to death in any enclosed spaces (and there are LOTS of those, believe me). Again, you [I]might[/I] find a couple of suitable places, but they still wouldn't allow these enemies to appear often enough to justify their inclusion.[/QUOTE]
I agree with your original post entirely, but I so wish they had been included for mappers to use.
And I realize that it would have been more work on Valve's part to update them to fit with newer code etc, and they would also have to consider file size limitations, but still, it would have been a godsend, instead of all those hours I spent trying to hack together fixes for the outdated bullsquid and houndeye code.
[QUOTE=Milkyway M16;39982272]Ha, Lost Concepts. I was a part of that "team." Back then I couldn't do much besides BASIC model stuff and BASIC texturing. As lame as that "mod" was, I made some good friends because of it, a few of which I still talk to regularly, so I can thank it for that.[/QUOTE]
Oh god that mod, I was responsible for a lot of shit in that. Mostly models but also a couple of maps. Namely this piece of poop:
[IMG]http://images.wikia.com/half-life/en/images/2/20/Citizen_gasmask.jpg[/IMG]
and this map 'port':
[IMG]http://www.planetphillip.com/media/images/2009/may-09/1024-lost-concept-dev4-73.jpg[/IMG]
It was right when I was first starting out doing source modding. On the plus side I learnt a lot of stuff about mapping and modeling using trial and error mostly.
I love HL2's old stuff, though not so much the leak, but the old narratives and concepts. That gritty smog-filled original story really gets me in the jiblets. I'd love to actually go and make a proper mod based on that 'get your free tvs' era.
[QUOTE=juhana;39988595]While I too find the cut content interesting and want someone to fix it up, I too agree that the final game was much better than what Valve were planning back then:
1. The storyline seemed like a collection of "cool locations!!!11111" strung together by the narrative. The more rounded three-act story structure we ended up with was much better: Point Insertion through Black Mesa East is the introductory phase, everything from the attack on BME to Entanglement is the conflict phase, and the streetwar and the citadel is the concluding phase. The cast of characters is more rounded and better developed as a result, and the teleportation technology provides a clear central story focus.
[/QUOTE]
The map prefixes hint that it still has a 3 arc map story line.
And much of the maps where to have REALLY good story in-between each "stage": for example AirEX was to have this HUGE ending battle, and the narration on it was really really good; I would have loved to see such a battle actually found its way through the development.
[QUOTE=juhana;39988595]
2. Furthermore, Gordon's role as a hero evolves in a much more interesting way in the final game: In act one, Gordon merely tries to survive; In act two, he actively participates in the resistance; In act three, he is the leader of the said resistance. In the original storyline, the phase where the players mission is to just survive lasts merely until he reaches Eli's lab (which also took place earlier in the storyline, as much of the cut content took place afterwards). There Eli orders Gordon to destroy the AirEx, and it immediately becomes his mission to defeat the enemy. How boring and cliched! In the final game, the player does not enter Nova Prospekt with the intention of destroying it, he just accidentally causes that to happen. Only then does he become the charge-taking hero.
[/QUOTE]
In the leak, he's more of a leader than this hero: in-fact only a few people really know who he is (barring the vorts).
[QUOTE=juhana;39988595]
3. In the retail game, every section has it's own unique gameplay mechanic or a set of them to make them interesting, but I can't say the same about many of the cut locations. Consider this: The first two chapters introduce the world; Route Kanal introduces basic vanilla combat; Water hazard has the airboat; Ravenholm has the traps and the gravity gun; The coast levels have the Buggy; The prison levels have first the commandable antlions, and then the turret defence sections; The streetwar sections have the squad mechanic; Citadel has the supercharged gravity gun. Compare this with the AirEx for instance, and what do you have? Some boring factory where you shoot lots of combines?
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, while the leak did have some of this, it does get really repetitive (AirEX is just fighting combine and stalkers in and industrial park).
[QUOTE=juhana;39988595]
4. I know many praise the supposed darkness of the original storyline, but I find it rather cliched and unsubtle. Post-apocalyptic wastelands? Darkened skies? Obvious propaganda posters? Haven't seen any of that before. In the final game, there's this much more interesting atmosphere, where the sunny skies and the singing birds create a disturbing contrast with what's going on. It also feels more like a real world, and thus it's infinitely more disturbing to see it in such a sad state. Furthermore, I like how the main focus was moved from the combine stealing Earth's natural resources to the transhumanism aspect and the teleportation technology. The threat of them stealing natural resources (still hinted to be going on in the retail game) is rather abstract on an emotional level, whilst getting your body altered without consent is much more relatable and thus more disturbing.
[/QUOTE]
Well, it's not just that is HAS those, it's the stark contrast from the combine tech, human tech, and this defiled nature: a really good example is the Gman intro, where you have this nice scene with a river, that then quickly dries up: the birds go quiet, and smoke / fire dominated the city just down the valley.
It was meant to feel really oppressive, and it does. But you can see this palpable darkness getting less and less each development stage.
[QUOTE=juhana;39988595]
5. The idea of the conscripts SUCKED! The AirEx is very important to the combine, yet they utilise human conscripts instead of their transhumanist forces in guarding it? That's incredibly nonsensical and stupid. Furthermore, their presence in the streetwar would have taken away from the feeling that the regular citizens of C17 were taking back their freedom by their own account (even if Gordon inspired them to do so).
[/QUOTE]
I concur, but when I play the leak files, I don't see any in AirEX, or anywhere else for that matter.
[QUOTE=juhana;39988595]
6. There were too many weapons, many of which are basically variations on the same thing (THREE melee weapons? Half a dozen machine guns? Two flare guns? Why?), or useless trinkets that amuse you for a while, but then prove to be useless. I guess the fire weapons were cut to not make them overlap with the gravity gun, as that can throw those canisters at enemies. Frankly a much better choice than to have a pointless amusing trinket like the flare gun waste up inventory space (The GG in contrast can not only set fire to enemies, but do tons of other things too). The Tau Cannon admittedly is pretty cool and useful, but what would it use for ammunition? Abundant uranium packs scattered around by the resistance? Not to mention that its presence would destroy the carefully balanced pistol+357+crossbow trinity of long-range weapons. Furthermore, having too many weapons just makes the gameplay cumbersome. Just try playing Missing Information with impulse 101, and you'll see what I mean: It is very annoying to navigate through that overlong inventory whilst in combat.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's really cumbersome: the only weapon that I think should have been kept was the AK.
[QUOTE=juhana;39988595]
7. Too many enemies. Some of them are cool, but it's not a good idea to include enemies if you can't utilise them to their fullest potential. Seeing just a random bullsquid or two somewhere in the canal levels would only have left us crawing for more. Had all the planned enemies been included, I doubt it would have been possible to make full use of them, especially with the cuts made to the story. The stalkers are much better utilised as visual representations of the cruelty of the Combine, rather than as things that come out to say boo.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's too bad in the leak they're [stalkers] thrown out in random areas (I mean, its effective and scary as FUCK), because it makes them look much less frail (Maybe a homage to the combine tech?) the they appear to be.
[QUOTE=juhana;39994381]Everyone keeps saying there's room for bullsquids and houndeyes in the canal levels or even in the coastal ones, but I just can't see it. I made a huge long post about this matter in the HL2 enhancement mod thread when I was arguing against their inclusion to that mod. The thing is, it might just be possible to sneak them into one or two locations somewhere, but that's just the problem: If they can't appear in significant numbers, they are by definition an enemy that isn't utilised to its full potential, essentially a third wheel. Would you [I]really[/I] wish to encounter just one or two bullsquids somewhere, and then have them disappear? That's the gameplay equivalent of cock-tease.
[B]
By all means, please do show which parts of the retail canal and coast levels could have had these enemies. Provide screenshots if necessary.[/B] Please take into account that these levels are both filled with rebel and combine outposts, meaning that these very noticeable huge beasts would have been killed if they lived near them. Also take into account that these creatures came to Earth about two decades ago, and they would thus have starved to death in any enclosed spaces (and there are LOTS of those, believe me). Again, you [I]might[/I] find a couple of suitable places, but they still wouldn't allow these enemies to appear often enough to justify their inclusion.[/QUOTE]
You've completely failed to take into account the fact that the maps were not set in stone. You could easily get Bullsquids in the canals somewhere when you have all the power in the world to change the map in any way. Aside from the Garage, Gate 5, and the Dam, most of the Canals look to be abandoned anyway. Chances are the only reason they're crawling with cops is because they were trying to stop you from reaching Black Mesa East.
Then there's the fact that the Coast only had Rebel outposts and Antlions prior to your arrival in City 17. The heavy Combine presents on the Coast was a follow-up operation after they failed to capture you at BME. You were the only reason the Combine attacked the Coast. At Nova Prospekt, Breen's speech to the Combine Officers references this fact.
Lastly, they wouldn't starve. I'm sure if Humans can find enough food to support an entire [I]town[/I] (Ravenholm), then Houndeye and Bullsquid shouldn't have much trouble getting food, even less because they can eat raw meat seemingly without worry.
This thread is gold, so many valuable data about the leak.
[QUOTE]I concur, but when I play the leak files, I don't see any in AirEX, or anywhere else for that matter.[/QUOTE]
I know. I got that from Raising The Bar. Either Valve hadn't implemented them yet, or they had reconsidered the concept before making the maps.
[QUOTE]You've completely failed to take into account the fact that the maps were not set in stone. You could easily get Bullsquids in the canals somewhere when you have all the power in the world to change the map in any way.[/QUOTE]
In other words, the map/story design should have served the purpose of including these enemies, instead of the other way around? While I love bullsquids and houndeyes, they're not worthy of inclusion if it takes THAT much trouble to include them. They aren't quite THAT important to the storyline or anything, just fun mementos of HL1.
Furthermore, when I spoke of them starving, I clearly specified "in enclosed spaces". This pretty much rules out Route Kanal entirely, along with other reasons. As for Water Hazard, there is indeed a little more space. But would they really have been fun to fight against whilst driving the boat? Remember that bullsquid's spit attacks are best avoided through strafing, something that's hard to do while driving. The ragdolls of these beasts are quite large and bulbous, so driving over them would cause the airboat to halt in an irritating way. Furthermore, they'd just end up being a bit of feature creep anyway: You already avoid the helicopter, the APCs, barnacles, and CPs dropping on you from above; Having a random bullsquid chucking spit at you in between all that would feel tacky and make things seem crowded; In other words, these enemies would have failed to fill up their own particular niche.
*Scrubbed*
[QUOTE=Sims_doc;39998142]What is this [B]Raising the Bar?[/B][/QUOTE]
A book about HL2 development that came out soon after the game was released.
In it, it is explained that the Air Exchange was to have been guarded by human conscripts, lead by Captain Vance (a cut character, combined with the character of Eli Maxwell in the final game), who secretly worked for the resistance. From this I presume that Gordon would have fought alongside these conscripts when he attacked the facility (though the leaked AirEx maps contain none).
They would later have been encountered (also as allies) during the Weather Control chapter and during the street war sections.
However, it was a good thing this idea got axed: Certainly the Combine wouldn't be foolish enough to trust the safeguarding of their key facility to potentially disloyal conscripts? As for their presence during the C17 uprising, it would have (storywise) downplayed the role of the ordinary citizens in reclaiming their freedom.
*Scrubbed*
[QUOTE=Sims_doc;39998251]Yeah, I can just imagine a Can Transformer taking back its Freedom and picking up the Combine!
But i'll look into that book, i was hoping for a video but I've read the entire Gears of War concept book and it was rather interesting so why not.[/QUOTE]
It's the probably the best 'behind-the-scenes' book I've ever read. It also includes stuff about the original HL, CSS and TF2.
A good site for beta files is hl2-beta.ru.
A mod I recommend is [url]http://hl2-beta.ru/download.php?view.15[/url]
It's the Air exchange mod. It basically adds the fixed AirEx maps found in the WC map pack.
I'm just posting it since it hasn't been posted in this thread yet.
The thing mod for the leak is pretty amusing.
[QUOTE=juhana;39998089]I know. I got that from Raising The Bar. Either Valve hadn't implemented them yet, or they had reconsidered the concept before making the maps.
In other words, the map/story design should have served the purpose of including these enemies, instead of the other way around? While I love bullsquids and houndeyes, they're not worthy of inclusion if it takes THAT much trouble to include them. They aren't quite THAT important to the storyline or anything, just fun mementos of HL1.
Furthermore, when I spoke of them starving, I clearly specified "in enclosed spaces". This pretty much rules out Route Kanal entirely, along with other reasons. As for Water Hazard, there is indeed a little more space. But would they really have been fun to fight against whilst driving the boat? Remember that bullsquid's spit attacks are best avoided through strafing, something that's hard to do while driving. The ragdolls of these beasts are quite large and bulbous, so driving over them would cause the airboat to halt in an irritating way. Furthermore, they'd just end up being a bit of feature creep anyway: You already avoid the helicopter, the APCs, barnacles, and CPs dropping on you from above; Having a random bullsquid chucking spit at you in between all that would feel tacky and make things seem crowded; In other words, these enemies would have failed to fill up their own particular niche.[/QUOTE]
The enemies [I]are[/I] a part of the map/story design, you make it seem like adding 20ft of extra map and three bullsquids is a gargantuan task only fit for the gods. Before when you said that an enemy showing up once or twice isn't worth the effort is obviously something that valve doesn't agree with, as there is an entire scene in HL2 showcasing one enemy you never see again (the itchyballswhatever).
They also certainly could have had their place in water hazard, there are numerous areas in that chapter where you're on foot in a larger area where they would've done just fine, as well as other areas where you're driving. I think that the real reason they weren't in the game is not because they would have made anything worse, but because they wouldn't have really made anything different enough to warrant working on them more than they already have. Time and money was a bigger factor than their effectivness.
Ichthyosaur is what kills you when you go beyond the map boundaries via ocean in the coast maps, no model but the nom is still there iirc.
[QUOTE=DigitalySane;40000637]Ichthyosaur is what kills you when you go beyond the map boundaries via ocean in the coast maps, no model but the nom is still there iirc.[/QUOTE]
Those are leeches that kill you.
Bullsquid's seemed at home in radioactive waters in HL1.
And what's to say the vort's couldn't tame or train the Houndeyes? Act as an early warning?
*Scrubbed*
i'd love to see tame houndeyes
Then there will probably be another character added that loves his pet hound-eye, naming it Larry.
And he becomes best friends with Lamarr and consume many watermelons together.
*Scrubbed*
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Half-life 2 Cut Content - Is it me or dose the cut content look better than what we got?
