ARMA Series (I, II, III) - v. Waiting For 3DEN Edition
5,000 replies, posted
Okay, here's my rough attempt at a division of responsibilities and assets for the upcoming op:
[QUOTE][B]Wizard:[/B] occupy bunker on Hill 350, with Zero and Sierra; respond to requests for fire/air and logistics support; coordinate evacuation (will have use of a UAZ)
[B]Zero:[/B] occupy bunker on Hill 350, with Wizard and Sierra; direct ground personnel (will have use of a UAZ)
[B]Alpha Squad:[/B] occupy bunker just west of Depot(will have use of a Ural, and a BRDM)
[B]Bravo Squad:[/B] occupy bunker to north of Dmitri Gate (will have use of a Ural, and the BRDM-AT)
[B]Charlie Squad:[/B] occupy bunker east of Hill 346, as well as the Artillery nest; cover Delta while they destroy Su-25s; provide fire support on orders from Wizard (will have use of a Ural, and the second BRDM)
[B]Delta Squad:[/B] destruction of Su-25s, occupy bunker south of Hangers when finished (will have use of remaining Ural, and an armed UAZ as well as access to C4/firing devices)
[B]Shocker:[/B] provide logistical support on orders from Wizard (will have use of the three Utility Urals, and a UAZ)
[B]Pegasus 1:[/B] destruction of Mi-17s; provide CAS on orders from Wizard; provide reconnaissance (will have joint use of a UAZ w/ Pegasus 2, and an Mi-24D)
[B]Pegasus 2:[/B] destruction of Mi-6s; provide CAS on orders from Wizard; provide reconnaissance (will have joint use of a UAZ w/ Pegasus 1, and remaining Mi-24D)
[B]Lancer:[/B] occupy bunker with Alpha (will have use of a T-72)
[B]Titan:[/B] occupy bunker with Delta (will have use of remaining T-72)
[B]Sierra:[/B] occupy bunker at Hill 350, with Wizard and Zero (will have use of remaining UAZ)[/QUOTE]
Feel free to poke holes in it. Let's come up with something that'll actually work.
[QUOTE=FuriousG;49702401]I don't know if you guys have done a Radio training session yet, but it may be worth trying to organize it.
It would probably be a good thing for FPARMA to start leaning further toward efficient use of Radios and teaching people to avoid crosschatter and unnecessary transmissions. There was a lot of complaints about misuse, a̶n̶d̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶l̶e̶ ̶c̶h̶i̶l̶d̶p̶r̶o̶o̶f̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶g̶r̶e̶a̶t̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶a̶l̶l [I](edit: maybe that's not such a great idea)[/I], you may still get people who slot into important roles and blog a lot.
What would be bad would be is if everyone crunched down hard on that behavior on radios and started going full no-fun-allowed mode and telling people to shut the fuck up for laughing or making a quick quip or something over the long range. That kind of stuff is fine, because you know, we are here to to have fun.
[editline]9th February 2016[/editline]
I gotchu bro[/QUOTE]
We did have a training last week where we talked a bit about radios and radio usage, but many people don't and won't turn up to these because "I don't need training, I'm not a shitter" (they may or may not be right, but hey, it's their free time so they can do whatever they want).
The trainings are good for catching up new and enthusiastic players though. The cluttered short range problem can be dealt with locally on the spot when it happens. Never had an issue with this in my squads. Or if I did then I told them to shut it.
I've said this before, and while I agree we do need to fix a lot. Lets make sure we don't go too far in the other direction and lose the casual aspect that makes this community great.
[QUOTE=The Rifleman;49701644]Having a designated lr radio man doesn't sound like a bad idea, nor is limiting radios to the squad. I would also like the respawn-instakill options on. It kinda ruins it for me when i get peppered by 1000 bullets and still live. I think having less radios, going at a slower pace, and making dying an actual consequence will improve things.[/QUOTE]
I've tested this too many times to know for a fact that it's a horrible idea, don't ever do this outside ww2/nam mishs
[QUOTE=inebriaticxp;49701863]I always like less radios but in general I keep that to themed missions like ww2 and shit
Isn't there a function in ace where you can listen to your 343 but can't transmit?[/QUOTE]
No, and we also wouldn't use it. The 343 is not the problem
I think organizing training and hosting it regularly would help improve the aspect of just having to know what you're doing.
[QUOTE=Poik12;49700915]Hey, Robert from the a3g containmant zone
We have been consulting the hivemind and have a suggestion with how to fix the radio shitstorm that has become apparent with the previous op
The first and most difficult option is to modify the culture of how FParma approaches radio use.
Particularly on a squad-level, there is a severe misuse and abuse (blogging) over the short range squad radios and a general sense of confusion in reference to radio channels and who belongs where.
a3g for the most part is pretty tame in blogging and abusing radios, but with 64 players good-faith and reminding players not to blog may simply not be enough, so the second option which we are endorsing further is the Alphamancer solution.
Simply put, Fire-team leaders, squad leaders and medics would be the -only- people in a squad who have access to a short range radio. The first reaction to that is lolno, but such a move had proved in a3g to increase the quality of squadplay and double the importance of fire-team leaders, removing them from their position as a glorified grenadier.
By making use of the fire-team system, local chat will be more than enough to keep the individual soldier in contact with his fire-team leader, and in turn the FTL will be kept in contact with his SQL.
This system is not completely perfect however, if a fire-team leader goes down a significant distance away from the squad, it would be a challenge to get this information to someone who can amend it. However, if we cannot fundamentally change how the group operates and respects things like the radio system, then we will simply have to child-proof it so it no longer presents itself as a problem.
the hivemind's two cents[/QUOTE]
how to get people to stop blogging: tell them to shut the fuck up. limiting radios from these people isn't going to stop them from yelling in to your ear.
[QUOTE=The Rifleman;49701644]Having a designated lr radio man doesn't sound like a bad idea, nor is limiting radios to the squad. I would also like the respawn-instakill options on. It kinda ruins it for me when i get peppered by 1000 bullets and still live. I think having less radios, going at a slower pace, and making dying an actual consequence will improve things.[/QUOTE]
short answer
no
[QUOTE=neuromancer;49702589]answered.[/QUOTE]
???
[QUOTE=SFArial;49703679]Never had an issue with this in my squads. Or if I did then I told them to shut it.[/QUOTE]
this is the way to do it
[QUOTE=Cuel;49703938]I've tested this too many times to know for a fact that it's a horrible idea, don't ever do this outside ww2/nam mishs [/QUOTE]
I've had some success with this, but definitely don't do it as standard.
The reason so little people turned up for the training is because you didn't plan in ahead and because the times kept switching, people have things to do besides arma so try to plan one at least a week away.
also because we would be training for a videogame - hard to get people to do
[editline]9th February 2016[/editline]
i'm in for anything if it works - if that involves spending an evening talking on radio then so be it
[editline]9th February 2016[/editline]
if that involves dressing as a radio goblin mascot and teaching people the dangers of radio misuse, so be it
-snip-
Honestly I don't think it matters if people who sign up for lesser roles don't attend radio training. Just tell them to not blather as much if their radio transmissions are longer than 15 seconds.
in all honesty, as long as everyone's having fun that's the important thing
i mean, if we were hyper proficient at playing arma, but didn't have any fun - i wouldn't play with you guys at all
if we were hyper proficient at fucking up rather than playing arma but it was fun, i'd still play
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49704302]in all honesty, as long as everyone's having fun that's the important thing
i mean, if we were hyper proficient at playing arma, but didn't have any fun - i wouldn't play with you guys at all
if we were hyper proficient at fucking up rather than playing arma but it was fun, i'd still play[/QUOTE]
The hyper proficient at fucking up bit is consistent, that's not the problem. The problem is the having fun part. In Comfy Downtime, fun is usually not a problem. In ops however, it's all over the place, especially when people have a different idea of having fun at the expense of others.
[QUOTE=SFArial;49704344]when people have a different idea of having fun at the expense of others.[/QUOTE]
i think we're going to run into this a lot as the community gets ~fuckin huge~
to be honest, with 50-60 players i'm surprised it isn't worse
but this sunday's OP......we're going to make it special boys
im packing FLOWCHARTS
-snip-
That's how it works in real life.
Cars act just like paddle steamers just on the road instead of the water
[editline]9th February 2016[/editline]
In all seriousness I don't know I guess it's just a bi thing, had it happen in a comfy downtime before.
Will there be resupply during the mission? For the Tanks, Helis and Infantry?
Also I'm down for some training, but I have very limited time during the weekends and FP ARMA has a tendency to drag on with prep when it comes to certain things (such as 30-45 minutes for a CD mission to start because people are being spergs with their loadouts), if start times during weekday activities actually start on time then I'm more inclined to join.
Sunday Ops are a bit of a special case when it comes to starting because of the large amount of players and other factors.
Would be rad if once/twice a week at difference times we can host a variety of training activities:
[B]Radios[/B]
[B]General Infantry Training[/B] - What to do, where to look, how to call out targets, covering fire ect
[B]Role Specific Infantry Training: AT [/B] - AT launcher training (how to use different types, ranging, understanding optics), backblast and where to hit an armoured target for maximum effectiveness
[B]Role Specific Infantry Training: Medic [/B] - Understanding how to use ACE medical, how to treat minor and major (downed players) wounds, prioritizing patients before, during and after an engagement
[B]Role Specific Infantry Training: Advanced Medic [/B] - Training in advanced ACE medical
[B]Role Specific Infantry Training: Engineer[/B] - How to use a variety of engineering tools/devices, how to repair, disarming and arming mines and explosives
[B]Role Specific Infantry Training: Sniper/Spotter [/B] - How to use sniper rifles, ranging and understanding how to use the various equipment
[B]Leadership Basic[/B] - FLTs
[B]Leadership Intermediate [/B]- Squad Leaders and Crew Commanders
[B]Leadership Advanced[/B] - Actual, Platoon Command and Company Commander
[B]Formations[/B] - Which ones to use, how to form them and spacing
[B]Urban Warfare [/B]- Clearing buildings, moving street to street and so on
[B]Woodland (lots of forests, green and foliage) Warfare[/B] - How to move across open terrain, utilizing limit cover such as trees and rocks, engaging in open terrain
[B]Vehicles - General[/B] - Utilising vehicle features (Headlights, Engine on/off), how to use speed limiters, basic navigating and crew roles (Commander, Gunner, Driver)
[B]Vehicles - Light[/B] - Familiarisation with light vehicles (Jeeps, UAZs, Humvees, Technicals ect) and their weapons.
[B]Vehicles - Medium[/B] - Familiarisation with medium vehicles (APCs, BTRs, BRDMs, Bradleys ect), their features (smoke screen, commander seat and gunner's seat) and weapons (Using different ammo types, ranging, what weapon to use on what targets and different view types such as using thermals)
[B]Vehicles - Heavy[/B] - Familiarisation with heavy vehicles (Tanks, Leopards, T-72, Abrams ect), their features (smoke screen, commander seat and gunner's seat) and weapons (Using different ammo types, ranging, what weapon to use on what targets and different view types such as using thermals).
[B]Vehicles Advanced[/B] - Learning advanced features and tactics when using vehicles (would mainly be for the medium/heavy vehicles), overpressure, hull-down positions ect
I mean that's just an idea, a lot of these can be done within an hour or less if done properly. Hell mission makers could even create scenarios that could be placed on the server such as:
[B]Vehicle Training[/B] - Have a variety of vehicles (depending on whether it is light, medium or heavy training) placed down and respawn as soon as they are destroyed (Or just Zeus). This can be done on an airfield/airport where there is a bunch of open and flat space. Have static and moving targets that can be used to practice weapons on.
[B]Infantry Training[/B] - Have a scene made for the intended training (AT has lots of static vehicles, maybe a few that an instructor can drive to use as moving target practice - Engineers have static objectives to blow up, a minefield to practice disarming and disable vehicles to repair ect)
[B]Leadership Roles[/B] - Have a small objective planned that can be reset? Such as clearing a small village, can be used for when Squad Leaders and FLTs need practice in ordering squads.
It doesn't really solve the whole radio structure issue but I thought I would pitch in with an idea about training. Just need people who are competent in the following areas to actually lead the training.
I wrote far too much.
[QUOTE=Cuel;49703938]I've tested this too many times to know for a fact that it's a horrible idea, don't ever do this outside ww2/nam mishs[/QUOTE]
How so? Squad leaders are currently performing a balancing act of ten individuals on their shortrange while also having to hear the screaming over the long range that happens in these larger ops. By delegating the long range to someone else, the squadlead can stay focused hearing what his own squad has to say, while his RTO can tell him only what is relevant to him, instead of having to hear absolutely everything. When you have 4+ Elements on the long range it becomes clogged very quickly and there is little reason for a squadlead to have to listen to that all of the time.
You could even give it to a fireteam lead we don't need to put another person in a squad.
[QUOTE=Fippe;49703953]how to get people to stop blogging: tell them to shut the fuck up. limiting radios from these people isn't going to stop them from yelling in to your ear.[/QUOTE]
Now you see it's responses like these that really irk me. A squad lead simply should not have to tell the squad to stop blogging, because it should be happening in the first place.
And yes, limiting radios would stop just that, because a radio is a direct and unstoppable 'hey you're going to hear the useless crap I'm going to tell you and you can't stop me!' Perhaps you guys don't realize how bad you have it, but members of a3g have noticed an epidemic of people continuously steeping on each others toes on the short range, to the point where it's a better idea to call things out over local so at least someone will hear it
Now if you don't like the suggestions I understand, but you cannot simply disregard this as a non-issue. If it weren't an issue people wouldn't be talking about it. There is no reason to unnecessarily stonewall suggestions unless you have some serious concerns or can provide alternatives solutions.
to give poik some credence, there was a mission where i got so sick of the long range that i gave it to tinter
best decision i made all mission, tinter did all the long range dick sucking and i just told the squad what to do and relayed orders through tinter
-snip-
start by holding a summary execution for anyone who utters the words "we'll sort out the radios in game"
I'd be glad to take do a session on MAT and HAT teams/Launchers perhaps this weekend if people would be up for it
And if people would actually put them down in missions
I do agree that we need radio training for everyone though
-snip-
[QUOTE=FuriousG;49704373]why does this happen
[video=youtube;5BR1aglfpTo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BR1aglfpTo[/video][/QUOTE]
had this happen to me too
[QUOTE=Dominic0904;49704558]-snip-
I wrote far too much.[/QUOTE]
Yes, yes you did. These are nice ideas, but most of these are not necessary or specialize too much.
[QUOTE=Poik12;49704562]How so? Squad leaders are currently performing a balancing act of ten individuals on their shortrange while also having to hear the screaming over the long range that happens in these larger ops. By delegating the long range to someone else, the squadlead can stay focused hearing what his own squad has to say, while his RTO can tell him only what is relevant to him, instead of having to hear absolutely everything. When you have 4+ Elements on the long range it becomes clogged very quickly and there is little reason for a squadlead to have to listen to that all of the time.
You could even give it to a fireteam lead we don't need to put another person in a squad.[/QUOTE]
SLs are overburdened because TLs (which is one per squad currently) don't do jack 90% of the time. The TL should be interacting with the squad directly. By delegating the LR work you also increase the response time to critical messages and threats. In the 7Cav every trooper has a short range, and the SLs have both a short range and a LR. It's not really an alien concept, and the radio chatter isn't any less intense than over here. Granted, people use the radio less for banter, but the traffic intensity itself doesn't differ in an active engagement.
[QUOTE=Poik12;49704562]Now you see it's responses like these that really irk me. A squad lead simply should not have to tell the squad to stop blogging, because it should be happening in the first place.
And yes, limiting radios would stop just that, because a radio is a direct and unstoppable 'hey you're going to hear the useless crap I'm going to tell you and you can't stop me!' Perhaps you guys don't realize how bad you have it, but members of a3g have noticed an epidemic of people continuously steeping on each others toes on the short range, to the point where it's a better idea to call things out over local so at least someone will hear it
Now if you don't like the suggestions I understand, but you cannot simply disregard this as a non-issue. If it weren't an issue people wouldn't be talking about it. There is no reason to unnecessarily stonewall suggestions unless you have some serious concerns or can provide alternatives solutions.[/QUOTE]
Stepping on eachother, imo, is the result of switching from TFAR to ACRE. I don't think everyone adjusted properly yet to half-duplex. While this is a legit issue, it will only be fixed as people become more experienced with it. Obviously, training can fix this as well, but we are an open group so we can't expect absolutely everyone to be on the same level. Especially since this is such a low-level problem in the hierarchy. As long as LR won't have this issue, I'm happy.
[QUOTE=FuriousG;49704627]It would yeah, but there are better solutions.
While personally I reckon childproofing isn't a good idea, I do think that something should be done other than just telling people to be quiet so they stop blogging.
There are a load of different ways we can do this, here is just a few I could personally think of;
- Radio Training for proper radio procedure
- Telling all leaders during the pre-ops brief to keep reminding their subordinates to not misuse radios
- Telling everyone on the map screen to not misuse radios
- Telling people not to blog if they start spamming irrelevant stuff over comms over and over
- Squad Leads confiscating radios if people misuse them too much
- & more
The most important thing though is to remember that it's about fun, and that we should avoid getting extreme and confiscating radios or telling people off for the occasional bit of cheekiness over comms.[/QUOTE]
See, FuriousG has the right idea. I can agree with everything here.
Radio discipline is honestly as simple as "does the entire squad [I]need[/I] to hear it? no? don't use the radio then", at least at a squad level. Unless you're directly being asked by the SL something that needs answered the only times the general squad member should be using the radio for is for something that needs to come to the attention of the Squad Leader and/or the entire squad immediately, i.e. if an enemy is spotted or a particular member of the squad is down - and preferably not when you're within local distance, though I've found that it's safer to use the radio even then simply because the radio does not adhere to positional audio (so everyone in the squad can hear it at the same level).
I don't really see many issues with radios in my squads, then again that's probably because I tend to be in squads with the same people and we tend to be close enough to allow local between at least half of the squad to work at any one time. Also we tend to actually have the above noted discipline. Getting people to get used to this would be a good idea and it shouldn't directly impact any fun at all, unless you find it fun to waffle on in squad radio for some reason.
For when ever there is any training, can we get someone to record and upload it? I'd volunteer, but I still have exams and my framerate is absolutely terrible regardless of recording or not.
-snip-
[QUOTE=diwako;49704758]For when ever there is any training, can we get someone to record and upload it? I'd volunteer, but I still have exams and my framerate is absolutely terrible regardless of recording or not.[/QUOTE]
Well, I am recording all my gameplay I ever do, so if I'm part of the training, I can make sure to upload the entire thing.
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