ARMA Series (I, II, III) - v. Waiting For 3DEN Edition - Games

[QUOTE=Destroyox;49695731]I've read through all the intel, and I don't think we're going to make it boys. Only if ARMA incendiary weapons weren't so shit, we would have a chance. WHERE'S NAPALM WHEN YOU NEED IT?[/QUOTE] it'll be fine. fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine.

[QUOTE=Fippe;49696410]it'll be fine. fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine.[/QUOTE] I don't know, this seems like a Khe Sanh situation, and the only way they didn't get overrun there is because they had tons of artillery and napalm just hammering the attackers. We don't really have that.

[QUOTE=Destroyox;49696463]I don't know, this seems like a Khe Sahn situation, and the only way they didn't get overrun there is because they had tons of artillery and napalm just hammering the attackers. We don't really have that.[/QUOTE] We've got Hind D's, tanks and mortars. It's more like an actual defensible situation, got hardware to do that.

[QUOTE=Fippe;49696481]We've got Hind D's, tanks and mortars. It's more like an actual defensible situation, got hardware to do that.[/QUOTE] And they had howitzers from the base and a nearby firebase, mortars, airstrikes, carpet bombing, and some tanks most likely. Of course this isn't the exact same situation, but it just feels like we're doomed (which I'm fine with honestly, can't win them all).

[QUOTE=Destroyox;49696494]And they had howitzers from the base and a nearby firebase, mortars, airstrikes, carpet bombing, and some tanks most likely. Of course this isn't the exact same situation, but it just feels like we're doomed (which I'm fine with honestly, can't win them all).[/QUOTE] the winning condition is just "don't let the fuckers have our military hardware" optimally this means we hold the airfield and all our nice toys less optimally we blow everything up and fuck off in the least optimal case we die trying to blow everything up [editline]trust in the strongest ice fairy tactics[/editline] also AI is a lot less threatening foe than VCs during a night

[QUOTE=Fippe;49696534]the winning condition is just "don't let the fuckers have our military hardware" optimally this means we hold the airfield and all our nice toys less optimally we blow everything up and fuck off in the least optimal case we die trying to blow everything up[/QUOTE] Something tells me we're not going to get to leave. At least ARMA last stands are fucking cool.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOvOHrTOmEs[/media] got last night's panzer 1 action here

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caIV4hBUB-E[/media]

"Squaddie Rocka has panicked"

[QUOTE=SFArial;49697003][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caIV4hBUB-E[/media][/QUOTE] Like I mentioned before the mission started, I dunno how to be gunner.

I have had some guys talk to me about our command structure, mostly in relation to it being bad, what do Y'all think about how we do things currently? Should we develop a standard command structure? We also need to get a better radio structure, squad level is a-okay but at the platoon level we don't need 4 different channels, it just makes it impossible to get through to people if they're on the wrong channel - again, please discuss below

standard radio structure would be very nice, as well as some easy guide to using radios I didn't even know you have different blocks and buttons and shit on the 343 mission maker should probably work with whoever is leading the op on placing markers on the map or in the briefing so people know which channel to jump on immediately acre not breaking every single time would be nice but I don't really care whether we use acre or tfar as long as it works

1. Have standard Radio channel setup that is consistent across every future mission. 2. Don't have multiple command channels 3. DONT have multiple command channels (Yesterday was a good example on why Splitting LR into multiple channels was a terrible idea) 4. Force mission makers to always have the correct radio channels in the briefing. (There's already a radio channel tab. Make sure the values in there are correct) 5. Don't let PLT make up a channel structure on the fly.

the problem is that in nearly every game i've played, command has nearly always been a null-entity essentially command needs to be played by someone who doesn't want to have fun, who wants to sit down in a truck looking at a map screen telling everyone where to go and whose dick to suck (when the mission requires it) squad leaders make almost all of the decisions except for "which direction in which we're fighting", which means that command is basically the person that tells you at the start where to go, but after that it's a free-for-all the reality which squad leaders live in is far removed from the reality that command exist in assets are almost always criminally mismanaged, logistics are always fucked over by having the worst job in the game with nearly zero direction other than when people scream at them that they need repairs (guilty) there's never a plan for when things go wrong, no positions to fall back to regroup, repair and heal - you are to slog towards that position until you die and then try again - if your vehicle explodes better hope that zeus sorts you out or you're FUCKED i don't think i've played where we've had a forward base that we can go to for repairs and rearm - whereas when i played the shit out of project reality even with 200 pubbies we ALWAYS had a forward base that we stuffed all of our shit into because when you died, you needed guns and shit each squad acts as an independent entity, interacting when they absolutely have to, but otherwise slogging it out on their own - basically the only points where people act in unison is right at the very start when people are forced to drive in a convoy, otherwise it's go deal with your own separate objectives chucklefucks hope to see you at the ending picture!!!!!! note: this is not the fault of anyone playing command or SQL, it's just the way that videogames make people play yo people believe that they're independent, main characters who can charge around doing everything, when the reality is you got no ammo, you got no support have fun with that BMP that shwacked your entire squad and your only reinforcements are 1 mile away trying to work out how to put the tire back on a car

With the increase in players (bloody refugees) we defo need some more structure. Otherwise is just turns into a clusterfuck. Also, physics: [video]https://youtu.be/XLFgJOnpIoE[/video]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49697270]the problem is that in nearly every game i've played, command has nearly always been a null-entity essentially command needs to be played by someone who doesn't want to have fun, who wants to sit down in a truck looking at a map screen telling everyone where to go and whose dick to suck (when the mission requires it) squad leaders make almost all of the decisions except for "which direction in which we're fighting", which means that command is basically the person that tells you at the start where to go, but after that it's a free-for-all the reality which squad leaders live in is far removed from the reality that command exist in assets are almost always criminally mismanaged, logistics are always fucked over by having the worst job in the game with nearly zero direction other than when people scream at them that they need repairs (guilty) there's never a plan for when things go wrong, no positions to fall back to regroup, repair and heal - you are to slog towards that position until you die and then try again - if your vehicle explodes better hope that zeus sorts you out or you're FUCKED i don't think i've played where we've had a forward base that we can go to for repairs and rearm - whereas when i played the shit out of project reality even with 200 pubbies we ALWAYS had a forward base that we stuffed all of our shit into because when you died, you needed guns and shit each squad acts as an independent entity, interacting when they absolutely have to, but otherwise slogging it out on their own - basically the only points where people act in unison is right at the very start when people are forced to drive in a convoy, otherwise it's go deal with your own separate objectives chucklefucks hope to see you at the ending picture!!!!!! note: this is not the fault of anyone playing command or SQL, it's just the way that videogames make people play yo people believe that they're independent, main characters who can charge around doing everything, when the reality is you got no ammo, you got no support have fun with that BMP that shwacked your entire squad and your only reinforcements are 1 mile away trying to work out how to put the tire back on a car[/QUOTE] Your right in most of this, it's something that me and others need to work on a bit. [QUOTE=Dominic0904;49697305]With the increase in players (bloody refugees) we defo need some more structure. Otherwise is just turns into a clusterfuck.[/QUOTE] There's no point in structure if people won't follow it

Standardizing the structure plan to some 80-player company might also be a good idea. First off, Company Command. It should be 3 guys, the Commander, the 2IC/UAV, and the JTAC. CC is in the same 117 channel with P1L, P2L, RCN/SNP, and 2IC. JTAC shares his own channel with air assets. Have it so that each Infantry Platoon holds about 10 grunts in Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, and Delta, and split these two between Platoon 1 and Platoon 2, which should be 1 or 2 soldiers each. Each platoon should have its own 148 channel to communicate between squads and elements. Inter-squad chatter, such as fire teams and vehicles, can be handled by 343 radio. Deeper radio structures might mandate multiple 343 channels for each squad. Add Platoon Support Units to each Platoon. This is a big wild card. It can either be an auxiliary squad in the form of Echo and Foxtrot, or you could add Mortars, MANPADs, Tanks, AAA, MEDEVAC, LOGI, etc. Each one of PSU should be somewhat identical, be hooked up to their platoon 148, and have their own 343 channel. Balance these out until you reach a solid 60 in players. Recon and Sniper elements should be attached to Platoon 1 or 2 whenever possible, though Company could find use in them. JTAC should be the only person controlling air assets, unless he's down, in which case it's passed on to either 2IC or CC. If they're all dead, IPL1 gets the control of air assets. If the platoon leaders are dead, first alphabetic squad leader gets control of air assets. You should also have alternative squad structures built for each situation. Mechanized should have an FTL lead the infantry element while the SQL doubles as IFV commander. Motorized can have two fire teams in a truck or split in two cars. Foot-soldier Infantry is a full squad, no fire team. Recon should be no bigger than 4 men. [editline]8th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49697270]the problem is that in nearly every game i've played, command has nearly always been a null-entity[/QUOTE] It's mostly because there's a huge disconnect between platoon authority and company itself. People forget that attacks should always be coordinated, and even if the squad leader got word of how the mission should be handled, he should always wait for orders from Platoon to move ahead. And Platoon has to hear approval from Company first. Yesterday was a very uncoordinated effort and it really shows since it doesn't feel like Platoon 1 and Platoon 2 were working in sync at all throughout the op, mainly because of constant comms breakdowns and because botched structuring dictated that the frontal assault force had more tanks than soldiers... and then got bogged trying to take a hill next to a city. And due to that the rear echelon Platoon(me) was in control of the only logistics and recon team, which led to people constantly having issues with forwarding calls one to another. And don't even get me started on air support not having a purpose. I guess they carried recon around for a while.

[QUOTE=croguy;49697322] Add Platoon Support Units to each Platoon. This is a big wild card. It can either be an auxiliary squad in the form of Echo and Foxtrot, or you could add Mortars, MANPADs, Tanks, AAA, MEDEVAC, LOGI, etc. Each one of PSU should be somewhat identical, be hooked up to their platoon 148, and have their own 343 channel.[/QUOTE] i don't agree with this logi needs to be managed separately because nobody can be expected to manage motherfuckers needing repairs and rearm while at the same time having to co-ordinate squads shooting nerds (and nobody does, logi gets fucked in the arse and command spends most of their attention on the guys gatting cunts) get some extremely masochistic fuck to manage the entirety of logistics, taking requests from the other guys in command when needed - at the start of the game where nobody needs repairs or ammo, !!!!!go and set up a logistics forward base when it's that kind of mission!!!!! spend the first 20 minutes of the mission just driving shit to this forward base, crates, vehicles, medical supplies, ammo and mark it on the mark with a big dildo - that way, everyone knows if they go here, they WILL get treatment (no more of this 'we have the logi-truck 5 metres behind the tank that just got fucking smoked - if you need emergency logi then you call them over to you from the base) that's what we did in project reality ~back in the day~ and even with the most braindead of pubbies it worked [editline]8th February 2016[/editline] rest of your post i agree with tho

Maybe you guys oughta write it down somewhere more official than a post in this thread. Expand the Guides section on the FPARMA signup site?

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49697340]i don't agree with this logi needs to be managed separately because nobody can be expected to manage motherfuckers needing repairs and rearm while at the same time having to co-ordinate squads shooting nerds (and nobody does, logi gets fucked in the arse and command spends most of their attention on the guys gatting cunts get some extremely masochistic fuck to manage the entirety of logistics, taking requests from the other guys in command when needed - at the start of the game where nobody needs repairs or ammo, !!!!!go and set up a logistics forward base when it's that kind of mission!!!!! spend the first 20 minutes of the mission just driving shit to this forward base, crates, vehicles, medical supplies, ammo and mark it on the mark with a big dildo - that way, everyone knows if they go here, they WILL get treatment [editline]8th February 2016[/editline] rest of your post i agree with tho[/QUOTE] That's the issue though, if logistics are only in control of the company, you need to have Company Commander designate multiple RP/FOBs that [B][U][I]EVERYONE[/I][/U][/B] will respect because there's no way in hell a company level logistics team will be able to hold a grip over unfucking people across the whole AO. So it's either C-FOB LOGI, or we have one LOGI for each platoon.

[QUOTE=croguy;49697322]Standardizing the structure plan to some 80-player company might also be a good idea. First off, Company Command. It should be 3 guys, the Commander, the 2IC/UAV, and the JTAC. CC is in the same 117 channel with P1L, P2L, RCN/SNP, and 2IC. JTAC shares his own channel with air assets. Have it so that each Infantry Platoon holds about 10 grunts in Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, and Delta, and split these two between Platoon 1 and Platoon 2, which should be 1 or 2 soldiers each. Each platoon should have its own 148 channel to communicate between squads and elements. Inter-squad chatter, such as fire teams and vehicles, can be handled by 343 radio. Deeper radio structures might mandate multiple 343 channels for each squad. Add Platoon Support Units to each Platoon. This is a big wild card. It can either be an auxiliary squad in the form of Echo and Foxtrot, or you could add Mortars, MANPADs, Tanks, AAA, MEDEVAC, LOGI, etc. Each one of PSU should be somewhat identical, be hooked up to their platoon 148, and have their own 343 channel. Balance these out until you reach a solid 60 in players. Recon and Sniper elements should be attached to Platoon 1 or 2 whenever possible, though Company could find use in them. JTAC should be the only person controlling air assets, unless he's down, in which case it's passed on to either 2IC or CC. If they're all dead, IPL1 gets the control of air assets. If the platoon leaders are dead, first alphabetic squad leader gets control of air assets. You should also have alternative squad structures built for each situation. Mechanized should have an FTL lead the infantry element while the SQL doubles as IFV commander. Motorized can have two fire teams in a truck or split in two cars. Foot-soldier Infantry is a full squad, no fire team. Recon should be no bigger than 4 men. [editline]8th February 2016[/editline] It's mostly because there's a huge disconnect between platoon authority and company itself. People forget that attacks should always be coordinated, and even if the squad leader got word of how the mission should be handled, he should always wait for orders from Platoon to move ahead. And Platoon has to hear approval from Company first. Yesterday was a very uncoordinated effort and it really shows since it doesn't feel like Platoon 1 and Platoon 2 were working in sync at all throughout the op, mainly because of constant comms breakdowns and because botched structuring dictated that the frontal assault force had more tanks than soldiers... and then got bogged trying to take a hill next to a city. And due to that the rear echelon Platoon(me) was in control of the only logistics and recon team, which led to people constantly having issues with forwarding calls one to another. And don't even get me started on air support not having a purpose. I guess they carried recon around for a while.[/QUOTE] So who wants to draw this stuff? We might be able to get it implemented in a mission but we need someone to make a visual guide Also need to work something out for airmobile infantry and armoured formations

[QUOTE=Mallow234;49697352]So who wants to draw this stuff? We might be able to get it implemented in a mission but we need someone to make a visual guide Also need to work something out for airmobile infantry and armoured formations[/QUOTE] Airmobile should have full squads, with pilots responding to squad JTAC or platoon JTAC, as it requires a more intense comms presence. Also I'll see about cooking up a radio net in photoshop. This shit has been pissing me off for too long.

[QUOTE=croguy;49697350]That's the issue though, if logistics are only in control of the company, you need to have Company Commander designate multiple RP/FOBs that [B][U][I]EVERYONE[/I][/U][/B] will respect because there's no way in hell a company level logistics team will be able to hold a grip over unfucking people across the whole AO. So it's either C-FOB LOGI, or we have one LOGI for each platoon.[/QUOTE] this is more a problem of logi being understaffed than a problem with the layout i think - if you have enough people in logi, then a single FOB that sends out teams when required but otherwise deals with shit that comes in will be enough i mean, how many logi requests do we get? when you have embedded logi, you might as well have them in the squad because they're going to be interacting with those guys all the time and i'm sure the platoon/squad would rather have dudes that just fight as well as logi - which is the current problem, we have no dedicated logi because they're almost always embedded

Also I feel like we could do with more fire support assets, be it integrated Mortars (imma make a 60mm mortar soon Maybe) or company artillery This is mostly for smoke cover though, not so much as actual artillery support, seeing as 82 and 155 slaughter infantry Could attach it to logi I agree with what Cloak said about FARPs, logi teams need more ability to actually do their job

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49697364]this is more a problem of logi being understaffed than a problem with the layout i think - if you have enough people in logi, then a single FOB that sends out teams when required but otherwise deals with shit that comes in will be enough i mean, how many logi requests do we get? when you have embedded logi, you might as well have them in the squad because they're going to be interacting with those guys all the time and i'm sure the platoon/squad would rather have dudes that just fight as well as logi - which is the current problem, we have no dedicated logi because they're almost always embedded[/QUOTE] I'd say a LOGI element composed of two teams which assemble an FOB and move out with their assets to corresponding situations might be the best in that case. Issue is finding 4-8 people crazy enough to do it. Of course, you could always staff Company, Artillery, Logi, and some other assets into a single assembled FOB so they don't feel lonely.

Splitting Logistics into their own LR channel sounds like a good idea but it's actually an utterly terrible idea, and the last op gave us the perfect example of why. The medic chopper was shot up by something and we had to RTB, except when we got back the logistics squad was nowhere to be found AND wasn't responding on channel 3. We decided to take a second Merlin onsite (apparently probably belonging to the Logistics squad? why didn't they take this in the first place as well as a truck??) and proceeded to get ARMA'd, leaving us stranded at base with no-one to repair our Merlin and another Merlin lying planted in a fucking fence. We had to wait until Zeus stopped doing whatever to repair our Merlin. This is also an issue we have with Logistics as it is - yes, logi can be a boring job (so can a heliborne medical team yo), but we always seem to end with two outcomes - Logi is fully staffed, but is bogged down or stretched thin between each chucklefuck squad asking for repairs due to their command not being centralized or them simply being ignored until someone has screamed into the radio enough that they need repairs, OR Logi is down x people and it becomes even more of an issue because they have to manage with reduced numbers - especially an issue when they're given too many assets as opposed to not enough. Even with a good Logistics squad leader and a good Command structure, at some point we either forget to properly utilize Logi until it's too late or the rest of the company becomes stretched so hilariously wide that actually using Logi in the first place becomes a game of hide and seek. I don't think I ever actually saw the Logi squad broken apart from Command while in the UAV in yesterday's op, yet when I finally saw Command again in person (after the medical team was called to what we believed to just be Anton), they were down and the logistics were nowhere to be found.

[QUOTE=Taggart;49697372]Splitting Logistics into their own LR channel sounds like a good idea but it's actually an utterly terrible idea, and the last op gave us the perfect example of why. The medic chopper was shot up by something and we had to RTB, except when we got back the logistics squad was nowhere to be found AND wasn't responding on channel 3. We decided to take a second Merlin onsite (apparently probably belonging to the Logistics squad? why didn't they take this in the first place as well as a truck??) and proceeded to get ARMA'd, leaving us stranded at base with no-one to repair our Merlin and another Merlin lying planted in a fucking fence. We had to wait until Zeus stopped doing whatever to repair our Merlin. This is also an issue we have with Logistics as it is - yes, logi can be a boring job (so can a heliborne medical team yo), but we always seem to end with two outcomes - Logi is fully staffed, but is bogged down or stretched thin between each chucklefuck squad asking for repairs due to their command not being centralized or them simply being ignored until someone has screamed into the radio enough that they need repairs, OR Logi is down x people and it becomes even more of an issue because they have to manage with reduced numbers - especially an issue when they're given too many assets as opposed to not enough. Even with a good Logistics squad leader and a good Command structure, at some point we either forget to properly utilize Logi until it's too late or the rest of the company becomes stretched so hilariously wide that actually using Logi in the first place becomes a game of hide and seek. I don't think I ever actually saw the Logi squad broken apart from Command while in the UAV in yesterday's op, yet when I finally saw Command again in person (after the medical team was called to what we believed to just be Anton), they were down and the logistics were nowhere to be found.[/QUOTE] agree impossible to deliver good logistics when people are spread so wide that nobody can actually get to the requests ALSO [B]don't take people from logi squads to fill in gaps in combat squads goddamn - if you disband the logi squad entirely then you fuck over everyone, if you reduce it to 1, 2 or 3 people then you basically ruin the mission for them and make them unable to deliver effective logistics when it is far more important to have that, than a guy who is uncomfortable and unhappy with his role as something combat related [/B]if a squad is unable to function because it's missing vital parts, then disassemble that squad rather than life-supporting it with people from other roles also the point of doing this is to have fun, forcing someone to play something that they didn't want to play is definitely not something that you want to do

split the channels when it makes sense, e.g the mission on helvantis when me and whitefox had a 117f and 148, it was easy to switch between and didn't clutter the radios either also i've received several tips for making ACRE work better, croguy i'll need your mission once you're done so that i can set it up [editline]8th February 2016[/editline] i would like to try the RC branch of acre again but it's a bitch to switch between [editline]8th February 2016[/editline] TFAR is abandoned and ACRE will get a rewrite in Intercept once Nou finishes it with the rest of the ACE guys

[QUOTE=Mallow234;49697366]Also I feel like we could do with more fire support assets, be it integrated Mortars (imma make a 60mm mortar soon Maybe) or company artillery This is mostly for smoke cover though, not so much as actual artillery support, seeing as 82 and 155 slaughter infantry Could attach it to logi I agree with what Cloak said about FARPs, logi teams need more ability to actually do their job[/QUOTE] Logi Building FARP's would be amazing. I could look into porting my logi scripts for the job.

[QUOTE=kaukassus;49697431]Logi Building FARP's would be amazing. I could look into porting my logi scripts for the job.[/QUOTE] motherfucker if you get it so that logi can build proper bases with sandbag walls, supply crates, defensive positions and barbed wire i'll logi and i'll never play anything else