Dota 2 General Chat XXXII - 6.88 will make the ancient summon robot miners and TPs will be free
5,001 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Trixxter;50229867]Until e-sports is a globally recognised industry of sport, they'll never be classed as a "work" exception for a visa in majority of countries.[/QUOTE]
In the US, League of Legends is already recognized as a sport.
So there is precedent.
[QUOTE=chonks;50228420]Doesn't seem like that big of a deal tbh, since you could only deny the ranged creep of every second wave before anyway.[/QUOTE]
It's a big difference. Before at rank 3 (seen as the optimal skilling) you could deny the ranged creep of EVERY wave. Now you need to waste a skill point to raise it 4, which can't be used on Frost Blast, which reduces Lich's lane presence.
[editline]30th April 2016[/editline]
it's a much bigger nerf than you would think if you're doing an aggressive duo Lich on mid or offlane
I finally snapped my 8 game losing streak with TA. Thank goodness.
[QUOTE=Clovis;50231154]man just when i thought it was over for good, ftd just feed all these kills for no reason and now it looks so scary for them its not funny
[editline]30th April 2016[/editline]
oh i keep forgetting people still build linkens manta medusa. please if you want to lose a game, by all means follow that item build
[editline]30th April 2016[/editline]
nobody is even awake for this game RIP[/QUOTE]
What build is good now?
[QUOTE=Clovis;50231154]oh i keep forgetting people still build linkens manta medusa. please if you want to lose a game, by all means follow that item build[/QUOTE]
and what's exactly wrong with it?
and tbh, you're still gonna need like a Bfly/Mkb+Rapier to win as Medusa.
Rest 2-3 slots can be used for pretty much anything, why not Manta it's a damage item, but Linkens you might not need in late-game anymore.
[editline]30th April 2016[/editline]
Or did they make some drastic changes to Medusa?
Is Blademail a viable replacement for linkens on Medusa? It doesn't do anything against spells but the changes to blademail means it reflects full damage back even when manashield blocks shit, so it increases your damage output against enemies who attack you.
please build mjollnir on medusa its so good on her
On Medusa I usually go Mjolnir as a farming item, then decide weather or not to build Linkens based on enemy lineup (I almost never do). Then I go S+Y, Skadi, Butterfly, and Moon Shard. I never really liked Manta as an item; I've not seen any advantage on heroes that don't benefit from illusions. It's not like the illusions do much damage anyways. I would rather directly build things that make me stronger and/or deals more damage.
After the decrease on damage amp for MoM I am a firm believer in MoMdusa.
I've been going MoM into Maelstrom into whatever and either I'm Medusa and lose early or I'm Medusa and farm hard enough to win late
You farm hella fast and do super damage in skirmishes.
i like yasha skadi but i havent played medusa in awhile
[QUOTE=Clovis;50231801][img]http://i.imgur.com/dphsF1B.gif[/img]
[sp]no damage[/sp][/QUOTE]
That's because he has shit items? and 6 armor is something, PMS too.
Basically, he has 1 damage item (I consider manta that, but it does carry more utility over "real" dmg items like mkb etc.)
so good job, str treads why, and skadi. no wonder the damage is shit
plus, the Main medusa is not even attacking, what is the point? Troll?
[editline]1st May 2016[/editline]
also the splitshot is activated while shooting a single target lol
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50233177]That's because he has shit items? and 6 armor is something, PMS too.
Basically, he has 1 damage item (I consider manta that with the yasha in there). so good job, str treads why, and skadi.
plus, the Main medusa is not even attacking, what is even the point? Troll?
[editline]1st May 2016[/editline]
also the splitshot is activated while shooting a single target lol[/QUOTE]
what's the point of getting manta then?
the illus don't have mana shield
medusa doesn't have good base attack damage
it's just a trash item that's easily replaceable with something actually useful
same goes for linkens, don't get that shit, it's trash
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50233177]That's because he has shit items? and 6 armor is something, PMS too.
Basically, he has 1 damage item (I consider manta that with the yasha in there). so good job, str treads why, and skadi.
plus, the Main medusa is not even attacking, what is even the point? Troll?
[editline]1st May 2016[/editline]
also the splitshot is activated while shooting a single target lol[/QUOTE]
I shouldn't be engaging myself by responding to this post but I'm a fucking idiot so
1. Butterfly is the only Medusa-friendly item that you can fit into that build that will actually help your illusions, and even then they only get 8.4 attack damage (6.72 with splitshot on) and 30 attackspeed that won't make that 8.4/6.72 attack damage go far
2. Imagine the DPS that a level 25 hero with actual lategame armor will be taking. You know, like 20+ armor.
3. The point is that Manta is super underwhelming as a damage item, of course SB would take damage if Medusa was attacking. The fact that her illusions do that little damage to a [b]level fucking 1 hero[/b] is supposed to tell you that it's not going to do significant damage.
[QUOTE=Arktomys;50233217]what's the point of getting manta then?
the illus don't have mana shield
medusa doesn't have good base attack damage
it's just a trash item that's easily replaceable with something actually useful
same goes for linkens, don't get that shit, it's trash[/QUOTE]
you get it because the yasha part of it is good, yasha is a super good medusa item
instead of selling it, you get the manta, which has an ultimate orb (which is good for medusa she likes all stats)
its also a good farming item as you can send split shot illus down a lane
Also the Manta active costs 105 mana for an extremely small steroid, if you spent 95 more you have the potential to do [b]50% more damage to MULTIPLE enemy heroes[/b]
[editline]30th April 2016[/editline]
instead of like 1% more to a single hero
the illus can soak up dmg and eat up spells, and it can remove debuffs from you when activated, like global silence.
and it does 'help you' push.
you can also bait with them.
also: I'm not saying you should get it 100% of the time when playing Medusa, hell if you do choose to go linkens and/or manta both, then you're also gonna need some additional damage items, like Mkb etc. But if you don't get them and just go for nothing but damage, you might be too glassy, but considering ult+default mana pool and shield and your team, it should be enough to even skip linken, maybe not even BKB.
[editline]1st May 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=devon_wargod;50233234]I shouldn't be engaging myself by responding to this post but I'm a fucking idiot so
1. Butterfly is the only Medusa-friendly item that you can fit into that build that will actually help your illusions, and even then they only get 8.4 attack damage (6.72 with splitshot on) and 30 attackspeed that won't make that 8.4/6.72 attack damage go far
2. Imagine the DPS that a level 25 hero with actual lategame armor will be taking. You know, like 20+ armor.
3. The point is that Manta is super underwhelming as a damage item, of course SB would take damage if Medusa was attacking. The fact that her illusions do that little damage to a [b]level fucking 1 hero[/b] is supposed to tell you that it's not going to do significant damage.[/QUOTE]
what's the point of 1) ??? of course Bfly is pretty much core late-game item regardless of almost anything.
also 2) sure let's imagine those shit items at lvl25 lmao. You know, a definite loss at that point.
3) sure, it doesn't give you as much damage as Bfly/MKB/rapier for example, but it doesn't mean you couldn't fit manta or linkens into an okay late-game build. it gives utility, speed and some stats over [I]just[/I] damage.
Medusa IS a stupidly late-game hero, but like I said above of course you can skip them and go for more damage and earlier, whatever your current team's plan is. It can work, for sure. Hell, I might as well try playing a more dangerous Medusa the next time I play Medusa.
The only time you can bait with them is when you don't want to be leaving mana shield on 24/7, which will be over by the time you finish a Manta
Yeah, can't really do much baiting with them as Medusa tbh.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50233350]Yeah, can't really do much baiting with them as Medusa tbh.[/QUOTE]
Then why would you list it as a feature in the context of Medusa?
Troll?
[QUOTE=KillRay;50233239]you get it because the yasha part of it is good, yasha is a super good medusa item[/QUOTE]
Well yeah that's why you build S+Y
Strength for more tankiness, Agility for Damage, move speed, and Maim for the ability to chase (thus score kills).
Manta, on the other hand, only has the Agility and (less) Strength, and the ability to create illusions that do piss poor damage and don't help you secure kills in any way.
The fuck is the point?
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50233177]That's because he has shit items? and 6 armor is something, PMS too.[/QUOTE]
6 armor is nothing at the point Medusa would have those 4 items, PMS kinda balances the difference out
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50233177]so good job, str treads why, and skadi. no wonder the damage is shit[/QUOTE]
What's your point, both those are common on Medusa and this gif tells why they suck
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50233177]plus, the Main medusa is not even attacking, what is the point? Troll?[/QUOTE]
The point is that manta illusions do jackshit on Medusa, so you shouldn't really get it on her..
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50233177]also the splitshot is activated while shooting a single target lol[/QUOTE]
Illusions can't toggle it neither on or off and usually in a teamfight Medusa would want her illusions to deal as much damage as possible, which usually is done by using multishot
Try again mate
[editline].[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50233300]the illus can soak up dmg and eat up spells[/QUOTE]
They take 400% damage and don't have manashield, so a 2400 hp Medusa basically has 600 hp illusions which is barely any hp to tank with
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50233300]and it does 'help you' push.[/QUOTE]
150 base damage Medusa = 42 attack damage illusions against a tower with 55% reduced physical dmg = illusions deal 19 damage to towers per hit, if they're not in splitshot mode
What mighty pusher illusions they are
I awlays thought the cool part of Manta on medusa was the fact that any orb you have (almost always skadi) was being applied to every single enemy unit in the area with 3 split shots
and of course the ability to remove debuffs
aren't those the same reason you build it on AM, or any hero at all for that matter?
[editline]30th April 2016[/editline]
I left out splitting to farm multiple camps/lanes, which would cover the last typical use for it/ilusions in general i guess
Illusions don't get orbs that aren't feedback
oh man I assumed from the visuals on frost attack that their shots were also slowing
that takes away a lot of the coolness for me
[QUOTE=devon_wargod;50233651]Then why would you list it as a feature in the context of Medusa?
Troll?[/QUOTE]
Uhh because I just did? You wanna focus on that now?
It still gives like 26 agi which is not that bad, some speed, and utility in the form of dispel, disjoint and pushing power.
Not a straight up, pure damage item, but not the worst item on 'Dusa either, I'd say it could even fit into a late-game build but ofc you can find items with more damage. Like oh my god.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50236196]Uhh because I just did? You wanna focus on that now?
It still gives like 26 agi which is not that bad, some speed, and utility in the form of dispel, disjoint and pushing power.
Not a straight up, pure damage item, but not the worst item on 'Dusa either, I'd say it could even fit into a late-game build but ofc you can find items with more damage. Like oh my god.[/QUOTE]
Go actually look at how much damage your illusions do to a tower or to a creep wave.
For bonus testing, put Eblades in all of your other slots since that's the strongest item for raw agility.
Dispel and disjoint are situational.
So you paid 4950 gold for some stats that, by any other item's measure, are pretty inefficient.
Damage item?
[editline]1st May 2016[/editline]
MoM gives more dps for around 2/5 the price, on top of also increasing your movement speed while active, and thus from both accounts, being a way better farming item and fighting item.
[QUOTE=Bordellimies;50233947]6 armor is nothing at the point Medusa would have those 4 items, PMS kinda balances the difference out[/QUOTE]
You too, now?
[QUOTE=Bordellimies;50233947]What's your point, both those are common on Medusa and this gif tells why they suck[/QUOTE]
Yeah they are common because people are idiots, and don't realize that Medusa needs more damage. You can't build [I]only[/I] survival-based items.
Skadi+Linken's and Str treads (lmao) is quite ridiculous for Medusa. I'd immediately change Skadi for like an MKB, Treads preferably into Agility or just Phase Boots.
[QUOTE=Bordellimies;50233947]The point is that manta illusions do jackshit on Medusa, so you shouldn't really get it on her..[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they do jack shit if you have otherwise shit items, that certainly helps it. And yes, the manta illusions are not the strongest illusions out there atm. It's a pretty old item that has remained unchanged for long. Not the worst option on Medusa still, and could fit into a late-game build just as well.
[QUOTE=Bordellimies;50233947]Illusions can't toggle it neither on or off and usually in a teamfight Medusa would want her illusions to deal as much damage as possible, which usually is done by using multishot
Try again mate[/QUOTE]
No fucking shit they can't. But you can choose whether they spawn as split-shooty or single-shooty
[QUOTE=Bordellimies;50233947]They take 400% damage and don't have manashield, so a 2400 hp Medusa basically has 600 hp illusions which is barely any hp to tank with[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and they can still eat up spells like WD's gasket, Sunstrike, cause misclicks etc.
[QUOTE=Bordellimies;50233947]150 base damage Medusa = 42 attack damage illusions against a tower with 55% reduced physical dmg = illusions deal 19 damage to towers per hit, if they're not in splitshot mode
What mighty pusher illusions they are[/QUOTE]
Yep like I said, not as strong as CK illusions for example, but guess what they still 'help' you push lol.
[editline]1st May 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Yahnich;50236279]what exactly do you get from manta if there's no silence to dispel? the gif shows pretty clearly how trash the damage is, the damage is even trasher on towers with their high armor and fortified armor. at best you use it for farming, but mjollnir, bots, mom or a real damage item does farming better, so if manta isn't that good for pushing, farming or fighting what is it good for?[/QUOTE]
it's exactly good for pushing, and it's good at giving you the things that it does.
okay stats for Medusa, some utility (dispel, disjoint, pushing help, etc.), and attk speed. That's it, don't expect too mighty things from it.
[editline]1st May 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=devon_wargod;50236257]Go actually look at how much damage your illusions do to a tower or to a creep wave.
For bonus testing, put Eblades in all of your other slots since that's the strongest item for raw agility.
Dispel and disjoint are situational.
So you paid 4950 gold for some stats that, by any other item's measure, are pretty inefficient.
Damage item?
[editline]1st May 2016[/editline]
MoM gives more dps for around 2/5 the price, on top of also increasing your movement speed while active, and thus from both accounts, being a way better farming item and fighting item.[/QUOTE]
If you are naked with only MoM vs. naked with only a Manta, which one would even deal more damage to a same-armored target over X time, where you use the item whenever possible?
Here actually, I'll do the math for you
A Medusa at level 25 with a Manta and 5 eblades has 326 agility, so 353 attack damage and 426 attackspeed. On Manta illusions, that 353 is reduced to 98.84. Also, because her BAT is 1.7, she attacks 2.5 times per second with that attackspeed. So for [b]28,450 gold you get illusions that deal 247.1 DPS.[/b] And that's the highest DPS they can actually do. Don't forget about armor, and illusions naturally dealing less damage to towers by the way.
Against basic melee creeps, those illusions do 220.6603 DPS. Tier 1 towers, which already only take 50% damage from heroes due to how structure armor works, on top of only taking 45.5% damage after that because of 20 armor, ON TOP OF ONLY TAKING 75% DAMAGE FROM ILLUSIONS AFTER ALL THE PREVIOUS REDUCTIONS, take [b]42.161 DPS[/b] from your illusions.
[editline]1st May 2016[/editline]
Tell me all about that pushing power though baby
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