[QUOTE=Mesothere;51450100]It still pains me that this game was effectively finished months ago and release was withheld.[/QUOTE]
It's a no-brainer for an indie dev to take a development grant to polish their game, and even add multiplayer to it.
[editline]30th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;51452749]I want this so much... Can you get it for the Vive?[/QUOTE]
Certainly something developed for the Oculus API. That ReVive program will probably port it over for you.
[QUOTE=bitches;51452761]It's a no-brainer for an indie dev to take a development grant to polish their game, and even add multiplayer to it.[/QUOTE]
That isn't at odds with an earlier release for the Vive. It was they who set the release date and then betrayed their fans. It's just an example of Oculus/devs like this generating unecessary bad will amongst the fantasies
[QUOTE=Mesothere;51452774]That isn't at odds with an earlier release for the Vive. It was they who set the release date and then betrayed their fans. It's just an example of Oculus/devs like this generating unecessary bad will amongst the fantasies[/QUOTE]
Games get delayed all the time for additional development. It's not like they took any Vive owners' preorder money, right? Hardly betrayal.
[editline]30th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;51448755]I dont get this, what prevents Vive controllers from getting just as close to each other as Touch controllers?
What you would describe as interactions with hands right beside each other? I would say that H3VR is pretty much exclusively that, and the Vive controllers have no problem with that at all.
[editline]30th November 2016[/editline]
I mean you can basically shove the Vive wand donuts into each other and still not have occlusion problems.[/QUOTE]
It's about how close your hands can get to each other before the controllers bump together.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/yZC2W9l.png[/t]
[img]http://foxcock.me/web/images/ShareX/2016_11/2016-11-30_19-05-57.png[/img]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/shG6lgg.png[/t]
[editline]30th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Orkel;51448982]Vive wands simulate tools, Touch simulates hands, wasn't this what some testers said a long time ago
Maybe the consumer version Touch ergonomics have changed from the early Touches, but I think that comparison is still somewhat realistic - both can do both, but Vive wands feel more "tooly" (guns, swords etc) while the Touch is designed for having VR hands?[/QUOTE]
You hold them the same most of the time.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/ETRO3cG.jpg[/t]
The difference is mostly in size and weight balance; you can keep a loose grip on the Touch controllers to make gestures, and get your hands closer to each other. If the Vive wands feel "tooly", it's just because they're heavier and have a boxier handle.
[QUOTE=bitches;51452834]
It's about how close your hands can get to each other before the controllers bump together.
[/QUOTE]
I guess that's what I dont understand, I can touch my hands together just fine with the Vive wands. I really cant think of a case where I wouldnt be able to get them just as close to each other as I would be able to with a touch controller.
Moreover, what makes the Vive wands less capable of "close hand interactions"? What would qualify as "close hand" that would be closer than, say, what you do to operate weapons in H3VR, or making tiny details in tiltbrush?
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
Like is there a good example of something that I[I] wouldn't [/I]be able to do with a Vive wand that I could do with a Touch controller due to the controller size?
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
also, interesting article
[url]http://uploadvr.com/oculus-guides-show-smaller-multi-sensor-tracked-spaces-htc-vive/[/url]
looks like you'll want 3 sensors if you plan on doing room scale stuff larger than 1.5m x 1.5m
[t]http://cdn.uploadvr.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/oculus-2-sensor-360.jpg[/t]
[t]http://cdn.uploadvr.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/oculus-3-sensor.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;51453125]I guess that's what I dont understand, I can touch my hands together just fine with the Vive wands. I really cant think of a case where I wouldnt be able to get them just as close to each other as I would be able to with a touch controller.
Moreover, what makes the Vive wands less capable of "close hand interactions"? What would qualify as "close hand" that would be closer than, say, what you do to operate weapons in H3VR, or making tiny details in tiltbrush?[/QUOTE]
The Touch ring extends only just past your knuckles, and the Vive ring is on a stick extending significantly farther.
I tried to be true to the scales here:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/fWWhP2U.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/FmkbIJD.png[/img]
[editline]30th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;51453125]
looks like you'll want 3 sensors if you plan on doing room scale stuff larger than 1.5m x 1.5m
[t]http://cdn.uploadvr.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/oculus-2-sensor-360.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
I take video demonstration on Youtube more seriously than what a company recommends as its supported specifications.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;51453125]
also, interesting article
[url]http://uploadvr.com/oculus-guides-show-smaller-multi-sensor-tracked-spaces-htc-vive/[/url]
looks like you'll want 3 sensors if you plan on doing room scale stuff larger than 1.5m x 1.5m
[/QUOTE]
Interesting. I wonder if this will make it harder to set up when you want to demo it to your friends? I know setting up the 2 base stations for the Vive can be a pain in the ass when setting it up elsewhere, I wonder if throwing a third one into the mix will make it worse.
Then again, being able to set up two pretty much right next to each other should make it a non-issue. Am I reading that article right when it says that the Rift will only support up to 2.5 x 2.5m as a play area? I wasn't clear on these details previously.
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;51453330]Interesting. I wonder if this will make it harder to set up when you want to demo it to your friends? I know setting up the 2 base stations for the Vive can be a pain in the ass when setting it up elsewhere, I wonder if throwing a third one into the mix will make it worse.
Then again, being able to set up two pretty much right next to each other should make it a non-issue. Am I reading that article right when it says that the Rift will only support up to 2.5 x 2.5m as a play area? I wasn't clear on these details previously.[/QUOTE]
My single Rift camera tracks 3.5 meters out, but is of course very limited in being a single camera. If I remember correctly, the officially supported space for a single camera is to remain within 2 or 2.5m of the camera. What a company recommends isn't the same as what the product can do, but they have clear motivations in selling third cameras to perfect the tracking for whichever enthusiasts desire it.
They recommend three cameras for the same reason they recommend two-camera setups to both be on one side of a room: with a triangle, your controllers are in sight of two tracking stations at any given time, even if your body is in the way. VR works without three, but more angles makes it even harder to occlude your devices.
[QUOTE=bitches;51453279]The Touch ring extends only just past your knuckles, and the Vive ring is on a stick extending significantly farther.
I tried to be true to the scales here:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/fWWhP2U.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/FmkbIJD.png[/img]
[/QUOTE]
right but for "close hand interactions", you just do something like this with the vive and touch controllers, as if you're working with paint brushes or sculpting tools. It doesnt matter how close your hands can get to each other, just how close the interaction points (seen here in green) can be to each other.
H3VR for example positions the interaction points exactly as I have them here in the pictures, so manipulating tiny gun controls isnt a problem at all.
[t]http://imgur.com/6duP3dz.png[/t]
[t]http://imgur.com/xAcjICw.png[/t]
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
again, is there a good example of something that I wouldn't be able to do with a Vive wand that I could do with a Touch controller due to the controller size? I cant think of anything.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;51453566]right but for "close hand interactions", you just do something like this with the vive and touch controllers, as if you're working with paint brushes or sculpting tools. It doesnt matter how close your hands can get to each other, just how close the interaction points (seen here in green) can be to each other.
H3VR for example positions the interaction points exactly as I have them here in the pictures, so manipulating tiny gun controls isnt a problem at all.
[t]http://imgur.com/6duP3dz.png[/t]
[t]http://imgur.com/xAcjICw.png[/t]
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
again, is there a good example of something that I wouldn't be able to do with a Vive wand that I could do with a Touch controller due to the controller size? I cant think of anything.[/QUOTE]
then they're not actually VR hands at all, are they? close hand interaction doesn't mean fake hands a whole fist away from your real hands
you're actually claiming that getting your hands closer to each other is useless; that's quite the desperate stretch
[QUOTE=bitches;51453808]then they're not actually VR hands at all, are they? close hand interaction doesn't mean fake hands a whole fist away from your real hands
you're actually claiming that getting your hands closer to each other is useless; that's quite the desperate stretch[/QUOTE]
no like I fully understand the ergonomic advantages of a smaller, lighter controller, [B](which Touch controllers certainly are)[/B] I just dont understand what difference it would make from a gameplay perspective or how it would impact "close hand interactions"
so yeah I guess I kind of [I]am[/I] saying its useless. like how does having the interaction points 2 inches closer to your real hand make a difference? I have the exact same level of dexterity and precision in both cases. In both cases I'm holding a controller in basically the same pose, which makes both feel like hand tools, so they really arent going to be "VR hands" until we have stuff like Manus VR or that Vive controller 2.0 thing Valve has
I keep asking for an example of a situation where it would make a difference, and you just keep ignoring me lol
[QUOTE=bitches;51453808]then they're not actually VR hands at all, are they? close hand interaction doesn't mean fake hands a whole fist away from your real hands
you're actually claiming that getting your hands closer to each other is useless; that's quite the desperate stretch[/QUOTE]
I mean, I'm not sure why you'd consider that "desperate" when it's totally valid, you're getting weirdly defensive again. If you need to get the controllers closer together just use a different point on the controllers. The bottom of the controllers would work fine to chisel and you could even touch your physical hands together while touching the controllers together if that's what you need to be happy, it's not a big deal.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;51453845]no like I fully understand the ergonomic advantages of a smaller, lighter controller, [B](which Touch controllers certainly are)[/B] I just dont understand what difference it would make from a gameplay perspective or how it would impact "close hand interactions"
so yeah I guess I kind of [I]am[/I] saying its useless. like how does having the interaction points 2 inches closer to your real hand make a difference? I have the exact same level of dexterity and precision in both cases. In both cases I'm holding a controller in basically the same pose, which makes both feel like hand tools, so they really arent going to be "VR hands" until we have stuff like Manus VR or that Vive controller 2.0 thing Valve has
I keep asking for an example of a situation where it would make a difference, and you just keep ignoring me lol[/QUOTE]
I'm speechless at how you don't think being unable to get your actual hands near each other in Virtual Reality harms interactions based on your hands being close together. Your solution is literally putting the hands somewhere that isn't where your hand actually is. Do you think it's natural or intuitive to reach for small objects with rings ahead of your hands instead of your own fingers?
The whole idea is to have hands that let you more naturally interact with objects in VR, from picking up and using a gun to the manner in which you use your fingers to relate to those objects. I'm not saying that you can't achieve the same overall gameplay with Vive wands. All I'm doing is saying the literal truth about interacting with objects [I]with your actual hands[/I] in proximity to each other.
It's just good design, and I'm only bringing it up because people use it as a way to "conclude" that it takes three cameras to achieve the same results as the Vive's two lighthouses, without any heed to what that third camera is actually for.
[QUOTE=bitches;51453913]I'm speechless at how you don't think being unable to get your actual hands near each other in Virtual Reality harms interactions based on your hands being close together. Your solution is literally putting the hands somewhere that isn't where your hand actually is. [B]Do you think it's natural or intuitive to reach for small objects with rings ahead of your hands instead of your own fingers?[/B]
[/quote]
yeah, I do actually, I've been doing it for 8 months on my Vive :v:
generally my metric for "intuitive" is if my nearly-luditic parents can figure it out in one go. I dont think I've ever heard of someone complaining that picking things up with a vivemote is unintuitive or complicated lol
[quote]
The whole idea is to have hands that let you more naturally interact with objects in VR, from picking up and using a gun to the manner in which you use your fingers to relate to those objects. I'm not saying that you can't achieve the same overall gameplay with Vive wands. All I'm doing is saying the literal truth about interacting with objects [I]with your actual hands[/I] in proximity to each other.
[/quote]
but you [I]arent[/I] interacting with the objects with your actual hands, you're using controllers. You're still holding on to the controller in the exact same way that you would a vive controller, the only difference is that the interaction point is closer to your hand. Having the interaction point be closer to your real hand isnt going to make a controller, which you are [I]still gripping like a controller[/I], feel any more like a real hand, that's just silly.
[quote]
It's just good design, and I'm only bringing it up because people use it as a way to "conclude" that it takes three cameras to achieve the same results as the Vive's two lighthouses, without any heed to what that third camera is actually for.[/QUOTE]
the touch controller is an excellent design and will without doubt be the more ergonomic of the two until Valve pushes that prototype from steam dev days out the door.
you really need to stop getting so defensive dude, my goodness, remember the days when the Vive fanboys were the vitriolic ones?
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
and for the record, you most likely [I]do[/I] need 3 cameras to achieve the same performance as the lighthouses, otherwise Oculus wouldn't have put this verbiage in their setup PDF for the 2 sensor configuration:
[quote]
Note, however, that larger room layouts may result in some dropoff in tracking quality at the extreme edges of your play area.
[/quote]
and probably wouldnt have designated a recommended play space size that is literally smaller than what SteamVR considers "standing VR".
[QUOTE=bitches;51453808]
you're actually claiming that getting your hands closer to each other is useless; that's quite the desperate stretch[/QUOTE]
so all in all i agree with you about extra fidelity stemming from having your hands physically closer together in VR, but i gotta say man
whenever a discussion regarding the vive and the rift comes up, you come into [I]every[/I] debate with a fairly authoritative, "im right you're wrong" tone about it
timebomb isn't attacking the rift or anything, he's just simply stating his opinion, and how he sees it. you're calling his opinions a "desperate stretch"
i wouldn't even be pointing it out if it didn't seem like your only contribution to this thread is to come in and "correct" "misinformation" about the rift.
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
like this whole discussion is basically occurring now because you [I]needed[/I] to assert that the rift doesn't actually use 3 cameras and you [I]needed[/I] to disprove the outrageous myth that the vive controllers and the rift controllers allow for similar levels of hand interactivity.
I played Climbey a lot, and never had a feeling, that I can't have hands close enough to what I want.
About the close hand interaction stuff: I've had plenty of times in Onward where I bumped the controllers into each other when handling weapons. The time I used my Touch controllers that was one thing that made quite a difference. It depends on the game and what it asks of you.
[editline]1st December 2016[/editline]
Raptor Valley dev responded to my old thread in the Steam forums about finally releasing Touch support for his game: [url]http://steamcommunity.com/app/524120/discussions/0/343786746007926831/?tscn=1480546671[/url]
Bitches, you also seem to be forgetting how adaptable the human brain is and how easy it is to fool. It doesn't take long for you to adjust to yourself to the the slight difference in interaction distance.
Plus, most of the time, when hands need to get close together, the developer will use a system where they don't necessarily have to get that close. In tilt brush for example, the palette floats out from the top of your hand, meaning you don't actually have to get that close, even though in VR, it feels like you do.
I don't understand why this is such a big deal. There are going to be very few situations where your hands need to get that close to eachother and it certainly doesn't feel like your hands are 3 inches ahead of you when using a Vive.
You need to chill out. Everyone knows the Touch controllers are more ergonomic. Sure they might have slight finger tracking capabilities but it's silly to claim that it's straight up the best VR interaction tool when things like Magic Leap and Control VR/Manus VR exist.
My Oculus Touch just shipped.
My body is ready.
Edit: UPS says 2-4 Business days, works out about right.
[QUOTE=Orkel;51457192][hd]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJWzngJ_DjE[/hd][/QUOTE]
Absolutely gonna recommend Cosmic Trip, the visuals are great and the gameplay is excellent.
plus friendbot is best bot
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;51457420]Absolutely gonna recommend Cosmic Trip, the visuals are great and the gameplay is excellent.
plus friendbot is best bot[/QUOTE]
Kind of wary of EA games usually, would you say there's enough content to buy it now? I mean winter sale is coming up so I could always grab it then but curious what you think of its current state
Man, Oculus Medium looks a lot better than Tilt Brush.
I played the Robo Recall demo earlier today. It was a hell of a lot of fun, and seems like a no brainer game for anybody with Rift+Touch. I guess it doesn't really do anything technically new, but it's really fun and just very well made. As soon as I figured out that you could juggle robots midair with your pistols like Dante, (and get points for it!) I was sold, and it only got better from there.
To add fuel to the fire on [B][I]HOT OPINIONS[/I][/B] about Vive vs Oculus and whatever, there was a point in the Robo Recall demo where they tell you to pull shotguns from behind your back. It didn't work for me at first because I put my hand directly behind my back and so my hand was occluded by my body. When I realized that's why it wasn't working, I turned slightly to the right and moved my hand a little to the left and it started working fine from there on out.
That's more to do with how the sensors are set up though, and not really any technical limitation. If you put the sensors wider apart (or just do them opposing) then that's less of an issue.
Something kind of interesting someone noted on Reddit:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/x5M32lY.jpg[/t]
[t]http://cdn.uploadvr.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/oculus-2-sensor-360.jpg[/t]
[quote]The main thing is that you need 3.2mx3.2m to get a 2.5mx2.5m play area with triple [Oculus] Sensors. With Lighthouse you only need 2.5mx2.5m to get a 2.5mx2.5m play area. This means you need more space with Constellation than Lighthouse for an equivalent tracked volume.[/quote]
The decreased FOV of Constellation cameras means your play space doesn't necessarily extend to the corners of your room as it does with Lighthouses. It takes more total space to define a playable space using Constellation as a result, which is problematic if you have a small space to begin with. I remember people making a fuss about how roomscale was doomed to fail because nobody has room for a Vive, according to Oculus' guidelines you only have access to about 80% (rounding up) of your actual space to play with.
[QUOTE=srobins;51460348]The decreased FOV of Constellation cameras means your play space doesn't necessarily extend to the corners of your room as it does with Lighthouses. It takes more total space to define a playable space using Constellation as a result, which is problematic if you have a small space to begin with. I remember people making a fuss about how roomscale was doomed to fail because nobody has room for a Vive, according to Oculus' guidelines you only have access to about 80% (rounding up) of your actual space to play with.[/QUOTE]
Has anyone actually determined the FOV/reso of the rift cameras? The lighthouse is 120 degrees by 120 degrees [sp](resolution much more complicated than cameras)[/sp] which is nuts but I've never seen hard numbers on the rift camera
[QUOTE=Orkel;51457192][hd]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJWzngJ_DjE[/hd][/QUOTE]
im not very happy that kingspray missed their june launch date for vive because oculus paid them off to work on touch support instead.
[QUOTE=Elspin;51460505]Has anyone actually determined the FOV/reso of the rift cameras? The lighthouse is 120 degrees by 120 degrees [sp](resolution much more complicated than cameras)[/sp] which is nuts but I've never seen hard numbers on the rift camera[/QUOTE]
The only number I can find after some Googling is 100x70*, but apparently the source is Heaney555, so mountains of salt. Oculus doesn't seem to have released any concrete specs, same as when the headset launched.
My Touch has shipped as well, scheduled delivery on the 9th. Shipped from the Netherlands, seems that's where they keep their stock.
[QUOTE=Cold Finger;51460027]Man, Oculus Medium looks a lot better than Tilt Brush.[/QUOTE]
Tilt Brush, Medium and Quill all three seem to have their own style though. Medium is the only one of these doing volumetric stuff.
SteamVR finally updated to include haptics for Touch
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/games/250820/announcements/detail/289750474011913365[/url]
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Virtual Reality General V3 - You've got the Touch
