Virtual Reality General V3 - You've got the Touch - Games

Didn't even know Superhot VR got released. How is it on revive?

[QUOTE=Elspin;51494844]It's meant to be a replacement part in case of damage or malfunction, you can't buy all the parts of a vive individually from the htc store. Not sure why they don't also include a way to buy the power supply as well though.[/QUOTE] I figure it's just because the power supply is kind of a standard component. You can just nab an equivalent supply off Amazon so they have no real need to manufacture and ship individual units. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] Also re: Arizona Sunshine, the game looks cool but the i7 nonsense has really put me off. I'm pretty fucking sure my i5 can manage without the apparent black magick powered Intel Core i7 (insert excessive trademark/copyright signs here). [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] Oh wow, I didn't realize Arizona Sunshine actually locks out entire game modes. Apparently they're promising to unlock them to i5 owners in a few months, and even older generation i7's are locked out. What a bunch of scumbags.

Arizona Sunshine i7 unlock from CrossVR: [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/5h3f2u/arizona_moonshine_unlock_single_player_horde_mode/[/url]

This means cross-hardware right? [t]https://puu.sh/sHZ1y/b18792257e.png[/t]

[QUOTE=Wickerman123;51495744]This means cross-hardware right? [t]https://puu.sh/sHZ1y/b18792257e.png[/t][/QUOTE] Yes; it addresses the core concern for any parties involved with letting a competitor define VR API standards that control the hardware. If they all meet up they can figure out what works best for everyone. I've tried out opposing-corner Touch, and it is in short "your mileage may vary". The tracking volume is fantastic. [t]http://i.imgur.com/dTI0Tf3.png[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/uu2TrWj.png[/t] The blue area is where the my walls are (~9x10 feet), and is the entire open space in my apartment. On the lower right you can see a hint of where the dead-zone is for one camera if your body blocks the other. This dead-zone is basically nothing around your waist, and two feet from the corner of the floor below the camera (a cone-ish shape). This is with both cameras placed high up the wall aimed about 45 degrees downward. With 10 degrees missing from the vertical by not aiming them 35 degrees down (70 total vertically, 110 horizontally), I can still raise my arms because the vertical tracking decline meets in the center of my playspace before the tracking cone can drop down too far. So, the good news is that roomscale rift tracking volume drama is just dumb drama. Now for the bad part: The controllers are just too small to do roomscale with two cameras. You guys are really underselling how often you'd want to put your hands up close to each other in the ways that Touch lets you do. It's so natural that you're trying to do it [I]all the time[/I], but with two opposing corner trackers this breaks the tracking without two cameras both facing both controllers like a front-facing camera setup does. With two front-facing cameras, the Touch tracking is amazing and flawless within a 180 degree span, and "pretty good" for maybe 30 additional degrees past the 180 on either side. If you turn all the way around, the Rift headset itself works really well still no matter how I'm looking thanks to the second camera, but the controllers have ~30 degrees facing totally away from the cameras where the tracking is bad. The issue lessens the closer you are to the front of the playing space. In conclusion: For two cameras, they should absolutely remain forward-facing. A third camera behind me (a triangle) on the other side of the room would solve the rest of the tracking, and the tracking volume is no problem. The third camera is a worthwhile purchase for how nice the controllers are, especially if you pre-ordered and got >100$ in free software. If you're not a pre-orderer, a full Rift setup costs $80 more to do full roomscale tracking that doesn't occlude anywhere, but the hardware is a lot nicer minus the tracking method forcing you to shill out 10% more money.

After searching literally all day for a location in Phoenix to do a demo at, I was directed to a Best Buy who would have a representative available from 1-3pm. Called at 1pm, told me he'd be there at 4pm. Show up at 4pm, wait till 4:30pm, guy never shows up. Call Best Buy, they tell me none of their Phoenix locations offer Touch, I pointed out I was standing in a store that literally said "TRY TOUCH TODAY" so clearly that isn't true, and they sent me to a manager who told me that location was the only one (Dubious, but whatever, I'm done with Best Buy's shit at this point), but that the Microsoft Store [I]right next to my house[/I] had it. I called the store and asked if they had a Rift, they said yes, I asked if they had the Touch controllers too, they said yes. Show up, say "I'm here to do a demo of the Oculus Rift!" and they go "Right this way sir!". As I'm walking I say, "so you guys have Touch and all that, right?". Nope! They don't! Kill me! Anyway the employees then tell me that a certain location [I]definitely[/I] has it, so I call and they say "Nope, that location doesn't offer the Rift, just the Vive!". I plead for the guy at the call center to actually check with the store, lo and behold they [I]do[/I]! I've done it folks, I've finally found a fucking demo. I drive 45 minutes for a 5 minute demo given to me by a pretty chill dude whose manager was an absolute cunt about the whole thing. Standing right in front of me she goes, "look just make it quick, we don't have time for this". The store is fucking empty, eat shit lady. Anyway I'm about to go out so I'll post my impressions later.

[QUOTE=srobins;51496028]After searching literally all day for a location in Phoenix to do a demo at, I was directed to a Best Buy who would have a representative available from 1-3pm. Called at 1pm, told me he'd be there at 4pm. Show up at 4pm, wait till 4:30pm, guy never shows up. Call Best Buy, they tell me none of their Phoenix locations offer Touch, I pointed out I was standing in a store that literally said "TRY TOUCH TODAY" so clearly that isn't true, and they sent me to a manager who told me that location was the only one (Dubious, but whatever, I'm done with Best Buy's shit at this point), but that the Microsoft Store [I]right next to my house[/I] had it. I called the store and asked if they had a Rift, they said yes, I asked if they had the Touch controllers too, they said yes. Show up, say "I'm here to do a demo of the Oculus Rift!" and they go "Right this way sir!". As I'm walking I say, "so you guys have Touch and all that, right?". Nope! They don't! Kill me! Anyway the employees then tell me that a certain location [I]definitely[/I] has it, so I call and they say "Nope, that location doesn't offer the Rift, just the Vive!". I plead for the guy at the call center to actually check with the store, lo and behold they [I]do[/I]! I've done it folks, I've finally found a fucking demo. I drive 45 minutes for a 5 minute demo given to me by a pretty chill dude whose manager was an absolute cunt about the whole thing. Standing right in front of me she goes, "look just make it quick, we don't have time for this". The store is fucking empty, eat shit lady. Anyway I'm about to go out so I'll post my impressions later.[/QUOTE] that's some amazingly poor customer service from the manager lady managers [I]can[/I] get fired as issues like these stack up; if it's as bad as you say it wouldn't hurt to drop a note somewhere up the chain

So Valve included a fix to Superhot crashing with Revive in their newest SteamVR beta branch. That just seems to weird to me. I never thought Valve would even acknowledge it's existence let alone cater for it.

Dean Hall wrote a post on /r/Vive about VR development and funding: [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/5h51dd/the_hard_truth_about_virtual_reality_development/[/url] He notes that (a) even though Gabe said Valve does funding he never heard of any dev getting it, or know how to apply for it, and (b) HTC's accelerator program requires your studio to be in specific (expensive) places. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;51494708]Did you play a lot or is it as short and overpriced as the original game? I was looking forward to it but the original left a sour taste in my mouth and I'm not ready for an encore [/QUOTE] I got it for 'free' since I backed the original Kickstarter. Consists of around 20 levels. Personally think it's pretty great, but it's not terribly long on anything (I blasted through it in a few hours).

[QUOTE=lilguy;51495704]Arizona Sunshine i7 unlock from CrossVR: [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/5h3f2u/arizona_moonshine_unlock_single_player_horde_mode/[/url][/QUOTE] Apparently they patched it out officially already. Gamemodes are now unlocked for everyone. If Vertigo Games had hired me last year when I applied, I would've pointed it out that /r/Vive would eat them alive for that :v:

[QUOTE=bitches;51495927] So, the good news is that roomscale rift tracking volume drama is just dumb drama. [/QUOTE] It's not really a drama, people just complain that you have to do magic tricks with cameras and put them in specific locations that need extension cables, and tracking is still not perfect for Touch (HMD seems to do fine no matter what). Only buying 3 sensor (that makes the cost of Rift 80$ more than Vive), makes the roomscale acceptable, but still not perfect (more cables around the room, smaller tracking area and fov on cameras ETC.). It clearly shows that by design Rift is NOT a roomscale device. Camera tracking is inferior, messy and expensive for the same result, that still has problems (forget about VR backpacks that some companies sell, you need USB connection to cameras). Vive won the roomscale, and HTC clearly knows that. Arcades pop up around the world with Vive, and more will pop up, just because it is easier to set up, work with, and HTC also plans some arcade specific hardware. By the way, Vivecraft is awesome :) Sometimes I forgot where I actually was. Works very well, swimming in Vivecraft is really cool. You almost want to swim when you see a lake.

[t]http://i.imgur.com/7lcCECs.jpg[/t] heh its cool I got this gu

[QUOTE=Clavus;51496610]He notes that (a) even though Gabe said Valve does funding he never heard of any dev getting it, or know how to apply for it, and (b) HTC's accelerator program requires your studio to be in specific (expensive) places.[/QUOTE] My personal experience differs, although I'm not sure I can even talk about it so make of that what you will. He does make a few good points but also misses why people are so reluctant to accept this and it's not just being unable to play a game for a few months, but because you know that if you don't fight against it right now the practice of artificially locking features to hardware is going to stick around long after it's no longer a necessity I don't want to shit on rocket because although his track record isn't perfect it's nothing egregious but the guy made a buggy mod that got super popular and then bailed when the time came to turn it into a proper game so don't take what he says as gospel, sometimes it feels like people treat him like he's the new Notch

[QUOTE=Xanoxis;51497106]It's not really a drama, people just complain that you have to do magic tricks with cameras and put them in specific locations that need extension cables, and tracking is still not perfect for Touch (HMD seems to do fine no matter what). Only buying 3 sensor (that makes the cost of Rift 80$ more than Vive), makes the roomscale acceptable, but still not perfect (more cables around the room, smaller tracking area and fov on cameras ETC.). It clearly shows that by design Rift is NOT a roomscale device. Camera tracking is inferior, messy and expensive for the same result, that still has problems (forget about VR backpacks that some companies sell, you need USB connection to cameras). Vive won the roomscale, and HTC clearly knows that. Arcades pop up around the world with Vive, and more will pop up, just because it is easier to set up, work with, and HTC also plans some arcade specific hardware. By the way, Vivecraft is awesome :) Sometimes I forgot where I actually was. Works very well, swimming in Vivecraft is really cool. You almost want to swim when you see a lake.[/QUOTE] For what it's worth, I wasn't able to demo the Vive at IEM because they weren't able to set it up the second day.

Alright, the review you've all been waited for with baited breath, here's my thoughts on the Rift/Touch after doing a demo at the Microsoft Store: The headset itself is pretty cool, it almost felt like a toy at first because it's so small and compact compared to the Vive. I was pretty insistent on getting it adjusted right (which I'm sure didn't help the attitude issues of the employees there, but whatever, fuck you I'm a customer and I'm polite) so I could be fair about my comparison. It definitely is lighter than the Vive, but I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's more comfortable. The thin foam and shape of the facial interface felt kinda, I don't know, it felt a little lacking? To be fair, I use my Vive with a third party cloth cover which also makes it more comfortable, but I kind of prefer the thick foam and elastic strap of the Vive. When the Vive is properly adjusted to grip the occipital part of your skull, it feels balanced and snug. The Rift felt a little more like it was relying on the mechanical force of the headset being pulled into my face by the straps in order to stay seated, but maybe with more adjustment it would be better. The first thing I noticed trying the Rift was the square FOV. I had read that the Vive had a higher vertical FOV but I had never even considered the fact that the Vive uses a circular FOV as opposed to the Rift's rectangular FOV. It felt kind of like I was looking through the viewfinder of a camera, it made me very aware of the fact that I was looking at a screen rather than looking [I]through[/I] some kind of headgear. I was very aware of the vertical limits of the screen, I feel like the FOV difference is honestly pretty understated in most online comparisons. Like, it's a very noticeable difference, one I really was not expecting. The screen clarity I won't be too harsh on because I'm sure the lenses were a bit smudged just from being used on a demo unit, but I got the impression that the "sweet spot" for the lenses was definitely larger than the Vive, but it felt like the overall image was a little "soft". I don't want to say "blurry" because it wasn't necessarily a bad thing, it just didn't feel as "crisp" as the Vive. This might have to do with the difference in display brightness, which was also pretty apparent. The Rift's display felt a lot more ambient; I feel like the brightness difference is also kind of understated, I wasn't expecting it to be that different. But, like I said, the sweet spot was a lot larger so you had much less blurring or distortion near the edges of your vision, which is a definite plus. The Touch controllers are pretty slick, but I honestly was a little disappointed. I came in fully expecting to be blown away by how natural and intuitive Touch was going to be, but felt kind of like I was looking at a prototype compared to what I've been reading about. Hand presence and finger tracking was what I had been most excited to see, as well as the ergonomics of the Touch controllers supposedly giving you the feeling of actually being able to reach out and grab things. In reality the finger tracking on Touch was just off enough to feel.. weird? I didn't realize that the Touch controllers' finger tracking is either on/off, there's no measurement of how far off your fingers are, so if you lift your finger off the capacitive surfaces even a bit, your fingers fully extend. It was kind of neat at first, but the slight disconnect between my virtual hands and my real hands was enough to be distracting. It's kind of like the reason games don't try and show you a faked IK rig of your elbow: even if it looks really close, if it isn't perfect it ends up being distracting and a constant reminder you're in VR. It reminds me of the point someone brought up about VR, "it's easier for the brain to fill in something that isn't there than to reconcile something fake/approximate that doesn't match what it expects to be there". The hands were a different size than my hands, and the orientation was never quite aligned with how I gripped the controller, so they always felt slightly off. When I would gesture with my hands, the on/off gesture tracking just made me feel even more disconnected from my virtual hands whenever my real-life fingers didn't line up with the in-game ones. I remember during the Touch tutorial they have you point your index finger at spheres to blow them up, and it really irked me that my real-life finger didn't line up with the virtual one, and I had to angle my whole hand in order to get the virtual finger pointing at the target. In comparison to the Vive wands, while of course there's no semblance of believing my hands are really in the game, the fact that games use either a physically accurate model of the wand or some sort of wand-based custom model (i.e. the controller in Fantastic Contraption, the Grabber tool in Modbox, the wand-shaped guns in Space Pirate Trainer) means that I really do feel like the controller is "there" and in the game. While I can't see my hands, going back to the "brain filling in gaps" bit, they may as well be because everything that [I]is[/I] on screen is 100% physically accurate so your imagination just forgets about the concept of hands entirely. Even though nobody will believe me, I think I genuinely prefer the Vive wands to Touch :v: I was only able to try out a front-facing 2 camera setup, but for what it's worth the tracking was very nice and smooth with that recommended setup. I wasn't able to test out any 360* or room-scale tracking because the employees were super restrictive and almost seemed bothered by me even taking a single step in any direction, so I can't really speak to any of that. Another thing that was of interest to me was the integrated audio. On one hand, it's totally convenient and they're pretty comfy. It's super simple and effortless to flip them down onto your ears and have audio taken care of. On the other hand, the quality was lower than I had expected. I use a pair of Apple Earbuds religiously, it's basically the only way I listen to music aside from my high quality desk speakers, and I'd say my Earbuds are higher quality than the Rift's integrated headphones. To be fair, you're comparing in-ear to over-ear, so no duh the in-ear solution will sound better, but even then the integrated audio didn't feel very immersive because of the over-ear solution. Too much sound was getting away for it to feel like I was really "there" in terms of audio. There's a lot to be said for convenience though, as it's definitely a drag doing the initial wiring to get my Earbuds hooked into the Vive at first, but I feel like once you spend the 30 seconds routing your Earbuds, you get a way better experience. Overall, I was genuinely underwhelmed by the Rift/Touch. I know this'll probably sound like a fanboy post, but whatever, if you take some grave issue with my experience.. It is what it is. Really not trying to be a dick here, but this is my honest to god opinion based on that experience. Maybe if I had more time to get acquainted with the Rift/Touch I'd come around, but my initial experiences really just reinforced my Vive fanboyism tbh. [B]tl;dr[/B]: Rift's vertical FOV is noticeably lower than Vive, the rectangular FOV is distracting, Touch's hand-presence misses the mark (for me! This is all based on my own preference, I'm not claiming any sort of objectivity with this review), integrated audio is convenience at the expense of quality, Rift's screen has a much larger "sweet spot" and less distortion around edges, but the FOV and viewport shape are even more distracting. My Vive boner is stronger than ever. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] Holy fuck, it didn't look like that much text in the "compose" box.. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=bitches;51496034]that's some amazingly poor customer service from the manager lady managers [I]can[/I] get fired as issues like these stack up; if it's as bad as you say it wouldn't hurt to drop a note somewhere up the chain[/QUOTE] Eh, I always feel like complaining about poor customer service is just me wasting my time to do their business a favor. I'll just silently take my business to the store next to my house where the employees are actually friendly and let the other place pay the financial toll for having shit staff. It's like, why should I dedicate my time and effort to helping [I]your[/I] business improve? I'd be doing them a favor and frankly they don't deserve the courtesy.

HTC just announced Vive Studios: [url]http://uploadvr.com/htc-announces-vive-studios-publish-deeper-longer-room-scale-vr-games/[/url] Basically like Oculus Studios, pumping money and talent into the industry to get shit moving and make bigger games. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] I am starting to wonder when Valve is finally going to show some new content. The only VR news coming from them is either SteamVR back-end or hardware related.

Rec Room is super fun. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] Hearing a faint "allahu akbar" in the distance followed by a paint grenade explosion is way too funny.

[video=youtube_share;oOGe864qvpg]http://youtu.be/oOGe864qvpg[/video] [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=srobins;51498027]the rectangular FOV is distracting, [/QUOTE] The Rift's FOV isn't rectangular.

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;51499018]The Rift's FOV isn't rectangular.[/QUOTE] All the pictures I've seen of inside the lenses seem to show it being roughly around what srobins was describing? [thumb]http://www.gamerevolution.com/images/misc/Lens.jpg[/thumb]

[QUOTE=Elspin;51499124]All the pictures I've seen of inside the lenses seem to show it being roughly around what srobins was describing? [thumb]http://www.gamerevolution.com/images/misc/Lens.jpg[/thumb][/QUOTE] I've had a Rift since August and I never noticed it being anything but circular. Never seen the "edges" like that image has.

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;51499018]The Rift's FOV isn't rectangular.[/QUOTE] There was a lot of hot opinions in my post but the Rift's FOV is without a doubt rectangular.. The displays render warped squares in each eye, whereas the Vive renders a perfect circle.

I just tried my rift on while actively looking for the edges of the screen and I just can't see them unless I have the Rift at absurd positions and angles on my face. The shape of the FOV is dictated by the edges of the lenses, not the actual image on the screen itself. Now I want someone else who has a Rift to back me up to make sure that it's not just my eyeballs being too far "in" my face or something. But I doubt that's the case since there's supposed to be a bit of room in there anyway for people with glasses and such.

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;51499136]I've had a Rift since August and I never noticed it being anything but circular. Never seen the "edges" like that image has.[/QUOTE] The rectangle is rounded, it's not a perfect edge and it probably looks rounder the closer you are to the screen, I haven't been in a CV1 for a few months so I don't remember exactly how noticable it was for me but there's hundreds of images inside the headset showing the FOV shape [thumb]http://i.imgur.com/citesYm.jpg[/thumb]

Maybe it's an IPD issue? I don't really know, but it was very obvious as soon as I put the headset on. Have you tried a Vive? It might be one of those things that only becomes apparent in comparison to something else. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] Does the Rift have an adjustment for the distance from the eyes to the lens, like the Vive's weird knob things on the side? Because I definitely had the thing on nice and snug so it's not like it was rattling around or I was looking through it sideways or something, it was pretty much dead-on.

[QUOTE=srobins;51499213]Maybe it's an IPD issue? I don't really know, but it was very obvious as soon as I put the headset on. Have you tried a Vive? It might be one of those things that only becomes apparent in comparison to something else. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] Does the Rift have an adjustment for the distance from the eyes to the lens, like the Vive's weird knob things on the side? Because I definitely had the thing on nice and snug so it's not like it was rattling around or I was looking through it sideways or something, it was pretty much dead-on.[/QUOTE] Rift has no proximity adjustment. IPD would only affect the visibility of the screen to the immediate left or right. I use it at its max setting, but even putting it at its minimum setting doesn't show me the edge of the screen. [editline]8th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Elspin;51499201]The rectangle is rounded, it's not a perfect edge and it probably looks rounder the closer you are to the screen, I haven't been in a CV1 for a few months so I don't remember exactly how noticable it was for me but there's hundreds of images inside the headset showing the FOV shape [thumb]http://i.imgur.com/citesYm.jpg[/thumb][/QUOTE] I know, I'm not questioning that you can see them when you press a camera to the lenses, I'm saying that with my eyes at least, the edges of the image are not visible at all. And even with my phone camera, I have to tilt the camera quite a bit to be able to see the edges of the screen past the edges of the lenses. I took a video, though it's hard to tell the tilt of the phone but whatever. [url]https://twitter.com/Freezorg/status/806955764346716160[/url]

Hm, does anyone know if the screen proximity was different on engineering samples? Is it possible that's what's going on, that they slipped me into a pre-CV1 headset? I looked at the front and didn't see any "Engineering Sample" labeling though.

Maybe your head shape just makes your eyes be closer to the lenses, thus showing the entire screen without the lense edges blocking the rectangular shape?

honestly, from the description, it sounds like you had the headset on too tight, and not adjusted right overall.

[QUOTE=Dracon;51499419]honestly, from the description, it sounds like you had the headset on too tight, and not adjusted right overall.[/QUOTE] I was honestly pretty neurotic about getting the fit right because I wanted to make sure I get a good look at it. Must be my head shape or something, because it fit comfortably and snugly.

[QUOTE=Clavus;51498232] I am starting to wonder when Valve is finally going to show some new content. The only VR news coming from them is either SteamVR back-end or hardware related.[/QUOTE] [video]https://youtu.be/mJqo7XzwJd0?t=8m48s[/video] At 8m48s.