[QUOTE=Xanoxis;51499476][video]https://youtu.be/mJqo7XzwJd0?t=8m48s[/video]
At 8m48s.[/QUOTE]
So next year then, which, after [url=https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time]adjustment[/url], means just before 2018 hopefully :v:
Anyway looking forward to seeing what they've got in store.
[QUOTE=Clavus;51499496]So next year then, which, after [url=https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time]adjustment[/url], means just before 2018 hopefully :v:
Anyway looking forward to seeing what they've got in store.[/QUOTE]
Almost half of Valve is on VR, I hope it will be great and will use roomscale, be innovative and stuff. I hope either L4D3 that works for VR and is not another wave shooter, Portal 3 that feels great (as seen on small mod for Portal 2, it can work) or HL3.
The Rift having a different FOV shape than the Vive is something I remember people talking about a lot when the headsets first launched. I can't say it's something I really noticed, but then I wasn't really looking for it and haven't had the chance to try a Vive for comparison.
Pretty much everything srobins said is consistent with what I've read/seen about the two.
This evening I tried I Expect You To Die. Great intro credits. Game itself is even more fun. Figuring out the puzzles, trying random shit and getting away with it.
[QUOTE=srobins;51498027]BIG BIG REVIEW[/QUOTE]
what game did you get to try? i've not had much time to actually play games yet, so the First Contact tutorial with the robot fella is the best usage i've seen so far; the rockets you hold in your hand and fire around really show off how you can forget the controller and 'grab' at things with your hands
[editline]8th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Xanoxis;51497106]It's not really a drama, people just complain that you have to do magic tricks with cameras and put them in specific locations that need extension cables, and tracking is still not perfect for Touch (HMD seems to do fine no matter what). Only buying 3 sensor (that makes the cost of Rift 80$ more than Vive), makes the roomscale acceptable, but still not perfect (more cables around the room, smaller tracking area and fov on cameras ETC.).[/QUOTE]
this is a very disingenuous post
there isn't any "magic trick" to placing the cameras; you literally just stick them on your desk and they track the huge volume that i've [I]demonstrated[/I] with those screenshots
the point of my post was to ultimately say: default Touch tracking is two forward facing cameras high up on your desk (camera clamp things off Amazon can help), and that you have occlusion behind you unless you route a third camera via an extension cable to the other side of your bedroom
you're arguing that mounting a single camera to your wall with an extension cable is a big hassle, when it just takes five minutes to accomplish
[QUOTE=bitches;51499949]this is a very disingenuous post
there isn't any "magic trick" to placing the cameras; you literally just stick them on your desk and they track the huge volume that i've [I]demonstrated[/I] with those screenshots
the point of my post was to ultimately say: default Touch tracking is two forward facing cameras high up on your desk (camera clamp things off Amazon can help), and that you have occlusion behind you unless you route a third camera via an extension cable to the other side of your bedroom
[b]you're arguing that mounting a single camera to your wall with an extension cable is a big hassle[/b], when it just takes five minutes to accomplish[/QUOTE]
Depending on whether you live alone or own your own place etc routing cables across rooms can be a big deal, some people are really picky about that. It's definitely not time consuming to just put the cables on your floor ofc.
[QUOTE=Elspin;51500089]Depending on whether you live alone or own your own place etc routing cables across rooms can be a big deal, some people are really picky about that. It's definitely not time consuming to just put the cables on your floor ofc.[/QUOTE]
if someone is going to be uptight about a cable on the edge of the ceiling, they'll be uptight about screwing holes for any other tracker station
it's a useless point
[editline]8th December 2016[/editline]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/oj7yLrX.png[/t]
👌
[QUOTE=bitches;51500099]if someone is going to be uptight about a cable on the edge of the ceiling, they'll be uptight about screwing holes for any other tracker station
it's a useless point[/QUOTE]
Except you don't need to drill holes for the vive anymore than you do for the touch? A lot of people use tripods or tension poles
Having to buy a third camera along with stringing 3 USB cables across my room is super off-putting. As it stands if you want room-scale with Oculus you're going to spend more money and get a less polished [I]room-scale[/I] experience. I don't really see the appeal at this point.
[editline]8th December 2016[/editline]
I think its funny that now that the dust has settled, the "premium" product came in at a lower price than what was supposed to be the cheaper option for an equivalent package. Really not sure how that happened what with the months and months of price discussions.
[QUOTE=srobins;51500225] Really not sure how that happened what with the months and months of price discussions.[/QUOTE]
well technically the price is exactly what everyone expected it to be, it's just that no one expected touch to need that extra sensor to get full room scale
[QUOTE=srobins;51500225]Having to buy a third camera along with stringing 3 USB cables across my room is super off-putting. As it stands if you want room-scale with Oculus you're going to spend more money and get a less polished [I]room-scale[/I] experience. I don't really see the appeal at this point.
[editline]8th December 2016[/editline]
I think its funny that now that the dust has settled, the "premium" product came in at a lower price than what was supposed to be the cheaper option for an equivalent package. Really not sure how that happened what with the months and months of price discussions.[/QUOTE]
still wrong
you place the first two sensors around the upper back of your own computer desk
you string [I]one[/I] cable (a third sensor's) to the other end of your bedroom, which as i seem to need to repeat endlessly, is absurdly trivial
a more valid complaint is needing 3 USB 3.0 ports for tracking
[editline]8th December 2016[/editline]
the appeal is having nicer controllers in exchange for needing a third camera (for those who agree that the Touch controllers are nicer), and then you've got the same roomscale experience
ultimately it's a question of if you think the controllers are nice enough to warrant spending 10% more money
I wonder what this means for Oculus' tracking solution, are they gonna drop the constellation system in favor of something laser-based and potentially require people to buy all new equipment when the CV2 comes out?
that would make it hard for them to have gen 1.5 hardware like Valve/HTC seem to want to do.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;51500280]I wonder what this means for Oculus' tracking solution, are they gonna drop the constellation system in favor of something laser-based and potentially require people to buy all new equipment when the CV2 comes out?
that would make it hard for them to have gen 1.5 hardware like Valve/HTC seem to want to do.[/QUOTE]
i'm betting they'll go all-in on cameras and try to make them wireless with greater angle coverage
[QUOTE=bitches;51500286]i'm betting they'll go all-in on cameras and try to make them wireless with greater angle coverage[/QUOTE]
I hope they don't. While the camera system works, it definitely has down sides.
For example: every device you add decreases accuracy. This is because cameras can't really track more than one device at the same exact time. In order to get past this Oculus just has the IR lights on the Rift and Touch cycle on and off so that only one controller has light on at any given moment. So when you add a device you're also increasing the amount of time any given button [B]isn't [/B]being tracked.
[editline]New info[/editline]
The Vive technically has a similar limitation, but since the Vive's tracking is the reverse of Rift's, the limitation is also reverse. Because the cameras are on the headset and controllers and the IR lights are on the base stations, there's a limitation on the number of base stations you can have.
[QUOTE=bitches;51500264]still wrong
you place the first two sensors around the upper back of your own computer desk
you string [I]one[/I] cable (a third sensor's) to the other end of your bedroom, which as i seem to need to repeat endlessly, is absurdly trivial
a more valid complaint is needing 3 USB 3.0 ports for tracking
[editline]8th December 2016[/editline]
the appeal is having nicer controllers in exchange for needing a third camera (for those who agree that the Touch controllers are nicer), and then you've got the same roomscale experience
ultimately it's a question of if you think the controllers are nice enough to warrant spending 10% more money[/QUOTE]
That's fair, but yeah I mean, the appeal of an Oculus setup at this point seems to be contingent on you thinking Touch controllers are worth an extra $80 and some extension cables (for headset and for the camera) in order to have room-scale. It just seems like more effort for less return imo.
They had the oculus at best buy today with the touch controllers
got to grab the controllers today and they felt really good in the hands.
the problem is that i couldnt demo it because the headset/pc setup they had at best buy kept not letting the oculus work, when i put it on my head the screen on the oculus would go black and wouldnt work until a reboot, and then when the oculus dude who worked there told me its ready i put it on and the screen goes black again till a reboot (again, all i did was slide it on my head, then it went black and there was a orange light in the headset.) sat there for 20-30 minutes trying to troubleshoot the thing till we both p much just gave up before he basically ignored me for some other guy in the store (along with other bits of rudeness that the oculus guy did that i dont want to get into. it wasn't a best buy employee but a oculus guy who was managing the booth.) and then locked up the entire booth and left.
tl;dr oculus touch controllers felt good. wish i could of actually used them tho.
edit:
pic of the setup btw, its pretty nice and they hid the sensors well in the setup, the two circles on the side are basically the sensor areas
[t]http://i.imgur.com/MJwtbVs.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=srobins;51500362]That's fair, but yeah I mean, the appeal of an Oculus setup at this point seems to be contingent on you thinking Touch controllers are worth an extra $80 and some extension cables (for headset and for the camera) in order to have room-scale. It just seems like more effort for less return imo.[/QUOTE]
The vast majority of buyers will not have enough space for the 13 foot rift headset cable to need any extensions. "More effort" isn't a meaningful argument when it amounts to five minutes of effort.
[QUOTE=Stents*;51500347]I hope they don't. While the camera system works, it definitely has down sides.
For example: every device you add decreases accuracy. This is because cameras can't really track more than one device at the same exact time. In order to get past this Oculus just has the IR lights on the Rift and Touch cycle on and off so that only one controller has light on at any given moment. So when you add a device you're also increasing the amount of time any given button [B]isn't [/B]being tracked.
[editline]New info[/editline]
The Vive technically has a similar limitation, but since the Vive's tracking is the reverse of Rift's, the limitation is also reverse. Because the cameras are on the headset and controllers and the IR lights are on the base stations, there's a limitation on the number of base stations you can have.[/QUOTE]
That's a really interesting claim, got a source on that?
[QUOTE=bitches;51500377]The vast majority of buyers will not have enough space for the 13 foot rift headset cable to need any extensions.[B] "More effort" isn't a meaningful argument when it amounts to five minutes of effort[/B].[/QUOTE]
I think this is a pretty unfair thing to say. The effort to you may be trivial, but again, you can't really account for the majority of buyers.
Honestly, just from what I've read from all the touch reviews coming out, srobins seems to be alright. Oculus is perfectly capable of doing roomscale, and a fine job at it, but in terms of everything working, and ease of set up, it seems Vive's won this one. Every little bit of "effort" that is required more than the vive just adds up to, what sounds to me, to be a lesser experience.
I don't know, maybe I'll have to reserve judgement until I can try it myself. It just doesn't seem that the Rift + Touch will meet my Vive in terms of ease of set up, which is about 5 minutes at my house.
[QUOTE=bitches;51500286]i'm betting they'll go all-in on cameras and try to make them wireless with greater angle coverage[/QUOTE]
Greater angle coverage and resolution seems like a no brainer but transmitting them wirelessly would be painful on latency. Worth noting that increasing FOV without resolution decreases accuracy, and increasing resolution increases latency for cameras. One of the advantages of the vive system is that increasing accuracy is based on the motor control system and timing of the clocks on the tracked controllers. Much easier to scale.
Also I'm not sure why people are focusing on setup as much as tracked area between the sensors, didn't an infograph by Oculus show that your tracked area between the camera cut bits off the edges? You can track pretty much right up to a few cm from the face of a lighthouse.
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;51500444]I think this is a pretty unfair thing to say. The effort to you may be trivial, but again, you can't really account for the majority of buyers.
Honestly, just from what I've read from all the touch reviews coming out, srobins seems to be alright. Oculus is perfectly capable of doing roomscale, and a fine job at it, but in terms of everything working, and ease of set up, it seems Vive's won this one. Every little bit of "effort" that is required more than the vive just adds up to, what sounds to me, to be a lesser experience.
I don't know, maybe I'll have to reserve judgement until I can try it myself. It just doesn't seem that the Rift + Touch will meet my Vive in terms of ease of set up, which is about 5 minutes at my house.[/QUOTE]
with the vive you either screw your tracking stations into two corners of your room, or set up two tripods etc
with the rift you do the same but for one camera (the other two being simply placed on your desk), and route one long USB cable around the edge of your room to your PC
mountains out of molehills
[editline]8th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Elspin;51500448]Greater angle coverage and resolution seems like a no brainer but transmitting them wirelessly would be painful on latency. Worth noting that increasing FOV without resolution decreases accuracy, and increasing resolution increases latency for cameras. One of the advantages of the vive system is that increasing accuracy is based on the motor control system and timing of the clocks on the tracked controllers. Much easier to scale.
Also I'm not sure why people are focusing on setup as much as tracked area between the sensors, didn't an infograph by Oculus show that your tracked area between the camera cut bits off the edges? You can track pretty much right up to a few cm from the face of a lighthouse.[/QUOTE]
i've been wondering how reasonable it would be for the cameras themselves to do low-bandwidth communication with the PC, where a small computer could be inside the camera to calculate the 3d positions and report them back
as for tracking volume, please refer to the images I posted yesterday; the volume is huge and the "margin" is consumed by your own PC desk, plus you can let the desk sensors sweep slightly up and the third (opposing wall sensor) sweep slightly down in order to get tracking all the way to the wall and eliminate occlusion issues
maybe some kind of 3d graphic would help explain, but properly setting up your cameras gets me the full 9x10ft walkable space in my apartment
[QUOTE=bitches;51500459]with the vive you either screw your tracking stations into two corners of your room, or set up two tripods etc
with the rift you do the same but for one camera (the other two being simply placed on your desk), and route one long USB cable around the edge of your room to your PC
mountains out of molehills[/QUOTE]
I kinda agree with you about the MOOM here
[QUOTE]i've been wondering how reasonable it would be for the cameras themselves to do low-bandwidth communication with the PC, where a small computer could be inside the camera to calculate the 3d positions and report them back[/QUOTE]
If they developed a custom non-usb communication bus with proper dedicated signal lines they could have all cameras do a synchronized capture and process them individually however they'd like, and send partially computed data to the PC in a way that would be essentially like the vive. It would be very expensive by comparison, though.
[QUOTE]as for tracking volume, please refer to the images I posted yesterday; the volume is huge and the "margin" is consumed by your own PC desk, plus you can let the desk sensors sweep slightly up and the third (opposing wall sensor) sweep slightly down in order to get tracking all the way to the wall and eliminate occlusion issues
maybe some kind of 3d graphic would help explain, but properly setting up your cameras gets me the full 9x10ft walkable space in my apartment[/QUOTE]
It's not about how big your region can be, it's about how much of the space between the two cameras is usable. It looked like from the image you posted it cut off a good amount of area, but if it's not that much of a margin I'll take your word for it. I'd definitely like to try it for myself at some point but everyone I know bought the vive (as in, I've tried out the rift but not roomscale with the touch)
[QUOTE=bitches;51500459]with the vive you either screw your tracking stations into two corners of your room, or set up two tripods etc
with the rift you do the same but for one camera (the other two being simply placed on your desk), and route one long USB cable around the edge of your room to your PC
mountains out of molehills
[/QUOTE]
I don't screw the tracking stations in, I just have two very fortunate spots in my room to sit them. This obviously doesn't make a great case for the general use of the vive, but the fact remains.
I guess my main problem is, judging by my set up, I couldn't easily set up the rift in my house. I [I]could[/I] set it up, but not in this "set it and forget it" way that I set up the vive. (remember, not everyone is setting up their roomscale headsets in their room, in front of their computer desk)
Again, I should wait until I try it myself to make any proper judgements, but I'm just speaking from all the different reviews I've seen since it came out. They all seem to say the same thing.
[QUOTE=bitches;51500377]The vast majority of buyers will not have enough space for the 13 foot rift headset cable to need any extensions. "More effort" isn't a meaningful argument when it amounts to five minutes of effort.[/QUOTE]
I'm just saying, if you want room-scale with the Rift/Touch you need to:
A) Buy another camera for $80
B) Buy extension cables for the camera
C) Run wires around your room for the camera
D) Possibly purchase an extension cable for the headset (this is a common complaint on /r/oculus)
E) Sacrifice 20% of your space to accommodate the lower camera FOV
All so you can get a room-scale solution that is still not entirely on par with the Vive. Plenty of day one reviews from both Reddit and VR news sites have made a point of this. Even articles that declare Touch the winner of the first generation controllers have included the caveat that the Vive is just better at room-scale, which is why even if you consider this extra effort minimal, you're still putting in time and money to get a sub-par room-scale environment in exchange for a holographic index finger.
[editline]9th December 2016[/editline]
I would also make the point that the Vive is a lot more mobile of a set-up. I take my Vive to parties probably once a month, it's actually become a pretty great unintended bonus getting to liven up parties and transport drunk/high 20 somethings into a world of pure magic. Based on that alone I would recommend people the Vive, honestly. I've set up my Vive in probably 10 different parties and it usually takes me something like 20 minutes to unpack the car and get someone playing Space Pirate Trainer.
Just tried out The Unspoken. Despite the terribly slow-paced trailers, it is a really fun strategy spellcasting game; Insomniac Games really showed again how well they can do VR.
[QUOTE=srobins;51500670]I'm just saying, if you want room-scale with the Rift/Touch you need to:
A) Buy another camera for $80
B) Buy extension cables for the camera
C) Run wires around your room for the camera
D) Possibly purchase an extension cable for the headset (this is a common complaint on /r/oculus)
E) Sacrifice 20% of your space to accommodate the lower camera FOV
All so you can get a room-scale solution that is still not entirely on par with the Vive. Plenty of day one reviews from both Reddit and VR news sites have made a point of this. Even articles that declare Touch the winner of the first generation controllers have included the caveat that the Vive is just better at room-scale, which is why even if you consider this extra effort minimal, you're still putting in time and money to get a sub-par room-scale environment in exchange for a holographic index finger.
[editline]9th December 2016[/editline]
I would also make the point that the Vive is a lot more mobile of a set-up. I take my Vive to parties probably once a month, it's actually become a pretty great unintended bonus getting to liven up parties and transport drunk/high 20 somethings into a world of pure magic. Based on that alone I would recommend people the Vive, honestly. I've set up my Vive in probably 10 different parties and it usually takes me something like 20 minutes to unpack the car and get someone playing Space Pirate Trainer.[/QUOTE]
Clearly we are not going to come to an agreement about if setting cameras on a desk or busting out tripods is easier.
Valve just updated steamvr and the lab for rift folks. steamvr for old devkit compatibility, the lab to give rift users a way to rotate on the spot in case they're using a 180 only setup.
[QUOTE=bitches;51501071]Clearly we are not going to come to an agreement about if setting cameras on a desk or busting out tripods is easier.[/QUOTE]
Oh, for front-facing the Rift is undoubtedly easier to set up. But as far as I'm aware, setting your cameras on a desk isn't going to cut it for room-scale or even 360*, which is what I'm referring to when I say the Vive setup is easier.
[QUOTE=srobins;51501309]Oh, for front-facing the Rift is undoubtedly easier to set up. But as far as I'm aware, setting your cameras on a desk isn't going to cut it for room-scale or even 360*, which is what I'm referring to when I say the Vive setup is easier.[/QUOTE]
So the reason you say the Vive is easier to setup on-the-go is because you need two tripods instead of one?
[QUOTE=bitches;51501408]So the reason you say the Vive is easier to setup on-the-go is because you need two tripods instead of one?[/QUOTE]
I'm not gonna lie, it seems like you've deliberately misinterpreted what he was saying. He's saying it's easier to set up two base stations for 360 roomscale than it is to set up three cameras?
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;51501417]I'm not gonna lie, it seems like you've deliberately misinterpreted what he was saying. He's saying it's easier to set up two base stations for 360 roomscale than it is to set up three cameras?[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry it came across that way. I'm making the argument that two cameras [I]on stands on a desk[/I] plus a single tripod/wall-mount is simpler for demoing than two tripod/wall-mount setups and zero desk cameras, or at least that they're equivalent in this regard. Placing cameras on a desk takes no time at all.
I'm not even saying that it's hard to set up a Vive. I didn't start the argument, I'm just responding to repeated claims that it's somehow harder to set up Rift tracking.
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Virtual Reality General V3 - You've got the Touch
