[QUOTE=IrishBandit;49244948]As an aspiring DM, is it okay to encounter enemies that counter the PCs? For example, if you had a character that was just wrecking everyone with a bow, and then next encounter there are guys with shields that take minimum damage from ranged attacks, mixed in with other enemies.[/QUOTE]
think of it like an actual videogame dude. yes that's fun sometimes because it encourages the party to think outside the box and gets them out of their comfort zone.
[editline]4th December 2015[/editline]
but like anything in life don't overdo it.
[QUOTE=IrishBandit;49244948]As an aspiring DM, is it okay to encounter enemies that counter the PCs? For example, if you had a character that was just wrecking everyone with a bow, and then next encounter there are guys with shields that take minimum damage from ranged attacks, mixed in with other enemies.[/QUOTE]
Ehh, I'd say more give then encounters in close quarters or enemies that can close distance rather than just "you do piss damage because". You want to make it difficult for players to get into a position that lets them be their most powerful, not just make their best worse.
fluffing some mechanics - fine
fudging a roll - fine
telling a player that you fudged a roll - you have fucked up
[QUOTE=IrishBandit;49244948]As an aspiring DM, is it okay to encounter enemies that counter the PCs? For example, if you had a character that was just wrecking everyone with a bow, and then next encounter there are guys with shields that take minimum damage from ranged attacks, mixed in with other enemies.[/QUOTE]
Do shields actually fuck over ranged damage in the system or not?
Because if you just decide "these guys take less damage from ranged attacks because shield" when that's not actually a feature of shields in that system, it'll feel like something random you pulled out of your ass that they couldn't really have seen coming or mitigated in any way.
[QUOTE=IrishBandit;49244948]As an aspiring DM, is it okay to encounter enemies that counter the PCs? For example, if you had a character that was just wrecking everyone with a bow, and then next encounter there are guys with shields that take minimum damage from ranged attacks, mixed in with other enemies.[/QUOTE]
hard countering specific styles of play is typically bad because it means that members of the party feel utterly powerless during certain encounters
it's why "can't be sneak attacked" and "can't be critted" are two of my least favourite mechanics, because they might make sense thematically, but they kill player experience
[QUOTE=Rents;49243784]I always thought those systems were pretty lame unless you're just playing it as a party game.[/QUOTE]
I dunno I had a game of AW and MH and we got pretty into it until the DM couldn't run the game any more because of school and moving plans.
[editline]4th December 2015[/editline]
The systems lend themselves to roleplay over gameplay, and if someone tries to powerplay, it's actually pretty easy to Shut Them Down (bonus points if you got that joke).
Good counter to archers in D&D3.5/PF: Skeletons. DR5 slashing and piercing mother fucker.
[QUOTE=Rents;49245581]Good counter to archers in D&D3.5/PF: Skeletons. DR5 slashing and piercing mother fucker.[/QUOTE]
Better counter to archers: Wizards. Best counter to entire parties, really!
[QUOTE=Chronische;49245662]Better counter to archers: Wizards. Best counter to entire parties, really![/QUOTE]
yeah
it worries me that our sorcerer could literally immolate all of us in about 3 seconds with very little effort
[QUOTE=Rats808;49245150]Reminds me of the time I was playing a lightning/wind-based Sorcerer in Pathfinder, and we ended up going up against a ton of demons, which are immune to electricity damage. Eventually, that character died(by flying into a wall of solid 'fuck off' magic, then getting hit with a fireball). The next session, I came with a fire-based Oracle, ready to kick some demon ass. Suddenly, everything coming at us was devils, who are immune to fire damage.
And then we went into a church and got ambushed by horned devils, and the only spell I had that could hit them was an AoE nuke, and they were all standing around our Ranger in a perfect circle the size of the spell's AoE...
The GM fiated that the Ranger took no damage from it, and the rolls against the horned devils (11d6, iirc), all came up shit, so I continued having very little effect anyways.[/QUOTE]
Just because I used a bow didn't make me a ranger
I was a [i]fighter[/i]
Classist much
Also you literally would have done more damage to me than you would have to all the enemies you hit combined
[QUOTE=Rents;49245581]Good counter to archers in D&D3.5/PF: Skeletons. DR5 slashing and piercing mother fucker.[/QUOTE]
Blunt arrows from the APG sort of negate that, meanwhile your falchion/greatsword wielding fighter shakes his fist at not having an earthbreaker up their sleeve. The caster continues as normal.
Then again, if you want to give a subtle hint to the party's archer to maybe have a backup weapon or some other arrows, ol' bones are a great way to do so.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49245472]fluffing some mechanics - fine
fudging a roll - fine
telling a player that you fudged a roll - you have fucked up[/QUOTE]
trouble is, some players are rather adamant about showing your rolls in public, especially for things like secret perception checks
[QUOTE=DeeCeeTeeBee;49245959]Blunt arrows from the APG sort of negate that, meanwhile your falchion/greatsword wielding fighter shakes his fist at not having an earthbreaker up their sleeve. The caster continues as normal.
Then again, if you want to give a subtle hint to the party's archer to maybe have a backup weapon or some other arrows, ol' bones are a great way to do so.[/QUOTE]
how many archers are going to bring blunt arrows with them before you pull this on them
definitely in the minority.
fighter can pick up a stick
[editline]4th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mellowbloom;49245889]yeah
it worries me that our sorcerer could literally immolate all of us in about 3 seconds with very little effort[/QUOTE]
that can't be pathfinder
i can cast my spells at 3 caster levels above normal and i still can't outdamage the fighters
[QUOTE=lintz;49243802]until the very last session where there was a very tearful confession about their love which was never to be because carnibus ended up getting married to a rich young lady who subsequently ritually murdered her :v:[/QUOTE]
I also ruined that scene by announcing as he removed he helmet (another thing that had not happened until this point) that it reealed the head of Karl Pilkington, which became half-canon.
As for the rules-lite argument. I err on the side of rules light versus a heavy crunch, I'd prefer to spend four hours roleplaying for the majority, with maybe an hour tops going through combat encounters that are theatre of the mind oriented, and I can accept abstractions of reality in aid of that, this is rather than spend 2-3 of those hours going through minutia to grapple some goblins or worry about nine different grades of explosive, their legality, their blast radius, effect on armour etc. forever and having that surround the talky character moments. Then again I hate overly simplified combat as well because tactical options make role playing during combat actually feel like roleplaying with all the nuances, drawbacks, and positives it can have.
Savage Worlds is probably my favourite system because of that, it is light enough to keep things moving steady, but when it's time to roll some dice you have enough options that the trickster can play tricks, the big fuck who hits like a truck is still a tank, and the ranger can hit the dirt and lay down fire, but get fucked if enemies close the gap.
[QUOTE=IrishBandit;49244948]As an aspiring DM, is it okay to encounter enemies that counter the PCs? For example, if you had a character that was just wrecking everyone with a bow, and then next encounter there are guys with shields that take minimum damage from ranged attacks, mixed in with other enemies.[/QUOTE]
Try to think about it from an in-universe perspective, especially if the characters are known to rely on certain tactics then the enemies might start coming up with ways to counter those tactics. I remember in one of the old mass combat adventures it talks about how if your players start relying too much on hiding in the woods with illusion spells then the enemies might start hacking the trees down to counter it. If the enemy faction knows that your party relies alot on ranged weapons then maybe they invest in heavier shields to counter them, or for example (in a higher magic setting), enchanted shields which reduce the damage of arrows.
[QUOTE=Glent;49246641]Try to think about it from an in-universe perspective, especially if the characters are known to rely on certain tactics then the enemies might start coming up with ways to counter those tactics. I remember in one of the old mass combat adventures it talks about how if your players start relying too much on hiding in the woods with illusion spells then the enemies might start hacking the trees down to counter it. If the enemy faction knows that your party relies alot on ranged weapons then maybe they [B]invest in heavier shields[/B] to counter them, or for example (in a higher magic setting), enchanted shields which reduce the damage of arrows.[/QUOTE]
That just gave me an idea, enemies that bring in big tower shields and plant them into the ground for cover.
That works too, except against touch attacks.
[QUOTE=elowin;49246028]how many archers are going to bring blunt arrows with them before you pull this on them
definitely in the minority.
fighter can pick up a stick
[editline]4th December 2015[/editline]
that can't be pathfinder
i can cast my spells at 3 caster levels above normal and i still can't outdamage the fighters[/QUOTE]
nah 5e
the sorcerer could fireball us twice in one turn, bypassing any resistance and we'd probably all die sans the fighter
[QUOTE=IrishBandit;49247673]That just gave me an idea, enemies that bring in big tower shields and plant them into the ground for cover.[/QUOTE]
In my Rogue Trader game I had an Explorator who used a section of Grav Plating from a starship he jury rigged as a shield. When the going got tough he'd plant it in the ground and activate it, essentially forming a new wall.
[QUOTE=Rents;49244816]Being fucked by the GM is always crap but having your character's thing gimped/removed is probably the most discouraging thing you can have happen in a game.[/QUOTE]
Like the time our DM decided three levels into a Pathfinder game that my rogue shouldn't deal sneak attack damage just because the enemy is flanked anymore; I also had to be behind them.
"It's unrealistic," he said as we fought armored orcs in a land occupied by monolithic physically impossible flying lizards that can breathe various elements as weapons.
Anyway, after that I killed the character pretty quickly. If he'd stated that would be a ruling before I made the character, it would have been silly but fair enough.
What an absurd ruling. Completely invalidates the entire class since that's, like, the whole damn point of playing a Rogue. And it makes perfect sense. In combat with a flanked enemy, sneak attack doesn't represent the enemy going, "[I]oh jeez, I forgot you were there and thus am surprised into taking extra damage[/I]", it represents you seizing an opportunity to line up a shot on a vital target while the enemy is distracted by combat with your friend. It represents patiently and deliberately exploiting gaps in your target's defense with a well aimed shot, instead of just going in swinging. It's an arrow to the heart, a slice to the throat, a punctured artery, a severed tendon, etc. I would have seriously deliberated that one with him. I mean, I won't raise a fuss about most rulings I don't agree with because there's no need to make a fuss and slow things down for everybody else when I can just discuss it with him later, but that one in particular is just insidious. A rogue without sneak attack is essentially pointless in combat.
My Neutral Good Kuo Toa cleric just commited xenocide on the entire Sahuagin race because the king of the merfolk offered to send me back to my plane of existence if I did so.
The worst part is after I did it, I destroyed the MacGuffin I was also sent to retrieve and said "fuck you" to the king. Now I'm pretty sure the death I just caused was all for not.
Kept a spare egg of the Sahuagin, but the merfolk know about me having it and demand I destroy it, what do?
[QUOTE=Mellowbloom;49247827]nah 5e
the sorcerer could fireball us twice in one turn, bypassing any resistance and we'd probably all die sans the fighter[/QUOTE]
How's he casting fireball twice in one turn? You can't cast a bonus action and an action spell on the same turn unless the action spell is a cantrip.
[QUOTE=Glent;49249659]How's he casting fireball twice in one turn? You can't cast a bonus action and an action spell on the same turn unless the action spell is a cantrip.[/QUOTE]
And you can't double a fireball with twin spell, either. You ALSO can't cast more than 1 slotted spell even while hasted, so that's not a reason either. Unless he's using a wand of fireballs, and quick casting a fireball from his caster list, but I think even casting from an item follows the limits on slotted spells per turn.
[QUOTE=SiberysTranq;49245930]Just because I used a bow didn't make me a ranger
I was a [i]fighter[/i]
Classist much
Also you literally would have done more damage to me than you would have to all the enemies you hit combined[/QUOTE]
Point being that I was literally useless for most of that game because everything was a hard counter to me, and nuking one of my party members was the only way I could do any worthwhile damage with an AoE I had.
[QUOTE=Rats808;49250144]Point being that I was literally useless for most of that game because everything was a hard counter to me, and nuking one of my party members was the only way I could do any worthwhile damage with an AoE I had.[/QUOTE]
Should've bought a [url=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rods/metamagic-rods/metamagic-elemental]Elemental Metamagic Rod.[/url]
Just make Acid Lightning Bolts and Cold Fireballs.
[QUOTE=Glent;49249659]How's he casting fireball twice in one turn? You can't cast a bonus action and an action spell on the same turn unless the action spell is a cantrip.[/QUOTE]
whelp
looks like somebody needs talking to next session
So I decided that if I was going to make a TV show about our Shadowrun campaign, [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VbODnX0dVs]this'd[/url] be our opening.
Notable events that you could have clips of in the opening include:
[quote]My infiltrator dressing up as a woman
My infiltrator bluffing that he's in a gay relationship with our Street Samurai and causing a fake relationship argument to avoid a police search
Our Streetsam punching a hostage fireman to death in an airport
Us blowing up part of an airport
Us kidnapping a cop
Our street mages imprisoning a cop
Our street sam tossing the cop into the ocean like a throwing hammer
Us getting chased by an attack chopper
My infiltrator getting his knee blown out by corp security while he tries to surrender
My infiltrator punching our street mage in the face
Our decker getting his van trashed by Knight Errant
Most of the party executing a bunch of reporters
Our street mage showing up to a party dressed like a victorian gentleman
My infiltrator pouring a bottle of wine over himself and trashing a restaurant
We visit an underground fist fighting club that gets raided by KE immediately
A garden of corpses serving as hosts and food for insect spirits
Getting chased by an insect spirit in a speedboat
My infiltrator getting shoved out of a moving police car into a gutter
My infiltrator getting tripped, having his arm broken and passing out in a puddle of hot noodles
My infiltrator cries in a squalid street doctor's surgery
The party steals a fishing boat
The party gets lost at sea
The party goes partly insane
The party gets shipwrecked
The party steals a WW2 submarine
Our party gets accused of terrorism
Our street sam explodes his own apartment to evade the cops (I think he killed some?)
My infiltrator getting shot as he runs away from the police
My infiltrator getting drugged by our street mage and going on a [t]The Hangover[/i] style sex rampage[/quote]
We're not very good Shadowrunners. Or we're excellent shadowrunners because we're not dead yet?
Special bonus DLC episodes include avoiding a sub-drone by tricking it into firing a torpedo at an illusion of a giant shark, the Sammy taking out a city block with a car bomb and an airstrike, the party going to a party on an aircraft carrier the size of an island, and the party working at a krill factory under a bunch of cheerful holograms singing the joys of being a productive cog in the machine
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49249593]What an absurd ruling. Completely invalidates the entire class since that's, like, the whole damn point of playing a Rogue. And it makes perfect sense. In combat with a flanked enemy, sneak attack doesn't represent the enemy going, "[I]oh jeez, I forgot you were there and thus am surprised into taking extra damage[/I]", it represents you seizing an opportunity to line up a shot on a vital target while the enemy is distracted by combat with your friend. It represents patiently and deliberately exploiting gaps in your target's defense with a well aimed shot, instead of just going in swinging. It's an arrow to the heart, a slice to the throat, a punctured artery, a severed tendon, etc. I would have seriously deliberated that one with him. I mean, I won't raise a fuss about most rulings I don't agree with because there's no need to make a fuss and slow things down for everybody else when I can just discuss it with him later, but that one in particular is just insidious. A rogue without sneak attack is essentially pointless in combat.[/QUOTE]
twice as shit as well, seeing as rogue is probably one of the most underperforming classes in combat in PF
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