D&D 5e: Nobody Talks about D&D - Games

other classes can get sneak damage tho alongside good stuff

[QUOTE=elowin;49258549]fucking casters really FUCKING CASTERS are you kidding me? Have you ever played Pathfinder? Not only do you think casters have good DPS, but [I]consistently[/I] good DPS? Are you nuts? Blaster casters are a fucking [I]joke[/I], and they're literally [I]the[/I] least consistent due to spell slots. And tier lists are literally bullshit lol. There are no tier lists. Now that that's out of the way... What you call "situational damage," any decent rogue calls "I do this every fucking turn" Sneak attacks are so goddamn easy to get. Even the simplest amount of teamwork will net you constant sneak attacks, because all it requires is to flank someone, which is fucking [I]easy[/I], and for doing it you get what is pretty much the greatest damn single target DPS possible. Basically? Git gud.[/QUOTE] [URL]http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/haste.html[/URL] this one spell adds more DPS and utility than a rogue (in a party with 2 martials or more) you're looking at DPS in terms of single character, where i'm looking at it in terms of party DPS (because that's the metric by which most encounters will be balanced) i don't know why you're getting so mad about this - sneak attack damage is situational damage by definition - rogue has to fulfill a set of conditions that are greater tasks than most other classes. archers add more dps because they're outputting it round after round at full attack frequently - whenever any melee class has to move, it's wasted DPS also 'get good' in a fucking pen and paper roleplaying game are you serious

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49258230]in my experience, they are consistently outdamaged by archers - situational damage is high, but that's irrelevant when you've got classes that put out consistent competitive DPS (archer fighter/monk, fighters, inquisitors, fucking casters) not denying you'll see some big numbers when a rogue gets a chance, but it's getting the chance that is the problem [URL]http://rollforinitiative.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/ranking-pathfinder-classes-updated.html[/URL] [URL]http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11990.0[/URL] [URL]http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?311718-Tier-list-for-PF-classes-or-summary-of-each[/URL] literally cannot find a power ranking for classes in PF where rogue comes even close to top, usually they are dead bottom (admittedly these are flexibility ranking more than anything, but i'm still not seeing what other people see in rogues)[/QUOTE] If rogue was the weakest direct combat class in combat, I would have said it's only fair since they're the best out of combat (with monks and fighters being the worst.) But that's not even true so rogue is just just a powerful class in general.

[QUOTE=NotAName;49258578]If rogue was the weakest direct combat class in combat, I would have said it's only fair since they're the best out of combat (with monks and fighters being the worst.) But that's not even true so rogue is just just a powerful class in general.[/QUOTE] i'm not trying to be a contrarian here, it's just that i've played with a group of people (some of which have been playing PF for fucking centuries), and it's a general understanding that rogues are not good - there are classes that do what they do, far better so anything i'm saying here is based on my own personal experiences of rogue-play, but looking online, i've yet to find anyone talking favourably about rogues other than here

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49258568][URL]http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/haste.html[/URL] this one spell adds more DPS and utility than a rogue (in a party with 2 martials or more) you're looking at DPS in terms of single character, where i'm looking at it in terms of party DPS (because that's the metric by which most encounters will be balanced) i don't know why you're getting so mad about this - sneak attack damage is situational damage by definition - rogue has to fulfill a set of conditions that are greater tasks than most other classes. archers add more dps because they're outputting it round after round at full attack frequently - whenever any melee class has to move, it's wasted DPS also 'get good' in a fucking pen and paper roleplaying game are you serious[/QUOTE] ...You realize that haste doubles your rogue's DPS as well, yes? and yes get good.

[QUOTE=Mellowbloom;49258567]other classes can get sneak damage tho alongside good stuff[/QUOTE] Slayers, a prestige class I forget the name of and a couple of archetypes, and I think only the vivisectionist gets the same amount of it that a straight rogue does. [editline]6th December 2015[/editline] And as an alchemist archetype they're more dependant on int, so they're less likely to be quite as good at stabbing anyway. Slayers are great as an alternative to a front line rogue, you lose some of the skill monkeyness but get medium armour, martial weapons and full BAB, you don't sneak attack just as hard but standard attacks are better than similar rogue builds.

[QUOTE=Rents;49258608]Slayers, a prestige class I forget the name of and a couple of archetypes, and I think only the vivisectionist gets the same amount of it that a straight rogue does. [editline]6th December 2015[/editline] And as an alchemist archetype they're more dependant on int, so they're less likely to be quite as good at stabbing anyway. Slayers are great as an alternative to a front line rogue, you lose some of the skill monkeyness but get medium armour, martial weapons and full BAB, you don't sneak attack just as hard but standard attacks are better than similar rogue builds.[/QUOTE] bane for the inquisitor is a 'sneak-attack' like in terms of pure crunch - not as much damage, but it's more consistent i keep thinking that swashbuckler is a rogue mix for some reason - i've seen some disgusting shit with a swashbuckler (not in terms of damage, but just refusing to take hits) [I]"Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex)"[/I]

I'm playing a rogue in a 5e/homebrew modern thing and I'm the most effective member of the party. Though it might be because with the perks I got I can attack, steal the pin from a grenade on an enemy's belt and then RUN AWAY all in one turn. :v: [editline]6th December 2015[/editline] And I may or may not have slammed a fighter plane into a fire giant, while holding a spear out of the plane's canopy. The giant managed to catch the plane, but then I just stood up and shot him in the face with my pistol.

also i'm miffed because blaster caster is my favorite thing to play, but i consistently get outdamaged by everyone, even when I manage to increase my caster level to 3 over what i'd normally get everyone, but especially [b][i]ROGUES[/i][/b] and then you come here and say rogues don't have great DPS, and [i]dare[/i] to call out us immaculate, pure and innocent casters of all things for having high DPS it's [i][b]BLASPHEMY[/i][/b]

[QUOTE=Rats808;49252160]5e is actually [I]less[/I] complicated, from what I know.[/QUOTE] Speaking of complicated systems, one of my friends is running Lasers & Feelings this week. Probably the smallest rules sheet I've seen in a while. It's barely half a page for players. [url]http://onesevendesign.com/lasers_and_feelings_rpg.pdf[/url]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49258626]bane for the inquisitor is a 'sneak-attack' like in terms of pure crunch - not as much damage, but it's more consistent i keep thinking that swashbuckler is a rogue mix for some reason - i've seen some disgusting shit with a swashbuckler (not in terms of damage, but just refusing to take hits) [I]"Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex)"[/I][/QUOTE] Eh, Bane works more like a limited Greater magic weapon than precision damage. If I remember right the fluff for it is hating something so supernaturally hard it's divine magic and doing more damage that way?

[QUOTE=Rents;49258670]Eh, Bane works more like a limited Greater magic weapon than precision damage. If I remember right the fluff for it is hating something so supernaturally hard it's divine magic and doing more damage that way?[/QUOTE] that'd be particularly amusing considering inquisitors can swap it as a swift - meaning that they're essentially hating something for a 6 second period before going "WAIT FUCK THAT THING IS MUCH WORSE"

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49258686]that'd be particularly amusing considering inquisitors can swap it as a swift - meaning that they're essentially hating something for a 6 second period before going "WAIT FUCK THAT THING IS MUCH WORSE"[/QUOTE] The most powerful inquisitors are the ones who hate everything.

[QUOTE=Rents;49258691]The most powerful inquisitors are the ones who hate everything.[/QUOTE] I thought that was an entry requirement.

i feel like i wandered into a warcraft thread

Everyone is stupid and bad if they disagree with my opinions on class balance. Good thing I don't have opinions on numbers because i'm not some sort of nerd.

classes are dumb anyway

[QUOTE=cdr248;49259043]classes are dumb anyway[/QUOTE] Sounds like you just keep getting schooled. [editline]6th December 2015[/editline] :cool:

this is why we should all play classless systems and instead talk about how certain kinds of dice are unfairly balanced towards some numbers because those numbers are inherently better

[QUOTE=SiberysTranq;49259123]this is why we should all play classless systems and instead talk about how certain kinds of dice are unfairly balanced towards some numbers because those numbers are inherently better[/QUOTE] Or complain about laser entropy rigging your results.

[QUOTE=croguy;49259194]Or complain about laser entropy rigging your results.[/QUOTE] It's not rigged if the numbers you're getting are the numbers you deserve based on your worth as a human being Though speaking of which, last night on Mekton we had something like 3-4 occurrences of characters getting the same results as each other despite having completely different bonuses in the skills in question felt really oddly choreographed, for lack of a better term although then again I'm pretty sure Aperture's mekton roll20 is a pathway to the nether plane because somehow probability just sort of ceases to give a fuck when it's there if I hadn't used a dozen other roll20's that one would definitely be enough to give me the impression roll20 was rigged

[QUOTE=SiberysTranq;49259228]if I hadn't used a dozen other roll20's that one would definitely be enough to give me the impression roll20 was rigged[/QUOTE] I'm not sure why it's like that, but having using Roll20 for years I can safely say that Appy's game is most definitely plagued by Space Wizards. The whole damn Mekton corebook is riddled with the things.

Speaking of me, I have Magical Burst tonight. Magical Burst's [I]two year[/I] anniversary. Two years. [I]Two years.[/I] Magical Burst, two years and running. Two [I]years[/I] of magical lesbians. I am either a god of interminable patience or someone who took a swan dive off the deep end a long time ago, and I'm not sure which.

im pretty sure you're just an alcoholic but i guess alcoholism is pretty similar to taking a swan dive into the deep end so you're not too far off

Thinking about starting a 1-on-1 D&D 5e game with my cousin. Would probably be more focused on story telling instead of fighting, and I'd just make stuff up as we go.

[QUOTE=slayer20;49261693]Thinking about starting a 1-on-1 D&D 5e game with my cousin. Would probably be more focused on story telling instead of fighting, and I'd just make stuff up as we go.[/QUOTE] Sounds like fun. My friend suggested this before but I never thought of a way to do it properly.

As someone running a 1-1 game I highly recommend it if it's someone you get along well with. [editline]6th December 2015[/editline] Meanwhile, on Magical Burst. [quote]10:15 PM - Sarah Stafford: ((I love how this is our medical treatment. "Just put the blood back in")) 10:15 PM - Sarah Stafford: ((I also love how that is a legitimate thing we can do))[/quote]

Woo, I picked up some extra players for my 5e game and we're shaping into a pretty well-rounded party! I've got six players, which is just aces. Now it's no big deal if one or two have to miss a game every now and then. Any more will start to get a bit too cluttered, though. I'm gonna have: A Beastmaster Ranger, a Vengeance Paladin, a Moon Druid, and two Rogues. Not sure what the last player wants to grab yet, but I'm really hoping he leans towards a spellcasting class. Magic is cool, and while Druids and Paladins can piff out a couple spells here and there, they're both primarily combat-focused. Gimme a Wizard, Warlock, or Sorcerer! [editline]6th December 2015[/editline] God I hope I don't blow it as the DM, haha.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49262618]Woo, I picked up some extra players for my 5e game and we're shaping into a pretty well-rounded party! I've got six players, which is just aces. Now it's no big deal if one or two have to miss a game every now and then. Any more will start to get a bit too cluttered, though. I'm gonna have: A Beastmaster Ranger, a Vengeance Paladin, a Moon Druid, and two Rogues. Not sure what the last player wants to grab yet, but I'm really hoping he leans towards a spellcasting class. Magic is cool, and while Druids and Paladins can piff out a couple spells here and there, they're both primarily combat-focused. Gimme a Wizard, Warlock, or Sorcerer! [editline]6th December 2015[/editline] God I hope I don't blow it as the DM, haha.[/QUOTE] 6 players is too much imo, but good luck. Keep a CLOSE eye on the Moon Druid, those are BRUTALLY OP. Make sure they aren't transforming into things they haven't actually ENCOUNTERED. Druids can only turn into things they've seen, so that means you ration out the silliness a bit. Wizards are super cool in 5e, warlocks have some neat UA, but sorcerers are lame. I wouldn't wish being a sorcerer on anyone, it's got less spells than pretty much everyone (spells known), can't cast much more than a wizard, and their sorcery points just can't amp them up enough to be useful.

[QUOTE=Chronische;49262805]6 players is too much imo, but good luck. Keep a CLOSE eye on the Moon Druid, those are BRUTALLY OP. Make sure they aren't transforming into things they haven't actually ENCOUNTERED. Druids can only turn into things they've seen, so that means you ration out the silliness a bit. Wizards are super cool in 5e, warlocks have some neat UA, but sorcerers are lame. I wouldn't wish being a sorcerer on anyone, it's got less spells than pretty much everyone (spells known), can't cast much more than a wizard, and their sorcery points just can't amp them up enough to be useful.[/QUOTE] I'm DMing my first campaign tomorrow and I have 7 players and a Moon Druid, am I doomed? Or does one of the players being a Beastmaster counteract the Moon Druid's power.