Homeworld - Back from the Dead: The game - Games

shame hw1 remaster probably won't have the physical projectiles etc since it's on the hw2 engine [editline]12th February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Why485;47120809][hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA7FbYAmrX0[/hd] Despite how critical I've been with HW1:R, I'm not going to lie, I teared up a little.[/QUOTE] heh, just realized 0:32 actually replaced the original vehicle from HW1 with a Baserunner from Shipbreakers I wonder if Shipbreakers will take place just before HW1 (discovering the Khar-Toba, clan wars etc) or if it could be even before that (discovering the second hyperspace core, Hiigaran empire) probably the former, although I think the latter would be more interesting

The baserunner was always bassed off that vehicle from the Homeworld intro (Since shipbreakers began as a 'not Homeworld' and then became it.) Still wondering how they're going to do Ship breakers, considering the Khar-Toba was the only ship found originally. The clans didn't unite until the guide stone was found, so there could be reason for them to fight over the site.

[QUOTE=Gunner th;47127062]The baserunner was always bassed off that vehicle from the Homeworld intro (Since shipbreakers began as a 'not Homeworld' and then became it.) Still wondering how they're going to do Ship breakers, considering the Khar-Toba was the only ship found originally. The clans didn't unite until the guide stone was found, so there could be reason for them to fight over the site.[/QUOTE] the Khar-Toba site was huge anyway since it used to be the largest city on the planet. The guidestone was in an underground chamber, not on the ship, so finding it could have taken years. other ships on the desert doesn't really make sense unless they change it to general remains of the Hiigaran refugee civilization.

[QUOTE=Zezibesh;47127085]other ships on the desert doesn't really make sense unless they change it to general remains of the Hiigaran refugee civilization.[/QUOTE] Or they change them to be bits of the Khar-Toba that broke off miles away from the main wreck. [editline]df[/editline] Actually, I just thought of something else. If they wanted to ditch the LM-27/Kharak deserts, they could base it off the Sajuuk's Wrath, which was slammed into Angel moon before the exodus. Very little's been written about Sajuuk's Wrath, so they could go rather freeform with it if they wanted.

[QUOTE=Why485;47120809][hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA7FbYAmrX0[/hd] Despite how critical I've been with HW1:R, I'm not going to lie, I teared up a little.[/QUOTE] The sound... fuck me, that was beautiful what they've done with it.

The Guidestone was found in the Khar-Toba (which is the name of the city and the ship, the whole thing just means 'first city' according to the manual), they just aren't specific on where. It'd make more sense to be closer to the ship, since the city sprung up around it, and the Guidestone is shown to have been found in a metallic chamber, which means it would have had to have been within the ship, or close to it, as the only structures made with the ship's hull and parts are the ones closest to it. The Power plant and hyperspace module were found outside of the ship in a large, underground chamber (in 111)2. It had been moved to power the city and provide life support to make it habitable. Once the Power plant and Hyperspace module were found, most of the archeologist and engineers left the site. The Guidestone was found 23 years after the Powerplant (in 1135). The Kiith didn't unite until 1155 though. So there's a 45 year period from the discovery of the Khar-Toba to a fully united Kharak. There's enough room for ship breakers there. A few minor conflicts happened during the excavation (and some described 'accidents), and there were some minor Kiith who refused to join the united effort (There are many incidents of sabotage on both the excavation of the Khar-Toba, and construction of the Mothership). There is potential of there being other ships that made it down to Kharak. Four of the prison ships made it to the planet. The Khart-Toba was the one first discovered, but that doesn't mean the other three didn't make it down to the planet, somewhere. It's also likely that the Khar-Toba was cannibalized to build the Mothership. They needed every last material Kharak had to offer, and indeed, exhausted Kharak's resources in the process. By the time the Mothership was done, the Kharak system was nearly depleted of materials, and Kharak would only be able to sustain a population for a few century at best.

ahhhhh I wasted 4 hours catching up the Homeworld lore and missed my class. ffuuuuuucccckkkk

[QUOTE=Gunner th;47127487]The Guidestone was found in the Khar-Toba (which is the name of the city and the ship, the whole thing just means 'first city' according to the manual), they just aren't specific on where. It'd make more sense to be closer to the ship, since the city sprung up around it, and the Guidestone is shown to have been found in a metallic chamber, which means it would have had to have been within the ship, or close to it, as the only structures made with the ship's hull and parts are the ones closest to it. The Power plant and hyperspace module were found outside of the ship in a large, underground chamber (in 111)2. It had been moved to power the city and provide life support to make it habitable. Once the Power plant and Hyperspace module were found, most of the archeologist and engineers left the site. The Guidestone was found 23 years after the Powerplant (in 1135). The Kiith didn't unite until 1155 though. So there's a 45 year period from the discovery of the Khar-Toba to a fully united Kharak. There's enough room for ship breakers there. A few minor conflicts happened during the excavation (and some described 'accidents), and there were some minor Kiith who refused to join the united effort (There are many incidents of sabotage on both the excavation of the Khar-Toba, and construction of the Mothership). There is potential of there being other ships that made it down to Kharak. Four of the prison ships made it to the planet. The Khart-Toba was the one first discovered, but that doesn't mean the other three didn't make it down to the planet, somewhere. It's also likely that the Khar-Toba was cannibalized to build the Mothership. They needed every last material Kharak had to offer, and indeed, exhausted Kharak's resources in the process. By the time the Mothership was done, the Kharak system was nearly depleted of materials, and Kharak would only be able to sustain a population for a few century at best.[/QUOTE] This reminds me that I need to go dig up my Homeworld manual. I lost it when my parents shuffled the house around and I haven't seen it since.

The entire manual is within the game files too. Look in the game folder under documents.

speaking of the manual, if there's any people here who haven't played the game yet and are waiting for the remastering to play it, I recommend reading the lore section of the manual before playing since there's a lot of cool stuff

Some German journalists play through 30 mins of HW1:R, mission 4 (minor spoilers): [url]http://www.gamestar.de/videos/previews,18/homeworld-remastered,81561.html[/url] Stuff I noted: - bananaship can't be upgraded with HW2-style modules - you can build, select and move individual fighters and corvettes - there's a Vaygr logo on a captured Taiidan frigate, I assume that means you can select your enemy's logo for the campaign - resource gathering at the end of the campaign happens in real time since there's no time acceleration in the beta yet. So looks like there's no HW2-style fade-to-black for gathering resources at the end of a mission - no turrets on the ambassador corvette as promised! - asteroids now have glowy veins when you're harvesting them - kinda sounds like you can load HW1R savegames with HW1...? somethingsomething in some remastered halo game you can switch between old and remastered with a button press and in Homeworld you have to "switch over yourself". Not completely sure how to interpret that. - no more fuel - apparently uses HW2's dynamic campaign difficulty - ships move in a HW2-like fashion as opposed to HW1-style - uses some basic infrasturcture from HW2 like just rightclicking to move units instead of M-clicking - HW2-style building and researching interface, I don't see the old blueprint-graphics in any of those menus, tho I did see them when purchasing tech from the Bentusi - HW2-style building queues instead of working in parallel like in HW1 - he feels the HUD's a bit small, and although there are buttons to upscale the HUD, the levels right now basically go from "normal -> too huge -> holy shit that's huge -> now it's taken over the entire screen", not sure if that's a beta bug or intended for large screens. - corvettes necessary to capture a destroyer are up from 3 to 4, so looks like Multiplayer balance has an effect on the campaign - turanic ion frigates have their solar sails extended even when not firing, might be just a bug since they sometimes fold together while captured. - like in HW1, captured ships first have to enter the hangar before they're under your control - Turanic carrier is now labeled Mothership - The HW1 bonus mission with the Turanic raiders won't be included in HW1:R

[thumb]http://i.imgur.com/pJavK5p.jpg[/thumb] Looks like preview copies are out!

Some of those things sound disappointing, but expected. Expected problems form using Homeworld 2's engine. Some of those things can be fixed by modders at least.

Is the classic version included in this the actual original game unchanged, or is it just like a downgraded version of the remaster?

[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;47128030] - kinda sounds like you can load HW1R savegames with HW1...? somethingsomething in some remastered halo game you can switch between old and remastered with a button press and in Homeworld you have to "switch over yourself". Not completely sure how to interpret that. [/QUOTE] He might be talking about the Halo Anniversary editions, where you could switch between remastered and original graphics at any point in-game by pressing a button. Not sure how it'd work for this though, seeing as Halo could do it because they used the original engine, whereas HW1:R's on the HW2 engine, not the HW1 one. Iunno, maybe they've straight-ported the assets from HW1 to HW2 so that you can have a pseudo-original option to flick to. [QUOTE=nightlord;47128494]Is the classic version included in this the actual original game unchanged, or is it just like a downgraded version of the remaster?[/QUOTE] AFAIK All signs are pointed to the former plus improvements to make them run fine on modern systems. But like I said, we don't really know what they're doing at this point.

Two more things from an FAQ related to the video I linked above: -Ships now have to dock for repairs instead of using a repair beam. (I guess docking fighters/corvettes for repairs is now the support frigate's sole function?) -You can change the color of your ships in HW1 but there is no more possibility to play as the Taiidan. [url="http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=410192"]via[/url] Looks like there's actually quite a bit of engine limitations at work here when it comes to gameplay, not exactly what I hoped for, tho I did expect some rough edges when I heard it's all been ported into the HW2 engine instead of a new one. I think I'll hold off on this until I see what the modding community can pull off.

Was really hoping they would use HW1's flight system, especially for smaller ships. The fighter combat was so much better.

Watching that gameplay video and as someone who modded Homeworld 2, H1:R has basically all the issues I was expecting to arise as a glorified mod. I'm glad to see parallel building is still in the game though, as that's a huge one that I wasn't sure if was going to make it into Remastered. While I am excited that the game looks as smooth as HW2, I will very much miss all the little things that made the first game so special that were lost in the second. I think it sucks a lot of the character out of the game, but there were probably very good reasons (I hope) for why they couldn't go as far as I think they should have. [editline]12th February 2015[/editline] Sounds are what I take issue with the most as it's something that [I]should[/I] be able to be ported over 1:1. All of HW1's sounds were super iconic to me and they seem to have inconsistently kept sounds. Some things sound the similar, most sound different , and some are just straight from HW2. I'm hoping that these preview builds are just incomplete. There's still a couple weeks until release. Fuel I'm not surprised is gone, but I wonder if that was more of a balance issue than a technical limitation. Not being able to play Taiidan in campaign isn't a big deal to me. I always thought it was weird you could do that in the first place. The loss of repair beams and harvesting beams really sucks because that means support frigates are going to lose a lot of their mobility when they're going between capital ships to repair them. The harvesters clamping onto asteroids and turning on a spotlight looks really strange and it's a real shame they can't orbit like they used to. Fighters don't hold their formation after combat starts. The new formations seem to just be the strike groups of HW2. They're only good for organization when moving ships, but the formation would always break apart and ships engage individually once the fighting starts. Since all fighters are now just fighter squadrons of 1, this means that all the ships in a formation break apart and fly separately as soon as the fighting starts. You don't get claws, deltas, and walls flying around together anymore.

Ships also just fly at each other, then fly away. There's no climbing dog fights like in Homeworld. I'm already planning a sound mod, since it seems like lots of Homeworld 2 sounds and some remixed Homeworld ones. The voices in the demo were also the Homeworld 2 pilot voices, but another one had what sounded like the old pilot voices. So I'm a bit confused there. Homeworld 2's voice engine was also less advanced then Homeworld's. Far less situational responses.

Man, I really was hoping for Homeworld 1's dogfights. Kinda disappointing. On the other hand, I wish i wasn't because i feel like that's such a relatively minor detail but I'm sure its gonna bother me to the point that I might end up playing the original over the remastered version. Also for some reason, even before i knew all the little details about homeworld, I always played HW1 (and cataclysm) to the point where it was too difficult for me to progress, whereas homeworld 2 for some reason despite the nice graphics it didn't click as much for me, and I never really knew why.

Homeworld 2's campaign just... wasn't good. I've heard it best described as a series of scavenger hunts tied together.

[QUOTE=Hammernipples;47130282]Homeworld 2's campaign just... wasn't good. I've heard it best described as a series of scavenger hunts tied together.[/QUOTE] Don't talk shit on Sajuuk.

Bring Sajuuk to bear [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GLmboCnLQY[/media] Homeworld 2 is fairly bad in terms of Homeworld and continuity though. The reason it was bad was because of how disjointed it was and all the retcons. The script was so condensed that nothing makes much sense, and the retcons ruin half the game's back story. It made a lot more sense in the dustwars script, where the game took place 1000 years after Homeworld. There was going to be two main enemy, the Vayger and the T'mat. They gave an actual reason for needing Sajuuk and the progenitor stuff. There was also no magic hyperspace cores. Instead the magic was the ghost of Karan S'jet was haunting all the hyperdrives of the Hiigarans. The reason was everything about her was imprinted onto the Mothership's hyperspace drive, and ever drive is a copy of that one, so many fragments of S'jet's memory were all over. More or less S'jet was recreated during the campaign as a machine copy. The whole reason for the Progenitor stuff was to stop the T'mat from getting it. The progenitors were also explained. They're autonomous machines that came into the galaxy millions of years before with the mission of seeding the galaxy with life and technology. They'd come into a galaxy, leave the framework for galactic civilization, and then fuck off to the next galaxy. Sajuuk was left behind as a controller for the Progenitor infrastructure, which is still used at the end of the game with the eye of aran. It makes no sense in the context of Homeworld 2, but actually makes sense in the original script. You still had to gather 3 magic cores, but they were all Progenitor cores that were found, but not the one found in Homeworld. The Vayger had one, the Bentusi had one, and the Hiigaran found the third one early in the campaign. Sadly, next to nothing of Dustwars was left. The project was too big and ambitious and Sierra canceled Homeworld 2 originally. They renewed the project early in 2002/late 2001. So the Homeworld 2 we got is a small, disjointed fragment of what it was meant to be. Homeworld 2 we got was gather the magic cores to revive the magic robot for, some reason. Sajuuk was a McGuffin. Homeworld 2 was find the McGuffin to solve a problem caused by finding the McGuffin. The T'mat planet killers at the end had no purpose either. They're supposed to fire a giant beam that destroys planets. instead they show up and, launch little missiles. Okay. The 100 year timeline is just too short. Where did all the Taiidan stuff go? There was still canonically a Taiidan republic which makes no appearance. The Vayger swallowed up what was left of the old Taiidan empire (what wasn't given to the Hiigarans and Republican Taiidan). Also, why was there only one Bentusi ship left? There was never an explanation. The Bentuisi are never well explained anyways, but they're the 'protector' race left behind by the Progenitors. That's why they're the only ones in the galaxy who had any understanding of Progenitor tech.

pre-hw lore is fine (sajuuk's wrath, the hiigaran core etc) but I didn't like the direction HW2 itself went HW1 > Cataclysm > HW2

[QUOTE=Gunner th;47133929]Homeworld 2 lore stuff[/QUOTE] Cataclysm will always be the real Homeworld 2 to me for all of these reasons. It fits in better, as far as I can tell.

HW2 went a step off the wall, which was the problem. The major problem is just the chunk of Homeworld it retcons. The magic core would have been fine if it wasn't the thing that made the Mothership work. Again in the original script, there was a Hiigaran core, but they didn't have it during the events of Homeworld. They hid it during the original fall of Hiigara and it wasn't found again for another 5000 years, at the start of the Dust wars. If the Progenitor core was the one on the Khar-Toba, how did the Kushan reverse engineer it? The Progenitor cores can't be taken apart (save for the containment unit). So it doesn''t make sense for it to be the core found on Kharak, as there wouldn't have been any real way to study the device and how it worked. The kushan only got to build a few small prototype for a hyperspace drive, due to their lack of resources. They had to go straight into building one large enough for the Mothership once they figured out how to make the device function. If they just found the Progenitor core on Kharak, how would they have done these tests and studies if they couldn't dissemble the original core? Cataclysm may be non cannon from relic's point of view, but Cataclysm was built into the original cannon written after Homeworld. It still follows the end of Homeworld well. And, given the original Homeworld 2 script, could have fit in just fine (due to the length of time passing).

A lot of Homeworld 2's story has never sat well with me for a great many reasons that Gunner has already listed. In general I tend to interpret Homeworld 2, and [B]especially[/B] its retcons to the first game, as a non-canon spinoff of the first game. To me, the game's strength and longevity came from its pretty well balanced and great gameplay (even if it is "worse" than HW1), fun modability, and ultra slick presentation.

The modability is definitely a major factor in why HW2 lasted so long, same for a game I do work on called FreeSpace 2. Though FS2 had the source code released, HW2 did not and the things some people have done for HW2 are pretty astounding considering. It's still a shame about there being no remastered Cataclysm either, I'd have loved to see that. e: Also Dust Wars was something I'm really unhappy about how it got scrapped, a lot of it (as Gunner describes) sounded really good, but that's the way it went.

[QUOTE=Hammernipples;47134312]It's still a shame about there being no remastered Cataclysm either, I'd have loved to see that.[/QUOTE] I think in an interview with The Escapist they said it's not *completely* off the table, but they also implied that, since it's a whole 'nother difficulty level without access to rights, source code and assets, it would require a big and interested customer base to pitch the project.

[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;47134652]I think in an interview with The Escapist they said it's not *completely* off the table, but they also implied that, since it's a whole 'nother difficulty level without access to rights, source code and assets, it would require a big and interested customer base to pitch the project.[/QUOTE] We can only hope that HW:R sells enough to justify it. Hell, if they released some DLC I'd buy it if it meant more proof that Homeworld has demand as a series.