Fallout V23: "I got another thread that needs your help." - Games

[QUOTE=fulgrim;49303866]If they were going to sink so much effort into the protagonist having a voice they should have given us a selection to choose from, with each voice having a few phrases and a brief description of how they generally deliver their lines. I can't be bothered to do a second play-through because ill just be playing the same cookie cutter character with a different face, multiple voices would have helped negate this imo[/QUOTE] If they hired, let's use as an example 4 other voice actors for different voices, we would have even less dialogue and choices. Voice acting is still expensive and time consuming. Saints Row can get around it because the boss has less lines than the courier during OWB intro However, nothing excuses them from not adding a pitch modifier option with the new voiced protagonist feature. As you said, hearing the same voice saying the same things with the same tone gets even more grating than just reading it.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49303402]No thanks, I'm 100% with you on everything else but removing the voice is just nonsense, I mean we're regressing for what reason exactly? Every other AAA RPG on the market has a voiced protagonist and for good reason, it allows you to have actual conversations instead of NPCs spouting off expositions at you, it makes your character feel like a part of the world instead of just a floating weapon that spits out text prompts at people. The voiced protagonist isn't the reason dialogue is so disjointed and lacking in depth anyway, it's all on Bethesda, their writers were lazy or just didn't care enough to write proper responses to what dialogue options we have available, and their game designers are at fault as well for not paying any attention to how other games used the dialogue wheel correctly.[/QUOTE] Removing the voiced protagonist wouldn't strictly be regressing. The point of a silent protagonist is that you - the player - are meant to fill the role. Not "every other AAA RPG on the market" has a voiced protagonist, that's an exaggeration. But if you're referring to games like The Witcher and Mass Effect there's a huge key difference between those games and Fallout: you don't create your character. Commander Shepard and Geralt are already characters, you don't hold much sway over their personalities. The same principle applies to Fallout, add a voice and personality to the protagonist and you limit the player's freedom to roleplay.

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49303914]If they hired, let's use as an example 4 other voice actors for different voices, we would have even less dialogue and choices. Voice acting is still expensive and time consuming. Saints Row can get around it because the boss has less lines than the courier during OWB intro However, nothing excuses them from not adding a pitch modifier option with the new voiced protagonist feature. As you said, hearing the same voice saying the same things with the same tone gets even more grating than just reading it.[/QUOTE] I did think that, but to be honest most dialogue choices in fallout 4 are various ways of saying "sure, ill do it" or "i did that thing you told me to" so it wouldn't be that taxing to record such short lines a few more times.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49303910]Fallout 1 had a self-contained, limited feel to it that I genuinely liked. It's a rather short game, in a very small environment, where each location rarely has more than five quests (most of which are solved on the spot, within minutes of getting them). The game is built around a simple framework that plays with its own limitations and manages to make amazing things out of practically nothing. Fallout 2 felt like they tried shoving way too much into the same framework to the point it became a caricature. Less original and interesting designs, more real world and lazy designs. It's a prime example for me of Quality beating Quantity by a long shot.[/QUOTE] Well, at least you explained it. Can't say i agree with a single word of your post, but hey, opinions.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;49302010]They didn't start development the day after Fallout 3 released. They had a whole other game between Fallout 3 and 4.[/QUOTE] Well not literally the day after, but they started designing Fallout 4 after Fallout 3 was done; so they were destining Fallout 4 while making Skyrim. Todd Howard said that if you remember Fallout 4's initial announcement. [editline]12th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Atlascore;49303402]No thanks, I'm 100% with you on everything else but removing the voice is just nonsense, I mean we're regressing for what reason exactly?[/QUOTE] Adding features ≠ Progress

[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;49303923]Removing the voiced protagonist wouldn't strictly be regressing. .[/QUOTE] I think everyone has to keep that first sentence in mind. Voiced protags aren't necessarily an 'improvement' and removing them is in no way a regression. It's ridiculous people think that voice protags should be a standard in RPGs like this.

It's pretty clear that Fallout 4 wasn't built around the roleplay aspect (as in purely pretend to be someone else) and instead offered an experience that focuses on the player himself. The RPG mechanics come into play in a choice of how you, as the player, choose to play the game, not how you decide your made up character will interact with the world. It's a different design decision that drastically impacted the game. It took the game in a widely different direction, one that people clearly didn't expect it to go. It's no longer about what the character you made would do in a situation and more about what you would like to see happen in that situation. Ultimately whether that system is better or worse than what Fallout 3/NV offered is up to each player's own experience, there isn't one that's objectively better than the other.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49303402]No thanks, I'm 100% with you on everything else but removing the voice is just nonsense, I mean we're regressing for what reason exactly? Every other AAA RPG on the market has a voiced protagonist and for good reason, it allows you to have actual conversations instead of NPCs spouting off expositions at you, it makes your character feel like a part of the world instead of just a floating weapon that spits out text prompts at people. The voiced protagonist isn't the reason dialogue is so disjointed and lacking in depth anyway, it's all on Bethesda, their writers were lazy or just didn't care enough to write proper responses to what dialogue options we have available, and their game designers are at fault as well for not paying any attention to how other games used the dialogue wheel correctly.[/QUOTE] Seriously how can people want to go back to that caveman style shit? If this was optimized and developed upon, this could easily make FO5 GOTY. As a proof of concept, it's pretty excellent. It's got a legit good pair of voice actors now too, so the only problem is that they didn't hammer out more lines.

I must say that since release date this game has had me hooked, Ive played for 30 hours and level 26 and chilling at my own pace is awesome. The apocalyptic theme in the city is crazy shit and I love it, just feel like it needs to be way more difficult, even though I dont use power armour being sat on 50 stims feels like a breeze

I feel like there was supposed to be something at [sp]The Sentinel Site[/sp] that got cut, Its just way too big to have nothing but ghouls, I must've missed something.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49303951]It's pretty clear that Fallout 4 wasn't built around the roleplay aspect (as in purely pretend to be someone else) and instead offered an experience that focuses on the player himself. The RPG mechanics come into play in a choice of how you, as the player, choose to play the game, not how you decide your made up character will interact with the world.[/QUOTE] Man you really liked that ErrantSignal video, didn't you Call of Duty isn't a RPG because i remapped my controller scheme and took the higher path instead of the low one though. Team Fortress 2 isn't a RPG because i can pick several different classes and "play as i want" Fallout 4 as a rpg is closer to Borderlands than Baldur's Gate. Guess which one people remember when you talk about role playing games though. You can defend F4 as much as you want and feel free to do it because it's not a bad game, but it is a terrible rpg in every single aspect. No "it's focused on the player not the player character" bullshit, please.

[QUOTE=fulgrim;49302375]What did you do to make this gun?, because im having no luck building any kind of weapon that rapid fire's railway spikes[/QUOTE] You have to use the railway rifle as the base weapon. player.additem fe268 1 is the code incase you need one and don't care about using console commands. Here's all the attachments I'm using. I actually refined it some more since originally posting it. [thumb]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/402308172479433034/8B2F3539908131223562BCB933718433BECD6397/[/thumb]

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49303951]It's pretty clear that Fallout 4 wasn't built around the roleplay aspect (as in purely pretend to be someone else) and instead offered an experience that focuses on the player himself. The RPG mechanics come into play in a choice of how you, as the player, choose to play the game, not how you decide your made up character will interact with the world. It's a different design decision that drastically impacted the game. It took the game in a widely different direction, one that people clearly didn't expect it to go. It's no longer about what the character you made would do in a situation and more about what you would like to see happen in that situation. Ultimately whether that system is better or worse than what Fallout 3/NV offered is up to each player's own experience, there isn't one that's objectively better than the other.[/QUOTE] It's a shame that the game now constructed around this idea embraces all the faults that people criticized Fallout 3 for having. Certain lore elements cease to make sense, retcons are heavy and the entire world feels a lot less consistent with itself. While in Fallout 3 you could just pass this off as poor writing, it seems intentional in 4, and that really sucks.

I feel like in this day and age it's perfectly possible to either put voice acting on everything or nearly nothing, but only one of these decisions can work for a AAA game. Games like Pillars of Eternity and Shadowrun have proved that it's doable and that there certainly is an audience for that kind of thing, but Bethesda is clearly trying to hit a broader audience than the niche market Pillars of Eternity and Shadowrun are touching for a bunch of reasons, starting with the fact the budget is immense so they have to actually hit a big audience to make it worthwhile.

Who even play tested Covenant anyway? The turrets around the place aren't even attached to the settlement's defense level, and when I placed my own it proceeded to attack every non-hostile turret in sight.

[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;49303996]It's a shame that the game now constructed around this idea embraces all the faults that people criticized Fallout 3 for having. Certain lore elements cease to make sense, retcons are heavy and the entire world feels a lot less consistent with itself. While in Fallout 3 you could just pass this off as poor writing, it seems intentional in 4, and that really sucks.[/QUOTE] What retcons are there in Fallout 4 exactly ?

[QUOTE=MrHeadHopper;49303952]Seriously how can people want to go back to that caveman style shit? If this was optimized and developed upon, this could easily make FO5 GOTY. As a proof of concept, it's pretty excellent. It's got a legit good pair of voice actors now too, so the only problem is that they didn't hammer out more lines.[/QUOTE] Well, not having voiced player characters ultimately means more lines for voiced NPCs. And like previously mentioned, you're not just playing a character but [I]creating[/I] one too, and with the current setup players are very limited in determining how they want their character to be (and not just because of voice acting, but that's another discussion). You could solve the issue by hiring more voice actors to voice the player. But that, again, takes away lines from NPCs. It's kind of a lose-lose situation. You can't have your cake and eat it at the same time.

[QUOTE=MrHeadHopper;49303952]Seriously how can people want to go back to that caveman style shit? If this was optimized and developed upon, this could easily make FO5 GOTY. As a proof of concept, it's pretty excellent. It's got a legit good pair of voice actors now too, so the only problem is that they didn't hammer out more lines.[/QUOTE] It's not caveman style shit from gaming's stone age where RPGs were crafted from rocks and they could only afford voice actors for everyone but the main character. It's a design choice that's pretty integral to making your own character, generally the blanker the slate the better. Frankly if you can't suspend your disbelief to imagine your character saying the words when you choose the option, I don't think this is the series for you.

Saying the game would have more voice acting for NPCs if the TWO voice actors for the protag had not been hired seems like a pretty big conclusion to make, considering none of the Bethesda games before had a voiced protagonist and they didn't have any more lines for NPCs as a result. [editline]13th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Bread_Baron;49304038]Frankly if you can't suspend your disbelief to imagine your character saying the words when you choose the option, I don't think this is the series for you.[/QUOTE] The same argument can be used in favor of voiced lines though.

I guess it depends on where their focus is, whether they want to increase the VA budget or something else. Ultimately it all comes down to money, and how they distribute it.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49304044] The same argument can be used in favor of voiced lines though.[/QUOTE] No it can't? Not only F4 is the only Fallout with a voiced protagonist, you can't seriously say that asking someone to imagine a house without giving them any context is the same thing as telling them to imagine a house while you show them a picture of one. [QUOTE=DeEz;49304077]I guess it depends on where their focus is, whether they want to increase the VA budget or something else. Ultimately it all comes down to money, and how they distribute it.[/QUOTE] To be honest the voices wouldn't be as distracting if at least the lines were good and meaningful Before increasing the VA budget i'd rather Bethesda to double their writing one (removing Emil in the process would be a pleasant bonus).

I pushed Cait in the furnace by accident. [t]http://i.imgur.com/U1OizBr.jpg[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/MCkVZPR.jpg[/t] [I][B]Yer gonna fockin burn for this ya daft bitch.[/B][/I]

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49304014]What retcons are there in Fallout 4 exactly ?[/QUOTE] Ghouls are now zombies who don't need to eat or drink (sometimes) for some reason, Enclave power armor is pre-war somehow, quantum is everywhere in boston despite only being shipped out in small quantities to DC, Jet is a pre-war drug now (this isn't actually a retcon they just admitted they don't care), claims liberty prime worked from the start and fought in anchorage, a random-out-of-nowhere battle on the fucking moon is established, etc. a lot of these are just continuations or extensions of oddities 3 introduced, but some completely random, pointless lore retcons exist like bringing cats back (i know fallout bible isn't completely canon but [I]come on[/I]), claiming potatoes are extinct, introducing a random Assaultron robot that has like, synth levels of AI. The further I go the more nitpicky and pointless this all becomes but you get the idea of the inconsistent world that this type of player-centric roleplaying encourages over player-character centric roleplaying.

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49304084]No it can't? Not only F4 is the only Fallout with a voiced protagonist, you can't seriously say that asking someone to imagine a house without giving them any context is the same thing as telling them to imagine a house while you show them a picture of one.[/QUOTE] Some people will have an easier time with the former and some people will have an easier time with the latter. Other people will not have a preference and will be able to imagine a house regardless of you showing them a picture or not. The argument works either way.

[QUOTE=DeEz;49304077]I guess it depends on where their focus is, whether they want to increase the VA budget or something else. Ultimately it all comes down to money, and how they distribute it.[/QUOTE] VA budget was drastically increased, but the thing is, it still wasn't enough.

The trouble is, I imagine it'd be hard to go back now. Imagine Fallout 4 being the only game with a voiced protagonist. I predict that if the next Beth Fallout game has an unvoiced protagonist, people will be shouting at Bethesda for being lazy, money-grubbing dickholes.

[QUOTE=Jamsponge;49304110]The trouble is, I imagine it'd be hard to go back now. Imagine Fallout 4 being the only game with a voiced protagonist. I predict that if the next Beth Fallout game has an unvoiced protagonist, people will be shouting at Bethesda for being lazy, money-grubbing dickholes.[/QUOTE] Good thing we don't have to worry about that for about another 7 years or so.

[QUOTE=Hogie bear;49304120]Good thing we don't have to worry about that for about another 7 years or so.[/QUOTE] I wonder what it means for the next Elder Scrolls though.

Wait, where did they establish the moon battle and prime working? Also, funny thing about extinct potatoes, I read that terminal, and right after I went to deal with something at the Finch farm and heard the mom threaten to have her son peel potatoes.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49304014]What retcons are there in Fallout 4 exactly ?[/QUOTE] Off the top of my head -Prewar Vertibirds (they were in the prototype stage before the war but never put to use until afte 2077) -The war happening early in the morning now. -People actually taking the sirens seriously, even though its been established a lot of people ignored them because of previous false alarms. And some places didn't even get a warning. -Vaults aren't completely sold out and are still accepting people -Super Mutants... AGAIN -Nuka Cola Quantum anywhere outside of DC.