Fallout V23: "I got another thread that needs your help." - Games

[QUOTE=Jamsponge;49304110]The trouble is, I imagine it'd be hard to go back now. Imagine Fallout 4 being the only game with a voiced protagonist. I predict that if the next Beth Fallout game has an unvoiced protagonist, people will be shouting at Bethesda for being lazy, money-grubbing dickholes.[/QUOTE] I [I]hope[/I] Fallout 4 is the only Fallout game with a voiced protag. I wouldn't find it hard to go back at all. I REALLY want them to go back. I know they won't, because people like ~*~ cinematic dialogue ~*~ instead of well written dialogue but I'll still hope.

[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;49304097]a random-out-of-nowhere battle on the fucking moon is established,[/QUOTE] wait what [QUOTE]At an unknown point in history, an armed conflict occurred on the Moon, with combat known to have taken place in the region of the Mare Tranquillitatis (Sea of Tranquility) lunar mare. The United States fought in the war against unknown enemies, and it is implied that the Americans won the conflict. [/QUOTE] what the FUCK

[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;49304097]Ghouls are now zombies who don't need to eat or drink (sometimes) for some reason,[/QUOTE] The games have ALWAYS been really inconsistent and vague on that. Fallout 4 is as well. [QUOTE] Enclave power armor is pre-war somehow, [/QUOTE] Spawning in ruins is just a gameplay thing, the game still states that it's post-war. [QUOTE] quantum is everywhere in boston despite only being shipped out in small quantities to DC[/QUOTE] Why can't it have been spread around by traders post-war and retailers pre-war? [QUOTE]Jet is a pre-war drug now (this isn't actually a retcon they just admitted they don't care),[/QUOTE] I've always just assumed that Jet was the name of the pre-war equivalent to what Myron made too. [QUOTE]claims liberty prime worked from the start and fought in anchorage, [/QUOTE] If you're talking about how they keep saying Liberty Prime helped in the war: They don't literally mean Prime fought in it. Technological advancements made while working on him went towards power armor and energy weapons; there's a similar situation IRL with the moon mission and plenty of everyday technology. [QUOTE] a random-out-of-nowhere battle on the fucking moon is established, [/QUOTE] I haven't heard anything about this, but considering the period between the divergence and the war is basically the Cold War if something happened, then taken up to eleven, it doesn't sound out of place to me. [QUOTE]pointless lore retcons exist like bringing cats back (i know fallout bible isn't completely canon but [I]come on[/I]),[/QUOTE] This isn't a retcon. [QUOTE] claiming potatoes are extinct,[/QUOTE] They are. They were replaced by Tatos. [QUOTE] introducing a random Assaultron robot that has like, synth levels of AI.[/QUOTE] It makes sense that the US military would have a speedier robot than Sentry Bots, and they only seem to be at Mr. Handy levels, with some exceptions like KLEO (who match up with exceptions in other kinds of robots, like Curie and Codsworth). Wow, that's one big wall of text.

[QUOTE=Yotrig;49303994]You have to use the railway rifle as the base weapon. player.additem fe268 1 is the code incase you need one and don't care about using console commands. Here's all the attachments I'm using. I actually refined it some more since originally posting it. [thumb]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/402308172479433034/8B2F3539908131223562BCB933718433BECD6397/[/thumb][/QUOTE] Cheers, i was running into trouble because certian attachments would cause it to fire plasma or bullets despite it still making the railway woosh sfx

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49304105]Some people will have an easier time with the former and some people will have an easier time with the latter. Other people will not have a preference and will be able to imagine a house regardless of you showing them a picture or not. The argument works either way.[/QUOTE] It's not a point of being easier or harder. Showing them the picture will influence you in some way and restrict your creativity whether you wanted it or not. If i tell you i will give you any car but it will be red because that's the color i wanted to pick before giving it you, i'm not giving you the same freedom of choice as giving you any car in any color. And because you know your car will be red, some options will seem more fit than others, and as soon as you drive it all you will see around will be red cars. There's no way around this. A voiced protagonist will always have the same voice and the same tone and demeanor to the same situations regardless if i'm black, white, asian, good, evil, energy weapon, melee fighter, BoS, Minutemen, Institute and etcetera. No "ifs" and "buts". The argument might work both ways (arguably) but they are far from being the same thing.

[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;49304097]Ghouls are now zombies who don't need to eat or drink (sometimes) for some reason[/QUOTE] Regular ghouls still have to eat and drink (why wouldn't they ? Where is it mentioned) and the feral ones eat whatever they can find, or end up starving to death. [QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;49304097]Enclave power armor is pre-war somehow[/quote] [url=http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/3/39/FO4_X-01_loading_screen.jpg]No it's not[/url] [QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;49304097]quantum is everywhere in boston despite only being shipped out in small quantities to DC, Jet is a pre-war drug now (this isn't actually a retcon they just admitted they don't care)[/quote] When is Jet ever mentioned to be pre-war ? As for Quantum, that's fairly minor - even in Fallout 3 the quantities in which you could find Quantum was already far above what "small quantities" would have actually been. [QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;49304097]claims liberty prime worked from the start and fought in anchorage, a random-out-of-nowhere battle on the fucking moon is established, etc.[/QUOTE] I haven't completed the BOS quest line yet, but who exactly mentions Liberty Prime being in Anchorage ? Depending on who it is, it may be a misinterpretation of history. As for the battle on the moon, it's not a retcon, just an addition. A weird one, sure, but an addition nonetheless and not a retcon. [QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;49304097]a lot of these are just continuations or extensions of oddities 3 introduced, but some completely random, pointless lore retcons exist like bringing cats back (i know fallout bible isn't completely canon but [I]come on[/I]), claiming potatoes are extinct, introducing a random Assaultron robot that has like, synth levels of AI. The further I go the more nitpicky and pointless this all becomes but you get the idea of the inconsistent world that this type of player-centric roleplaying encourages over player-character centric roleplaying.[/QUOTE] Artificial Intelligence has been around for a while and considering Mr Handy and Mr Gutsy robots are also capable of having (however limited) personalities, it's not out of the question that Assaultrons followed the same principle. As you said cats being extinct was nothing more than a single mention in a book that's questionably canon, and they decided to revert the change because it ultimately made more sense to have cats survive than them dying for some reason.

[QUOTE=_charon;49304176]The games have ALWAYS been really inconsistent and vague on that. Fallout 4 is as well. Spawning in ruins is just a gameplay thing, the game still states that it's post-war. Why can't it have been spread around by traders post-war and retailers pre-war? I've always just assumed that Jet was the name of the pre-war equivalent to what Myron made too. If you're talking about how they keep saying Liberty Prime helped in the war: They don't literally mean Prime fought in it. Technological advancements made while working on him went towards power armor and energy weapons; there's a similar situation IRL with the moon mission and plenty of everyday technology. I haven't heard anything about this, but considering the period post-war is basically the Cold War if something happened, then taken up to eleven, it doesn't sound out of place to me. This isn't a retcon. They are. They were replaced by Tatos. It makes sense that the US military would have a speedier robot than Sentry Bots, and they only seem to be at Mr. Handy levels, with some exceptions like KLEO (who match up with exceptions in other kinds of robots, like Curie and Codsworth). Wow, that's one big wall of text.[/QUOTE] The games have never ever stated that ghouls don't need to eat or drink. An entire ending in fallout 1 is based around ghouls dying because they don't have water. Quantum is rare as fuck and I'm not buying that it ended up in Boston of all places with that much quantity. Plus, it's placed in pre-war locations. you'd be wrong, Jet is an original drug made by Myron. well, not anymore. Now it's a pre-war drug. it's nice that you think the moon battle is cool but fallout lore already established the state of the moon and no wars were fought on it. potatoes were literally in fallout 3. they forgot [I]one[/I] game ago that potatoes weren't extinct. KLEO and PAM are much smarter than any Mr Handy, although the fact two Mr Handy's in this game have seemingly developed free-will is another matter in it's own.

Isn't the only source of that Moon War stuff the mural in the Museum of Freedom?

I saw a mod one here somewhere that allowed you to scrap anything in the immediate vicinity of a settlement. Can someone link me to that mod? I've been searching and can't find it in a reasonable amount of time...

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49304186]Regular ghouls still have to eat and drink (why wouldn't they ? Where is it mentioned) and the feral ones eat whatever they can find, or end up starving to death. [url=http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/3/39/FO4_X-01_loading_screen.jpg]No it's not[/url] When is Jet ever mentioned to be pre-war ? As for Quantum, that's fairly minor - even in Fallout 3 the quantities in which you could find Quantum was already far above what "small quantities" would have actually been. I haven't completed the BOS quest line yet, but who exactly mentions Liberty Prime being in Anchorage ? Depending on who it is, it may be a misinterpretation of history. As for the battle on the moon, it's not a retcon, just an addition. A weird one, sure, but an addition nonetheless and not a retcon. Artificial Intelligence has been around for a while and considering Mr Handy and Mr Gutsy robots are also capable of having (however limited) personalities, it's not out of the question that Assaultrons followed the same principle. As you said cats being extinct was nothing more than a single mention in a book that's questionably canon, and they decided to revert the change because it ultimately made more sense to have cats survive than them dying for some reason.[/QUOTE] I'm gonna quickly rattle through this because I'm getting tired of responding to my post broken up into lists - * Child ghoul in FO4 lives in fridge in complete isolation with no food or water for 200 years * Jet is mentioned to be pre war in two terminals and shipped to a vault. Quantum is minor but inexcusable because they established it literally one game ago. *I was wrong about lib prime i think *As I mentioned above, it's not even like the consumer robots have limited personalities. two of them develop free-will in this game.

Also the only reason people didn't ignore the sirens at the start of fallout 4 is because the army was here to shove people out of their homes specifically in Sanctuary. Everywhere else people just ignored it and got blasted to ashes.

The cat stuff doesn't make any sense because we had four games covering a large expanse of the USA and no cats around, nor a single person commenting about them or a single trace of their mere presence anywhere. Then suddenly they're all over Boston for reasons. It's not a matter of being in the Fallout bible or not, all the other games followed this line of thought (including 3) and just putting cats out of nowhere and saying "JK THEY WERE ALIVE ALL ALONG!!!!!" feels wrong. And i bet all my caps that Bethesda will find a way to bring horses back too in a DLC It's never too early to leave assets for Elder Scrolls VI!

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49304186]When is Jet ever mentioned to be pre-war ?[/QUOTE] Jet is now placed in areas it couldn't possibly have got into after the war. The other day i broke into a room in a pre-war old peoples home to find a skeleton surrounded by jet inhalers and med-x, so unless you want to argue that someone managed to pick the lock, place jet in the hands of a pre-war corpse, and then somehow lock the door again, im pretty sure that means it's now pre-war. It's also all over that [sp]addict themed[/sp] vault and is mentioned in terminal entries from before the war.

[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;49304223]*As I mentioned above, it's not even like the consumer robots have limited personalities. two of them develop free-will in this game.[/QUOTE] It's a recurrent theme that Artificial Intelligence in Fallout ultimately evolves into full blown free-will, self-aware AI after a certain amount of time. Fallout 2 established this and if SkyNet managed to become self aware back in 2241 it's fair to assume other AIs have done the same in more time. The only inconsistency with this is the fact Codsworth pretty much developed one immediately and even then it's fair to assume that being a consumer grade robot he already had a bit more of a personality than other robots and as such didn't take as long to develop a more complex one. If it still bothers you, rads fucked with robots and made their CPU fuck up and gave them a personality. Rads always explain everything.

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49304228]The cat stuff doesn't make any sense because we had four games covering a large expanse of the USA and no cats around, nor a single person commenting about them or a single trace of their mere presence anywhere. Then suddenly they're all over Boston for reasons. It's not a matter of being in the Fallout bible or not, all the other games followed this line of thought (including 3) and just putting cats out of nowhere and saying "JK THEY WERE ALIVE ALL ALONG!!!!!" feels wrong. And i bet all my caps that Bethesda will find a way to bring horses back too in a DLC It's never too early to leave assets for Elder Scrolls VI![/QUOTE] Why did the previous games need to bother showing us cats? You're not going to see everything there is in the world. I would think cats of all pets would survive anyways, they breed like crazy when you let them, will live just about anywhere in any conditions, and are incredibly proficient at living off whatever food is available. Also the "horses are extinct" thing is just kinda dumb imo, if only because it's more interesting if there's still a possibility of seeing some, so I'd be happier if that was retconned (which it doesn't really need to be, seeing as I don't think it exists outside Avellone's word).

Maybe a specific vault in Boston kept cats for morale and pest control and that's why they are only found in Boston. Scribe Quinlin saw a cat and was like "aww shit gotta study this fine ass muthafucka" hence the cat in the Prydwen. Cats existing is a huge nitpick that's pretty inconsequential. [QUOTE=_charon;49304246] Also the "horses are extinct" thing is just kinda dumb imo, if only because it's more interesting if there's still a possibility of seeing some, so I'd be happier if that was retconned (which it doesn't really need to be, seeing as I don't think it exists outside Avellone's word).[/QUOTE] I agree with this too, rule of cool. If you don't wish that NCR Rangers also used horses for scouting and mobility you are a loser. Of course, the horses would have 2 heads. Or 6 legs, that would be funky. I mean realistically birds would be the first thing to go extinct, there would be so much dust and shit in the air their lungs would be destroyed, they have absolutely no food sources for some time after the war, and people would totally hunt the shit out of them. Yet in New Vegas and Fallout 4, birds are everywhere and with no visible mutation. I could believe vultures would survive though, plenty of carrion in the wasteland.

I wish the MIRV had a greater spread. As of right now, it's somewhat disappointing that all the nukes land in a tight cluster.

i like cats

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49304186]I haven't completed the BOS quest line yet, but who exactly mentions Liberty Prime being in Anchorage ? Depending on who it is, it may be a misinterpretation of history. As for the battle on the moon, it's not a retcon, just an addition. A weird one, sure, but an addition nonetheless and not a retcon.[/QUOTE] Only place I remember saying that was a science company just west of the CIT ruins. Cambridge polymer labs. they say that the company worked on liberty prime that liberated Alaska

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49304243]It's a recurrent theme that Artificial Intelligence in Fallout ultimately evolves into full blown free-will, self-aware AI after a certain amount of time. Fallout 2 established this and if SkyNet managed to become self aware back in 2241 it's fair to assume other AIs have done the same in more time. The only inconsistency with this is the fact Codsworth pretty much developed one immediately and even then it's fair to assume that being a consumer grade robot he already had a bit more of a personality than other robots and as such didn't take as long to develop a more complex one. If it still bothers you, rads fucked with robots and made their CPU fuck up and gave them a personality. Rads always explain everything.[/QUOTE] I don't [I]like[/I] explaining poor writing with headcannon. Sure, it's been a theme in fallout, but two mr handy's develop free-will in this game, and they're not the only two mr handy's to be floating about for 200 years. I can't recall any Mr Handy's that are self-aware, free-will enabled in any Fallout games (though I honestly may be wrong) It just seems, yknow, lazy. Like they really wanted to add in a cool robot companion but he still needs to be able to disagree with what you do, and they also wanted to add a cool-laser firing robot that's never been seen anywhere before but is literally everywhere in boston.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;49304250]Maybe a specific vault in Boston kept cats for morale and pest control and that's why they are only found in Boston. Scribe Quinlin saw a cat and was like "aww shit gotta study this fine ass muthafucka" hence the cat in the Prydwen.[/QUOTE] Honestly from a lore standpoint this is very believable. A single vault dedicated to cat people tasked with preserving cats post-war. Vault-Tec has built vaults for far more questionable purposes than that.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;49304250]Maybe a specific vault in Boston kept cats for morale and pest control and that's why they are only found in Boston. Scribe Quinlin saw a cat and was like "aww shit gotta study this fine ass muthafucka" hence the cat in the Prydwen.[/QUOTE] I thought it was implied that Vault 81 had all the cats. Also about Jet, it can always be assumed that there was a drug pre-war that was put in an inhalator, and that Myron may have partially gotten the idea from that. Furthermore, nobody is supposed to remember Myron and his work, so all drugs that closely remember jet would just be called jet in universe, since nobody remember that it was invented in 2241, let alone who remembers it - as far as the people of the commonwealth are concerned, Jet has always been around.

I agree that Cats being around makes more sense than them going extinct because cats are pretty much apex predators as far as basically any small animal is concerned, but the fact they are perfectly normal domesticated moggies is dumb imo.

[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;49304266]I don't [I]like[/I] explaining poor writing with headcannon. Sure, it's been a theme in fallout, but two mr handy's develop free-will in this game, and they're not the only two mr handy's to be floating about for 200 years. I can't recall any Mr Handy's that are self-aware, free-will enabled in any Fallout games (though I honestly may be wrong) It just seems, yknow, lazy. Like they really wanted to add in a cool robot companion but he still needs to be able to disagree with what you do, and they also wanted to add a cool-laser firing robot that's never been seen anywhere before but is literally everywhere in boston.[/QUOTE] There's Andy in FO3 who is arguably as intelligent as Codsworth [editline]12th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=fulgrim;49304283]I agree that Cats being around makes more sense than them going extinct because cats are pretty much apex predators as far as basically any small animal is concerned, but the fact they are perfectly normal domesticated moggies is dumb imo.[/QUOTE] They haven't been out in the wastes long enough to begin mutating, they got out of Vault 81.

[QUOTE=_charon;49304246]Why did the game need to bother showing us cats? You're not going to see everything there is in the world. I would think cats of all pets would survive anyways, they breed like crazy when you let them, will live just about anywhere in any conditions, and are incredibly proficient at living off whatever food is available. Also the "horses are extinct" thing is just kinda dumb imo, if only because it's more interesting if there's still a possibility of seeing some, so I'd be happier if that was retconned (which it doesn't really need to be, seeing as I don't think it exists outside Avellone's word).[/QUOTE] Why only people in Boston kept cats as pets? If they breed as crazy why can't you see a single one in the entire west coast, the midwest and washington? why people don't even recall the idea of what a cat is anymore if they're still around and the game is just not showing us? or there's something in the commonwealth that protected it's entire cat population somehow? it's not a matter of showing everything, but it makes no goddamn sense for cats to survive in only an arbitrary area of the country. everyone treated cats as extinct till new vegas - you can't add it out of nowhere without it feeling strange. and i don't see anything wrong with certain types of animals being extinct. that's far from being the least realistic thing in fallout

Cerberus was aware that he was programmed. He'd give out the canned pro-ghoul intro, then proceed to comment on the fact that he'd kill them all if it wasn't for his combat inhibitor.

[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;49304266]I can't recall any Mr Handy's that are self-aware, free-will enabled in any Fallout games (though I honestly may be wrong)[/QUOTE] This could mean anything, but the Handy in your Megaton house would say things like "Not that I really want to.", and Cerberus held a deep hatred for the ghouls he was protecting in Underworld. Obviously, they were still under the control of their programming, but that seems like self-awareness; maybe Codsworth managed to work his way to free will as well over those two centuries, whereas those two were still being maintained by folks who would rather not have their robots turn on them. And we know Curie was programmed in such a way that she was allowed to develop free will.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49304276]I thought it was implied that Vault 81 had all the cats. Also about Jet, it can always be assumed that there was a drug pre-war that was put in an inhalator, and that Myron may have partially gotten the idea from that. Furthermore, nobody is supposed to remember Myron and his work, so all drugs that closely remember jet would just be called jet in universe, since nobody remember that it was invented in 2241, let alone who remembers it - as far as the people of the commonwealth are concerned, Jet has always been around.[/QUOTE] ??? Why would "all drugs that resemble jet be called jet"? Because the original creator of jet is forgotten? That doesn't make any sense. Also, just because a drug is in an inhaler doesn't make it jet. that's the worst excuse for pre-war jet i've ever seen, and I've seen peter hines try and defend it.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;49304284] They haven't been out in the wastes long enough to begin mutating, they got out of Vault 81.[/QUOTE] This is the best explanation IMO. We'd be seeing vicious cat packs roaming around otherwise.

[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;49304296]??? Why would "all drugs that resemble jet be called jet"? Because the original creator of jet is forgotten? That doesn't make any sense. Also, just because a drug is in an inhaler doesn't make it jet. that's the worst excuse for pre-war jet i've ever seen, and I've seen peter hines try and defend it.[/QUOTE] Not exactly a drug aficionado here, but people generally just call any kind of crack cocaine "crack", regardless of who made it, where it came from, or what it's made of. If it quacks like a duck, it may as well be a duck I don't care I'm gonna goddamn inhale it.