Fallout V23: "I got another thread that needs your help." - Games

Question: does this game still have place for the "rob everything" type of player? There doesn't seem to be a distinction between robbed/found items anymore, no? Also they seem to have removed the thing where you can buy shit and steal back your caps (which admittedly was a bit game-breaking but I liked it :v: )

[QUOTE=Number-41;49322459]Question: does this game still have place for the "rob everything" type of player? There doesn't seem to be a distinction between robbed/found items anymore, no? Also they seem to have removed the thing where you can buy shit and steal back your caps (which admittedly was a bit game-breaking but I liked it :v: )[/QUOTE] There are still owned items in some places that will agro NPC's that catch you stealing them.

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49322401]Not wanting to be the devil's advocate, but I think Vault 108 with the Gary clones is one of the most unique and memorable vaults in the entire series. Even though Vault 87 was a shitty excuse to have Super Mutants, it makes much more sense than Fallout 4's fresh Super Mutant excuse, where there is no clear explanation for how there are large numbers of them in downtown Boston. And while there are hints the institute has something to do with them, it's still not clear if they created them or tried to find a cure (of which the first I find highly laughable because the Super Mutant lab is like 1 room with 4 experiment pods, you cannot tell me the entire population of Mutants in Boston came from that little, on top of anyone in the institute not noticing either).[/QUOTE] Absolutely there,atleast they tried to make some sense to it in fallout 3,but in fallout 4 they totally lose their shit and fucked everything up. If it's not for the gunplay of course,when it's for gunplay bethesda are the BEST at this.. and of course i have to add the weapon customization is not what we all expected,the only very customiseable weapon is pipe and you can just switch automatic,boltaction,or normal,and then everything else you just take the best mods which up your damage the most. I literally NEVER cared for firerate,or even weapons resistance by NPC when i was making my weapons. Just took the best damage i could.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;49321559]The thing about the silly receiver shit is that yes it doesn't necessarily make sense, but neither does a gun doing more damage than another gun that fires the same round, nor does it make sense that your guns somehow do more damage per shot with a higher guns skill. Unique weapons wouldn't make sense, either. How does Maria do more damage than the standard 9mm?[/QUOTE] I'm honestly not really a fan of skill changing how much damage you do, either. As for different guns with the same caliber doing different damage, that's fine, to a degree. A little fudging doesn't hurt anyone if it isn't too obvious, and there are actually a few reasons why two guns using the same ammunition could deal different damage, primarily muzzle velocity. Fallout: New Vegas did that fine, for the most part. Every weapon using the same caliber did damage in a fairly similar range. There are a few outliers, but pretty much the only significant ones are the Automatic Rifle and Christine's Sniper Rifle. Fallout 4 is just way, way too obvious about it, even before weapon mods the damage differences between some guns using the same exact ammunition is huge. Afterwards, they get absolutely insane. And of course, it doesn't help that it pretty much feels like they're rubbing my face into how little sense it makes every time I mod a weapon, because of the damage being tied to the weapon's receiver of all things.

[QUOTE=Number-41;49322459]Question: does this game still have place for the "rob everything" type of player? There doesn't seem to be a distinction between robbed/found items anymore, no? Also they seem to have removed the thing where you can buy shit and steal back your caps (which admittedly was a bit game-breaking but I liked it :v: )[/QUOTE] If it is anything like Skyrim you can always toggle collision off and fly below the map and loot everything from the "store container".

[QUOTE=elowin;49322540]I'm honestly not really a fan of skill changing how much damage you do, either. As for different guns with the same caliber doing different damage, that's fine, to a degree. A little fudging doesn't hurt anyone if it isn't too obvious, and there are actually a few reasons why two guns using the same ammunition could deal different damage, primarily muzzle velocity. Fallout: New Vegas did that fine, for the most part. Every weapon using the same caliber did damage in a fairly similar range. There are a few outliers, but pretty much the only significant ones are the Automatic Rifle and Christine's Sniper Rifle. Fallout 4 is just way, way too obvious about it, even before weapon mods the damage differences between some guns using the same exact ammunition is huge. Afterwards, they get absolutely insane. And of course, it doesn't help that it pretty much feels like they're rubbing my face into how little sense it makes every time I mod a weapon, because of the damage being tied to the weapon's receiver of all things.[/QUOTE] New Vegas had the whole "more points in Guns skill increases damage" though And it was fine. New Vegas and F3 to an extent were still RPGs so your skills giving your advantages and being tied to your damage output was expected. Fallout 4 though scrapped almost every inch of rpg aspects the game had so of course people will expect more realism from the gunplay, since the game is painting itself as a competent shooter instead of a competent RPG now.

[QUOTE=Number-41;49322459]Question: does this game still have place for the "rob everything" type of player? There doesn't seem to be a distinction between robbed/found items anymore, no? Also they seem to have removed the thing where you can buy shit and steal back your caps (which admittedly was a bit game-breaking but I liked it :v: )[/QUOTE] I really wish trade caravans and any merchant you killed had all their loot stored, so if you killed them you could become rich as shit. It'd be broken but it really annoys me that a pack brahmin has NOTHING.

All the problems with Jet in Fallout 4 could be fixed if they just changed it to Turbo. It does exactly what Turbo did in New Vegas and there's no lore preventing it from existing before the war. Hell a drug that makes you react more quickly would probably be quite popular in the high stress world of pre-war Fallout.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;49322623]All the problems with Jet in Fallout 4 could be fixed if they just changed it to Turbo. It does exactly what Turbo did in New Vegas and there's no lore preventing it from existing before the war. Hell a drug that makes you react more quickly would probably be quite popular in the high stress world of pre-war Fallout.[/QUOTE] except turbo is literally jet strapped to a can of hairspray [IMG]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/b/b6/Turbo.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49322586]New Vegas had the whole "more points in Guns skill increases damage" though And it was fine. New Vegas and F3 to an extent were still RPGs so your skills giving your advantages and being tied to your damage output was expected. Fallout 4 though scrapped almost every inch of rpg aspects the game had so of course people will expect more realism from the gunplay, since the game is painting itself as a competent shooter instead of a competent RPG now.[/QUOTE] I completely disagree. If it were still diceroll based combat like in ye olde original Fallouts, then sure. The higher guns skill, in that case, represents something. You do more damage because you hit your opponent more accurately, that makes perfect sense. However, in the new Fallouts, aiming has become the players job, and suddenly your Guns skill represents absolutely nothing. It's just magical extra damage, which makes no sense.

[QUOTE=Number-41;49322459]Question: does this game still have place for the "rob everything" type of player? There doesn't seem to be a distinction between robbed/found items anymore, no? Also they seem to have removed the thing where you can buy shit and steal back your caps (which admittedly was a bit game-breaking but I liked it :v: )[/QUOTE] Fallout never had any distinction between robbed and found, once you take something it's yours as long as you're not seen taking it. You can absolutely play the game by stealing everything off everyone and some companions are even designed well with kleptomaniac players :v:

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49322637]Never got why some people thought the skills tied to gunplay didn't make much sense. Sure, it might not be entirely realistic, but NV (and yeah F3 to an extent) is a RPG, not a full on shooter. Weapon base damage, based on condition, with the additional determination of your skill stats on the weapon's eventual damage output doesn't need to make sense, it's not a full on realistic S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or Call of Duty (or something) shooter, especially since it's a RPG with shooter stuff under the hood like I said.[/QUOTE] Weapon skill should determine recoil, weapon sway, reload speed, accuracy, and speech checks related to guns. It shouldn't magically make your bullets do more damage. It's something I thought was terrible in all the 3D Fallout games and I was hoping that by having perks replace skills we would be able to move away from that, sadly they leaned even more heavily into it. Increasing your strength to do more melee damage makes sense because you can put more force into your attacks, the same can be assumed for melee weapon skills. With firearms no amount of training or force of will should make a piece of chemically propelled lead hit harder.

New Vegas was on the right track with the skill requirements. Magical extra damage is dumb and boring, but requiring 100 Guns to properly control the minigun's recoil, for example, was really great. Even better since it didn't outright prevent you from using it, like skill requirements usually imply.

[QUOTE=elowin;49322642]I completely disagree. If it were still diceroll based combat like in ye olde original Fallouts, then sure. The higher guns skill, in that case, represents something. You do more damage because you hit your opponent more accurately, that makes perfect sense. However, in the new Fallouts, aiming has become the players job, and suddenly your Guns skill represents absolutely nothing. It's just magical extra damage, which makes no sense.[/QUOTE] If anything a 100-something based skill for guns would only work if increasing it would increase the chance to hit in vats as well as weapon sway and reload speed, but the instant it starts touching damage it's worthless. [editline]15th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=_charon;49322675]New Vegas was on the right track with the skill requirements. Magical extra damage is dumb and boring, but requiring 100 Guns to properly control the minigun's recoil, for example, was really great. Even better since it didn't outright prevent you from using it, like skill requirements usually imply.[/QUOTE] I liked the skill requirement but the STR requirements, while a good idea, were far too steep in a lot of cases.

[QUOTE=bananarBanana;49322640]except turbo is literally jet strapped to a can of hairspray [IMG]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/b/b6/Turbo.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] [img]http://jesusfuck.me/di/YMZ3/ok.png[/img] ok It obviously still wouldn't make sense before the war, but it's certainly not [i]just[/i] jet taped to a can of hairspray.

Christ i still don't know what faction should i stick with, whole thing just keeps getting more and more complex. [sp]I mean the damn Institute network is already so full of malware planted by me its a wonder those damn wise-asses don't notice. BoS seems like a bunch of assholes now with guns blazing style method of dealing things, and while i am not too deep into institute feels like they are hiding something behind the smiles. Like that fucking Vat of FEV they liked so much to dip people into.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49322678]If anything a 100-something based skill for guns would only work if increasing it would increase the chance to hit in vats as well as weapon sway and reload speed, but the instant it starts touching damage it's worthless. [editline]15th December 2015[/editline] I liked the skill requirement but the STR requirements, while a good idea, were far too steep in a lot of cases.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Janus Vesta;49322673]Weapon skill should determine recoil, weapon sway, reload speed, accuracy, and speech checks related to guns. It shouldn't magically make your bullets do more damage. It's something I thought was terrible in all the 3D Fallout games and I was hoping that by having perks replace skills we would be able to move away from that, sadly they leaned even more heavily into it. Increasing your strength to do more melee damage makes sense because you can put more force into your attacks, the same can be assumed for melee weapon skills. With firearms no amount of training or force of will should make a piece of chemically propelled lead hit harder.[/QUOTE] Honestly surprised to be agreeing with you two, but this is pretty much the exact same hope I had before Fallout 4 came out. Although being the cynical bastard I am, I highly doubted it would actually happen because Bethesda Bethesda never changes

[QUOTE=ripsipiirakk;49322692]Christ i still don't know what faction should i stick with, whole thing just keeps getting more and more complex. [sp]I mean the damn Institute network is already so full of malware planted by me its a wonder those damn wise-asses don't notice. BoS seems like a bunch of assholes now with guns blazing style method of dealing things, and while i am not too deep into institute feels like they are hiding something behind the smiles. Like that fucking Vat of FEV they liked so much to dip people into.[/sp][/QUOTE] You're giving Beth too much stock I'm afraid

[QUOTE=elowin;49322709]Honestly surprised to be agreeing with you two, but this is pretty much the exact same hope I had before Fallout 4 came out. Although being the cynical bastard I am, I highly doubted it would actually happen because Bethesda Bethesda never changes[/QUOTE] This being said I'm fine with skills being entirely gone because the new perk system does a good job at picking up the same system, and the fragmentation of the former benefits of skills into more specific perks is nice. Like instead of just leveling up some magical stat that makes all of your proficiency with a gun better, you get several perks that improve several aspects of using a gun.

the point of skills is to make character more distinctive than the other. Joshua sawyer explained that in his tumblr about why he didnt merged "melee" and "Unarmed" like they did with "Doctor" and "First aid" because they played the same ways. I don't understand why people don't like the skills point. Now it's just "Charismatic character,strong character,endurant character" when it was before "A strong character which is pretty bad with weapon" or "A agile character very sneaky" or "An intelligent doctor" like you had profession. And it makes it even better when you have a level cap.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49322790]This being said I'm fine with skills being entirely gone because the new perk system does a good job at picking up the same system, and the fragmentation of the former benefits of skills into more specific perks is nice. Like instead of just leveling up some magical stat that makes all of your proficiency with a gun better, you get several perks that improve several aspects of using a gun.[/QUOTE] And back to completely disagreeing, phew. Almost thought it was opposite day or something.

[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;49322793]the point of skills is to make character more distinctive than the other. Joshua sawyer explained that in his tumblr about why he didnt merged "melee" and "Unarmed" like they did with "Doctor" and "First aid" because they played the same ways. I don't understand why people don't like the skills point. [B]Now it's just "Charismatic character,strong character,endurant character" when it was before "A strong character which is pretty bad with weapon" or "A agile character very sneaky" or "An intelligent doctor" like you had profession.[/B] And it makes it even better when you have a level cap.[/QUOTE] I don't see how the perk system is any different to the skill system in this regard. You can still play a strong character with no weapon skills, you can still be a charismatic but weak, or a doctor character. I agree that Bethesda's implementation of perks is boring (25% damage boosts, amazing) but that's not a problem with perks. It's the same was in Fallout 3 all the Small Guns skill did was increase damage, except now instead of doing it in 100 point increments you do it in large chunks. The vast majority of the problems with Fallout 4 come down to Bethesda's lack of imagination, not an inherent flaw of a perk based system. A lot of post hating the system make it seem like you guys can't see the forest for the trees. I was going to make a post outlining what I would have done in a perk based system, but I don't want the thread to turn into pointless arguing again and I need a shower. If anyone is interested I'd be happy to do it later. [editline]15th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49322771][sp]Also no Ron Perlman of course.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Unrelated to the rest of your post, his performance as the news reporter was pretty great though. I almost broke up when he called the Chinese "Stinky Commie meanies".[/sp]

The perk system is just as good as skills imo, it's just an issue of Bethesda's implementation. New Vegas skills are used better than Fallout 4 uses perks, but Fallout 4's perks are a bit better than skills were in Fallout 3. edit: The ultimate issue with Fallout 4 is that Bethesda isn't perfect, and it shows. I wish they'd make a game working alongside Josh Sawyer et al, so they could all work to their strengths.

[QUOTE=_charon;49322925]The perk system is just as good as skills imo, it's just an issue of Bethesda's implementation. New Vegas skills are used better than Fallout 4 uses perks, but Fallout 4's perks are a bit better than skills were in Fallout 3. edit: The ultimate issue with Fallout 4 is that Bethesda isn't perfect, and it shows. I wish they'd make a game working alongside Josh Sawyer et al, so they could all work to their strengths.[/QUOTE] Big gun was a good skill idea actually. I feel like it could have been made better and more useful.

[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;49322793]And it makes it even better when you have a level cap.[/QUOTE] Now it is everything character.

[QUOTE=ripsipiirakk;49322692]Christ i still don't know what faction should i stick with, whole thing just keeps getting more and more complex. [sp]I mean the damn Institute network is already so full of malware planted by me its a wonder those damn wise-asses don't notice. BoS seems like a bunch of assholes now with guns blazing style method of dealing things, and while i am not too deep into institute feels like they are hiding something behind the smiles. Like that fucking Vat of FEV they liked so much to dip people into.[/sp][/QUOTE] I'm in the same position. I am trying to play all sides off against eachother before I make a descision but it is difficult. What did you do for the [sp]Battle of Bunker Hill[/sp] mission?

[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;49322943]Big gun was a good skill idea actually. I feel like it could have been made better and more useful.[/QUOTE] 1. That's not really what I was talking about 2. The issue with Big Guns is that it's useless early game, unless you make Big Guns really weak so they're not gamebreaking early on; in which case, what is even the point of using them? That seems to have happened to FO4's minigun, it should be a murder machine, but it's garbage since you get one early on. edit: also, while I like the perk system, I hope it doesn't carry over to TES. A deeper skill system fits TES super well in my opinion.

[QUOTE=_charon;49322987]1. That's not really what I was talking about 2. The issue with Big Guns is that it's useless early game, unless you make Big Guns really weak so they're not gamebreaking early on; in which case, what is even the point of using them? That seems to have happened to FO4's minigun, it should be a murder machine, but it's garbage since you get one early on. edit: also, while I like the perk system, I hope it doesn't carry over to TES. A deeper skill system fits TES super well in my opinion.[/QUOTE] Ya but you only get enough ammo for that thing to take out the deathclaw you have to fight

I feel like the pacify perk should have some limitations on it. It should only work reliably when you are wearing power armor or are carrying a big gun, or otherwise if you sneak up on a person with a gun to close to their head. And with the abominations I was hoping that maybe you needed a flamer or something to properly pacify them. If ghouls barely understand getting hurt or eachother, why the hell would they stop attacking if someone pointed a normal gun at them? I feel like there definitely needed to be more intricacy to this system, because, as is, it is pretty OP. "Avast Ye Deathclaw! Stand still or face the wrath of my 10mm pistol and naked body"

[QUOTE=_charon;49322925]The perk system is just as good as skills imo, it's just an issue of Bethesda's implementation. New Vegas skills are used better than Fallout 4 uses perks, but Fallout 4's perks are a bit better than skills were in Fallout 3. edit: The ultimate issue with Fallout 4 is that Bethesda isn't perfect, and it shows. I wish they'd make a game working alongside Josh Sawyer et al, so they could all work to their strengths.[/QUOTE] I completely disagree. When you have both big, core abilities that are absolutely essential for a large amount of the things you do, along with smaller, more focused bonuses, you need to put a split between them.