Fallout V23: "I got another thread that needs your help." - Games

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49325733]The Legion is effective as bad guys because they might look like the cliched villains that go around kicking children in the junk and murdering families just for fun but you get to know them and see that their misguided ways are more close to reality than bad guys in gaming usually are and that hurts a little deeper than evil guys in games usually do[/QUOTE] Oh I understand that, like, while the Legion does do some evil shit, they do have a code of "ethics" to put that lightly. Every evil character I've played would be the first on the fucking cross if they helped the Legion take the Mojave, like I can't really think of a character that would want to join the Legion, good or bad, which is why I've never actually gone with them. I think if I ever did create a character he'd be partially insane or a rehabilitated tribal who caught wind of the Legion and wanted to join them, otherwise I can't really come up with any logical reason to join the Legion.

[QUOTE=jonu67;49325760] like I can't really think of a character that would want to join the Legion, good or bad, which is why I've never actually gone with them.[/QUOTE] There's that too, which is a flaw from New Vegas that i'm not afraid of discussing because i like the game, and it falls on the "the legion content got gimped to hell" aspect Your player character has no reason to help the legion. Like, at all. The way they are presented in the game, they make great antagonists, sure, but your player has no reason to wake up in goodsprings after being shot by benny and think "man i really liked that charming fella with the wolf head, i'm going to be a roman!". Which is also part of why i don't blame anyone for never siding with the legion even after playing NV for bazillion hours. Thankfully the rest of the game still have enough content that even if you ignore one of the major factions you still have a lot of shit to do. That being said, the few missions that the legion have are [I]really fun[/I]. Honestly. Blowing up the monorail, spying the NCR, booby trapping their camps, assassinating Kimball, and the final mission which is incredible. If the legion were fleshed out enough they would be a solid choice just for how different and amazing playing for them feels like. This is why i must again tell people to at least play their path once. I know it's hard, trust me. It was hard for me too. But it's a different size of the game that you'll be surprised when you play it. You will have fun and still hate the legion after it so don't worry.

-Edit Nevermind found it

[QUOTE=_charon;49322925]The perk system is just as good as skills imo, it's just an issue of Bethesda's implementation. New Vegas skills are used better than Fallout 4 uses perks, but Fallout 4's perks are a bit better than skills were in Fallout 3. edit: The ultimate issue with Fallout 4 is that Bethesda isn't perfect, and it shows. I wish they'd make a game working alongside Josh Sawyer et al, so they could all work to their strengths.[/QUOTE] Just expanding on what you said: Fallout 3's skill system was shit. New Vegas as well, but a fair bit less since they made the skills matter a lot more. It's basically Oblivion's skill system and is objectively inferior to the 1-300% diminishing returns system in Fallout 1/2. Honestly being perk-based or being skill based doesn't matter in the end, as New Vegas showed it comes down to what skills influence, rather than the particular implementation. If they made the "skills" matter more quest-wise (Science! Robotics Expert, Master Trader, for instance) then it would have been excellent. The issue as I see it is not that skills are gone, but more than the replacement perks for them don't do a whole lot in terms of offering unique quest solutions or dialogue options, it's all for combat or crafting. Generic responses in dialogue should have been replaced by unique skill-related dialogue if you had perks relevant to the conversation. Take for instance, in the Institute in the [sp]mass fusion quest[/sp] when you're talking to Allie, when she starts talking about the beryllium agitator you basically get 4 varitions of "DDDDUUUURRRRR" in terms of dialogue responses, [I][URL="http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Nuclear_Physicist"]even if you understand Nuclear Physics[/URL][/I]. That was a wasted opportunity, and it's just a single example out of a large number of such wasted opportunities to have skill perks influence dialogue options, or quest outcomes. The perk system is fundamentally fine, they just didn't make very much of it any use outside of combat/crafting.

[QUOTE=skylortrexle;49325474][url]https://taleoftwowastelands.com/[/url] It's not that far-fetched.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't even mind the downgrade in textures and polys to be honest.

Console commands to scale up the size of objects?

setscale

:ninja:

Only playthrough I've done that sided with the Legion ended up with me back stabbing them and going with Yes Man right at the end. The reactions are amazing.

[QUOTE=skylortrexle;49325474][url]https://taleoftwowastelands.com/[/url] It's not that far-fetched.[/QUOTE] I'd say it's unlikely we'd see a "Tale of Three Wastelands" for FO4. There wasn't as big as jump between FO3 and NV as there is to FO3 and FO4, engine/asset wise.

[QUOTE=Jetamo;49326256]I'd say it's unlikely we'd see a "Tale of Three Wastelands" for FO4. There wasn't as big as jump between FO3 and NV as there is to FO3 and FO4, engine/asset wise.[/QUOTE] be fine, they just have to integrate one of the billion hi-res texture mods for them into ttw or make a new rubble and brickwork textures atleast, that was basically 99% of 3 and about 3 seconds in substance

This has probably been posted before, but I might as well post it again as a reminder. Hate having a voiced protagonist? These three mods make it so A) Your character is silent and it skips whatever long pause you'd have to wait for a response to play B) The camera always focuses on NPCs so you can still use the Dialogue Camera without seeing any weird mouth movements C) You can see what you're going to say ahead of time so it doesn't matter that you can't hear the dialogue/see the subtitles for your responses. [url=http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2247/?][B]Silence Is Golden - Silent Protagonists[/B][/url] [url=http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/5660/?][B]SCDC - Subjective Cinematic Dialogue Camera[/B][/url] [url=http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1235/?][B]Full Dialogue Interface[/B][/url] Game feels much more like F3/NV like this, and I don't have to hear the (IMO) cringeworthy male voice.

I think those mods will be critical for quest mods and any dialogue overhauls down the line. As it would be way too weird having voiced vanilla dialogue and then silent/different VA modded dialogue.

I'm assuming if you just have the dynamic camera off and you don't have a sound allocated to your response then it'll just skip over it like normal.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/lM2yGmx.jpg[/img]

[URL="http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/6044/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout4%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D6044%26preview%3D&pUp=1"]Port of the Celtic Katana mod for Skyrim.[/URL] The Celtic theme is a little more out of place in FO4, but the rough look it has fits nicely. The lack of an incredibly rare katana in vanilla is unfortunate. also I think this is the first decent weapon mod with a new model

I don't care how dumb it would be, I really hope that there will be an enclave moonbase DLC. I just want the enclave to show up.

Is there a mod that allows me to put all hats on Codsworth?

Does anyone elses game stop working when you install the full dialouge interface mod? [editline]15th December 2015[/editline] It's for that mod and that mod only.

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49325733]The Legion is effective as bad guys because they might look like the cliched villains that go around kicking children in the junk and murdering families just for fun but you get to know them and see that their misguided ways are more close to reality than bad guys in gaming usually are and that hurts a little deeper than evil guys in games usually do They are so repulsive that even people playing as the epitome of evil and being as devilish as they can causing harm to anyone around still shudders at the thought of allying with them. That's quite a feat.[/QUOTE] I've also always been in the camp that the Legion deserve a bit more credit as villains than they get. It confuses the hell out of me when people describe them as "cartoonishly evil", like, motherfucker what kinds of cartoons are you watching? JE Sawyer put it pretty good: [QUOTE]Between the NCR, House, and an independent Vegas, I felt that the player had three “soft” grey choices. The NCR is a soupy mess because that’s how republics tend to be. There’s a lot of corruption, bureaucracy, political pandering, and petty abuses at high levels of authority, but those are things the Courier can steer like a big, awkward ship. You can influence how the NCR deals with various groups and get mostly the results you expect, but there are side effects because the NCR is still a soupy mess at the end of it. With House, there’s not much negotiation. He knows exactly what he wants with very little margin for course-correction. You can go behind Colonel Moore’s back to ally NCR with the Brotherhood of Steel. There’s no going behind House’s back and staying on his good side. House is strong and stable within his small sphere of influence but dictatorial within that sphere. He leverages economic power and access to resources (water and electricity) to maintain control, as far as that goes. The independent ending is “free” with all of the consequences that come with a weak/non-existent government. Each sub-faction within New Vegas is free to conduct themselves as they wish, often coming into conflict with other sub-factions. As there’s no higher governing or law enforcement body (exception: Securitrons), it’s pretty hard for things to run smoothly. Caesar created the Legion through brutal means and he is only able to maintain the Legion through similar, in some cases even more severe, means. All of the tribes he conquered and incorporated into the Legion learned that this was “the way”. Caesar couldn’t allow members of the Legion to maintain their own languages and customs because it undermined solidarity. He couldn’t allow traditional families because it tied soldiers to people and places – people other than Caesar and fellow legionaries. He couldn’t allow rank and file recruits access to advanced weaponry or technology because it undermined fear of superiors and reliance on Caesar. Of course, all of this only “functions” and continues to grow if the Legion continues to conquer and/or increases its slave population. But Caesar’s long-term dream is of the Legion watching over a civilian empire, which is why he’s so dead-set on New Vegas. So, the Legion is the way it is because Caesar is a warlord who maintains control through his cult of personality and the fear of his disapproval (with severe consequences). The historical Caesar was known for being unusually merciful, but he was playing to societies that were much more accepting of mercy. Caesar taught the Legion mercilessness, so that is what they expect, what they consider strong. [B]There’s nothing really morally grey about Liberia’s Charles Taylor, but he’s a real guy who did astoundingly terrible things for the sake of maintaining power. In the context of F:NV, I don’t think Caesar and the Legion need to be thought of as “grey” like the player’s other options. I think they can be what they are, as they are, because the lie of their fiction is intended to provoke thoughts about truth, i.e. the nature of humans who rise to power in such circumstances. When we say “war never changes”, we’re talking about things like this.[/B][/QUOTE]

The Legion definitely comes off as cartoonishly evil, but they weren't intended to be so. It's too bad they didn't have enough time to develop them further, they really are interesting.

[QUOTE=Jetamo;49326256]I'd say it's unlikely we'd see a "Tale of Three Wastelands" for FO4. There wasn't as big as jump between FO3 and NV as there is to FO3 and FO4, engine/asset wise.[/QUOTE] Yeah you'd have a better job of putting Skyrim in The Commonwealth.

[QUOTE=_charon;49326634]The Legion definitely comes off as cartoonishly evil, but they weren't intended to be so. It's too bad they didn't have enough time to develop them further, they really are interesting.[/QUOTE] I don't think they're cartoonishly evil. You get people in real life that follow many of the same principles the Legion do with Islamic extremists, for example.

So I am doing the U.S.S Constitution quest with Codsworth. He likes it when you [sp]Stay loyal to Ironsides. But hates you for trying to get back their guidance chip.[/sp]

for what it's worth, here's my take on the Legion: [QUOTE=Hamaflavian;47877542]I'm less kind in my interpretation of the Legion, but I agree that they deserve a bit more credit than they get. On some level, they're basically like a lot of bad guys in video games--they're a bunch of despicable fascist bullies who believe that the weak should submit to the strong and there really is no rehabilitating or negotiating with them. But I think the way Obsidian handles them gives them a bit of sociological oomph that these kinds of villains don't usually have. Besides Vulpes, the Legion aren't a bunch of sneering sadists, they're civil and disciplined and highly conscientious, and even when they rape and slaughter entire towns of people, it feels consistent with their own lopsided value system. When you talk to them, and you hear about and see how people are raised in the Legion, it really impresses that everyone growing up in this society constructs everything in their life, from family, to sexuality, to interpersonal relationships, as a strict and brutal hierarchy. They also feel like a commentary on the whole idea of civilization itself. For the player on the receiving end of it, they look like a bunch of savages, but when we look back at history, at all the civilizations we generally consider 'great', like Rome, Achaemenid Persia, Imperial China, etc. we're enamored by how orderly and powerful they were, and we unconsciously leave out of our evaluation of them all the astonishing amounts of murder these civilizations had to commit to get to where they got. The Legion basically acts like those great civilizations, and wears the trappings of Rome to drive the point home, but stripped of the bias that would lead us to otherwise excuse all their atrocities with "But it'll all be worth it in the end." I also think that Caesar is just a good villain. Essentially, his 'sin' isn't being a bloodthirsty warlord, his 'sin' is being a reasonably intelligent, reasonably educated guy who thinks he's right about everything and hates the world for not listening to whatever he says, and builds an echo chamber around himself that allows every crackpot idea he comes up with to be accepted completely uncritically. For all the power he wields, he's essential gotten himself lost in the underworld, where he's become incapable of intellectual or emotional growth. It's familiar and it's very human.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;49326698]So I am doing the U.S.S Constitution quest with Codsworth. He likes it when you [sp]Stay loyal to Ironsides. But hates you for trying to get back their guidance chip.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]stay loyal to ironsides in general. you get a hella neat gun from it, and the alternate ending is terrible.[/sp]

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;49326698]So I am doing the U.S.S Constitution quest with Codsworth. He likes it when you [sp]Stay loyal to Ironsides. But hates you for trying to get back their guidance chip.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Because to get the guidance chip back, you have to steal it. Worth it, imo, the gun is sweet[/sp]

[QUOTE=Pops;49326719][sp]stay loyal to ironsides in general. you get a hella neat gun from it, and the alternate ending is terrible.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Already planned to. I just found it kinda funny how when talking to the scavengers, he likes when you say you will stay loyal to ironsides, but hates the action of stealing the guidance chip back for ironsides. Because for some reason the chip is flagged as owned.[/sp]

[QUOTE=skylortrexle;49325474][URL]https://taleoftwowastelands.com/[/URL] It's not that far-fetched.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Combine 177;49325480]It is almost the same engine so porting probably wouldn't take long. Taking in account they still have all assets of FO3 and NV somewhere.[/QUOTE] I don't think you realize how much work that actually is. ALL the scripts need to be rewritten. ALL the assets need to be remade and ported over. The entire world needs to be rebuilt. It's basically like re-developing F3 and FNV. That's a [U][I]huge [/I][/U]amount of work, and would require a big dev team working around the clock as if it was their day job. TTW took what, ~4 years or so? And that's working with two games that were very similar on a technical level.

[QUOTE=DeEz;49326785]I don't think you realize how much work that actually is. ALL the scripts need to be rewritten. ALL the assets need to be remade and ported over. The entire world needs to be rebuilt. It's basically like re-developing F3 and FNV. That's a [U][I]huge [/I][/U]amount of work, and would require a big dev team working around the clock as if it was their day job. TTW took what, ~4 years or so? And that's working with two games that were very similar on a technical level.[/QUOTE] It doesn't hurt to dream.