Fallout V23: "I got another thread that needs your help." - Games

[QUOTE=Kebab;49328584]if you want to spruce up your homes without worrying about items spazzing out use this: [URL]http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4270/?[/URL][/QUOTE] And that mod brought me to [URL="http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2655/?"]this[/URL] one. I had just installed Crafting Benches, and Gloves of Commonwealth which is redundant, but now that mod makes all of them redundant, and more. Ugh.....

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;49326698]So I am doing the U.S.S Constitution quest with Codsworth. He likes it when you [sp]Stay loyal to Ironsides. But hates you for trying to get back their guidance chip.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]If you attack the scavengers unprovoked he doesn't care and gladly joins in, but stealing their chip is too far.[/sp]

I gotta say, FO4 is getting mods so quickly unlike ever before with Bethesda games, can hardly keep up with updates etc. Actual tools ain't even out yet, Jesus Christ.

[QUOTE=ElectricSquid;49328775]FO4's raiders were definitely a step up from those of previous games[/QUOTE] They're not exactly because they're still only shooting material The conversations are a nice touch but when they still boil to "see you - shoot" every single time its a huge letdown Since the days of fallout 1 you could at least talk to some of the raiders, for god's sake. Just like removing traits every single chance they have this is one of Bethesda's decision that i will never understand and support. Stop making entire groups of nuanced people/"people" (like supermutants) just bullet fodder It makes sense that most raiders are hostile but it doesn't make sense that ALL OF THEM are regardless of the reasons, even when its something that will benefit them. Example: In New Vegas the raiders from vault 3 would shoot you if you just waltzed in there but if you were on behalf of the khans for the drug deal they would leave you alone. Because its good for them and it shows that despite being raiders, junkies and whatnots they are still human beings with some capacity of rational thinking. In Fallout 4 they would still shoot you on sight for REASONS after having a long conversation about how they were expecting the guy delivering the drugs to arrive because they needed their fix. It makes no goddamn sense.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;49328841]I gotta say, FO4 is getting mods so quickly unlike ever before with Bethesda games, can hardly keep up with updates etc. Actual tools ain't even out yet, Jesus Christ.[/QUOTE] God damn it i'm so hyped for the actual tools ! I have my hopes for fallout : lone star

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;49328827]And that mod brought me to [URL="http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2655/?"]this[/URL] one. I had just installed Crafting Benches, and Gloves of Commonwealth which is redundant, but now that mod makes all of them redundant, and more. Ugh.....[/QUOTE] Wow..... That mod does everything that most of the mods I installed do. Guess I'll be switching. Although I don't think 100 caps is fair for a power armor frame. I'll just not craft those.

[QUOTE=ElectricSquid;49328775]FO4's raiders were definitely a step up from those of previous games, but I wish we'd been able to interact with them in a greater capacity than just shoot 'n loot. Easy City Downs and the Combat Zone come to mind as prime examples, but the various unnamed raider gangs and the Forged could've also benefited from having more characterization and more opportunities for interaction. Maybe Red could've given you a quest to go find out what happened to her sister, or the Forged could've offered you a place in their ranks, or something like that. They wouldn't have to dispense with their violent tendencies entirely, just give you a chance to talk before shooting.[/QUOTE] I feel like Raiders in Fallout 4 were heavily inspired by The Last Of Us where you're always considered a foreign agent to these small autonomous groups of bandits, and they can't exactly trust some random cunt who showed up weapon in hand. Not to mention the pipboy on your arm making you a good mark, along with the fact you're potentially going to run around alone, or wearing just a vault suit. It's still relatively limited and it's a shame we don't get a bit more interaction like Wolfgang and the toll raiders that ask for money every so often, but it's not that shocking that some armed junkies looking for lone victims to loot wouldn't be very willing to talk to you.

[QUOTE=ElectricSquid;49328775]FO4's raiders were definitely a step up from those of previous games, but I wish we'd been able to interact with them in a greater capacity than just shoot 'n loot. Easy City Downs and the Combat Zone come to mind as prime examples, but the various unnamed raider gangs and the Forged could've also benefited from having more characterization and more opportunities for interaction. Maybe Red could've given you a quest to go find out what happened to her sister, or the Forged could've offered you a place in their ranks, or something like that. They wouldn't have to dispense with their violent tendencies entirely, just give you a chance to talk before shooting.[/QUOTE] Having some/unique raider groups being a sideable faction would've been neat, and also being able to build raider settlements and go on hunter-killer missions with a few of them to knock a caravan or two would have been awesome. Also Gunners giving contracts would have been sweet too. Rise through the ranks and they give you a homing radar so they could show up with some robots to help you in a fight.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;49328827]And that mod brought me to [URL="http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2655/?"]this[/URL] one. I had just installed Crafting Benches, and Gloves of Commonwealth which is redundant, but now that mod makes all of them redundant, and more. Ugh.....[/QUOTE] from the screenshots it also looks like it makes most of the vanilla crafting redundant someone wouldn't know balance if you hit them with a pair of scales

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49328924]I feel like Raiders in Fallout 4 were heavily inspired by The Last Of Us where you're always considered a foreign agent to these small autonomous groups of bandits, and they can't exactly trust some random cunt who showed up weapon in hand. Not to mention the pipboy on your arm making you a good mark, along with the fact you're potentially going to run around alone, or wearing just a vault suit. It's still relatively limited and it's a shame we don't get a bit more interaction like Wolfgang and the toll raiders that ask for money every so often, but it's not that shocking that some armed junkies looking for lone victims to loot wouldn't be very willing to talk to you.[/QUOTE] every fallout player character since 1 had pipboys and vault suits and were potential targets for raider tribes and we could still interact with some of them because it would be benefitial for both this excuse won't stick

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49328941]every fallout player character since 1 had pipboys and vault suits and were potential targets for raider tribes and we could still interact with some of them because it would be benefitial for both this excuse won't stick[/QUOTE] I wonder,why in fallout 1 and 2 we have pipboy 2000 but no 3000 ? I mean,vault 101 can't have been shipped pip boy 3000 .. does it means that the social experiment in vault 13 was.. to make it so every vault issued equipment are older than the other vault so when they leave their vault they are completely lost in the new tech ? ...

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49328941]every fallout player character since 1 had pipboys and vault suits and were potential targets for raider tribes and we could still interact with some of them because it would be benefitial for both this excuse won't stick[/QUOTE] You get a situation where you can help a raider, it's Wolfgang at the Drumlin Diner. You can also help gunners at one of the airplane wreckage sites for a single contract. Also fair to mention that raiders on the east coast are less organized and less tribal than on the west coast, they're very small and gated groups of bandits that make a living out of killing and looting with rare exceptions (the gunners are more organized, Wolfgang sells drugs) rather than violent people who actually have a community that spans over several settlements. The only group of raiders you meet on the east coast that's actually organized and not centered around killing and looting loners/small groups is Ashur's raiders, and you can join them. [editline]16th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=ApertureXS200;49328948]I wonder,why in fallout 1 and 2 we have pipboy 2000 but no 3000 ? I mean,vault 101 can't have been shipped pip boy 3000 .. does it means that the social experiment in vault 13 was.. to make it so every vault issued equipment are older than the other vault so when they leave their vault they are completely lost in the new tech ? ...[/QUOTE] RobCo probably just dumped all their unwanted stock into the vaults with few exceptions (like how vault 111 only has one specifically designed admin pipboy). Conversation in vault 101 at your birthday makes it clear that different residents were issued different models, although this isn't reflected visually since everyone wears a 3000A.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49328977]You get a situation where you can help a raider, it's Wolfgang at the Drumlin Diner. You can also help gunners at one of the airplane wreckage sites for a single contract. Also fair to mention that raiders on the east coast are less organized and less tribal than on the west coast, they're very small and gated groups of bandits that make a living out of killing and looting with rare exceptions (the gunners are more organized, Wolfgang sells drugs) rather than violent people who actually have a community that spans over several settlements.[/QUOTE] That's a lot of mental gymnastics to justify Bethesda using all the raiders as generic enemies There were plenty of "small, gated groups of bandits" that would leave the vault dweller and the chosen one alone if they had no reason to throw themselves into a pointless death or if they offered to help The raiders in Vault 3 are as violent and drugged up as any of the east coast raiders but they still would let you go through as a khan rep bringing them drugs (as in "they buy the drugs - not selling", before you try to use the lone example of Wolfgang again) That's the point, no matter how violent and drugged up they are, they can still figure it out when not being 100% hostile will bring them some benefits (even when said benefit is just "don't die") and they are capable of doing so (most don't and that's fine - not every raider out there is smart enough to figure this out. but not ALL of them are retarded enough to never consider). Even if they don't, just having the chance of them not being shooting fodder is already better than generic enemies all the time . Unless they're on the East Coast were rational thinking went to die it seems.

[QUOTE=McTbone;49328927]Having some/unique raider groups being a sideable faction would've been neat, and also being able to build raider settlements and go on hunter-killer missions with a few of them to knock a caravan or two would have been awesome. Also Gunners giving contracts would have been sweet too. Rise through the ranks and they give you a homing radar so they could show up with some robots to help you in a fight.[/QUOTE] The wasted potential here is fucking me up. Imagine if they went with the more blank slate cryo vault instead of "shaun my beautiful baby boy" so you weren't locked into being a good guy, then instead of helping the minute-men fortify settlements and drive off raiders you could unite the raider gangs through sheer charisma and brutality, becoming a warlord of the commonwealth. From a gameplay perspective not much would change- it would still be building raider camps and forts and running radiant raids on caravans- but it would *feel* like your actions were making a difference to the plot. Plus "ey boss i got another caravan that looks like it would make a good mark" makes more sense than you constantly having to personally defend every settlement from raiders on the other end of the map.

Do I have a minority opinion in being totally alright with raiders just being random violent yahoos that strap car parts to themselves, so that we have a numerous yet plausible enemy to shoot at? It's not like they needed much humanizing anyway. If they wanted that, they shouldn't have decorated all their hideouts with human remains. And the vault 3 fiends were the only not-completely-hostile raiders in New Vegas. All the other raiders shot on sight, even the vipers, who actually have quite an extensive backstory which I only ever heard about when I read the wiki page. I suppose maybe the Great Khans count as well, but they don't do any raiding in New Vegas, they're just kinda there. And in my opinion, Ashur and his gang of merry men were much more interesting than Motor-Runner, who was pretty much just some dude who likes drugs.

[QUOTE=fulgrim;49329109]The wasted potential here is fucking me up. Imagine if they went with the more blank slate cryo vault instead of "shaun my beautiful baby boy" so you weren't locked into being a good guy, then instead of helping the minute-men fortify settlements and drive off raiders you could unite the raider gangs through sheer charisma and brutality, becoming a warlord of the commonwealth. From a gameplay perspective not much would change- it would still be building raider camps and forts and running radiant raids on caravans- but it would *feel* like your actions were making a difference to the plot. Plus "ey boss i got another caravan that looks like it would make a good mark" makes more sense than you constantly having to personally defend every settlement from raiders on the other end of the map.[/QUOTE] "The cryo altered the man mind,and he suddenly passed from good guy to bad guy searching for his sons" "He was forever changed by the wasteland" it pretty much makes sense for a evil character

The game doesn't need friendly raiders, there's a perfectly good reason for them to want you dead and there's already like four factions you can ally yourself to.

[QUOTE=Everything;49327265]I'm not getting any content mods for Fallout 4 until the CK is released. I just keep hearing way too much about stuff ruining saves or breaking story scripts to trust it as of right now. Graphical modification, texture/model/sound replacements, sure, fine, but anything that adds something entirely new to the game is potentially risky.[/QUOTE] I have about 40 mods installed and have had no issues

[QUOTE=fulgrim;49329109]The wasted potential here is fucking me up. Imagine if they went with the more blank slate cryo vault instead of "shaun my beautiful baby boy" [/QUOTE] It would be so good to justify all kinds of playthroughs And then if you really were bothered by the lack of backstory you could go to the memory den and somehow make a quest to discover your past, and then it could chang according to your actions in-game (if you were bad you would be some scumbag that bribed your way into the vault or some bandit that sneaked in, if you were a boring default white guy goodie two shoes you would have a beautiful lawyer wife called nora and a wee baby shaun, etcetera) The game had so many interesting hooks to explore and Bethesda used none At least there's hope for the DLCs still but i'm not holding my breath, i can feel in my bones that they're going to do more stupid stuff like MZ instead of exploring the few good gems in their writing [editline]16th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Samiam22;49329146]And the vault 3 fiends were the only not-completely-hostile raiders in New Vegas[/QUOTE] The powder gangers are some sort of raiders. And so are the Khans I'm not saying Vault 3 is more interesting or better than Ashur, where did you take that from? The point is that they were handled as non-hostile because they had a larger interest, just like Ashur, instead of shooting you on sight just because. Yes, i do have a problem with ALL raiders being violent yahoos because in the end raiders are bandits and reducing every bandit in the world to dumb fuckers going around using drugs and shooting player characters is a lazy way to handle your enemies. It also limits your roleplaying capacities but that point was touched so many times during this thread already that i don't want to pull this conversation again

The inevitable alternate start mods are all we're going to need for odd character runs.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49329155]The game doesn't need friendly raiders, there's a perfectly good reason for them to want you dead and there's already like four factions you can ally yourself to.[/QUOTE] No there is not. Fallout 1 once again.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49329173]The inevitable alternate start mods are all we're going to need for odd character runs.[/QUOTE] Stop using the "mods will fix it" excuse.

the only reason why the little interactions with raiders is a problem is [I]because[/I] they've done such a good job humanizing them in some instances. in some scenarios, the work they've put in is so much you wonder why there's not more interactivity than shoot-them-in-the-face. the fact different raider groups will comment on others being destroyed is insane when you consider that literally the only reason they're there is to [I]be[/I] destroyed. they should have named more raider groups like they did with the forged and at least have some non-hostile ones, or have instances where you can cause them to be non-hostile, or have them only become hostile with certain quests, etc. they shouldn't have made their lines so compelling if they were going to have them barely a step above FO3's raiders, and several step back from New Vegas's.

[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;49329177]No there is not. Fallout 1 once again.[/QUOTE] Fallout 1 had a single group of raiders you could ally yourself to and it did literally nothing. You'd lose 2 reputation points, it'd lock you out of two quests, and have absolutely zero impact on the remainder of the game.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49329155]The game doesn't need friendly raiders, there's a perfectly good reason for them to want you dead and there's already like four factions you can ally yourself to.[/QUOTE] i don't think it's so much about having friendly raiders as it is having raider groups that are fleshed out, diverse and cohesive. when you start putting deeper thought into raiders other than 'they're an ambiguously large group of people that are interested in killing and looting i guess' you naturally get a few raider groups that won't be overtly hostile if you don't put deeper thought into it you get hilariously inappropriate situations like the combat zone, race track and the entirety of the gunners.

[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;49329206]i don't think it's so much about having friendly raiders as it is having raider groups that are fleshed out, diverse and cohesive. when you start putting deeper thought into raiders other than 'they're an ambiguously large group of people that are interested in killing and looting i guess' you naturally get a few raider groups that won't be overtly hostile if you don't put deeper thought into it you get hilariously inappropriate situations like the combat zone, race track and the entirety of the gunners.[/QUOTE] Not only that but just because they're not hostile on sight and some might talk to you that doesnt necessarily mean they're "friendly" Raiders are not feral ghouls, they're capable of thinking. So don't reduce their behavior to the same as feral ghouls.

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49329157]The powder gangers are some sort of raiders. And so are the Khans I'm not saying Vault 3 is more interesting or better than Ashur, where did you take that from? The point is that they were handled as non-hostile because they had a larger interest, just like Ashur, instead of shooting you on sight just because. Yes, i do have a problem with ALL raiders being violent yahoos because in the end raiders are bandits and reducing every bandit in the world to dumb fuckers going around using drugs and shooting player characters is a lazy way to handle your enemies. It also limits your roleplaying capacities but that point was touched so many times during this thread already that i don't want to pull this conversation again[/QUOTE] The powder gangers were basically a bunch of convicts playing tough, as was explained by the NCR victory slide if you didn't kill Eddie yourself. The Great Khans aren't raiding at the time of FO:NV because they'd almost been wiped out and have a much safer time running chems. I don't know why you're getting defensive about Vault 3. That was just me stating my opinion on friendly raiders. I liked Ashur. He made sense, The Pitt as a whole was an awesome DLC of quality that I didn't really expect from Bethesda. Raiders work just fine as some hard-coded hostile faction that just serves as enemies that can be fought regardless of who you're aligned with or how you play the game. They pretty much voluntarily gave up their civility, look at how they're dressed, how they bark taunts at you and kidnap or kill random settlers. There are better ways to have an evil playthrough without resorting to the chaotic evil alignment of raiders. The slavers of Paradise Falls or Ceasar's Legion are more pragmatic for an evil player to side with than random raiders. The only way I see "friendly" raiders working is if they try to shake you down instead of shooting you.

The biggest missed opportunity is that there is an actual raider radio in the game but its just a dumb distress signal instead of random guitar shredding and psycho induced yelling if magnolia can make new jazz then the raiders should be making new music too

East Coast Raiders are one of the most inconsequential aspects of the series and are here so that there's more things to shoot at than wild dogs and ghouls. They actually spent the time to explain why they act like this and to develop them a bit further than just being angry chem-heads with guns which is nice, but that doesn't mean Bethesda really needs to do any more than this, because ultimately Raiders are just bandits, and bandits are the braindead cannon fodder of a metric ton of RPGs out there. [editline]16th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Nemisis116;49329231]The biggest missed opportunity is that there is an actual raider radio in the game but its just a dumb distress signal instead of random guitar shredding and psycho induced yelling if magnolia can make new jazz then the raiders should be making new music too[/QUOTE] Because there was a guitarist in Mad Max doesn't mean there needs to be one in Fallout. Raiders in the Commonwealth are human garbage, they know nothing other than shooting and looting dead bodies.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49329193]Fallout 1 had a single group of raiders you could ally yourself to and it did literally nothing. You'd lose 2 reputation points, it'd lock you out of two quests, and have absolutely zero impact on the remainder of the game.[/QUOTE] You could beat the khans in hand to hand combat atleast. Cooperate with the master,the thieves guild and the ones that one man which was the owner of the big bar in The hub. you could side with the rangers in the graveyard [editline]16th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49329181]Stop using the "mods will fix it" excuse.[/QUOTE] Yeah,you're right. It's not an excuse,it's just an answers. What the problem ? We can't answers anything else than "Mods". Bethesda was not able to make what the modders successfully makes alone.