Fallout V23: "I got another thread that needs your help." - Games

[QUOTE=ClarkWasHere;49248244]No, you combine the superdrug in [I]you.[/I] You just have to take all the varieties at the same time. Don't worry you'll be fiiiine.[/QUOTE] I kinda wish you experienced various positive and adverse effects from taking too many different varieties of chems at once. Like, your fists are coated in hallucinogenic fire and you can't see shit, your health is slowly draining and you need to constantly eat and drink to stay alive, but if you punch a mirelurk queen it will just implode. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyCtfd8w6JQ[/media]

[QUOTE=Everything;49248371]I've only used drugs in a fallout game twice, ever. Took mentats in FO2 to pass an intelligence requirement, and got addicted to buffout in FO3's The Pitt because I had nothing else to fix my dire health situation.[/QUOTE] I almost never used drugs in 3/NV. 4 though? Jet is soooooo fun.

[QUOTE=Everything;49248406]I'd use chems more if addiction weren't such a huge pain in the ass. From what I understand it's not as aggravating in 4 due to plentiful fixer, but still.[/QUOTE] Chems have like no downside in FO4, fixer just got rid of debuffs, but the FO4 thing removes addictions entirely.

[QUOTE=Teh Zip File;49248417] 4 though? Jet is soooooo fun.[/QUOTE] Which kinda undermines the point because Jet was designed (words of Jet's creator btw) to turn people into pathetic junkies crawling on the floor begging for another dose and doing whatever their dealers wanted That's even how they control Redding and pretty much destroy their effective workforce to begin with and how you can only get a good ending for them if you rid them from their jet addiction. Because Jet makes you shit, not a superhero.

[QUOTE=fulgrim;49248410]I kinda wish you experienced various positive and adverse effects from taking too many different varieties of chems at once. Like, your fists are coated in hallucinogenic fire and you can't see shit, your health is slowly draining and you need to constantly eat and drink to stay alive, but if you punch a mirelurk queen it will just implode. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyCtfd8w6JQ[/media][/QUOTE] Let's be honest though if drugs had this kind of effect in the vanilla game the majority of players would barely ever use them because it'd make every fight a fucking mess to get through. It'd be cool for one or two missions as a specific thing but every drug triggering massive trips would just be obnoxious after a while.

Barely used drugs in combat in the earlier games, because my build involved Grim Reaper's Sprint and that's a game-long I Win button. Fallout 4's higher specialized builds are also pretty gamebreaking, but not as fun imo.

[QUOTE=Delta616;49247898]Glad you're not incharge of what's considered a spoiler.[/QUOTE] and i'm glad i'm not. because my taste in what is a spoiler and what isn't, is not universal. Which is why I spoiler shit anyway because I know someone out there is going to be like "spoilers" and I'll be like "oshitsorry"

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49248430]Which kinda undermines the point because Jet was designed (words of Jet's creator btw) to turn people into pathetic junkies crawling on the floor begging for another dose and doing whatever their dealers wanted That's even how they control Redding and pretty much destroy their effective workforce to begin with and how you can only get a good ending for them if you rid them from their jet addiction. Because Jet makes you shit, not a superhero.[/QUOTE] Well to be fair there's 40 years and hundreds of miles separating Fallout 2 from Fallout 4 so it's fair to assume that the formula was fucked with a little. The original Fallout 2 formula which require brahmin shit produced under specific circumstances was likely too time consuming, too specific and too difficult to attain in most environments. This is further implied by the fact the lone survivor can make his own jet with any common bag of fertilizer. It's also just possible that there is no explanation for jet leaving the player relatively unharmed other than the fact it'd be fucking stupid otherwise and nobody would use it if it literally neutralized your character's physical capacities and made him a full-on junkie. As a side note, ultra jet was first discovered and produced by Murphy, and the most recognizable jet addict in fallout 4 is called Mamma Murphy. Nice touch :v:

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49248444]Let's be honest though if drugs had this kind of effect in the vanilla game the majority of players would barely ever use them because it'd make every fight a fucking mess to get through. It'd be cool for one or two missions as a specific thing but every drug triggering massive trips would just be obnoxious after a while.[/QUOTE] I'd like drug trips to be more of slight tint changes or small color swaps that don't really interfere with gameplay. MGS and snake not being able to see the difference between red and white when he's hurt comes to mind, and I wouldn't mind that kind of drug effect.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49248491] It's also just possible that there is no explanation for jet leaving the player relatively unharmed other than the fact it'd be fucking stupid otherwise and nobody would use it if it literally neutralized your character's physical capacities and made him a full-on junkie.[/QUOTE] Jet was never supposed to be an enhancing drug. The AP benefit is small, the drug was highly addictive and the addiction effects were pretty harsh because that's the whole point of Jet and Myron pretty much explains it Saying "you can't have bad items because bad things are bad and players can't take it" is a fairly stupid point but proves pretty much the mentality of the new players bethesda caters for. You can't have anything bad happening when you have stupid decisions, the whole world must revolves around you. JET. IS. BAD. You have plenty of in-game examples of how Jet ruined people's life before having a chance to use it. The Den and New Reno are a testament of how fucking terrible the drug is and how it destroys people. Jet addicts are broken people, pathetic human beings dragging themselves around begging for another dose. You see this everywhere. You still have the chance to use Jet because Fallout 2 was still a RPG and the player was allowed to have choices, but using Jet would still fuck you because it was a stupid fucking thing to do. You don't need to sugarcoat everything just because it hurts the player. You can point out "hey maybe you shouldnt be using this stuff because this stuff is awful" and leave the choice open. And when the player opted for using it, he would have no one else to blame but himself for being dumb. Too bad we can't have this in games anymore. NV even managed to show this point with Dixon's Jet being goddamn awful, because that's the kind of stuff people would be using and that kind of stuff just wrecks your shit. Your point of Jet having a different composition is acceptable. That can be argued and lead to some nice discussions. But saying "jet can't be a bad item because players don't like bad items" is freaking stupid.

this is what i hate most: so i'm ignoring the main quest as much as possible on this second character, 7 hours later i dip into a metro tunnel and [sp]run headlong into Nick Valentine's intro[/sp]. I'm groaning inside because i know what's going to happen. i find him and he's like "how did you end up here?" and my options are literally [sp] < TRACKING SOMEONE (SHAUN) > LOOKING FOR MY SON (SHAUN) ^ WHAT ARE YOU?? (Killed like 50 synths already) V IT'S COMPLICATED [/sp]. So I pick the last option because it's the only thing that gives me a way out of Bethesda's trap and my character basically says, in so many words, "help me find shaun." concord, lexington, diamond city (couldn't just say i'm here for a haircut? isn't that the whole point of having a dialogue wheel??), and on and fucking on. i hate the prelude so much, it totally soured me on the main quest. i dont want to play your shitty quest for SHAUN, i would never even give a kid that name, i have no fondness whatsoever for the 5 minutes of hugely loaded backstory you gave me. it would take me literal hours to be convinced to care about this white bread family in their cul de sac, now shut the fuck up about it and let me play the real game.

In Fallout 2 jet had an actual plot importance and was prevalent as such. It made sense that it would have such a strong effect because it was an actual plot point. In fallout New Vegas, 3 and 4, Jet is no longer a plot point - as such, the drastic addiction effects were nerfed (although counterbalanced by UMON) and the chem turned into an actual gameplay element to keep it relevant in the game. Psycho is supposed to cause long term psychosis and pretty much fucks your brain up on your first shot but it doesn't do that in game because chems are still a gameplay element regardless and as such aren't as absurdly punishing as they would be if they exactly followed the lore.

[QUOTE=Kommodore;49248537]this is what i hate most: so i'm ignoring the main quest as much as possible on this second character, 7 hours later i dip into a metro tunnel and [sp]run headlong into Nick Valentine's intro[/sp]. I'm groaning inside because i know what's going to happen. i find him and he's like "how did you end up here?" and my options are literally [sp] < TRACKING SOMEONE (SHAUN) > LOOKING FOR MY SON (SHAUN) ^ WHAT ARE YOU?? (Killed like 50 synths already) V IT'S COMPLICATED [/sp]. So I pick the last option because it's the only thing that gives me a way out of Bethesda's trap and my character basically says, in so many words, "help me find shaun." concord, lexington, diamond city (couldn't just say i'm here for a haircut? isn't that the whole point of having a dialogue wheel??), and on and fucking on. i hate the prelude so much, it totally soured me on the main quest. i dont want to play your shitty quest for SHAUN, i would never even give a kid that name, i have no fondness whatsoever for the 5 minutes of hugely loaded backstory you gave me. it would take me literal hours to be convinced to care about this white bread family in their cul de sac, now shut the fuck up about it and let me play the real game.[/QUOTE] but you have to save SHAUN [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t0uCWjQ6Og[/media]

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49248523]Jet was never supposed to be an enhancing drug. The AP benefit is small, the drug was highly addictive and the addiction effects were pretty harsh because that's the whole point of Jet and Myron pretty much explains it Saying "you can't have bad items because bad things are bad and players can't take it" is a fairly stupid point but proves pretty much the mentality of the new players bethesda caters for. You can't have anything bad happening when you have stupid decisions, the whole world must revolves around you. JET. IS. BAD. You have plenty of in-game examples of how Jet ruined people's life before having a chance to use it. The Den and New Reno are a testament of how fucking terrible the drug is and how it destroys people. Jet addicts are broken people, pathetic human beings dragging themselves around begging for another dose. You see this everywhere. You still have the chance to use Jet because Fallout 2 was still a RPG and the player was allowed to have choices, but using Jet would still fuck you because it was a stupid fucking thing to do. You don't need to sugarcoat everything just because it hurts the player. You can point out "hey maybe you shouldnt be using this stuff because this stuff is awful" and leave the choice open. And when the player opted for using it, he would have no one else to blame but himself for being dumb. Too bad we can't have this in games anymore. NV even managed to show this point with Dixon's Jet being goddamn awful, because that's the kind of stuff people would be using and that kind of stuff just wrecks your shit. Your point of Jet having a different composition is acceptable. That can be argued and lead to some nice discussions. But saying "jet can't be a bad item because players don't like bad items" is freaking stupid.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure Bethesda saw Slow-Mo from Dredd and just decided to copy it.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49248586]In fallout New Vegas, 3 and 4, Jet is no longer a plot point [/QUOTE] It is though, at least in NV - it's pretty much what's holding Freeside and Westside/North Vegas from thrive and the followers are trying to fight it. You have a valid point about Psycho but even it was highly addictive as well, and the addictions meant something - and this is absent from F4

[QUOTE=IrishBandit;49248599]I'm pretty sure Bethesda saw Slow-Mo from Dredd and just decided to copy it.[/QUOTE] Dredd's Slow-Mo was obviously inspired by Jet, and in turn Fallout 4's rendition of Jet was inspired by Dredd. It's like tomb raider and uncharted, they keep ripping each other off :v: [editline]5th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49248610]It is though, at least in NV - it's pretty much what's holding Freeside and Westside/North Vegas from thrive and the followers are trying to fight it. You have a valid point about Psycho but even it was highly addictive as well, and the addictions meant something - and this is absent from F4[/QUOTE] They probably also realized that not a lot of people used chems to begin with because the drawbacks were far too strong. I literally avoided chems like the plague in the entirety of my fallout 1 and 2 runs because it just was never, [I]ever[/I] worth it since addiction effects were so unbelievably strong. Sure, it's immersive, but it's not fun and certainly not interesting to have a good part of the item list just sit there and have the player be like "well I can't touch those, don't want to lose 4 agility permanently".

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49248586]In Fallout 2 jet had an actual plot importance and was prevalent as such. It made sense that it would have such a strong effect because it was an actual plot point. In fallout New Vegas, 3 and 4, Jet is no longer a plot point - as such, the drastic addiction effects were nerfed (although counterbalanced by UMON) and the chem turned into an actual gameplay element to keep it relevant in the game. Psycho is supposed to cause long term psychosis and pretty much fucks your brain up on your first shot but it doesn't do that in game because chems are still a gameplay element regardless and as such aren't as absurdly punishing as they would be if they exactly followed the lore.[/QUOTE] i mean the solution is pretty simple don't you think? just don't have it in the game? When you make up a cool new drug effect, the logical thing to do would be to make up a new drug that has that effect, rather than taking an old, completely opposite drug and replacing the effect.

Hey fellas, was just wondering- How do i get a follower into power armor?

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49248612] They probably also realized that not a lot of people used chems to begin with because the drawbacks were far too strong.[/QUOTE] But this is wrong because many other chems were still viable. The point is Jet. There was an entire questline and companion to show you how Jet was awful and how it was conceived to be awful intentionally. Then you skip to the other games - sure, you can introduce some new drugs that are not designed to fuck the player, but why make it Jet? People who played F2 already know Jet is horrible. You could literally create a new drug and no one would even blink, but when you make it Jet you reference to F2 and people who played it are not going to just ignore it. [QUOTE=elowin;49248636]i mean the solution is pretty simple don't you think? just don't have it in the game? When you make up a cool new drug effect, the logical thing to do would be to make up a new drug that has that effect, rather than taking an old, completely opposite drug and replacing the effect.[/QUOTE] THANK YOU. Exactly my point.

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;49248648]Hey fellas, was just wondering- How do i get a follower into power armor?[/QUOTE] In that command thing when you activate em, look at power armor and hit activate again.

Couldn't they have just brought turbo back? i use jet all the time for the slow-motion effect but it always bugs me because i have this nagging feeling that taking straight up unmodified jet should be a stupid thing to do.

[QUOTE=elowin;49248636]i mean the solution is pretty simple don't you think? just don't have it in the game? When you make up a cool new drug effect, the logical thing to do would be to make up a new drug that has that effect, rather than taking an old, completely opposite drug and replacing the effect.[/QUOTE] The time slowing down thing isn't new, it's literally a better version of what Turbo did in New Vegas (a drug that is already a derivative of jet), and if anything a different interpretation of the drug's canon effects - instead of just giving you some additional action points, it literally makes you, the player, able to act faster by slowing down everyone else. Considering the game's overhauled combat system it makes sense that one of the emblematic chems of the game would be changed to work with that new system. [editline]5th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=fulgrim;49248655]Couldn't they have just brought turbo back? i use jet all the time for the slow-motion effect but it always bugs me because i have this nagging feeling that taking straight up unmodified jet should be a stupid thing to do.[/QUOTE] Turbo is literally jet strapped to a larger inhaler though.

[QUOTE=Lauraxe;49248173][video=youtube;dinVfGIfen4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dinVfGIfen4[/video][/QUOTE] I see Sturges is a native of Soleanna.

I've been grabbing every Buffouts I can see during my play through for my melee build play through.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49248657]Considering the game's overhauled combat system it makes sense that one of the emblematic chems of the game would be changed to work with that new system.[/QUOTE] That makes no sense. You don't have to take something emblematic and use however you want just because it's emblematic. You can create new stuff and Fallout 4 wasn't afraid of it. They could have used a new drug if they wanted. Also Turbo isn't "just jet in a large inhaler". Talk with the khans. And even if you think turbo is just jet in a large inhaler (it isn't), this is Jet in Fallout 4 [t]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/4/4d/Fallout4_Jet.png/revision/latest?cb=20151204171812[/t] and this is jet in fallout 2 (which we are discussing) [IMG]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/4/4f/Chem_jet.png/revision/latest?cb=20080511211717[/IMG] and i think i don't need to remind you of what jack says and how turbo looks in NV

I don't know what is up, but when I start a new game I'm unable to modify any aspect of my character's face other than hair and eyes. The green hologram thing doesn't appear on other parts of the face, and the sculpt/type options are grayed out.

One of the devs just watched the first ep of Cowboy Bebop and made jet this: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WaiMPKx_-0[/media]

They wanted to give jet a new effect and it works perfectly fine as it now works. Personally, and I think a lot of people will agree here, the new effects are a lot more enjoyable and a lot more drastic than what it used to be, which makes it a rather welcome change.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49248712]They wanted to give jet a new effect and it works perfectly fine as it now works. Personally, and I think a lot of people will agree here, the new effects are a lot more enjoyable and a lot more drastic than what it used to be, which makes it a rather welcome change.[/QUOTE] But Jet is not supposed to be enjoyable. That was the whole point of Jet. They could have created a new drug (like they made many others) for the same effect. They had no obligation of picking Jet, a bad drug, and turn it into a good drug. Why this is so hard for you to understand i don't know.

[QUOTE=Ruh-roh;49248732]But Jet is not supposed to be enjoyable. That was the whole point of Jet. They could have created a new drug (like they made many others) for the same effect. They had no obligation of picking Jet, a bad drug, and turn it into a good drug. Why this is so hard for you to understand i don't know.[/QUOTE] it's because you both are arguing two different arguments. Ganerumo is right. It's good to have a slo mo chem but Ruhroh is also right, that slomo chem canonically shouldn't be jet. But I believe the original writers of FO are ok with this, as they headed NV's writing and game and they didn't change jet back to what it was- a shitty addictive chem. They sorta just kept it the same as it was in 3. So I guess they weren't as anal about it. v:v:v